Shotgun accessories laws

Ireseamus

Anyone know if you have a shotgun and put a pistol grip and adjustable stock on it can you register it as restricted after and is it easy to do or do you have to do it ie. What will happen if you dont ...

Sparks

It's not merely registering as restricted, the restricted and unrestricted licences are wholly seperate animals. You'd have to apply to the chief super for a new restricted licence before you made the modification (without cancelling the old unrestricted licence) if you were planning on doing it yourself.

And if caught doing without, you're in possession of an unlicenced restricted firearm which has a maximum penalty of seven years in prison and twenty grand in fines. And there might be questions over importation licences for the components if someone wanted to get all fussy. That's a worst case scenario, but it's usually best to know how badly wrong something you're thinking of doing can go...

Ireseamus

Even if you can buy the stock in ireland its still not allowed... also was reading law and it says magazine capacity of three then I also saw gun capacity of three so one in chamber counts or not

gunny123

3 in total, one in the chamber and 2 in the tube.

Ireseamus

Even though law says 3 round magazine

gunny123

Ireseamus wrote: »

Even though law says 3 round magazine

Where does it say that ?

Ireseamus

I was reading a different t site.... Are there any groups of people trying to get government to lax any of these laws maybe bring them in line with uk

Cass

Ireseamus wrote: »

Even though law says 3 round magazine

The law doesn't say three round magazine it says containing three rounds:

SI 21/2008

...........so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges...........

A small difference but an important legal one.

Ireseamus wrote: »

I was reading a different t site.... Are there any groups of people trying to get government to lax any of these laws maybe bring them in line with uk

We don't have a lobby group like in the States, but we have representative groups that are involved in some aspects of firearm law.

As for bringing us in line with the UK, no thanks. No pistols other than muzzle loaders or long barreled, no semi auto C/F rifles, land checks for hunting before getting a license (or not if they deem it unsuitable), etc. This and i believe they are reviewing the law on air firearms to have them licensed regardless of muzzle energy.

Grass is not always greener.

jb88

Ireseamus wrote: »

Anyone know if you have a shotgun and put a pistol grip and adjustable stock on it can you register it as restricted after and is it easy to do or do you have to do it ie. What will happen if you dont ...

Hi the alterations stated above do not require restricted licence.

Restricted licence for shotguns means a larger than 3 rd capacity and the ability to purchase slugs on the licence & you have to apply for a new licence via an FCA 1 and put a tick on the restricted box

cookimonster

S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008


. (1) Firearms other than those to which subparagraph (2) relates are declared to be restricted firearms for the purposes of the Act:

(2) This subparagraph relates to the following firearms:

(a) single-shot or repeating short firearms capable of discharging only blank ammunition;

(b) shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges, but not to shotguns—

(i) with a detached, folding or telescopic stock, or

(ii) with a pistol grip, or

(iii) whose barrel is less than 60.9 centimetres (24 inches) in length;

juice1304

It is possible to change it to a restricted licence and then change the stock. I have personally done it. However you need a real reason for it, I had to have an interview with the chief super about it. They wont allow you to do it simply because you want to make it look a certain way.

Gravelly

Forgive my ignorance, but in what way does a pistol grip make a shotgun more dangerous? If I stuck a pistol grip on my o/u will it magically transform into the dreaded "assault rifle"?

Sparks

juice1304 wrote: »

It is possible to change it to a restricted licence and then change the stock. I have personally done it. However you need a real reason for it, I had to have an interview with the chief super about it. They wont allow you to do it simply because you want to make it look a certain way.

It's possible to issue a new licence, but there's no legal way listed in the Act that I know of to change an unrestricted certificate to a restricted certificate; they're separate in law and you cannot legally amend either one with an FCA2 to make it into the other.

Also, you'd want to have the unrestricted licence in force until after the modifications were done; the restricted licence won't cover the unrestricted firearm, so if you cancelled the unrestricted cert and then did the mods, you'd actually be in possession of an unlicenced firearm for a short period.

It's one of the many drafting errors in the law - it should have been done with a licencing levels idea, where restricted would be a subset of unrestricted (or I suppose superset depending on how you think of it), but instead they're completely separate sets.

Sparks

Gravelly wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance, but in what way does a pistol grip make a shotgun more dangerous? If I stuck a pistol grip on my o/u will it magically transform into the dreaded "assault rifle"?

In the way that matters to the Oireachtas - it looks scarier in newspapers and gets more voters complaining to their TDs in the runup to an election.

gunny123

Cass wrote: »

As for bringing us in line with the UK, no thanks. No pistols other than muzzle loaders or long barreled, no semi auto C/F rifles, land checks for hunting before getting a license (or not if they deem it unsuitable), etc. This and i believe they are reviewing the law on air firearms to have them licensed regardless of muzzle energy.

Grass is not always greener.

Not all the UK Cass, centrefire pistols are licenced in the north as you know, and the ptb up there do not seem to have a problem with them being licenced. Ditto the Isle of Man and the Channel islands.
I was on a N.I shooting website a few weeks back and noticed an advert by the PSNI that you can click on and apply for your firearms licences online. That would be a great asset in the republic, but they would make a balls of it here.

Sparks

See, if you say you want to align with the UK, they're not going to pick the version of UK laws that are most friendly to us; they're going to pick the version that gets the most voters here thinking they're doing the right thing and the average joe here doesn't think we need more centerfire pistols here. Or won't, once the Strategic Communications Unit is done writing more advertorials...

Grizzly 45

cookimonster wrote: »

S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008


.
(b) shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges, but not to shotguns—

(i) with a detached, folding or telescopic stock, or

(ii) with a pistol grip, or

(iii) whose barrel is less than 60.9 centimetres (24 inches) in length;

And again we have ambiguity aplenty here in that statement.Also, was it not with a prominent pistol grip? [a while,or is that another version of the act?

Virtually EVERY shotgun stock has a pistol grip on it in some shape or form. Even high-class Olympic sports O/U shotguns can have very prominent pistol grips.Even more so than some so-called riot guns. The wooden ones can cost almost half again as the gun.So somehow a "prominent pistol grip" on a high class O/U is somehow exempt from being restricted, or not considered abnormal, but a 150 euro bit of plastic on a semi or pump action shotgun is somehow a doomsday weapon, yet fulfilling the same function in this act??

And let's not mention thumbhole style stocks on guns like the Remington Goose and deer shotguns,if you want to see legal brain melts.:rolleyes:

Ireseamus

1) Firearms other than those to which subparagraph (2) relates are declared to be restricted firearms for the purposes of the Act:

(2) This subparagraph relates to the following firearms:

(a) single-shot or repeating short firearms capable of discharging only blank ammunition;

(b) shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges, but not to shotguns—

(i) with a detached, folding or telescopic stock, or

(ii) with a pistol grip, or

(iii) whose barrel is less than 60.9 centimetres (24 inches) in length;



It's says firearms other than those witch sub paragraph two relate sounds like to me that they are telling you what is aloud not what isn't

Cass

Gravelly wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance, but in what way does a pistol grip make a shotgun more dangerous?

Suppose if you use it like a billy club ........................... :rolleyes:

gunny123 wrote: »

Not all the UK Cass, centrefire pistols are licenced in the north as you know, and the ptb up there do not seem to have a problem with them being licenced.

Try get a semi auto centrefire and they make people license air rifles like down here.

Ditto the Isle of Man and the Channel islands.

They are the same as us with restricted or prohibited titles attached to semi auto rifles and handguns. Nothing we don't have here.

I was on a N.I shooting website a few weeks back and noticed an advert by the PSNI that you can click on and apply for your firearms licences online. That would be a great asset in the republic, but they would make a balls of it here.

You should read some of the reports from lad that have been waiting on their licenses. Since they started this online renewal lads have been waiting for over four months and one lad said his licenses were up in December 2017, he still hasn't gotten his renewals, and when he rang up he was told it'll be at least another month.

A centralised system might very well be a good idea, but like the 2009 act here, the online version in the North, its all about the application of the system.

Ireseamus wrote: »

It's says firearms other than those witch sub paragraph two relate sounds like to me that they are telling you what is aloud not what isn't

It says firearms OTHER THAN those listed in paragraph two and then lists some unrestricted firearms (namely starting pistols, 22lr pistols (later amended in SI 337/2009). So anything other than those listed are restricted which means any pistol not a starter pistol and anything over 22lr.

When it comes to shotguns they say anything with 3 or fewer rounds, but then adds the pistol grip & folding stock thing to further restrict the ability to possess these type of guns on an unrestricted license.

Don't worry if your head hurts, we all get it.

Half-cocked

Gravelly wrote: »

If I stuck a pistol grip on my o/u will it magically transform into the dreaded "assault rifle"?

You're entirely correct - at least in the minds of the authorities;) Likewise if you replace the wooden stock on your rifle with an evil black carbon fibre one. It's the 'I don't like the look of that' mind set that seems to be a factor in firearms policy.

Applying their logic in reverse, you can render an AK47 harmless by painting it pink and adding a few polka dots....

Grizzly 45

Unrestricted? Kreighoff , prominent pistol grip and telescoping stock [and very expensive.....





Sorry,cant shrink these pics.

Restricted?? 6 position adjustable stock.Does the exact same thing, for about one eighth of the price of the above.The only difference it can be fitted to a pump action.Go figure....
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/kucAAOSwZ5JZjOwd/s-l1600.jpg

J.R.

Ireseamus wrote: »

1) Firearms other than those to which subparagraph (2) relates are declared to be restricted firearms for the purposes of the Act:

(2) This subparagraph relates to the following firearms:

(a) single-shot or repeating short firearms capable of discharging only blank ammunition;

(b) shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges, but not to shotguns—

(i) with a detached, folding or telescopic stock, or

(ii) with a pistol grip, or

(iii) whose barrel is less than 60.9 centimetres (24 inches) in length;



It's says firearms other than those witch sub paragraph two relate sounds like to me that they are telling you what is aloud not what isn't

You are right - but in the middle it mentions what's not allowed....could easily lead to confusion

Sparks

Pretty sure that's restricted Grizzly.
The pistol grip thing is confusing but based on what we were told by the DoJ at the time, they're referring to pistol grips that are not integrated into the buttstock.

Half-cocked

^^^^

Queried with the DoJ and AGS a few years back the position regarding adjustable shotgun stocks such as the one above and Precision Fit Stocks and told 'it was not intended that they would be restricted' - in other words another grey area that could end you up in court.

Sparks

I think it's the telescoping part of the stock that'd get you in trouble with that example above though, not the pistol grip.

J.R.

I think they were trying to avoid the military look but never realised/allowed for the fact that many shotguns, especially those used for clay shooting, have adjustable stocks when buying at the premium end.

As Grizzly illustrated - there are many "ordinary" shotguns with adjustable stocks.

Grizzly 45

Ah yes...The joys of very precise Irish gun legislation where there is no chance of anyone ever screwing things up...Ever...[Sarcasm mode off]

Then you have the paradox of a stock like this.It's defined as a thumbhole stock under US law,and then would be possibly unrestricted here[?] Simply because the grip is still part of the stock by the bit going from the butt to the pistol grip.

www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870/model-870-sps-super-mag-turkey-predator-w/scope

Ireseamus

https://blackhawk.com/products/long-gun-accessories/stocks/shotgun/knoxx-talon-thumbhole-stock

Think this thumb hole stock would be allowed

meathstevie

Sparks wrote: »

Pretty sure that's restricted Grizzly.
The pistol grip thing is confusing but based on what we were told by the DoJ at the time, they're referring to pistol grips that are not integrated into the buttstock.

It's a bit like the zeroing in a remote bog versus target shooting discussion. Prosecution can say you were target shooting, which has no specific definition in law, you can say you were performing a firearm safety check in a safe manner in a safe location.

J.R.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ah yes...The joys of very precise Irish gun legislation where there is no chance of anyone ever screwing things up...Ever...[Sarcasm mode off]

Then you have the paradox of a stock like this.It's defined as a thumbhole stock under US law,and then would be possibly unrestricted here[?] Simply because the grip is still part of the stock by the bit going from the butt to the pistol grip.

www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870/model-870-sps-super-mag-turkey-predator-w/scope

That stock shape (to me) looks as if it would be a very comfortably shaped stock to use - following the natural contours of the human grip position

Grizzly 45

It's a matter of opinion, but for some reason over here the fact that this has a quare shaped grip, makes it extremely dangerous.:rolleyes: