Dublin - BusConnects

Qrt

Y'know, I actually had some sympathy for the people of Kimmage when I skimmed the CRC plans at first. Somehow I got it into my head that the whole street's gardens were being skimmed back a good few metres and that the place would be badly affected.

But f***ing hell, I actually walked the area a few days ago and saw what an utter mess it is. Then I re-examined the plans, realised the land take is nowhere near what I had thought it was going to be, realised how mad it is for vulnerable pedestrians, realised a fair chunk of the land take is a few grotty car lots, and I've come to the conclusion that the area will be massively better off post-BusConnects.

marno21

Fantastic article about BusConnects in yesterday's Indo by Colm McCarthy. Apart from the anti-Metro stuff it well sums up what's going on

https://twitter.com/padsmyth/status/1125024546954858497

Pixel Eater

marno21 wrote: »

Fantastic article about BusConnects in yesterday's Indo by Colm McCarthy. Apart from the anti-Metro stuff it well sums up what's going on

https://twitter.com/padsmyth/status/1125024546954858497

Yeah decent enough article except for his dig against 'Metro North'.

loyatemu

ribbons being tied around trees in Shankill to save them from the evils of BusConnects (not sure how they know which trees are for the chop, the ducument doesn't specify).

marno21

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Yeah decent enough article except for his dig against 'Metro North'.

I think it's been made clear at this stage that he won't be changing his mind on Metro North.

He does have a point in that if it were a binary choice between Metro North and BusConnects, BusConnects would have more wide ranging benefits for the city and would be more useful on a citywide basis. But it's not a binary choice, both are proceeding.

Qrt

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Yeah decent enough article except for his dig against 'Metro North'.

And the “ill suited to trams” part, because the reintroduction of trams to Dublin has been a disaster and nobody uses them...

cgcsb

loyatemu wrote: »

ribbons being tied around trees in Shankill to save them from the evils of BusConnects (not sure how they know which trees are for the chop, the ducument doesn't specify).

They seem to be targeting all trees on that corridor, even in parts where there's no proposed road widening.

Qrt

cgcsb wrote: »

They seem to be targeting all trees on that corridor, even in parts where there's no proposed road widening.

Maybe they’re the wrong type of trees? They recently cut down many on the Tallaght Bypass because the roots are too wide spreading and they were wreaking havoc with the local drains.

Sam Russell

loyatemu wrote: »

ribbons being tied around trees in Shankill to save them from the evils of BusConnects (not sure how they know which trees are for the chop, the ducument doesn't specify).

They are doing it in Ballsbridge along the Merrion Road. However, they fail to understand that many of those trees are unsafe. Wasn't someone killed in Ballsbridge when a tree fell in a storm?

Sam Russell

Qrt wrote: »

And the “ill suited to trams” part, because the reintroduction of trams to Dublin has been a disaster and nobody uses them...

Economists do not use them for economic reasons.

LeinsterDub

loyatemu wrote: »

ribbons being tied around trees in Shankill to save them from the evils of BusConnects (not sure how they know which trees are for the chop, the ducument doesn't specify).

It doesn't matter. The truth rarely matters to the NIMBYs

patrickbrophy18

Instead of cutting the trees down, they could use one of these yolks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYnqQl3I6Nw

Some of the key benefits are as follows:

• They can relocate whole trees in mere minutes
• The tree population is unaffected

Sam Russell

Most trees affected are over 100 years old, have extensive roots, and are on paved spaces, near garden walls and other infrastructure, like street lamps, some of which have power lines running to them.

Many of the trees are beyond their safe life. I expect most of the trees will be replaced.

cgcsb

Qrt wrote: »

Maybe they’re the wrong type of trees? They recently cut down many on the Tallaght Bypass because the roots are too wide spreading and they were wreaking havoc with the local drains.

Nobody cares about trees in Tallaght. These are Ballsbridge trees

Qrt

cgcsb wrote: »

Nobody cares about trees in Tallaght. These are Ballsbridge trees

So they're purposely aiming to chop down the trees in Ballsbridge...because it's Ballsbridge? I'm fairly confused.

Sam Russell

Qrt wrote: »

So they're purposely aiming to chop down the trees in Ballsbridge...because it's Ballsbridge? I'm fairly confused.

No, the politicians are trying to raise their own profile before an election. Prime the village pump so to speak.

cgcsb

Qrt wrote: »

So they're purposely aiming to chop down the trees in Ballsbridge...because it's Ballsbridge? I'm fairly confused.

No it's local election hopefuls putting ribbons on random trees. They think it's an election issue.

Heartbreak Hank

I thought this was a refreshing take on the trees vs. bus connects argument:



Lauren Tuite on Twitter


I would 100% agree with her*. It should be bus connects, then trees/public realm vs. private cars/parking.



I think the submission (linked in the tweet) is of a very high quality with thought out alternatives and solutions and not like many of the "I oppose bus connects and we need better solutions" unqualified blanket statements that I have seen on many election fliers.


*I'm not connected to her or Inchicore at all, I just saw it retweeted.

dublinman1990

I got a leaflet from a local election canvasser from PBP this evening which mentioned some pledge about the 4 route being cut from BusConnects.

It was written in Lola Hynes local election leaflet for the Blackrock ward. It said and I quote.

"Under the proposed 'Bus Connects' plan, the No.4 is to be axed. We want to retain the No.4 and see a bus connecting Newtown Park Avenue to Blackrock."

What does anyone think of that promise from PBP? I actually think they're a living in a cloud cuckoo land about retaining the 4 in this instance.

They are asking for something that could become unattainable if this plan is to secure a brand new public bus network for Dublin. If that route along with all of the others are not due to come back for the 2nd consultation planned for the autumn; well what is the point in asking for something that could be a potential hindrance by causing a conflict of interest in the whole plan. This change is a small one to itself from PBP. But it has a real danger of unravelling itself in how it tries to fit or not fit into the future aspect of the plan. The NTA & Jarret Walker have remarked on numerous occasions that if more than 15% of the network was changed in the next consultation. The plan could become a disaster by becoming unworkable. This type of plan is really a plan that sort of exceeds local politics if it addresses key concerns of the current bus network running around Dublin right now while trying to change it for the better.

It's not reliant on retaining packs of bus routes going into the City Centre. It is trying to do the opposite of that method at this present time by taking most of them out of the City Centre to enhance the future mobility & reliability of inhabitants of the city & around the GDA. It's attempting to radically change in how the bus service in Dublin is being run for the better for all citizens living in it. If a group like PBP had a detailed look at the plan over a considerable period of time and agree with other aspects of the plan like the stage fares being scrapped with a new fare structure that will allow you to have just 2 options for bus fares instead of having multiple stage fares in place & multiple fares for the Xpresso being scrapped while being integrated into the new proposed flat fare system.

One would have to ask here; would a group like PBP be fundamentally against something like that when eyeing for local election seats around Dublin this month?

You see the danger here is that fringe political groups or parties like PBP that are based in Dublin with being against BusConnects are increasing the likelihood of becoming a fundamental part of the problem in how this plan is meant to work for every Dubliner who is meant to use public transport options like the bus as one mode while combining it with other modes as an option when using them in our capital city & GDA in the future. To me PBP don't really try & understand the other core parts of using this plan like having flat fares on Leap Cards with a free 90 minutes transfer on other modes, how the CBC's are meant to work while bus lanes are being enhanced with bus shelters & bus poles being constructed with them & how it's meant to integrate it further with using newly built cycling infrastructure for the city.

CatInABox

Not just PBP, most of the parties, in particular the councillors, have at least some complaints about BusConnects. Some of them clearly haven't looked at the plans at all, some of them haven't looked at the reasoning behind the plans, and some of them just want to be seen "to be doing something". For local councillors, with an election coming up, they see more votes in opposing changes than in campaigning for change, hence the widespread opposition.

Hopefully it dies down after the election, but I'm pretty sure that there'll be a general election in the autumn, FG are only itching for a chance at an election right now, if they could call one without looking like they're putting Brexit in danger they'd have called one long ago.

Qrt

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I got a leaflet from a local election canvasser from PBP this evening which mentioned some pledge about the 4 route being cut from BusConnects.

It was written in Lola Hynes local election leaflet for the Blackrock ward. It said and I quote.

"Under the proposed 'Bus Connects' plan, the No.4 is to be axed. We want to retain the No.4 and see a bus connecting Newtown Park Avenue to Blackrock."

What does anyone think of that promise from PBP? I actually think they're a living in a cloud cuckoo land about retaining the 4 in this instance.

They are asking for something that could become unattainable if this plan is to secure a brand new public bus network for Dublin. If that route along with all of the others are not due to come back for the 2nd consultation planned for the autumn; well what is the point in asking for something that could be a potential hindrance by causing a conflict of interest in the whole plan. This change is a small one to itself from PBP. But it has a real danger of unravelling itself in how it tries to fit or not fit into the future aspect of the plan. The NTA & Jarret Walker have remarked on numerous occasions that if more than 15% of the network was changed in the next consultation. The plan could become a disaster by becoming unworkable. This type of plan is really a plan that sort of exceeds local politics if it addresses key concerns of the current bus network running around Dublin right now while trying to change it for the better.

It's not reliant on retaining packs of bus routes going into the City Centre. It is trying to do the opposite of that method at this present time by taking most of them out of the City Centre to enhance the future mobility & reliability of inhabitants of the city & around the GDA. It's attempting to radically change in how the bus service in Dublin is being run for the better for all citizens living in it. If a group like PBP had a detailed look at the plan over a considerable period of time and agree with other aspects of the plan like the stage fares being scrapped with a new fare structure that will allow you to have just 2 options for bus fares instead of having multiple stage fares in place & multiple fares for the Xpresso being scrapped while being integrated into the new proposed flat fare system.

One would have to ask here; would a group like PBP be fundamentally against something like that when eyeing for local election seats around Dublin this month?

You see the danger here is that fringe political groups or parties like PBP that are based in Dublin with being against BusConnects are increasing the likelihood of becoming a fundamental part of the problem in how this plan is meant to work for every Dubliner who is meant to use public transport options like the bus as one mode while combining it with other modes as an option when using them in our capital city & GDA in the future. To me PBP don't really try & understand the other core parts of using this plan like having flat fares on Leap Cards with a free 90 minutes transfer on other modes, how the CBC's are meant to work while bus lanes are being enhanced with bus shelters & bus poles being constructed with them & how it's meant to integrate it further with using newly built cycling infrastructure for the city.

PBP are awful. Even the most hardcore communists don’t like PBP. One of their current councillors and candidates keeps mentioning “saving” the 65b and 77a buses going around Killinarden, despite the fact both buses serve a disservice to Killinarden by going absolutely all over the world (the 77a’s loop around East Tallaght adds 30 minutes at least onto a trip into town). Additionally, the only reason the 77a serves Killinarden in the first place is because of Network Direct and the austerity measures of the recession, so they’re essentally supporting the maintenance of austerity.

PBP aren’t worth the effort.

cgcsb

Labour are also against this, in staunch right wing fashion.
And bizzarly the greens.

Our current centre-right government improving public transport and left fighting them on it, it's quite the farse really. Basically there are no principles, only 'if yer fer it, I'm agin' it'.

CatInABox

cgcsb wrote: »

Labour are also against this, in staunch right wing fashion.
And bizzarly the greens.

Our current centre-right government improving public transport and left fighting them on it, it's quite the farse really. Basically there are no principles, only 'if yer fer it, I'm agin' it'.

The absolute state of Irish politics. I think the one that took the biscuit for me was watching a centre-right/right party bring in a wealth tax (the property tax), and the centre-left/left parties fell over themselves to oppose it. A complete reversal of every other country in the world.

devnull

Got a leaflet through my door about taxpayers money being wasted on PR campaigns for BusConnects recently, apparently the NTA have 'wasted' almost €100k on getting the message out via adverting to combat myths.

The irony is that the kind of groups who are moaning about the spending of taxpayers money on advertising campaigns to debunk myths, are the same ones who were peddling the myths themselves, so maybe they should have a long hard look in the mirror as to the reasons why such spend was needed.

CatInABox

devnull wrote: »

Got a leaflet through my door about taxpayers money being wasted on PR campaigns for BusConnects recently, apparently the NTA have 'wasted' almost €100k on getting the message out via adverting to combat myths.

The irony is that the kind of groups who are moaning about the spending of taxpayers money on advertising campaigns to debunk myths, are the same ones who were peddling the myths themselves, so maybe they should have a long hard look in the mirror as to the reasons why such spend was needed.

They're also the ones that were complaining about a lack of consultation, and that people weren't told about it. Total jokers.

riddlinrussell

In more positive news local residents in Inchicore want their trees saved, but would prefer less space for cars and more for busconnects instead.

cgcsb

devnull wrote: »

Got a leaflet through my door about taxpayers money being wasted on PR campaigns for BusConnects recently, apparently the NTA have 'wasted' almost €100k on getting the message out via adverting to combat myths.

The irony is that the kind of groups who are moaning about the spending of taxpayers money on advertising campaigns to debunk myths, are the same ones who were peddling the myths themselves, so maybe they should have a long hard look in the mirror as to the reasons why such spend was needed.

the figure is also incorrect as it includes VAT, and is calculated incorrectly.

cgcsb

riddlinrussell wrote: »

In more positive news local residents in Inchicore want their trees saved, but would prefer less space for cars and more for busconnects instead.

Great to see, but I think half the NTA live in Inchicore these days.

Qrt

cgcsb wrote: »

Great to see, but I think half the NTA live in Inchicore these days.

...do they?

dublinman1990

I've just seen the petition against the proposals on the Rathfarnham to City Centre on Change.org.

https://www.change.org/p/leo-varadkar-stop-the-destruction-of-communities-by-busconnects-corridor-12?original_footer_petition_id=13114551&algorithm=promoted&source_location=petition_footer&grid_position=2&pt=AVBldGl0aW9uAA8p2wAAAAAAXNi2xn7jIT9iYzFjOWMwOA%3D%3D

What does anyone think of it. Do you think it will stand up to scrutiny?

Do some of these people live in those big mansions within Dublin 6?