All Ireland Senior Football Championship 2018 thread - Mod warning post #3147

Always number 1

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Dublin Roscommon on it’s own in Croker. If dubs hve won both they will prob play reserves so might not be a great crowd

The U20 All Ireland final is the curtain raiser

charlie14

After today it will be a very nervous Kerry team heading to Clones next week.
Kerry were clueless today on how to breakdown the Galway defense. It looked as if they had no plan, which is surprising as it is the defense Galway have been deploying all year.
They are not going to find Monaghan`s set-up any easier.

Loafing Oaf

So who do we think is most likely to put it up to Dublin this year? I still think in spite of all their travails it could be Kerry. I reckon they have the most potential to score heavily against a tight defence. Plus Dublin could be slightly more vulnerable in the semi than the final...

SecretsOfEarth

Kerry, like the last few years, are vulnerable at the back and have no discernible defensive structure. I think, if Galway could fire on all cylinders they could do well.

Utopia Parkway

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

So who do we think is most likely to put it up to Dublin this year? I still think in spite of all their travails it could be Kerry. I reckon they have the most potential to score heavily against a tight defence. Plus Dublin could be slightly more vulnerable in the semi than the final...

Even though the Dublin forwards have not really clicked yet like they can it's hard not to see them running up a very big score against that Kerry defence.

Loafing Oaf

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Even though the Dublin forwards have not really clicked yet like they can it's hard not to see them running up a very big score against that Kerry defence.

For Kerry to win they would need to build up into an early lead. Then Dublin would be forced to come out of their shell and the game turns into a high-scoring shootout. Dublin probably still favourites in that scenario but Kerry would have a decent shout; not sure any other team would regardless of the pattern of the game...

equivariant

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

So who do we think is most likely to put it up to Dublin this year? I still think in spite of all their travails it could be Kerry. I reckon they have the most potential to score heavily against a tight defence. Plus Dublin could be slightly more vulnerable in the semi than the final...

I think Kerry would be doing well to get within 5 points of Dublin. Two last minute goals by Clifford have given a very false impression of how good they are. Honestly I think that they are pretty rubbish at the moment. If they somehow manage to squeeze through, I'd say Dublin will eat them alive. I honestly don't see where you think Kerry could score heavily against a tight defence. Clifford is their only really dangerous forward and he won't get enough ball against Dublin to make the difference.

Of Galway/Donegal/Tyrone, I think they could all stay within 3 or 4 points but ultimately I think that Dublin will have too much for all of them - especially in a tight finish. The Dubs have so much experience and confidence in tight games at this stage. Injuries are about the only thing that can stop the 4-in-a-row I think

jimmytwotimes 2013

equivariant wrote: »

Clifford is their only really dangerous forward and he won't get enough ball against Dublin to make the difference.

Paul Geaney no good?

equivariant

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Paul Geaney no good?

He hasn't been good in their last two games. He doesn't seem to me to be a big enough character to really disturb the dubs. Clifford does but he's young and there's only one of him.

jimmytwotimes 2013

equivariant wrote: »

He hasn't been good in their last two games. He doesn't seem to me to be a big enough character to really disturb the dubs. Clifford does but he's young and there's only one of him.

Was wondering, two matches wouldn't be much to base judgement on. Seán O'Shea handy enuf too.

Fr Tod Umptious

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Was wondering, two matches wouldn't be much to base judgement on. SeO'Shea handy enuf too.

A more esteemed commentator than myself, Sylvester Hennessy (Kerry’s Eye, Radio Kerry), has stated more than once in the last few weeks that this sort of performance from Kerry is nothing new.

The general malaise, the inability to power on late in games, the odd bench decisions etc. He points out that Kerry have not beaten a Div 1 team in Championship since 2015.

Kerry have some gifted forwards, but against big teams they are not functioning as a team in anyway shape or form, and to expect them to just “turn it on” in Croke Park against Dublin is fanciful if you ask me.

People may point out that Mayo looked equally disjointed last year and the year before but in my opinion Mayo were far more consistent.

They beat Derry well in ET, after a slow start they kicked on v Clare, they were well ahead v Cork before they made a few bench changes, they hammered Roscommon when it came to it.

Kerry have been stuck in a rut, with the exception of Clare, Cork and Galway last year, never being able to dictate a game, never being able to win pulling up, never being able to do what we regularly saw from Kerry in previous years.

Hulk Hands

I think Geaney has enough credit in the bank to still be called top class after two quiet games. He wasn't even poor against Galway, 2 from play in a low scoring game is a grand return

jimmytwotimes 2013

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A more esteemed commentator than myself, Sylvester Hennessy (Kerry’s Eye, Radio Kerry), has stated more than once in the last few weeks that this sort of performance from Kerry is nothing new.

The general malaise, the inability to power on late in games, the odd bench decisions etc. He points out that Kerry have not beaten a Div 1 team in Championship since 2015.

Kerry have some gifted forwards, but against big teams they are not functioning as a team in anyway shape or form, and to expect them to just “turn it on” in Croke Park against Dublin is fanciful if you ask me.

People may point out that Mayo looked equally disjointed last year and the year before but in my opinion Mayo were far more consistent.

They beat Derry well in ET, after a slow start they kicked on v Clare, they were well ahead v Cork before they made a few bench changes, they hammered Roscommon when it came to it.

Kerry have been stuck in a rut, with the exception of Clare, Cork and Galway last year, never being able to dictate a game, never being able to win pulling up, never being able to do what we regularly saw from Kerry in previous years.

Kerry have issues. Thats why they're firing out championship debuts to beat the band. Will take time.

I was responding to the claim Kerry have only one decent forward.

equivariant

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Kerry have issues. Thats why they're firing out championship debuts to beat the band. Will take time.

I was responding to the claim Kerry have only one decent forward.

I never said that they have just one decent forward. It's just that they have only one forward who is something more than just decent. Geaney is surely a good footballer, but I just don't think that he is a game breaker in the way that Clifford clearly could be. Given that Kerry have problems in all areas of the field, its hard to see them competing with Dublin.

I think that the problem is that many people start their analysis of matchups vs Dublin with the assumption that everything is going to go right for the other team. Sure if O'Shea plays out of his skin, and Geaney and Clifford also play out of their skin, and Fitzmaurice gets his tactics spot on and the defence manage to contain the Dublin attack and the Kerry midfield somehow compete with McCarthy, and Cluxton has a bad day with the kickouts then Kerry would be there or thereabouts, but how likely are all of those things to happen? I just think that there are too many things going wrong for Kerry for it all to come good.

jimmytwotimes 2013

equivariant wrote: »

I never said that they have just one decent forward. It's just that they have only one forward who is something more than just decent. Geaney is surely a good footballer, but I just don't think that he is a game breaker in the way that Clifford clearly could be. Given that Kerry have problems in all areas of the field, its hard to see them competing with Dublin.

I think that the problem is that many people start their analysis of matchups vs Dublin with the assumption that everything is going to go right for the other team. Sure if O'Shea plays out of his skin, and Geaney and Clifford also play out of their skin, and Fitzmaurice gets his tactics spot on and the defence manage to contain the Dublin attack and the Kerry midfield somehow compete with McCarthy, and Cluxton has a bad day with the kickouts then Kerry would be there or thereabouts, but how likely are all of those things to happen? I just think that there are too many things going wrong for Kerry for it all to come good.

Kerry haven't a hope of beating Dublin. Work in progress, bout 7/8 players you'd keep and the bench needs rejuvenating as well.

Fann Linn

It would be a thing of beauty if Dublin met Kerry in the final this year.

ArnoldJRimmer

Fann Linn wrote: »

It would be a thing of beauty if Dublin met Kerry in the final this year.

They can only meet in the semi final this year, mathematically impossible for the groups to turn out in such a way that they could avoid each other until the final

equivariant

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

They can only meet in the semi final this year, mathematically impossible for the groups to turn out in such a way that they could avoid each other until the final

Not true. Dublin will finish second in their group if they lose to Roscommon and Tyrone/Donegal is not a draw. (Not likely of course, but not 'mathematically impossible')

ArnoldJRimmer

equivariant wrote: »

Not true. Dublin will finish second in their group if they lose to Roscommon and Tyrone/Donegal is not a draw.

Head to head counts first, Dublin have already beaten both teams

equivariant

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Head to head counts first, Dublin have already beaten both teams

Ah OK - my bad. I thought it was points diff

ArnoldJRimmer

equivariant wrote: »

Ah OK - my bad. I thought it was points diff

Points difference for two or more teams. And in the case of Monaghan and Kerry, because their game was a draw, it could go down to points diff between those teams for second place

blanch152

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Points difference for two or more teams. And in the case of Monaghan and Kerry, because their game was a draw, it could go down to points diff between those teams for second place

Kerry need a five-point swing to draw level with Monaghan, a six-point swing to finish ahead. If Monaghan lose by 1, Kerry need to win by 5, lose by 2, win by 4 etc.

C__MC

After Munster final, really felt Kerry could challenge Dublin. Seen them in the flesh last Sunday, they where very disappointing. A number of key players off form. Full back line at sea, the keeper way to pedestrian on Kick out. Midfield were poor. All this points to a Dublin win. The days of Dublin perhaps playing all out attacking football may be over. I’d suspect they’d strangle the life out of Kerry. Lads would drop back and play deep.

In saying that, Kerry always play well v the dubs. Last 3 games championship have been very close.

Loafing Oaf

equivariant wrote: »

I think that the problem is that many people start their analysis of matchups vs Dublin with the assumption that everything is going to go right for the other team. Sure if O'Shea plays out of his skin, and Geaney and Clifford also play out of their skin, and Fitzmaurice gets his tactics spot on and the defence manage to contain the Dublin attack and the Kerry midfield somehow compete with McCarthy, and Cluxton has a bad day with the kickouts then Kerry would be there or thereabouts, but how likely are all of those things to happen? I just think that there are too many things going wrong for Kerry for it all to come good.

But do any of the other teams even have this potential "to be there or thereabouts if everything goes right on the day." Galway maybe, but do Galway really believe 'in their bones' they can beat Dublin?

C__MC

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But do any of the other teams even have this potential "to be there or thereabouts if everything goes right on the day." Galway maybe, but do Galway really believe 'in their bones' they can beat Dublin?

Probably not. Dublin would bring the best out in Geaney for example. Don’t know why but it just would. Probably the history of the clash and so on.

grbear

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

So who do we think is most likely to put it up to Dublin this year? I still think in spite of all their travails it could be Kerry. I reckon they have the most potential to score heavily against a tight defence. Plus Dublin could be slightly more vulnerable in the semi than the final...

I'm trying to be objective here but even so I am still going to say Galway but only because I think the full forward line puts them marginally ahead of the other contenders. However, I don't think they are good enough to beat Dublin unless they get a massive slice of good fortune on the day.


It's weird, and more than a bit scary, that it seems to be universally accepted that Dublin aren't playing as well as they did last year but they are still everyone's clear favourite for the All-Ireland.

blanch152

grbear wrote: »

I'm trying to be objective here but even so I am still going to say Galway but only because I think the full forward line puts them marginally ahead of the other contenders. However, I don't think they are good enough to beat Dublin unless they get a massive slice of good fortune on the day.


It's weird, and more than a bit scary, that it seems to be universally accepted that Dublin aren't playing as well as they did last year but they are still everyone's clear favourite for the All-Ireland.

Dublin have been extremely efficient at game management this year - build up a lead of five to six points by the middle of the second half and see the game out by controlling it.

It was noticeable again in Omagh that in the first half they left at least Rock plus one other up front, but by the last 20 minutes were keeping everybody behind the ball when they lost possession. It was as if they believed that no team can catch them when they go ahead so all that is required is to protect the lead.

BonnieSituation

C__MC wrote: »

After Munster final, really felt Kerry could challenge Dublin. Seen them in the flesh last Sunday, they where very disappointing. A number of key players off form. Full back line at sea, the keeper way to pedestrian on Kick out. Midfield were poor. All this points to a Dublin win. The days of Dublin perhaps playing all out attacking football may be over. I’d suspect they’d strangle the life out of Kerry. Lads would drop back and play deep.

In saying that, Kerry always play well v the dubs. Last 3 games championship have been very close.

Last 3 championship games:

AISF 2013:
Dublin 3-18 Kerry 3-11

AIF 2015:
Dublin 0-12 Kerry 0-09

AISF 2016:
Dublin 0-22 Kerry 2-14

I dunno about that now having been at all 3.

Bass Reeves

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Last 3 championship games:

AISF 2013:
Dublin 3-18 Kerry 3-11

AIF 2015:
Dublin 0-12 Kerry 0-09

AISF 2016:
Dublin 0-22 Kerry 2-14

I dunno about that now having been at all 3.

All the games were competitive until the last 5-10 minutes. Not only that there was stages in all the ganes where It looked like Kerry might win. While Mayo were closer to Dublin score wise you always had the feeling that Mayo would bottle it. In 2013 and 2016 Kerry just had not got the bench to close out the game in 2015 it was Fitzmaurice reluctance to change tactics and bring on Donaghy earlier along with letting the Gooch( same in 2016) on the pitch after his bolt was run that made Dublin job easier.

I was at all three as well and both 2013 and 2016 were helter skelter games with Dublin looking like running away with them Kerry coming back and going ahead by 5ish points and then being unable to sustain the pace. The conditions for the 2015 match made it a different type of game.

I was at 2013 and 2017 All Ireland Finals and while they were entralling contests you always got the feeling that Mayo would find a way to lose.

The_Honeybadger

BonnieSituation wrote: »

C__MC wrote: »

After Munster final, really felt Kerry could challenge Dublin. Seen them in the flesh last Sunday, they where very disappointing. A number of key players off form. Full back line at sea, the keeper way to pedestrian on Kick out. Midfield were poor. All this points to a Dublin win. The days of Dublin perhaps playing all out attacking football may be over. I’d suspect they’d strangle the life out of Kerry. Lads would drop back and play deep.

In saying that, Kerry always play well v the dubs. Last 3 games championship have been very close.

Last 3 championship games:

AISF 2013:
Dublin 3-18 Kerry 3-11

AIF 2015:
Dublin 0-12 Kerry 0-09

AISF 2016:
Dublin 0-22 Kerry 2-14

I dunno about that now having been at all 3.

All of those were competitive games, not sure what point you are trying to make.

Irrelevant now anyway. Two very different teams at this stage with Dublin ahead in every way I can think of. I think Dublin would hammer us if we happen to meet this year.

Poor_old_gill

For some reason- I’ve watched the game back again and leaving McManus 1 on 1 inside has to be a sackable offence for Fitzmaurice

Fr Tod Umptious

grbear wrote: »

I'm trying to be objective here but even so I am still going to say Galway but only because I think the full forward line puts them marginally ahead of the other contenders. However, I don't think they are good enough to beat Dublin unless they get a massive slice of good fortune on the day.


It's weird, and more than a bit scary, that it seems to be universally accepted that Dublin aren't playing as well as they did last year but they are still everyone's clear favourite for the All-Ireland.

With the team that has run them closest over the last few seasons already out, and Kerry playing muck then there is not too much to choose from.

Galway have improved but people still have their doubts about them, as Thomas O Se articulated on the Sunday Game last Sunday night.

There is not much out there.

Grandeeod

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

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With the team that has run them closest over the last few seasons already out, and Kerry playing muck then there is not too much to choose from.

Galway have improved but people still have their doubts about them, as Thomas O Se articulated on the Sunday Game last Sunday night.

There is not much out there.

For the first time in my life I have over analysed Dublin's potential to win a four in a row. With Mayo gone and an unimpressive Kerry in the mix, I really don't see Donegal, Tyrone or Monaghan being up to it. Depending on the draw, Galway may come close, but it does look like a Dublin All Ireland this year.

Always number 1

In other news Denis Connerton has stepped down from Longford job. He did reasonably well with the panel he had and had them performing consistently.
Maybe he feels a new voice will bring them on to the next stage. I wish him well.

C__MC

Few managerial casualties

Down
Louth
Waterford
Westmeath
Longford
Cavan

sightband

C__MC wrote: »

Few managerial casualties

Down
Louth
Waterford
Westmeath
Longford
Cavan

Louth bainisteoir was always going to have go unless he brought Sam back, no surprise there.

Say Your Number

Cathal Corey has stood down as Sligo manager after one awful season, get O'Hara in now.

charlie14

sightband wrote: »

Louth bainisteoir was always going to have go unless he brought Sam back, no surprise there.

If that is going to be the yardstick a new manager is going to be judged on, somehow I cannot see too many being injured in the rush for the job.:D

charlie14

Say Your Number wrote: »

Cathal Corey has stood down as Sligo manager after one awful season, get O'Hara in now.

I`ve a feeling if he did he would quickly learn the difference between being outside the tent urinating in and being inside the tent urinating out. Something from much of his commentary he seems unaware off.