Experiences of Wahoo ELEMNT Bolt vs Garmin 520?

Macy0161

I'd definitely be interested in the review too doozerie. I'm pretty much set on the bolt, as a lot of reviews say battery life much better than the 520 when navigating, and navigation is pretty much the only reason I can really justify either option!

CramCycle

I'm just gutted I missed the sub 200 price tag a few weeks ago now.

...And Dumber

CramCycle wrote: »

Anyone? Say I wanted to put in a note that when I get to a certain point on the map it would tell me to get ready for a hill climb or tell me to get into a certain gear. Notes I would have prepared myself.

Going to buy one or the other this week and am still no closer to deciding based on the commentary here.

Also all the talk of the app on the phone for configuring, what does it use? Bluetooth? can I configure through my PC?

Qualification: My experience is with the Elemnt, not the Bolt, but my understanding is they work the same way, just different bodies

You can't add cues or POIs that you can read on the Wahoo. You can, for example, create a route in RideWithGPS with exactly what you describe, but the Wahoo device does not show them. You can, however, see them if you use the (Ridewith GPS) app.
EDIT: You can add cues that will be read by the Wahoo.

Configuration is only through (the very well designed app). There may be a workaround somewhere on the Net, but it will just be a workaround.

Plastik wrote: »

*Just looking on RidewithGPS and you can manually add Cues to your route so I would assume these would show up on the Wahoo when it's following the route, but will confirm later.

See above. You can do this with RidewithGPS, but Wahoo do not currently support the display of POIs. The info is still available if you use the Ridewith GPS App.
Edit: You *can* add cues, not POIs

doozerie wrote: »

with Wahoo you can only download route files to the device from either of RWGPS or Komoot so you'll need to be happy using one or other of those two services. Both approaches have their merits of course, but it's one of the things to consider.

Sorry! But this is not true! You can download just about any gpx file to the app and from there to the device.

The RideWith GPS and Komoot allow turn-by-turn- directions, but any other (valid) gpx file will show as a breadcrumb trail that is easy to follow. (Komoot requires payment for the maps and RideWith GPS requires a subscription for Turn-by-Turn).


The only limit (I've come across) is with very long distances. Some files include POI information or other types of cues..... but these will not be visible on the device.

If you want to do this, go to the Routes page on your app, press the blue + sign in the bottom corner, select import file and follow the instructions.

This allows you to design a route on your pc, for example, send it to your phone, from your phone memory to the app and from the app to the device! Sounds complicated, but it's really not :-)

Just one thing, to import a gps file into the app that is in your phone, eg email attachment, you will need a data or wifi connection to process that file. So it's a good idea if you ever think you'll need a route to import it into the app straight away.

This is my understanding of things as they are now. I'd suggest anyone contact Wahoo directly with specific questions. They are quite good for responding and answering questions, and seem to be continuously developing their features.

I find it a great piece of kit. It's reliable. Great battery life.

@Cramcyle; Based on your lack of phone and desire for cue notes it looks like this is not the device for you.

Plastik

...And Dumber wrote: »

See above. You can do this with RidewithGPS, but Wahoo do not currently support the display of POIs. The info is still available if you use the Ridewith GPS App.

The RideWith GPS and Komoot allow turn-by-turn- directions, but any other (valid) gpx file will show as a breadcrumb trail that is easy to follow. (Komoot requires payment for the maps and RideWith GPS requires a subscription for Turn-by-Turn).

I added both a POI and a Cue to my commute home via RWGPS (free account). The POI didn't show, the Cue read perfectly - so adding Cues can be done.

Re turn-by-turn being subscription only on RWGPS, what does this mean? If I create a route in my free RWGPS account, all of the "Cues" that appear on the left of the screen, appear on my Wahoo as they're written on RWGPS, as I'm approaching them i.e. Turn left onto N11. - as in the pic below

Sinbad_NI

"Take me to" feature on the bolt has been really handy while I've been on holiday.

Never used it round home but it's been a godsend to navigate in the unknown.

...And Dumber

Plastik wrote: »

I added both a POI and a Cue to my commute home via RWGPS (free account). The POI didn't show, the Cue read perfectly - so adding Cues can be done.

Re turn-by-turn being subscription only on RWGPS, what does this mean? If I create a route in my free RWGPS account, all of the "Cues" that appear on the left of the screen, appear on my Wahoo as they're written on RWGPS, as I'm approaching them i.e. Turn left onto N11. - as in the pic below

My apologies.

You're 100% correct.

I've updated my original post.

And thanks! ;-) You've helped me sort something that's been bugging me for a while ;-)

doozerie

If you want a fairly detailed comparison of the Bolt versus the Garmin 520, plus a lot of useful and informed discussion in the comments sections, take a look at this DCRainmaker article: Best Bike Computer 2017: Garmin Edge 520 vs Wahoo ELEMNT Bolt

The following are some of my own impressions and opinions of the Bolt so far, after only a couple of weeks of using it. Obviously some of this stuff is subjective, and I’ve used the device only a handful of times so far, so I try to limit myself here to things I’ve actually used/tested/encountered and I try to clarify where my exposure to a feature is limited and therefore my take on it is even more subjective.

Pros of the Bolt
* The display is very clear (I’ve only used it with backlight permanently on so far), it’s much sharper than my Garmin 500 and from my memory of the Garmin 520 I think it’s clearer too. I’ve used it a couple of times indoors and once outdoors so far, and it was easy to read in all cases. If you have to squint to see your Garmin, like I’m having to do these days, that’s a big plus (even if you choose to display fewer fields on the Garmin and therefore each field is larger, the clarity of my Garmin 500 is still inferior to the Bolt, not sure how significant the difference is from the Garmin 520 as I’ve have to view them side by side).

* You can “zoom in/out” the display by pressing the up/down buttons on the side. When you zoom in it drops the bottom line/fields off the display and increases the size of the remaining fields to fill the screen. I could see this being handy when doing workouts outdoors (I use TrainerRoad indoors paired with a laptop or tablet so don’t need a Wahoo or Garmin for that), as the pain increases it might be useful to be able to make the main fields in the display easier to see. Of course, the way it works means you have to lay out the display so that the fields you’ll want to see all the time are all bunched towards the top. It seems like the max number of fields that Bolt can display at one time is 9 (the top-most field is always on a line by itself, the other fields are up to 2 per line), the minimum is 1.

* The LEDs along the top can be set to track your power, HR, or speed. I’ve only used it for power so far and 1 LED lit = power zone 1, 2 LEDs lit = power zone 2, etc., there are 7 LEDs. They change colour too per zone. I presume that if set to HR the LEDs reflect your HR zone in the very same way, I’ve no idea what they represent if set for speed. I think I’ll find it a useful way to quickly check what zone I’m in at a glance without having to read figures off the screen.

* The buttons are better placed. I didn’t like the buttons on the bottom edge of the Garmin 520, the button positions on the Bolt just seem more logical and convenient.

* Adding sensors is easy, you push the power on/off button once, select “Add Sensor” and work through it. The steps involved are easier to remember than the different routes you have to follow on my Garmin 500 for various sensors. I’ve only added two sensors so far (power meter, HRM strap), but it was quick and reliable. I can’t compare this to the Garmin 520, I gather that it’s pretty reliable too but my perspective on Garmin’s is skewed by the occasional hassles I have with my Garmin 500.

* So far the Bolt has successfully and quickly calibrated my power meter (pedals) each time I’ve tried. I’ve not used a Garmin 520 for that so can’t compare there, but my Garmin 500 is temperamental when it comes to calibration and sometimes sits there without ever completing calibration. The Garmin 520 and the 500 are different generation devices though, of course, so just because the 500 is a bugger in that respect doesn’t mean the 520 is.

* It comes with maps installed for Europe, North America. Oceania, and South America. They consume 2GB.

* I’ve yet to try it but apparently if you load a workout onto the Bolt you can skip or pause/postpone the intervals defined within it. So if your workout has, say, a 10 minute warmup interval followed by a 5 minute climbing interval, then if you are outdoors and your climb is a 20 minute ride away, you can delay the climbing interval and start it when you actually get to the climb. If it works in the way I’ve read I think this will be extremely useful when doing structured workouts outdoors.

* After a workout the Bolt presents quite a lot of interesting info on the unit itself. As examples, it displays TSS, NP, IF, L/R average power (if you’ve enabled that), a very vague graph of portions spent in your various power zones (no figures, just relative bar lines), max power figures for various durations of time, etc. It’s just a subset of the information you’d hope to get from wherever you upload your workout file to, but having it right there on the Bolt can be useful at times too.


Cons of the Bolt
* As mentioned in a previous post, you can’t use its files on Garmin Connect. They will successfully upload and you can see the summary info in your activities on the website, but click on an activity to view the details and it generates an error. The issue seems to be that Garmin’s website doesn’t handle the newer variant of FIT files that the Bolt generates. Whether this is a problem for a Bolt user obviously depends on whether you are wedded to Garmin Connect. In my case I’ve relied on that website for years, not just to analyse my workouts but also to record the mileage I’ve accrued on various bits of “gear” (it allows you to define pretty much any kind of gear, I use: bikes, groupsets, wheels, shoes, etc.) - I can transfer all of my workouts to another site to get the analysis there, but I’ll obviously lose the tracking of the gear from historical workouts since they are not stored within the workout, which is a pain. I’ll also lose the description info I recorded in Garmin Connect for each activity, of course.

I now need to find an alternative service/software to provide both the analysis (essential) and the gear tracking (useful). I was prepared for this since I’d read about the incompatibility with Garmin Connect before buying the Bolt, but while I thought I was okay with that, now that I’m actually at the point of needing to find an alternative it’s more inconvenient than I assumed it would be. Annoyingly, Strava doesn’t seem to handle dual-sided power meters (it reports the overall power figures but not the split and it’s for that split that I bought a dual-sided power meter in the first place) and doesn’t track anything other than bikes or running shoes so I can’t just rely entirely on Strava. I’ve taken a quick look at TrainingPeaks.com and I like the way it lays out activiities but it won’t give me the analysis I want (and that Garmin Connect gives) without a premium account and the hassle of keeping track of yet another subscription is a deterrent for me at the moment so that’s down my list of options for now.

I’m going to work through GoldenCheetah to see if that’ll work for me, it provides *a lot* of data analysis and I’ll need to put some effort into understanding how to use it in order to benefit from what it certainly has to offer.

* Reliance on your phone. There are few things (like layout of fields displayed) that you canchange without a phone. Using the phone is certainly more convenient than going through multiple menus as you have to do on Garmins (in particular you can enable. drag, and drop fields into different positions with the Bolt phone app very quickly, whereas changing the ordering of fields on a Garmin display potentially requires redefining every field since fields are static and can’t be shuffled around), but I’d prefer to have the option of both. Yes, that’s me wanting to have my cake and eat it, but these devices are a significant investment and I don’t see why they (both brands) should feel fine with tying customers to just one option here.

* It doesn’t have bike profiles, so you have the same set of pages for all bikes, not a dedicated page(s) per bike. Perhaps over time this won’t bother me so much but initially I find it a hassle because I’m used to swapping my Garmin 500 between bikes and selecting the profile for that bike as a quick and easy (albeit with multiple menu selections) way to get the display info I’ve tailored for that bike.

I’ve not played around properly yet with the various page options on the Bolt. For example, you can add a custom page but I don’t know yet how many custom pages you can create. There is a “Page” button which allows you to switch between your current page and the climbing page (that’s a default page enabled on the Bolt, I don’t see the appeal in this yet) and the navigation page, I’m assuming that if you add custom page(s) it/they become extra pages you can switch to but that’s just a guess.

There is also a “Lap Page”, which the Bolt switches to when you press the “Lap” button. Unfortunately I discovered that when doing an FTP test. I had the default page set up to display the info I wanted, but when pressed the Lap button at the start of my 20min FTP test, the Bolt switched to the (default) Lap page which had very little of the info I wanted for the next 20mins. Cue some swearing. Turns out I could have pressed the Page button and worked back to my default page but mid-FTP test is not a good time for clear and logical thinking, it’s a time for suffering and swearing and I have to assume that Wahoo’s ears were well and truly red by the time I ran out of oxygen and had to fall back on just casting filthy looks at the Bolt.

* If you select your Power Zone as a display field, it only displays an integer. So if you are just barely into zone 3 it shows “3” and if you are on the verge of dipping into zone 4 it shows “3”. This is annoying, the Garmins show the zone to one decimal place which I prefer. This also means that if you have the LEDs on the Bolt tracking your power output then you gain no more information by displaying the “Power Zone” field.

* If you already have Garmin mounts they may not work with the Bolt. I say “may not” because I’ve read and heard of people using the Garmin stem mounts with the Bolt, you need to rotate it 90 degrees and if you can make the Bolt fit into the slot apparently it will lock securely - I’ve tried this though and my Bolt simply wouldn’t fit in the slot of a Garmin 500 stem mount. I’ve read some accounts of people using the Garmin mount unmodified, I’ve read other accounts of people having cut away the edges of the mount slot a little. I’d be hesitant about widening the Garmin slot personally, get that wrong and your Bolt could dislodge itself and pop out in use would be my concern - but it clearly works for some people.

* It has some bugs relating to my power meter (Favero Assioma Duo pedals). At the end of a session it displays the incorrect average power in the session summary details - Normalised Power figure is correct but not “average power”, but when you upload the file and look at the details of the session online you can see the correct figure there. It’s a known issue, I’ve found several discussions of it online, and while it’s not a big deal for me it is a reminder that the firmware does indeed have bugs.

Another issue is that it doesn’t provide a means (that I can find) of defining my crank length for these power meter(s) within either the Bolt itself or the app - even my Garmin 500 provides this, which is either very impressive given the relative old age of the 500 or else very damning of the Bolt that such a recent generation device doesn’t provide it. I can set the crank length within the Assioma app but that’s not recommended as the head unit can/will override that setting with its own value and the typical default value is 172.5mm (my cranks are 170mm) - basically, I don’t know whether the Bolt is applying its own (incorrect for me) crank length figure by and giving me false readings as a result, which is at best annoying and at worst a nasty bug. I’ve read that this feature exists for Powertap P1 pedals, but that it’s only available via Bluetooth and not ANT+, so I may try a few more approaches to this yet, if it’s there then they certainly don’t make it easy to find though.

* The phone app has crashed on me once so far, when looking through the map settings. Clearly it’s not bug free, but at least it restarted itself quickly. No crash of the Bolt itself as yet.


Things I haven’t tested/played around with at all yet:

* Battery life.

* Navigation. I’ve read that while you can select a destination on your phone and it’ll prod the Bolt into navigating you there (definitely something I’d consider useful), it’s not very good at picking the best route to get there so can route you along a longer and/or less bike-friendly route. You’d assume that is something they could sort out with a firmware update, but I imagine that’ll only happen if they see value to themselves in doing so.

* Getting workouts onto the Bolt. I gather you can only do this via TrainingPeaks.com. I’ve come across various discussions about this online with people expressing concern that while you can use a free TrainingPeaks account for this today, perhaps that will change over time. I did see one post where someone pasted a reply from Wahoo themselves stating that they’ll never require you to have a premium TrainingPeaks account (costs about $120 per annum) in order to load workouts onto the Bolt, but who knows to be honest. Personally I’d be much happier if you could load workouts from multiple sources (e.g. TrainerRoad).

Alek

* Battery life.

From my own tests, approx. 12h non-stop recording in 0C average and with Bluetooth enabled for live tracking, brought it from 99% to 43%. Backlight and LEDs were off. Tried 3 times in similar temperatures this winter.

Nothing short of amazing when compared to the Edge 800 I've migrated from.

doozerie

On the battery life, my Bolt came with its battery at something like 16%, and I used it for 2 turbo sessions. That amounted to about 2.5 to 3 hours of use. Backlight was permanently on, the only sensor it was tracking was power meter, and for the most part my phone's bluetooth was off too so the Bolt can't have been using much/any power for its own Bluetooth. It tried hard to use GPS for one or both of the indoor sessions (I'd left it in its default "Outdoor" mode). By the end of that its battery was at something like 6%.

Having recharged it fully I then used it for a 1hr turbo session, and a 2hr outdoor sessions. Again backlight was permanently on, it was recording power meter, it was recording HRM too for the outdoor session, and of course it was using GPS for the outdoor session too. Bluetooth on phone was off for both. It was probably on for another hour or so, using Bluetooth while I mucked about with settings and the like. Its battery was on 52% afterwards, lower than I would have expected but its clearly far too soon to get a feel for what battery life will be like longer term.

One thing that could be reasonably deemed a con of the Bolt is that it has only 3 settings for the backlight - off/on/5sec. I'm not sure about the Garmin 520 but certainly the Garmin 500 lets you choose from several other options for how long the screen stays on. I tend to set my Garmin 500 to either 15sec or 30sec depending on what I'm doing (longer for indoor/turbo sessions, shorter for outdoor sessions), the 5sec option on the Bolt is quite limiting.

Plastik

You can change the backlight timeout to whatever length you like in the app under Settings.

doozerie

Plastik wrote: »

You can change the backlight timeout to whatever length you like in the app under Settings.

Ah, thank you!

Macy0161

Alek wrote: »

From my own tests, approx. 12h non-stop recording in 0C average and with Bluetooth enabled for live tracking, brought it from 99% to 43%. Backlight and LEDs were off. Tried 3 times in similar temperatures this winter.

Was that with navigation too?

Alek

Was that with navigation too?

Yes, following a route.

Macy0161

I see that Garmin have just launched the 520plus. Thought it might be a runner but the claimed battery life is only the same as the 520.

CramCycle

After I started posting on this thread, my Edge 500 suddenly stopped working after alot of years of faithful service (at least 7 I think).

I bit the bullet and bought the bolt. The differences were to minute to make a call so I just went with the least buggy according to reports.

Screen is really clear, must try it without the backlight but far easier to read than the edge (age is catching me too). Phone app seems easy although the constant pushing of tips everytime you open it is annoying.

Haven't messed around fully yet but so far I am happy.

Macy0161

Pulled the trigger on the Bolt this morning.

I was reluctant to move away from Garmin, as like doozerie, I do use connect as my main place for all things exercise (although no power meter so all that stuff doesn't apply yet). I do currently subscribe to Training Peaks though, and with dropbox uploads and at least the cycling workouts being visible was enough. And TrainerRoad seem to be moving towards a more overarching recording system, but I'm not quite all about the bike.

Since pretty much making up my mind, I've also been messing with Ride With GPS - it's way ahead of connect for mapping in my view, so syncing with that should be no issue.

My main issue with looking at the 520 (which doesn't appear to be addressed with the 520plus, going on the Rainmaker hands on/ reply to comments) is battery life when navigating. If I already had one, I'd look at external batteries, but buying brand new and having to think about it? No thanks.

doozerie

Just out of curiosity I uploaded some Wahoo Elemnt Bolt files to Garmin Connect again just now and the site now displays their contents, so presumably Garmin have updated their code.

Unfortunately, while most of the usual data fields are displayed, the activities don't display the power balance figures at all - these fields do display when I upload files from my Garmin 500 so I assume that Garmin Connect either still doesn't fully support the FIT file format the Bolt produces, or Garmin have decided to ignore selected data fields from non-Garmin devices, or something.

On the plus side though, I can now continue to track the mileage I'm clocking up on bikes, groupsets, wheels, etc., on Garmin Connect as I have been doing for a few years now. So "partial" Garmin Connect support might mean less of an impediment to those who are invested in Garmin's site but considering buying a Wahoo device.

doozerie

Curiously, the activities for my Bolt (outdoor) rides from a few days ago contain some extra tabs in Garmin Connect including one called "Time in Zones" (shows both heart rate and power zones). My TrainerRoad session from this morning doesn't include that tab at all.

I assumed that Garmin Connect itself derived the bar charts for time spent in the various zones, but this suggests to me that it's the Bolt itself that is doing so and storing the data in the FIT file. That data is there for Bolt files I uploaded weeks back too, but not there for Garmin 500 files I previously uploaded. Perhaps the latest generation of Garmin devices like the 520 produce that data too, but if not it's another positive feature in favour of Wahoo devices (assuming you value such data).

Macy0161

First proper run with the Bolt on the Orwell Randonee. Really liked the fields being adjustable size wise on the move, and ended up using the climbing page a bit to try and judge efforts. Had the navigation on, no issues with battery, and that aspect worked really well I feel - i'd be happy to follow it on an unmarshalled solo spin anyway.

Had the Garmin watch going at the same time. With the same user data, the bolt gave a way bigger calorie burn. I did a short spin on Friday, and it was the other way around with Wahoo less than Garmin, so I think the algorithm's are just totally different. While I'd like to eat (and probably did) to the wahoo calculation, I'm going to do a bit more research on that as to do like to keep track of that - for probably worse I still track calories in v calories out (still nervous of undoing the 5 year weight loss project!).

When syncing both the Garmin watch and the Bolt, Strava recognised it already had the ride, where as Training Peaks didn't i.e. Strava only uploaded the bolt, where as I had to go in and delete one from Training Peaks. Bolt doesn't sync to Myfitnesspal either.

I did a couple of mountain bike spins over the weekend too, but haven't tested it there yet. The stem mount doesn't fit on the stem of my mtb - I have put it on the bars but wanted to wait on the silicone case I've ordered before chancing it given my off road skill level! I've also order the cycliq duo mount, but I don't think the aero mount will work reversed, but will try that before looking at mtb mounts. It does fit in my SRAM (knock off) garmin mtb mount I have, but unless theres a landscape setting I've missed in the bolt....

CramCycle

Have it for a few runs now, still very happy. Quicker to pick up GPS and cadence than the Edge. I have my work and home wifi set up on it so everything gets uploaded automatically. This said I only really use Strava so can't comment on other apps.

The maps are very well done and I like being able to zoom out to get an idea how far away from a point you might know, you are.

The only downside, and someone here mentioned it already, and there maybe a fix. The map always angled North is a bit weird. It is not the hardest thing to get over but psychologically, I like having the map orientated to where I am pointed, although I know people who prefer it this way, so maybe nothing.

Paul_Mc1988

CramCycle wrote:

The only downside, and someone here mentioned it already, and there maybe a fix. The map always angled North is a bit weird. It is not the hardest thing to get over but psychologically, I like having the map orientated to where I am pointed, although I know people who prefer it this way, so maybe nothing.

Cram just turn of the "always point north" setting when you have the wahoo connected to the phone.

The Ging and I

Whats the most preferred , element or bolt ?

CramCycle

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

Cram just turn of the "always point north" setting when you have the wahoo connected to the phone.

Works perfectly

Macy0161

The Ging and I wrote: »

Whats the most preferred , element or bolt ?

As far as my research suggested, the software and function is the same, it's the form factor/ size which is different.

brownian

Discovered a user issue the other day (naturally, at a bad time) - don't have more than one komoot account...because you're sure to plan your route on the first account, but synch the second one to your wahoo. This happened to me, because I logged in sometimes using facebook, and sometimes using my email address. Silly me.

Always check the night before, that you have the route on the physical device. Once it's there, it works really well. But if it's not, it's worth sorting out before you're on your bike, outside, under time pressure.

Macy0161

Loving the bolt in general so far, but have an irritation/ concern over the USB flap. It keeps working loose - only been dry weather so far, but I'm a little concerned over the units longevity due to that.

Luxman

I discovered a problem over the last couple of spins with the bolt. I have it mounted on the aero mount and today thought I could hear a rattle, since the saddle bag is full of bits that are not 'squashed' in to stop the moving around on rough roads, I thought the rattle originated here. However curiosity got the better of me and when I got home I did some checking and noticed the bolt does move when mounted. A quick google did highlight it as a problem for others too. The plastic mount appears to wear away from the twisting action creating the gap.

The alternative mount (K edge) which is metal is shockingly expensive.:-(

CramCycle

Not the same issue but the only issue I have found, and it isminor, is that it doesn't seem to slip into the mount as easily as my edge. It can sometimes be a bit fiddly. Very minor issue. A bit ****ty about the mount wearing away. I have a guy in work who does 3D printing so I might ask him how much it would be too knock up a few.

Luxman

I did and still do have to fiddle with setting the bolt on the mount, its the not exactly 90 degree turn that it starts at, throws me.

MicktheMan

CramCycle wrote: »

I have a guy in work who does 3D printing so I might ask him how much it would be too knock up a few.

I'd be interested in 1 or 2 as well if possible.