UFC 223 | IAQUINTA VS KHABIB | SAT. APR. 7, 2018

Ultimate Seduction

Rose - Submission

RebelSoul wrote: »

I think the criticism comes from how highly Khabib is regarded and the fact that Al Iaquinta is not a top ten guy. If it wasn't for the events that unfolded Raging Al would be a long way from a title shot. He did well to go the 5 rounds but he offered nothing.
People probably feel Khabib should have found a way to finish the fight.

His last 3 fights, Al, Barboza and Johnson all good strikers, and Khabib hasn't been wobbled, hes only taking 1 clean shot in his whole career and it didn't faze him. For a guy who's so vulnerable to strikers supposedly. I don't think he wanted to finish al, he was literally playing with him with that jab.

RebelSoul

Rose - Decision

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

His last 3 fights, Al, Barboza and Johnson all good strikers, and Khabib hasn't been wobbled, hes only taking 1 clean shot in his whole career and it didn't faze him. For a guy who's so vulnerable to strikers supposedly. I don't think he wanted to finish al, he was literally playing with him with that jab.

I thought you were talking about the Al fight specifically. I was explaining where I think the criticism is originating from.

Tazzimus

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

His last 3 fights, Al, Barboza and Johnson all good strikers, and Khabib hasn't been wobbled, hes only taking 1 clean shot in his whole career and it didn't faze him. For a guy who's so vulnerable to strikers supposedly. I don't think he wanted to finish al, he was literally playing with him with that jab.

Did you watch the Johnson fight?
He made him do the chicken dance with one punch, sadly didn't follow up with it and had his soul crushed then.

A GOOD striker with good TDD would absolutely murder him.
Out of Tony and Connor, I reckon Tony is the worse matchup, decent on the feet, decent on the ground to nullify somewhat the smothering wrestling.

Tibau stuffed all of his takedowns sure, and probably should have won that fight in all honesty.

yourdeadwright

Khabib - Submission

12gauge dave wrote: »

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Can't understand all the criticism of Khabib really. He absolutely dominated the fight on the floor and on the feet. How many times did he land the straight left? He has never lost a single round in the UFC, that's unbelievable!

Some sense been spoken. Al laquinta barely touched khabib and al is very heavy handed with big ko power. Khabib stand up impressed me if anything.

Guys like AL can't be compared to Conor, Al is a scrapper with heay hands but a worse version of  Eddie Alverz ,
I think people should remember the Eddie fight, as it showed how far ahead  Conor is with his striking, He is light years ahead of the like of AL, Eddie ,Barboza , Johnson with his hands, its like a different sport,

I think khabib is about as reliant on grounding an opponent in the first 2 rounds as mcgregor is in sparking one within the first 2 also. there's no way he'd last standing with a striker like mcgregor and there's no way mcgregor would last on the ground with khabib. Both would be knackered avoiding getting clipped and tackled but I think it's harder for khabib to drop and catch that front foot. Khabibs punches are not powerful that I can see but mcgregor has a wide stance with a leg that can be caught. there's loadsa questions there to be answered alright especially after khabib wobbled like **** after a johnson punch. I'd love to see them fight but something tells me pride and a huge bank balance might keep mcgregor away, what a build up that would be though, imagine the embedded.. half mcgregor's camp with ankle bracelets.
Funny john kavanagh once saved him from going down a bad road when he hadn't a pot to piss in, now he's a multi millionaire ten times over and john might yet again have to step in and pull him back into the real world or get him centred.

EagererBeaver

Kavanagh knows which side of his bread is buttered. He'll not do any reigning in, so to speak, of McGregor at all.

RebelSoul

Rose - Decision

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Kavanagh knows which side of his bread is buttered. He'll not do any reigning in, so to speak, of McGregor at all.

Agree, I think it's gone beyond that at this stage.

JoeyJJ

Khabib take downs last fight were mostly single leg and very low ended up getting hold of lower leading to something more substantial, not sure if moisture was reason he didn't get a hold of him as easily in the later rounds however Conor could fashion some battery powered leg warmers for his walk to the cage

In seriousness though I could see him rag dolling Conor if he gets hold of waist area like he has done previously with quite a few people.

Roll on June 14th to see how Conor gets on in his next fight. The biggest issue he will have is shutting the f*ck up in court more than likely.

Sofiztikated

Al's squared boxing stance seemed to work in his favour, but I think Conors ability to get in and out would benefit him.

There was times when Khabib shot for the single leg that I was shouting for Al to move and come in with a hooking left.

In my defence, I was gargled, and haven't watched it back since.

MrStuffins

Tazzimus wrote: »

Did you watch the Johnson fight?
He made him do the chicken dance with one punch.......
.

This kind of thing is indicative of the mentality of a lot of MMA "fans" and how they let their bias get in the way of having an opinion worth listening to.

Droning on about the fact that Khabib was wobbled, ONCE, in a prize-fight is mad to me. It's the only thing these kinds of people have to cling onto.

The fact that, in 26 professional MMA matches, Khabib has been so much better than everyone he's fought that the only time he has looked even the smallest bit vulnerable was when he was wobbled slightly by a punch, in a fight where he ended up so dominant that he was telling his opponent to give up, is is pretty astounding.

To keep pointing it out as a negative rather than the positive that it actually is is pretty pathetic.

Tazzimus

MrStuffins wrote: »

This kind of thing is indicative of the mentality of a lot of MMA "fans" and how they let their bias get in the way of having an opinion worth listening to.

Droning on about the fact that Khabib was wobbled, ONCE, in a prize-fight is mad to me. It's the only thing these kinds of people have to cling onto.

The fact that, in 26 professional MMA matches, Khabib has been so much better than everyone he's fought that the only time he has looked even the smallest bit vulnerable was when he was wobbled slightly by a punch, in a fight where he ended up so dominant that he was telling his opponent to give up, is is pretty astounding.

To keep pointing it out as a negative rather than the positive that it actually is is pretty pathetic.

You should probably quote the rest of that sentence pal

He was wobbled, Johnson didn't capitalise, and subsequently got murdered for the rest of the fight.

Also, on his record, it's massively padded out, something most people tend to overlook/ignore.

I don't see why it's "pathetic", it shows that he is not this magical superhuman that can beat all in front of him. It shows he has insane wrestling and will suck the life out of you for 2 rounds, but that he is incredibly hittable while standing up and was wobbled by an average enough striker in Johnson.
Put him with a good striker (more so with hands than feet) and he'll be lit up every time.

yourdeadwright

Khabib - Submission

MrStuffins wrote: »

Tazzimus wrote: »

Did you watch the Johnson fight?
He made him do the chicken dance with one punch.......
.

This kind of thing is indicative of the mentality of a lot of MMA "fans" and how they let their bias get in the way of having an opinion worth listening to.

Droning on about the fact that Khabib was wobbled, ONCE, in a prize-fight is mad to me. It's the only thing these kinds of people have to cling onto.

The fact that, in 26 professional MMA matches, Khabib has been so much better than everyone he's fought that the only time he has looked even the smallest bit vulnerable was when he was wobbled slightly by a punch, in a fight where he ended up so dominant that he was telling his opponent to give up, is is pretty astounding.

To keep pointing it out as a negative rather than the positive that it actually is is pretty pathetic.

Can you not understand that when looking at a fight you always look at each fighters weak points,
Obviously Conor can be outwrestled be Khabib, And if Khabib was wobbled by Johnson surely you can see why people would think a far superior boxer like Conor may drop him ?
I don't get how you don't understand that argument , even if he wasn't wobbled you can clearly see his strongest point is his wrestling so you'd be looking to beat him at his weakest point his striking , You don't really have to be Einstein to see why it matters,
An example is JJ , Roses team had seen her wobbled before so before the first fight decide the best way to get the win was to go after her chin ,Which rose did and bang ko''d her
Nganno striking looked lethal so guess what Stipe wrestled him ,
 How do you not understand its clever to attack what looks like a fighters weakest point ,

MrStuffins

I agree that his striking wasn't Wonderboy level and I think that Khabib would've struggled against Conor, Tony or Max.... I even said so on this thread.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Agreeing with the sentiments here. I actually think Conor, Tony & Max all would have given Khabib a really hard time tonight on that performance

But this Michael Johnson thing is pathetic. Calling Johnson and "average striker"and using terms like "chicken dance" do nothing but show your bias.

Khabib is the champion and he is, without a doubt, the #1 guy in the division. He' s never even come close to losing a fight and he hasn't even lost a round. These are all positives.

Again, the fact that the closest he's come to "losing" was being wobbled once over 26 fights is a positive. if you see it as a negative, that speaks volumes about you. Not Khabib!

Tazzimus

MrStuffins wrote: »

I agree that his striking wasn't Wonderboy level and I think that Khabib would've struggled against Conor, Tony or Max.... I even said so on this thread.



But this Michael Johnson thing is pathetic. Calling Johnson and "average striker"and using terms like "chicken dance" do nothing but show your bias.

Khabib is the champion and he is, without a doubt, the #1 guy in the division. He' s never even come close to losing a fight and he hasn't even lost a round. These are all positives.

Again, the fact that the closest he's come to "losing" was being wobbled once over 26 fights is a positive. if you see it as a negative, that speaks volumes about you. Not Khabib!

Ok, why is it pathetic exactly?
Johnson is a fairly average striker, I don't see how that's not clear. He threw wild shots at Khabib and hit him. Someone with some control and accuracy will turn his face into hamburger meat.

Khabib certainly is the champion, by beating a last second replacement who isn't even top 10.
He did this in reasonably dominant fashion so he certainly earned it, I'm not denying that.
However, if the original fight went ahead, I could see Tony holding the belt, not Khabib.

As for the never coming close to losing a fight, Tibau would like a word. Most people, myself included, think Tibau should have won that, not Khabib.

ricero

Rose - Submission

Rogan has apologised on instagram for him commentating performance during the Khabib fight

Mellor

Inviere wrote: »

We watched Khabib absolutely maul Barboza on the ground for 25 mins though, so I'm not sure I'd agree. .

No we didn't. We we see him dominate 3 rounds, and by the 3rd Barboza was dead on his feet, and Khabib was able to slow the pace.

Last night was the only time Khabib has been past the 3rd round.

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Can't understand all the criticism of Khabib really. He absolutely dominated the fight on the floor and on the feet. How many times did he land the straight left? He has never lost a single round in the UFC, that's unbelievable!

Khabib is a top LW, fighting a guy who wasn't in the top ten.
It's like Woodley fighting Cowboy Cerone. Dominance is expected.

Mellor

MrStuffins wrote: »

Again, the fact that the closest he's come to "losing" was being wobbled once over 26 fights is a positive. if you see it as a negative, that speaks volumes about you. Not Khabib!

I'd have said the closest he came to losing in his career was the decision he had over Glenson Tibeau. 30-27 on the scorecards and most of the media was 30-27 the opposite way.

Might be a time to rewatch that one

riffmongous

I just rewatched the fight (on mute) and Tibau stuffs all the takedowns but doesn't do very much else. It would have been a good candidate for a draw, otherwise rds 1,3 to Khabib

The other thing is how the hell did it take another 3 years for Tibau to fail a drug test??

MrStuffins

Tazzimus wrote: »

Ok, why is it pathetic exactly?

Because you're framing being wobbled as a criticism of a fighter. It's not. Especially when he dominated that fight. He wasn't even knocked down.

However, if the original fight went ahead, I could see Tony holding the belt, not Khabib.

Of course you could. Can't help but think your bias would be in play here.

As for the never coming close to losing a fight, Tibau would like a word. Most people, myself included, think Tibau should have won that, not Khabib.

Mellor wrote: »

I'd have said the closest he came to losing in his career was the decision he had over Glenson Tibeau. 30-27 on the scorecards and most of the media was 30-27 the opposite way.

Might be a time to rewatch that one

I'll need to watch this one again but I don't really remember this being a robbery. I remember thinking Khabib won it. But i'll watch again.

Ush1

MrStuffins wrote: »

I agree that his striking wasn't Wonderboy level and I think that Khabib would've struggled against Conor, Tony or Max.... I even said so on this thread.



But this Michael Johnson thing is pathetic. Calling Johnson and "average striker"and using terms like "chicken dance" do nothing but show your bias.

Khabib is the champion and he is, without a doubt, the #1 guy in the division. He' s never even come close to losing a fight and he hasn't even lost a round. These are all positives.

Again, the fact that the closest he's come to "losing" was being wobbled once over 26 fights is a positive. if you see it as a negative, that speaks volumes about you. Not Khabib!

I have my doubts, Ferguson is/was? the interim champ, I think he beats Khabib.

Gamb!t

Rose - TKO/KO

MrStuffins wrote: »

I agree that his striking wasn't Wonderboy level and I think that Khabib would've struggled against Conor, Tony or Max.... I even said so on this thread.



But this Michael Johnson thing is pathetic. Calling Johnson and "average striker"and using terms like "chicken dance" do nothing but show your bias.

Khabib is the champion and he is, without a doubt, the #1 guy in the division. He' s never even come close to losing a fight and he hasn't even lost a round. These are all positives.

Again, the fact that the closest he's come to "losing" was being wobbled once over 26 fights is a positive. if you see it as a negative, that speaks volumes about you. Not Khabib!

Actually he has,surprised he didnt lose his match to Tibau years back.

MrStuffins

Anyone actually got a .gif of that punch? I seem to remember he wasn't even wobbled by it. He just got hit hard in the face.

I'm open to correction.

Tazzimus

MrStuffins wrote: »

Because you're framing being wobbled as a criticism of a fighter. It's not. Especially when he dominated that fight. He wasn't even knocked down.

He wasn't knocked down because Johnson couldn't/didn't follow up. Khabib then proceeded to make him his bitch.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Of course you could. Can't help but think your bias would be in play here.

I think your bias is clouding your judgement somewhat more than mine.
I can see that while Khabib is indeed a terror if he grabs you and drags you to the floor, he is extremely vulnerable while the fight is standing, not sure what about that isn't abundantly clear.
Any top striker will pick him apart at will while they're on the feet.
Similarly, anyone with less than stellar TDD will be broken by the smothering pressure his wrestling brings.

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'll need to watch this one again but I don't really remember this being a robbery. I remember thinking Khabib won it. But i'll watch again.

It certainly wasn't as dominant as most people seem to think it was anyway.

MrStuffins

Tazzimus wrote: »

I think your bias is clouding your judgement somewhat more than mine.

I haven't got a bias. As I said before, I think Khabib would've had a torrid time agains any of the guys mentioned previously. I think Conor would've taken him out.

But I also think that with regard to harping on about that one time Khabib got hit hard in the face and using that as a criticism of him.......... to say that was clutching at straws woud be an understatement!

yourdeadwright

Khabib - Submission

MrStuffins wrote: »

Tazzimus wrote: »

I think your bias is clouding your judgement somewhat more than mine.

I haven't got a bias. As I said before, I think Khabib would've had a torrid time agains any of the guys mentioned previously. I think Conor would've taken him out.

But I also think that with regard to harping on about that one time Khabib got hit hard in the face and using that as a criticism of him.......... to say that was clutching at straws woud be an understatement!

Ok so we should all just say ,
Khabib has no weakness and will just rag doll everyone, as that's all we have see so far ,
Cause the one time he was wobbled (yes it happened)  is not aloud to be taken into account or spoken about ,
Glad you cleared that up for everyone ,

xtal191

Rose - Decision

Johnson really didn't hurt Khabib as much as people make out

https://www.mma-core.com/videos/Khabib_Nurmagomedov_vs_Michael_Johnson_UFC_205_Full_Fight_Part_1/10154396

Seriously watch the above from 3.10 and make sure to mute it so there's none of Rogans over the top commentary.

MrStuffins

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Ok so we should all just say ,
Khabib has no weakness and will just rag doll everyone, as that's all we have see so far ,
Cause the one time he was wobbled (yes it happened)  is not aloud to be taken into account or spoken about ,
Glad you cleared that up for everyone ,

And here is the problem. You completely fail to acknowledge the existence of the middle-ground.

MrStuffins

xtal191 wrote: »

Johnson really didn't hurt Khabib as much as people make out

https://www.mma-core.com/videos/Khabib_Nurmagomedov_vs_Michael_Johnson_UFC_205_Full_Fight_Part_1/10154396

Seriously watch the above from 3.10 and make sure to mute it so there's none of Rogans over the top commentary.

It's actually less-conspicuous that I thought. He got hit hard..... that was about it. He didn't look in any sort of trouble.

And this is the one "weakness" that people are using against him.

yourdeadwright

Khabib - Submission

MrStuffins wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Ok so we should all just say ,
Khabib has no weakness and will just rag doll everyone, as that's all we have see so far ,
Cause the one time he was wobbled (yes it happened)  is not aloud to be taken into account or spoken about ,
Glad you cleared that up for everyone ,

And here is the problem. You completely fail to acknowledge the existence of the middle-ground.

Which is ?
Is the middle ground not what people are saying, Khabib is a great wrestle but Conor can ko him ,

MrStuffins

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Which is ?
Is the middle ground not what people are saying, Khabib is a great wrestle but Conor can ko him ,

Conor can KO him. He can KO anyone.

The middle ground is realising that anyone really clinging onto the fact that Michael Johnson punched him hard tells us anything is clutching at straws.

He didn't do the "chicken dance" or anything like it. He got punched in a fight. It's not notable for anything other than the fact that Rogan over-emphasised it's significance on commentary.