Fake watch busters

btkm8unsl0w5r4

banie01 wrote: »

Was it not only last week we had this argument lads?

Are we really going to rehash it again?

I hear ya brother, but there is absolutely no room in this hobby for fakes, so some of the points are worth repeating. There may come a time where somebody on here, has save and is ready to buy the watch of their dreams, and are pawned one of these high quality fakes...or even worse somebody on here might accidentally sell one to somebody else.

To knowingly buy and wear one has no pride of ownership with a fake, if anything there is a shame of ownership (and if not there should be). It has no value, no substance, its represents nothing good except the need of the owner to pretend they are something they are not, and impress people they claim to not like. Its a fake ferrari, a shuttlecock down the pants, a toupee or bicep implants. It also completely misses the point of a quality watch.

A real Rolex is 10k but it will have resale value and may only cost you 500 euro if you sell, or even make you money if you are patient. A fake is worth nothing, its the fake is the expensive item, not the real thing.

micks_address wrote: »

He isn't trying to impress anyone really

Mehhhh...kind of a oxymoron, he may be humble in front of you about it, but thats just stealth bragging. There is a certain type that feel that owning a good quality fake is win against rich fools. Owning a fake does not make you a bad person, but it does highlight some really poor decision making, and a certain common ability to justify the decision with bizzar logic.

Cienciano

Aitana Freezing Fibula wrote: »

A real Rolex is 10k but it will have resale value and may only cost you 500 euro if you sell, or even make you money if you are patient. A fake is worth nothing, its the fake is the expensive item, not the real thing.

I'm not going to argue the subjective here, but I will argue the facts. A rep has value, and a rep has resale value. In fact many hold their value better than a lot of genuine watches.

Thirdfox

@Mick - can ask your friend why not get a Corteguet instead then (70 euro):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/41mm-CORGEUT-black-dial-blue-Sapphire-glass-miyota-8215-automatic-mens-Watch/114031367716?hash=item1a8ccc9624:m:mLB69QPQTG-akC22-37YZew

edit: he'd save money over getting a replica and quality is likely to be the same as a fake (as it is likely these factories manufacture homages and sterile dials for people who wish to put Omega on the dial instead). Since otherwise he'd be paying an extra 50 euro for that "Omega" on the dial - not necessary to examine quality right, and it's not about the name after all

893bet

micks_address wrote: »

I don't know..I've a friend who has a seamaster 300m and breitling navitimer both bought reputable.. he is thinking of ordering a fake omega aqua Terra for 120 euro from somewhere.. he just likes the look of the watch and is curious to compare to mine. He isn't trying to impress anyone really

Thirdfox wrote: »

@Mick - can ask your friend why not get a Corteguet instead then (70 euro):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/41mm-CORGEUT-black-dial-blue-Sapphire-glass-miyota-8215-automatic-mens-Watch/114031367716?hash=item1a8ccc9624:m:mLB69QPQTG-akC22-37YZew

That looks like decent value.

I am willing to bet he will buy the “omega” for twice the price though.

893bet

banie01 wrote: »

Was it not only last week we had this argument lads?

Are we really going to rehash it again?

This is the fake watches thread!

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Cienciano wrote: »

I'm not going to argue the subjective here, but I will argue the facts. A rep has value, and a rep has resale value. In fact many hold their value better than a lot of genuine watches.

You are of course correct here there is value in replicas...comedy value.But seriously if there is any value in them, its only between two like minded fools or one scammer and his victim.

893bet

Scrap value?

banie01

893bet wrote: »

This is the fake watches thread!

It is, and certainly its where we view and discuss the fakes that are found.
Lately every discussion along those lines descends into "people who wear fakes are fake" and so on.

We all know that, we all know who's going to defend the fakes and who's going to take the above view.

I'm all for discussing the merits, details, cons and any other aspect of any watch presented for a look in the fake thread.

Thats rarely what happens tho, every conversation on it descends into fake watches, fake people.

It's tiresome, the 4130 fake movement with genuine balance and reversing gears installed has taken in experts.
A discussion on that, and how to avoid being caught when buying would be interesting.

Things like Breitling and many Tags using ETA and SW movements meaning it can be quite hard to find a watchmaker who will take a stand on verifying certain models are all worthy topics of discussion IMO.

Not the sniping that comes up every time the "merits" of fakes are raised on here IMO.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

banie01 wrote: »

It is, and certainly its where we view and discuss the fakes that are found.
Lately every discussion along those lines descends into "people who wear fakes are fake" and so on.

We all know that, we all know who's going to defend the fakes and who's going to take the above view.

I'm all for discussing the merits, details, cons and any other aspect of any watch presented for a look in the fake thread.

Thats rarely what happens tho, every conversation on it descends into fake watches, fake people.

It's tiresome, the 4130 fake movement with genuine balance and reversing gears installed has taken in experts.
A discussion on that, and how to avoid being caught when buying would be interesting.

Things like Breitling and many Tags using ETA and SW movements meaning it can be quite hard to find a watchmaker who will take a stand on verifying certain models are all worthy topics of discussion IMO.

Not the sniping that comes up every time the "merits" of fakes are raised on here IMO.

Well put point, but its a bit like COVID19...we can discuss the cure all you want, but the simplest and easiest prevention method is not to bring the disease into the country in the first place, or to buy these sh1tters in the first place, the fewer of them that are around the better. The more hatred the community has for them the better, as the fear of getting caught with one should will be deterrent enough. Highlighting the negative aspects, and the real or inferred character traits that would drive people to own one might make people think twice....just like calling somebody that coughed in my face a dirty cun1.

893bet

banie01 wrote: »

It is, and certainly its where we view and discuss the fakes that are found.
Lately every discussion along those lines descends into "people who wear fakes are fake" and so on.

We all know that, we all know who's going to defend the fakes and who's going to take the above view.

I'm all for discussing the merits, details, cons and any other aspect of any watch presented for a look in the fake thread.

Thats rarely what happens tho, every conversation on it descends into fake watches, fake people.

It's tiresome, the 4130 fake movement with genuine balance and reversing gears installed has taken in experts.
A discussion on that, and how to avoid being caught when buying would be interesting.

Things like Breitling and many Tags using ETA and SW movements meaning it can be quite hard to find a watchmaker who will take a stand on verifying certain models are all worthy topics of discussion IMO.

Not the sniping that comes up every time the "merits" of fakes are raised on here IMO.

Some quality discussion would be great. I agree 100%.

However.

I ain’t gonna give up calling out the fake lovers at any chance I get. We have among us someone who is putting a huge financial and personal investment into creating a brand. Every post on here defending fakes is kicking sand into what he tries to achieve.

banie01

Aitana Freezing Fibula wrote: »

The more hatred the community has for them the better, as the fear of getting caught with one should will be deterrent enough. Highlighting the negative aspects that would drive people to own one might make people think twice.

I agree I do but I think it's very important that we not only **** on the ****ters.
But that we know the tells and the other dangers that can and do lurk in high-value watches.

Some of the moves by the fakers are not only producing watches that would pass a cursory check but also can leave some doubt as to what one owns.
Experts are being taken in on steel watches until the can give a far more detailed check. Things like vintage Rolex 4 digits, certain Panerai and a host of other models in the vintage ranges are being faked to an exceptionally high level and then having genuine parts swapped in too.
It's the people who have these watches without knowing that I worry for!
Imagine breaking your balls to buy a 6542, getting it and then finding out at the Antiques Roadshow or something that you've been diddled.

One of the C4 posh pawn programmes a while back a guy took in a watch and did his checks, weighed it, opened had a look under a loupe and still managed to buy a fake.
Wasn't flagged until later in the same show.

The genuine fear of buying a dud, not as a too good to be true deal but as a deal that's just about what you can afford and will get you what you always wanted...
To find out that you got scammed on something like that would be crushing.

Cienciano

Aitana Freezing Fibula wrote: »

You are of course correct here there is value in replicas...comedy value.But seriously if there is any value in them, its only between two like minded fools or one scammer and his victim.

Well, as I said its all subjective. Lots of people would think spending 10k on a watch when you have a phone in your pocket is stupid.
But your 100% wrong to say a rep has no value or no resale value. Unless they're being passed off as real, there's no scam either.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Cienciano wrote: »

Well, as I said its all subjective. Lots of people would think spending 10k on a watch when you have a phone in your pocket is stupid.
But your 100% wrong to say a rep has no value or no resale value. Unless they're being passed off as real, there's no scam either.

Saying its subjective doesnt make it so. Its not. Real and Fake is objective. Your tollerance for replicas is a decision, but a lot of people are tollerant of things that a generally considered wrong.

It might have a price, but it is absolutely no value. Price is what you pay, value is what you get, and your getting nothing (except a empty feeling inside). As you point out their function is redundant so value is a combination, craftmanship, materials, branding, collectability, rarity, desirability and residual value. A replica basically scores zero in every category and any category that has some merit it stole for somebody else.

Generally stupidity doesnt pay, so the idea that stupidity increases with spending capacity is fake lovers wish rather than the truth, and then that you would want to emulate these stupid fools by wearing inferior simulations of their possessions is very strange and childish.

You might not represent the watch as genuine in any sale, but the next chap might.

They are also illegal.

It belittle the aspiration to own a quality time piece, its belittles those that have worked to buy them and it belittles the work of those that make them. It instills uncertainty in the market and makes the second hand market tricky to navigate.

I welcome the discussion, and think this is the place for it and I think we can all keep it civil, it is hard in this topic to attack only the post and not the poster as this really is a discussion about personal values. But I do love the mental gymnastics that goes into justifing this, and having opions as to what represents a good quality and value fake, its like a dog turd beauty contest.

Cienciano

Aitana Freezing Fibula wrote: »

They are also illegal.

Correct.

scudzilla

When i see pictures in the papers of seizures by CAB and they include Rolex's, how often are these genuine, if fakes are CAB aware of this but post pics anyway because it looks good?

893bet

scudzilla wrote: »

When i see pictures in the papers of seizures by CAB and they include Rolex's, how often are these genuine, if fakes are CAB aware of this but post pics anyway because it looks good?

Usually it’s difficult to tell due to resolution of images. I suspect fake most of the time.

See post below from a few weeks back which is 100% fake.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113338434&postcount=1203

CantGetNoSleep

CAB would be better off stating it's a fake and naming who they took it from. Couldn't be good for the street cred

scwazrh

893bet wrote: »

This is it in a nut shell. To fool other people. To pretend you are “success” as you are someone who measures success on tangible items and want to “impress” others similar to you.

The idea of impressing people with the watch you wear is as ridiculous as buying a fake though.I know a few people with a Rolex on their wrist but driving skodas and living in 3 bed semis.And in contrast I recently got asked by a someone I know to be of high net worth ,to help them choose a "good " watch and they ended up picking quartz Hydroconquest

A watch rarely says anything about someones wealth or stature.

I've been at a few presentations from CAB where seized rolex watches were discussed. They assured us that they were genuine but that certain types of criminal, who love to display wealth, would take them to certain jewellers in London to pimp the watches. This would involve removing the crystal and adding a heap of diamonds to the face, and often the bezel.

Thing is, when CAB go to sell off confiscated goods they try to get the best possible return and they are fully aware of the fact that these watches would be worth more had they not been modified. They will be seeking to reverse the mods at some point if possible...

893bet

scwazrh wrote: »

The idea of impressing people with the watch you wear is as ridiculous as buying a fake though.I know a few people with a Rolex on their wrist but driving skodas and living in 3 bed semis.And in contrast I recently got asked by a someone I know to be of high net worth ,to help them choose a "good " watch and they ended up picking quartz Hydroconquest

I agree. But I can’t understand why someone would buy a fake, especially a high end one when there is a zillion micro brands out there with similar styles and higher quality at the same price point of the fakes.

scwazrh wrote: »

A watch rarely says anything about someones wealth or stature.

x 10.

With interest free credit anyone can have a 5-10k watch. With so much credit around I suspect it limits the amount of “deals” to be had in one way from an AD.
Never really took of in Ireland for watches. There is a flexifi finance I think. Interst free but there is admin charges. I think 5k over 3 years will cost you 5.3k to repay so relatively cheap money.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

scwazrh wrote: »

The idea of impressing people with the watch you wear is as ridiculous as buying a fake .

100% but you do buy watches to impress yourself, they are a form of self expression. Which makes a replica doubly ridiculous, its only yourself your letting down. I only ever instigate watch conversations with other watch people. I know that there is a person that appreciates quality, beauty, precision and craftsmanship and doesn't mind paying for it either, and they can rightly assume the same about me. So the only person that matters is you, the only person that you will impress are the people most likely to know its a fake and embarrass you, and the only people who actually dont care are people not into watches. What is the point of the fake again?

scwazrh

Aitana Freezing Fibula wrote: »

What is the point of the fake again?

There is none, as I said the idea of thinking someone is impressed by the watch you wear is as ridiculous as wearing a fake.The type of people who are impressed by a watch most likely wouldn't be able to spot a fake if it was on their wrist.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

OmegaGene wrote: »

So any fakes out there ?

Here is the worlds cheapest frank Muller or a fake. Rotten either way.

https://www.adverts.ie/casual/watch/20194804

saccades

893bet wrote: »

I agree. But I can’t understand why someone would buy a fake, especially a high end one when there is a zillion micro brands out there with similar styles and higher quality at the same price point of the fakes.




x 10.

With interest free credit anyone can have a 5-10k watch. With so much credit around I suspect it limits the amount of “deals” to be had in one way from an AD.
Never really took of in Ireland for watches. There is a flexifi finance I think. Interst free but there is admin charges. I think 5k over 3 years will cost you 5.3k to repay so relatively cheap money.

Your kidding me right? Anyone can have a 5, 10k watch...

Watches are so niche nowadays that few care about brands, except a few brands which say "I've made it" - for a lot of peope that's why they buy the fakes, they can every now and then scratch together the 500 quid to buy something that's really hard to tell from the original but tells all but the specialists that they have money/"class".

99.99% of the world will see your niche brand and presume it is from Argos and not give a monkeys cuss.


I have a "homage" Sharkey tuna can - it's a copy, an outright theft from the Seiko. Why do/can I wear it as a Seiko fanboy?

I won a corporate award, the corporate colours are green, the dial is green which as anyone who knows, knows it's a fake. So to those who know, I look a fool, but I know that so that's my justification. That and I can't afford 2k for a watch.

893bet

saccades wrote: »

Your kidding me right? Anyone can have a 5, 10k watch...

Not kidding. If you are comfortable living in debt then pretty much anyone can.....and plenty do. Every jewellery in the UK is ramming interest free credit down everyone’s throat.

5k watch for 130 or so quid a month. Achievable for plenty (but madness).

5k up front. A lot less achievable.

unkel

saccades wrote: »

I have a "homage" Sharkey tuna can - it's a copy, an outright theft from the Seiko.

Bit harsh to call an homage an outright theft from the original. It's not claiming to be anything but an homage. And if we did, the end would be nigh. Maybe a Rolex submariner is an outright theft then from a fifty fathoms?

I'd be in the market for a tuna can myself, the blue one - SBBN037. They only seem to exist in Japan though. If I would ever get over there, I think I will pick one up.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

saccades wrote: »

I won a corporate award, the corporate colours are green, the dial is green which as anyone who knows, knows it's a fake. So to those who know, I look a fool, but I know that so that's my justification. That and I can't afford 2k for a watch.

I doubt anyone but you noticed your watch at that time, and its a shame that your achievement is tainted with this detail. I know its cathartic to confess online to these things, but its a good example of the internal disharmony wearing something you yourself know is fake causes. That should have been a happy occasion where you cannot remember what watch you are wearing.

I think if you have a job (especially one that hands out corporate awards) you can have a 2k watch no problem. The only question is what would you sacrifice for it? 50 euro saved a week for a year.

david

https://www.adverts.ie/casual/nomos-glashutte-watch/20447684

Bargain

893bet

david wrote: »

https://www.adverts.ie/casual/nomos-glashutte-watch/20447684

Bargain

“Price negotiable”

Jesus! Tis only 7 euro!

micks_address

893bet wrote: »

“Price negotiable”

Jesus! Tis only 7 euro!

Haggle upwards maybe?