Inter-union talk | Equal Pay for Equal Work $$$See warning in OP$$$

54and56

TheDriver wrote: »

Then you can make a difference. Go to your local branch meeting, talk to other teachers on the staff, get the view of those on the ground and become the person in the union who can make a change.
And welcome to the forum, its always good to have new teachers willing to contribute their views to this teacher's forum.

It's not a "Teachers Forum". It's a public forum about teaching. Big difference which some posters don't seem to have the capability of understanding........ including a Mod albeit posting in a non Mod capacity.

Red Alert

Realistically, if we are all going to have any impact, we'll have to strike together. TUI at higher-ed (where I am) won't be noticed by many, ASTI and TUI at 2nd level will get some notice, but INTO have the power to shut down the country.

The three teaching unions should also consider if forming a teaching union alliance and removing themselves from ICTU may be the way forward. ICTU, as far as I can see, is just promoting the status quo and don't want a confrontation with government.

ted1

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I have been paying my pension since I was 19. I had no choice. The later you leave starting your pension, the more expensive it will be.

you've been teaching since 19? how short was your degree?

TheDriver

ted1 wrote: »

you've been teaching since 19? how short was your degree?

Could be 3 year primary education and leaving cert done at 16

acequion

In any case,not starting pension payments until age 30 is lunacy. Whether public or private, it's clear that the earlier workers pay into their pension,the better. I would say no late than age 22.

Creol1

acequion wrote: »

In any case,not starting pension payments until age 30 is lunacy. Whether public or private, it's clear that the earlier workers pay into their pension,the better. I would say no late than age 22.

You should start paying into your pension as early as you can afford, but incredibly enough the pension companies themselves don't seem to be to interested in recruiting under-30s. Look at this link (https://www.irishlife.ie/pensions) for example: you click on the relevant age bracket and 20s isn't even an option!

judeboy101

Red Alert wrote: »

Realistically, if we are all going to have any impact, we'll have to strike together. TUI at higher-ed (where I am) won't be noticed by many, ASTI and TUI at 2nd level will get some notice, but INTO have the power to shut down the country.

The three teaching unions should also consider if forming a teaching union alliance and removing themselves from ICTU may be the way forward. ICTU, as far as I can see, is just promoting the status quo and don't want a confrontation with government.

INTO on strike for one week would bring Putin to his knees, that's how powerful their effect would be on the country. It would actually cause GNP to decrease.

TheDriver

The rate of sick leave in all jobs would skyrocket if primary strike. IBEC wouldn't be long pushing govt into solutions

byhookorbycrook

Yes, I started teaching at 19, having started school at 3 1/2 years.In those days the path to teaching was the 3 year B.Ed and I "got the call."

27061986a

Red Alert wrote: »

Realistically, if we are all going to have any impact, we'll have to strike together. TUI at higher-ed (where I am) won't be noticed by many, ASTI and TUI at 2nd level will get some notice, but INTO have the power to shut down the country.

The three teaching unions should also consider if forming a teaching union alliance and removing themselves from ICTU may be the way forward. ICTU, as far as I can see, is just promoting the status quo and don't want a confrontation with government.

SIPTU and IPOA all the way. There the two that get heard.

gaiscioch

rainbowtrout wrote: »

INTO won't go on strike. INTO never go on strike, no matter how bad it gets.

True, alas. Any time I go into Club na Múinteoirí on Parnell Square, which belongs to the INTO, up on the wall is a massive portrait of no less than Maud Gonne.

Would that her spirit could hurl the little streets of Ireland upon the great of Marlborough Street and Merrion Street. The INTO was not always this lily-livered. Back in 1946, for instance, INTO members invaded the pitch during the All-Ireland Final to bring attention to their plight; in that year they went on strike for no fewer than 7 months. Months. According to this, there's a 3-minute INTO film from 1946 somewhere entitled 'INTO Battle: An account of the 1946 teachers' strike, featuring scenes from mass meetings and signings'.

But, yeah, the majority of modern-day INTO and TUI members allowed themselves to be bought off, and ASTI members were hung out to dry. Once again. At this stage, ASTI members can justifiably feel dismissive at any whinging by members of the other two unions. Divide and conquer. One union. Now.

rainbowtrout

gaiscioch wrote: »

in that year they went on strike for no fewer than 7 months. Months.

:eek::eek::eek:


Out of interest does anyone know when the INTO last went on strike? I've been teaching 17 years and I'm pretty sure they haven't been on strike during that time.

I was in primary school for most of the 80s and into the early 90s and while I couldn't swear on it, I don't ever remember there being a strike for my 8 years. Couldn't honestly say for the years I was in secondary or college.

r93kaey5p2izun

All public sector unions took part in a national strike day in 2009. I'd say it's decades since INTO were on strike before that. I don't ever remember them being on strike in my life time. It would be interesting to know for sure though.

They have been on strike in Northern Ireland recently enough though.

r93kaey5p2izun

My mother suggests there was a united teacher strike over an unpaid pay award in 1985.

evolving_doors

Maybe because of the nature of employment contracts the into issues aren't as punative as in secondary. Like if you're covering for 1 teacher in primary you have a full day, whereas in secondary it might be just a couple of hours... If even.
That hours culture can trundle along for years in secondary (and all the scrambling that congress with it) whereas a full years work becomes a bit more obtainable in primary.

judeboy101

evolving_doors wrote: »

Maybe because of the nature of employment contracts the into issues aren't as punative as in secondary. Like if you're covering for 1 teacher in primary you have a full day, whereas in secondary it might be just a couple of hours... If even.
That hours culture can trundle along for years in secondary (and all the scrambling that congress with it) whereas a full years work becomes a bit more obtainable in primary.

I see it that alot of INTO principals are hurting due to allowances taken from their pay, unlike their secondary counterparts who locked out their teachers at the behest of the jmb.

killbillvol2

The last time the INTO went on strike was 1998 I think. There were rolling regional strikes over a hodge podge of issues. I don't remember any since. There were also strikes in 87 or 88 over class sizes and, as mentioned above, all three unions were out in 1985/86 over the non payment of an arbitration award. The 1985 strike included a rally in Croke Park attended by between 20-40,000 depending on which count you believe.

Creol1

Significant and (in my opinion) positive development: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/tui-may-face-hefty-financial-settlement-over-poaching-claims-1.3486220.

deiseindublin

Hope it's a really hefty fine, might detract from possibility of similar back stabbing next time round.

Sir123

It should be a hefty fine. I'm now more interested to see if these "talks" amount to anything for us LPTs.

They have been postponed until June which seems far from the mid May deadline that all three teacher unions set at convention.

Are we being conned again just to buy time? Does anyone high up in the union know what's going on because I sure don't.

deiseindublin

I don't know how an ultimatum with a deadline can be put back to June.

judeboy101

Creol1 wrote: »

Significant and (in my opinion) positive development: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/tui-may-face-hefty-financial-settlement-over-poaching-claims-1.3486220.

Pointless, assuming these ppl filled out an application for to join tui, the therefore lied on the form by stating they weren't in asti at the time. Tui should invalidate their membership and ban them from life.

r93kaey5p2izun

They claim they didn't lie as they cancelled ASTI membership then applied to TUI a month later.

evolving_doors

Johanna Wet Carpet wrote: »

They claim they didn't lie as they cancelled ASTI membership then applied to TUI a month later.

That's still switching sides during a dispute though whatever way you look at it. If the TUI want to appeal it then they are going to have to argue that switching sides during a dispute is no problemo.

r93kaey5p2izun

evolving_doors wrote: »

That's still switching sides during a dispute though whatever way you look at it. If the TUI want to appeal it then they are going to have to argue that switching sides during a dispute is no problemo.

I agree. I think they're in the wrong. But the declaration they signed was just to fill in the dates for any prior union membership (inc prior TUI membership) and they say they filled it accurately and after that it was up to TUI. In that case it's TUI in the wrong for accepting them. I know my branch rejected several of these switchers but obviously others didn't. I absolutely agree with a big fine for TUI in that case.

However there are some who didn't declare past membership so TUI couldn't know otherwise. In those cases I think TUI should cancel membership and ban them.

Terri26

TUI should have noticed something when nearly a thousand new members joined. From what I recall on the online form it didn't ask if you were a former member but I'm not completely certain on that. In the ASTI we ask for two signatures from current members on the form.

r93kaey5p2izun

Absolutely TUI should have done more to preven this happening - I've no doubt they knew. I actually don't think 1000 new members is something to raise a red flag in and of itself though. There are plenty of non union teachers at any given time and it would only be expected that such people would join TUI if the government was going to penalise them for not doing so. I'm just surprised that the overall increase in new members wasn't much higher.

gavwaldo

Any news in what's going on in these new entrant talks between the unions and the government? Haven't heard a peep since they started to fanfare on Fri 27th April. Were expected to last two weeks.

Creol1

gavwaldo wrote: »

Any news in what's going on in these new entrant talks between the unions and the government? Haven't heard a peep since they started to fanfare on Fri 27th April. Were expected to last two weeks.

I certainly haven't any news. They started with great fanfare after the Fórsa Civil Service Conference, where there was a lot of pressure from delegates for more action and Tom Geraghty said that the union would be seeking to have the matter addressed and the scale fixed before the PSSA ended.

During his speech he made the comment that there was a perception that this issue only affected teachers -- well hardly surprising, that's because they're the ones actually doing something about it!

Geraghty and his ilk are fond of stressing that DPER have put the cost of pay equality at €200m as a means of dampening members' enthusiasm. Paying people costs money -- who would have thought? I hope there's a Nobel Prize for the economist who worked that out.

Anyway, I doubt very much the PSSA will last till 2021 or whenever; it's only eight months old and there are already serious cracks showing, not just in terms of the teachers' unions, but rumblings also in the INMO and I think even the Garda Supt and Chief Supt association.

evolving_doors

Creol1 wrote: »

I certainly haven't any news. They started with great fanfare after the Fórsa Civil Service Conference, where there was a lot of pressure from delegates for more action and Tom Geraghty said that the union would be seeking to have the matter addressed and the scale fixed before the PSSA ended.

During his speech he made the comment that there was a perception that this issue only affected teachers -- well hardly surprising, that's because they're the ones actually doing something about it!

Geraghty and his ilk are fond of stressing that DPER have put the cost of pay equality at €200m as a means of dampening members' enthusiasm. Paying people costs money -- who would have thought? I hope there's a Nobel Prize for the economist who worked that out.

Anyway, I doubt very much the PSSA will last till 2021 or whenever; it's only eight months old and there are already serious cracks showing, not just in terms of the teachers' unions, but rumblings also in the INMO and I think even the Garda Supt and Chief Supt association.

I'd hazard a guess that nurses and gardaí will get first dibs.