Rotavating soil and roll out turf

thehamo

Hi folks

I'd appreciate some help here. Decided to take up the grass in the back as it's full of all kinds of moss and weeds not to mention the ground just so unlevel its rediculous.

I've taken up the sod but there are small bits of grass left. Can these just be killed off and rotavated in or do they need to be taken up? The garden is about 140 sqm So it a not a job I fancy doing.

Secondly, I'm opting for roll out turf. So my plan is to rotavate the whole garden and level it off. We have extremely clayish soil so I'm going to buy in a couple of tonnes of sand soil to put over the existing before laying the lawn.

Does anyone have any hints or pointers that I might need to take in to consideration? The soil is quite compacted at the no so I'm going to fork it over before rotavating.

Many thanks

Mark.

Lumen

Don't add sand to clay soil, add organic matter.

Don't worry about bits of grass, you want grass anyway.

If you have drainage issues, sort them out now.

thehamo

Thanks. So if i get a load of compost and rotavate it in with the soil?

Lumen

You haven't mentioned any particular drainage issues except for a bit of moss so I wouldn't go overboard.

Since you're not going back to this after the lawn is laid (unlike a bed) you might choose stuff that will break down very slowly, so maybe well browned wood mulch and peat moss rather than compost.

Mixed opinions on using peat moss in clay soil but the landscaper I used last year used it in moderation for an area of new lawn and the results were good.

Defunkd

@thehamo: i'm doing my own lawn after the builders made a mess of it and i'm going with a mix of sand and topsoil too. I have heavy clay but i'm not adding any moss peat since clay has enough nutrients for lawn. I'm not rotovating either, just levelling any major humps/hollows. Then i'll add the sand, level, add soil and level it. Then sow and light roll.

looksee

The whole 'should you add sand to clay soil' seems to have very mixed views. It looks as though the answer is probably that you need to add an unreasonably huge amount of sand to have a positive effect, otherwise you are just either wasting your time or causing more issues. This article seems to have the most reasoned reply https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=620

Lumen

looksee wrote: »

The whole 'should you add sand to clay soil' seems to have very mixed views. It looks as though the answer is probably that you need to add an unreasonably huge amount of sand to have a positive effect, otherwise you are just either wasting your time or causing more issues. This article seems to have the most reasoned reply https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=620

I think lawn is a special case, because once the grass is growing you can't get back under it. So once the organic matter, gypsum, lime or whatever else is used up, you're back to square one. At least sand is stable (as is peat moss, allegedly).

I remember reading that putting greens are constructed with a layer of sand under the grass, but presumably that's to keep it level more than anything, and putting greens require unreasonable maintenance.

The problem with adding "an unreasonably huge amount" of sand or grit is that at some point you're going from a huge amount to none (the boundary), and so you're more likely to get compaction at that boundary, and roots hate boundaries (although grass roots are shallow so it may not matter). But once you put sand in, there's no way to get it out again.

The limitation on adding organic matter is that there's no point going too deep, as once the soil goes anaerobic the stuff it just going to sit there putrefying or whatever. How deep does oxygen penetrate in clay soil? A few centimetres?

thehamo

Thanks folks for the replies.

As for rotavating would i be mad to try in this weather?

Defunkd

looksee wrote: »

The whole 'should you add sand to clay soil' seems to have very mixed views. It looks as though the answer is probably that you need to add an unreasonably huge amount of sand to have a positive effect, otherwise you are just either wasting your time or causing more issues. This article seems to have the most reasoned reply https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=620

I'm adding it to level the lawn after a track machine mangled it...i'm not trying to change it from clay to loam or improve drainage. The soil i have is the soil i have. Adding sand isn't to turn the lawn into a more workable veg patch. It's gonna be lawn and nothing more. Same as thehamo.

Defunkd

thehamo wrote: »

Thanks folks for the replies.

As for rotavating would i be mad to try in this weather?

I'm waiting for dry weather anyway. Won't be this week by all accounts.

thehamo

I know. Nightmare. I'm just looking at the soil gettimg wetter and wetter and wondering will it ever dry. That said, the puddles that so form disappear quite quickly so drainage isnt a huge issue by the looks of things. Just extremely damp soil

rje66

thehamo wrote: »

Thanks folks for the replies.

As for rotavating would i be mad to try in this weather?

Absolutely.
Wait till its drier. Even if you get to get the machine through the ground your foot prints etc will make raking level difficult or impossible. But if you do roto. send in a pic.

flogen

Sorry to hijack this - my query is in the same ballpark so thought it best to post here rather than starting a new thread.

I'm re-doing my garden at the minute, which involves lifting a load of old pavers and replacing some with new slabs and some with grass.

The ground underneath the old pavers is extremely sandy - I presume it's what the previous owners put down before paving - so I'm trying to figure out whether I need topsoil (or something else) to ensure the roll-out grass I get will knit & grow. What should I be looking to get and how deep should go on top of what's there to give the grass a good chance of survival?