Becoming a landlord reluctantly

evolving_doors

Usually I tell bord gais to get lost when they cold call with deals. But last time I got a boiler service which included a years free call out/ breakdown and parts insurance for about €135!

Also if you do the maths you could lease to the council for 10 years and never have to deal with anything. The downfall is that rent is about 80% of daft.ie comparable (I've heard you can negotiate more if they're keen!). If there is a downturn in the economy or nobody living there you'll still get your agreed monthly rent. Not for everyone but thought I'd mention it.

As regards vetting yourself and not leaving it to an EA: we rented a place before and during the viewing all the prospective tenants spoke to the EA and the owner sat and the couch with their brother and said nothing. The EA didn't even introduce them as they kept the viewings very quick. Actually the EA were very good and had their own maintenance guy on call for any issues. Dunno how much % they charged the owner but I'd definitely consider them myself for the first year anyway! If I could afford it.

daithiK1

polydactyl wrote: »

So can anyone guide me to a simple “rules, to do list” for becoming a landlord post?. Hopefully moving in next 6m to new home and will be renting our apt. If we go with an agency (no time or inclination for managing it myself) will they guide us or do we ask the RTB etc???? Can’t sell as still minimally in neg equity so reluctantly becoming a landlord and ideally as hassle free as possible

Get a tenant that is capable of providing references that indicate that they are capable of repaying any potential significant damages back over a reasonable short time frame, ensure you adequately vet these references. Take a hit on the rent if necessary to ensure this.

The_Conductor

Have you considered approaching the mortgage holder- and simply crystalising the loss.
Many lenders are doing deals with landlords recently- its even got a nickname- borrowed from the States - 'Jingle Mail' (that is- you hand the property back to the bank and walk away from it).

Seriously- if you have not already explored this option you should do so.

Edit: I would strongly advise you *not* become a landlord unless you have explored every other possible option.
What happens if you get a tenant in- who decides that paying the rent is optional (there are a couple of thousand of them annually- including some who you'd never imagine fit your picture of a delinquint tenant- one case at the moment is a solicitor in Galway- who is renting a unit with her brother- and they haven't paid rent in 2 years- all the while they're playing the system like a fine fiddle).

The system is setup to protect tenants at all costs- regardless of whether or not they pay the rent- and despite RTB claims to the contrary- while they may have an initial hearing within 6 weeks- it can and does go on for 2 years and more- before a landlord gets their property back- and you have to hope and pray that the tenant hasn't destroyed it......

Vis-a-vis cost of letting a unit- personally I think 200 a month, on average- is more than it'll cost to maintain a unit- but its not far off ballpark. I've siblings who have spent this and more- some of which was foreseeable, some of which was out of the blue (burst pipes and indeed- wholly airlocked water systems- are pretty normal this winter).

Honestly- you do not want to become a landlord if you can avoid it in any manner possible. Try to hand the property back to the lender- if at all possible- if not possible- property prices for apartments in Dublin are still rising- just leave it vacant- rather than allow a tenant access to it- and sell it in 3-4-5 months time- when it'll probably be 4-5% higher in value than it is today.

You may get lucky and have a lovely tenant- but even if you do- its then their home- and good luck even trying to sell it in future, regardless of whether its in positive or negative equity. The system is setup to view you as some sort of vampire- you do not want to become a landlord if you can find any manner of avoiding it- seriously, don't go there, just don't.

jimmycrackcorm

Op, as this is a first time rental then make sure to charge the maximum you can as its going to be your only opportunity given the government interference in the market.

polydactyl

Wow The Conductor that’s a seriously negative post. I don’t understand even with crap tenants how you couldn’t sell it if it’s your property.

ross2010

I am an accidental landlord. If your apt is city center and as you say in good condition you could do a corporate let. They would need it furnished but you could, with proper vetting of prospective tenants, get a great tenant with low wear and tear on a prop. My SIL has a tiny 2 bed near portobello and recently let it to a CEO just moved to dublin. Someone else i know finds it hard to get good professionals to relocate her as apt supply so low.

CollyFlower

Air b@b, is that an option? Or 'rent a room'? Rent a room is tax free up to 14, 000, a year. With rent a room you OR your partner have to be living there, it has to be your primary residence.

An Ri rua

californiabear wrote:

From experience, there is one major piece of advice that comes to mind...choose the tenants yourself. Having spoken to a number of landlords, using an agent was a total no-no for me. I personally met and vetted the tenants and checked into references thoroughly. Don’t be apologetic about doing this, they could end up costing you a LOT of money if they trash the place or stop paying rent.

Hear hear.

Choose the tenants yourself. Look out for someone who is making a real effort in life but on small money. Be upfront with them and cut them a deal for slightly less rent (on time, PRTB etc and you let them treat it as home. ie infrequent inspections, no snooping, hands off unless they call you. But find a mature low paid home-loving professional type. I have such an arrangement for years now.

Find yourself that great tenant. Don't think that a high price means they'll respect it. There's no correlation!!

rossmores

listen back to Sean o Rourke on wed this weeks show a labour bill by Jan O Sullivan going through the house and get this your the one they want to kill off its a must listen she states clearly we dont want accidental landlords
one of many if its pasted you put a tenant in your property you cant get vacant possession if you want to sell it
Our legislators are going to continue to erode your right of ownership over security of tenure whether they pay rent or not.

rossmores

Below a link to the bill its only in its first stage
https://beta.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/35/

GGTrek

rossmores wrote: »

Below a link to the bill its only in its first stage
https://beta.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/35/

Scary. The government has not opposed the introduction of this bill which coul be called "expropriation bill":
- indefinite tenure
- no more termination for sale of property
- rent control for the whole state
- making it incredibly difficult to make any renovation
- public rent register
A communist wet dream (I mean the TD proposing this is clearly of this tendency for its own political gain whatever the cost to property owners). There are also calls from the usual communists to ban all evictions for 3 years (I am sure a renewable period). The worst is that the govvie has not opposed such bill: my main worry is what the govvie is cooking behind closed doors: instead of focusing on building or on letting build they are focusing on meddling with very serious long term consequences. This bill if approved would kill the private residential tenancies market.

Graces7

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A washing machine should last longer than 18 months. Unless it is of the lowest quality and run around the clock it should last a few years.

Bingo! Maybe 2 years. Then the landlord gets mad.

Graces7

GGTrek wrote: »

Scary. The government has not opposed the introduction of this bill which coul be called "expropriation bill":
- indefinite tenure
- no more termination for sale of property
- rent control for the whole state
- making it incredibly difficult to make any renovation
- public rent register
A communist wet dream (I mean the TD proposing this is clearly of this tendency for its own political gain whatever the cost to property owners). There are also calls from the usual communists to ban all evictions for 3 years (I am sure a renewable period). The worst is that the govvie has not opposed such bill: my main worry is what the govvie is cooking behind closed doors: instead of focusing on building or on letting build they are focusing on meddling with very serious long term consequences. This bill if approved would kill the private residential tenancies market.

Sounds fairer to tenants than now. About time too. We are not there for the lls convenience...to be ousted so easily

The Student

Graces7 wrote: »

Sounds fairer to tenants than now. About time too. We are not there for the lls convenience...to be ousted so easily

What about a landlord who needs the property for a family member and gives the necessary notice completes the statutory declaration and all is above board.

Do you agree that the tenant should move out.

GGTrek

The Student wrote: »

Graces7 wrote: »

Sounds fairer to tenants than now. About time too. We are not there for the lls convenience...to be ousted so easily

What about a landlord who needs the property for a family member and gives the necessary notice completes the statutory declaration and all is above board.

Do you agree that the tenant should move out.

The proposal restricts this case as well to just spouse and child. Parents, siblings and nephews excluded. Of course no attempt is made to speed up eviction of delinquent tenants. As I said a communist and paternalistic wet dream. The worst in my opinion is the indefinite tenancy combined with rent controls (which then are inherited!) because it effectively means a de facto expropriation.

Graces7

The Student wrote: »

What about a landlord who needs the property for a family member and gives the necessary notice completes the statutory declaration and all is above board.

Do you agree that the tenant should move out.

There are grey areas. Maybe the landlords should take a longer term view before letting out his house? To be fairer to the tenant. Advise would- be tenants that the lease is a limited one?

I have had tenancies that were like this. Suddenly out of nowhere, told to leave for that reason.. Taking a fixed lease then being served notice to quit before that ended etc.
The impression I get is that we tenants are seen as a fill-in money maker. Rather than folk needing a settled home. Which is unfair.

Last place but one I rented the landlord needed to sell. I knew why. I left without holding him to the legal limit; did not ask paperwork etc. But he like many was an amateur landlord , seeking money rather than offering stability . That house is now for sale.

GGTrek

Forgot to say the other brutal do-gooder with other people's money proposal: maximum one month rent deposit which combined with the current system that protects at any cost delinquent tenants is really the nail in the coffin.
The TD has even got the cheek to say that she wants to take tenancy law in line with other unspecified "European" countries. The only other country in Europe with a totally communist tenancy law like the wet dream of the labour TD is Sweden. Guess what: Sweden has no private landlords and a massive scarcity of rental accommodation (worse than Ireland).

4ensic15

GGTrek wrote: »

Forgot to say the other brutal do-gooder with other people's money proposal: maximum one month rent deposit which combined with the current system that protects at any cost delinquent tenants is really the nail in the coffin.
The TD has even got the cheek to say that she wants to take tenancy law in line with other unspecified "European" countries. The only other country in Europe with a totally communist tenancy law like the wet dream of the labour TD is Sweden. Guess what: Sweden has no private landlords and a massive scarcity of rental accommodation (worse than Ireland).

The 1 month deposit is easily got over. Quarterly rent up front. Notice of arrears if a quarters rent is not paid on the button.

Michael D Not Higgins

GGTrek wrote: »

The proposal restricts this case as well to just spouse and child. Parents, siblings and nephews excluded. Of course no attempt is made to speed up eviction of delinquent tenants. As I said a communist and paternalistic wet dream. The worst in my opinion is the indefinite tenancy combined with rent controls (which then are inherited!) because it effectively means a de facto expropriation.

This would be the main concern, it shifts the balance even further towards the tenant's favour but does absolutely nothing to help the landlord.

NuMarvel

The_Conductor wrote: »

Edit: I would strongly advise you *not* become a landlord unless you have explored every other possible option.

Speaking as a tenant, I can't agree enough with this comment. I find it hard enough to deal with a landlord who wants to be one (eg 2 weeks in the middle of winter to get the boiler fixed, 5 weeks to get the washing machine fixed!), and I can only imagine it could be worse with one who's reluctant or accidental.

Renting residential property is a business and it's a long term commitment, especially in this market. It also needs someone with a genuine customer focus, because at the end of the day, that's what tenants are; customers. I think you should be really sure you want to do it, or that you have no other options. Alternatives like corporate letting or Air BnB still mean being a business, but they at least offer more flexibility for you in terms of your commitment and responsibilities.

Other than that, all I can say is that I hope everything works out for you.

Samuel T. Cogley

NuMarvel wrote: »

Speaking as a tenant, I can't agree enough with this comment. I find it hard enough to deal with a landlord who wants to be one (eg 2 weeks in the middle of winter to get the boiler fixed, 5 weeks to get the washing machine fixed!), and I can only imagine it could be worse with one who's reluctant or accidental.

Renting residential property is a business and it's a long term commitment, especially in this market. It also needs someone with a genuine customer focus, because at the end of the day, that's what tenants are; customers. I think you should be really sure you want to do it, or that you have no other options. Alternatives like corporate letting or Air BnB still mean being a business, but they at least offer more flexibility for you in terms of your commitment and responsibilities.

Other than that, all I can say is that I hope everything works out for you.

Reluctant, accidental LL here and I pride myself on customer service to my tenants.

NuMarvel

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Reluctant, accidental LL here and I pride myself on customer service to my tenants.

If you promise to get a broken washing machine fixed in less than 5 weeks, then let me know next time you have a vacancy

Samuel T. Cogley

Graces7 wrote: »

There are grey areas. Maybe the landlords should take a longer term view before letting out his house? To be fairer to the tenant. Advise would- be tenants that the lease is a limited one?

I have had tenancies that were like this. Suddenly out of nowhere, told to leave for that reason.. Taking a fixed lease then being served notice to quit before that ended etc.
The impression I get is that we tenants are seen as a fill-in money maker. Rather than folk needing a settled home. Which is unfair.

Last place but one I rented the landlord needed to sell. I knew why. I left without holding him to the legal limit; did not ask paperwork etc. But he like many was an amateur landlord , seeking money rather than offering stability . That house is now for sale.

What's good for the goose...

If a tenant wants security of tenure then they need to agree a corasponding length of time they are willing to stay. It's all well and good saying renting is not for the LL's convienace but the tenants shouldn't have all the control. I'd be delighted with a fixed term tenancy of five or ten years to be available with NEITHER party allowed to break it.

Samuel T. Cogley

NuMarvel wrote: »

If you promise to get a broken washing machine fixed in less than 5 weeks, then let me know next time you have a vacancy

I was in rural France with practically no mobile signal and managed to get a Fridge/freezer there the next day. Delinquent landlords piss me off, it's not the tenants fault if the LL is struggling and keeping €500 in the client account is not that hard.

Not having a go at you - hearing of people waiting five weeks for a washing machine makes me genuinely angry.

beauf

Graces7 wrote: »

T...Last place but one I rented the landlord needed to sell. I knew why. I left without holding him to the legal limit; did not ask paperwork etc. But he like many was an amateur landlord , seeking money rather than offering stability . That house is now for sale....

The only LL not seeking money is the state.

Unfortunately for that concept is the state doesn't want to be a LL either.

The end result is (as with the house in your example) is its no longer in the rental market.

People seem to be unable to join the dots.

Samuel T. Cogley

The wife is absolutely against taking a hit on our place but even she commented last night that anymore interfereance, especially the inability to evict for sale, we're getting out of the game.

beauf

When a lot of places were vacant, I remember it was very common for tenants to break leases, to jump to a cheaper tent, and LL used to retain the deposit which may or may not covered the shortfall.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/deposits/

The Student

Graces7 wrote: »

There are grey areas. Maybe the landlords should take a longer term view before letting out his house? To be fairer to the tenant. Advise would- be tenants that the lease is a limited one?

I have had tenancies that were like this. Suddenly out of nowhere, told to leave for that reason.. Taking a fixed lease then being served notice to quit before that ended etc.
The impression I get is that we tenants are seen as a fill-in money maker. Rather than folk needing a settled home. Which is unfair.

Last place but one I rented the landlord needed to sell. I knew why. I left without holding him to the legal limit; did not ask paperwork etc. But he like many was an amateur landlord , seeking money rather than offering stability . That house is now for sale.

In some instances you are seen as "fill in" money but not always. Landlords might take a longer term view if the Govt stopped interfering in the sector. A property is a long term business venture but the constant changes the Govt is making not least the Anti Landlord stance they have adopted is one of the main reasons landlords are leaving the sector.

A very easy way to reduce the housing issue is to extend the rent a room scheme to landlords ie rent up to a certain limit no tax due, once you go over that limit you pay tax on all of the income.

This has the benefit of allowing tenants save for a deposit while renting. What people forget is that this is a significant "cash cow" for the Govt with the tax they are taking in.

beauf

Successive govt have made housing a vehicle for attracting investment.

They are not interested in housing or tenants or landlords.

The only reason they get involved with pointless interference is to gain votes from those who are fooled into thinking the govt is taking action. The reality is they are doing almost nothing about the crisis.

The Student

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Reluctant, accidental LL here and I pride myself on customer service to my tenants.

I am an intentional landlord but hold the same principles. I only have three rules 1 look after the property, 2 don't cause any grief for the neighbors and 3 pay your rent on time. I don't have any contact with the tenants unless they initiate it.

I will always fix a problem within a day if I can personally or within a week if I need a trades person (eg boiler replacement).

I tell my tenants that the property is my house but their home and once they follow my three rules we are all happy.

However if you break any of the rules that's when we have a problem.