Dublin - BusConnects

donvito99

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

To be honest, I've posted about it a lot before so there's no point in rehashing it all. But from both a moral level and a personal level it's awful.

I know that's a sin to say here if you worship at the altar of Jarret (or whatever his name is, can remember) but sometimes "buses > *" isn't the straight answer to everything.

I don't think anybody here would suggest what you've said, that buses are the answer to everything. That would just be another straw man trotted out by those opposing change, the best of which being the "why haven't you consulted the public?" protests in the midst of a public consultation...

L1011

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Stealing land that people have purchased and forcing them onto buses because they can no longer park their vehicle. A driveway they paid for by choice.

CPO is not stealing. If that is the basis of your argument I really don't want to know the rest of your apparent morals!

OldMrBrennan83

L1011 wrote: »

CPO is not stealing. If that is the basis of your argument I really don't want to know the rest of your apparent morals!

Of course it is. You just don't think it is in this case because it suits what you want.

Spanish Eyes

matrim wrote: »

To be fair these changes effect people in the areas closer to the city more. The people further out get more benefits without the changes to their area.

Those living further out will not get ANY benefits if those closer to town block it though.

OldMrBrennan83

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Those living further out will not get ANY benefits if those closer to town block it though.

I don't know about anyone else further out (not do I care, why would I?) but it's going to be an absolute disaster in D15. A dangerous one at that.

Spanish Eyes

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

I don't know about anyone else further out (not do I care, why would I?) but it's going to be an absolute disaster in D15. A dangerous one at that.

Why do you think that? I am sure you are concerned but what is the actual worry for you if you don't mind me asking. D15 has a train line. Many other suburbs have to rely solely on the oul bus!

OldMrBrennan83

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Why do you think that? I am sure you are concerned but what is the actual worry for you if you don't mind me asking. D15 has a train line. Many other suburbs have to rely solely on the oul bus!

Because at the moment I can get a bus in Dublin and get relatively near home. I do not want me, or anyone belonging to me, to have to get off a bus in Blanchardstown to wait for another bus and stand completely open. I don't want to change at all for such a short run, it's ridiculous as it's only 40 minutes as it is, but at night it's really roo dangerous. D15 is an absolute cesspit for muggings and antisocial behaviour.

Spanish Eyes

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Because at the moment I can get a bus in Dublin and get relatively near home. I do not want me, or anyone belonging to me, to have to get off a bus in Blanchardstown to wait for another bus and stand completely open. I don't want to change at all for such a short run, it's ridiculous as it's only 40 minutes as it is, but at night it's really roo dangerous. D15 is an absolute cesspit for muggings and antisocial behaviour.

Ah ok, I see your point about double jobbing on the bus with BC. But give it a go, I think there will be hubs with CCTV and shelters and seats and so on and very frequent connections.

D15 (Where Vlad lives!) cannot be any worse than other proposed hubs all around the outer suburbs.

Anyway my point was about those living within the canals objecting to anything that would improve commutes for those living further out. So selfish IMO.

OldMrBrennan83

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Ah ok, I see your point about double jobbing on the bus with BC. But give it a go, I think there will be hubs with CCTV and shelters and seats and so on and very frequent connections.

D15 (Where Vlad lives!) cannot be any worse than other proposed hubs all around the outer suburbs.

Anyway my point was about those living within the canals objecting to anything that would improve commutes for those living further out. So selfish IMO.

But that's all we've got since day one. Jarret will build this and Jarret will build that and everything will be great. But this is Ireland so in reality the timetable will change and nothing else will happen to support it, so all that'll end up happening is a centralised spot for robbing wallets and phones.

Spanish Eyes

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

But that's all we've got since day one. Jarret will build this and Jarret will build that and everything will be great. But this is Ireland so in reality the timetable will change and nothing else will happen to support it, so all that'll end up happening is a centralised spot for robbing wallets and phones.

You are making out that D15 is crime central. I doubt that it is. Have you experience of this happening say at Blanchardstown Shopping Centre, where as far as I know the major interchange (hub) will be?

Same could apply anywhere outside the canals in suburban hubs also.

BUT, those inside the canals seem to be blocking a lot of improvements for those further out. That is what is getting my goat right now.

cgcsb

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Stealing land that people have purchased and forcing them onto buses because they can no longer park their vehicle. A driveway they paid for by choice.

How would a modern state function without cpo? How would we have motorways or new linear infrastructure of any kind?

cgcsb

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

But that's all we've got since day one. Jarret will build this and Jarret will build that and everything will be great. But this is Ireland so in reality the timetable will change and nothing else will happen to support it, so all that'll end up happening is a centralised spot for robbing wallets and phones.

The primary cause of delay on these projects is people making spurious 'moral' objections like yourself. You are saying you oppose it because of inevitable delay as a direct result of you opposing it.

Zebra3

cgcsb wrote: »

How would a modern state function without cpo? How would we have motorways or new linear infrastructure of any kind?

CPOs are fine until they start effecting the well to do self-entitled FG urban types.

Qrt

Haven't gotten the chance to see it yet, but apparently there was discussion of BusConnects on Prime Time tonight. It's gotten me thinking, are the NTA and the fairly radical plans they have just a bluff of sorts? Like, this is what *could* be done to the area, but be *could* simply restrict car traffic – akin to a "start high" negotiation tactic.

loyatemu

Qrt wrote: »

Haven't gotten the chance to see it yet, but apparently there was discussion of BusConnects on Prime Time tonight. It's gotten me thinking, are the NTA and the fairly radical plans they have just a bluff of sorts? Like, this is what *could* be done to the area, but be *could* simply restrict car traffic – akin to a "start high" negotiation tactic.

there's talk of people chaining themselves to trees. Much harder to chain yourself to a traffic lane :pac:

This is going to run and run I think

Steve Allen

Was thinking similar. We could get rid of trees and take a bit of your garden, or we could just go one-way around the pinch points.

I'd prefer the full-on approach though. Lose a few trees and gardens and have major quality of life improvements for so many people

loyatemu

I'm all for reducing space for private cars, my fear is the cycling infrastructure will also be chopped where there are space constraints. It's called BusConnects, the cycle lanes are a bonus and may end up being expendable.

I seen some ribbons on trees on my way into work today while stuck on a bus in traffic, saying "save our trees from busconnect". You're hardly going to find sympathy from someone who is sitting in traffic in a one lane road. Absolute Nimbyism at its finest.

Sam Russell

I am very familiar with the Merrion Road from say the British Embassy down to Merrion Gates. There are red ribbons on every tree on the road with notices saying Save Our Trees.

Now, there is a bus lane going into town over the whole of that lemgth and a cycle lane on the way out. A few pinch points at the traffic lights and the cycle lane is lost (or narrowed to make it disappear). The lack of a cycle lane going into town means during congestion, the bus follows the cycles gown the bus lane going at whatever speed the cycle is going at, while the cars are stationary. In the evening, the bus sits in the stationary traffic while the inbound stuff wizzes by.

The plan. I assume, is to chop all these trees and put a cycle lane and bus lane in both directions, taking some gardens to achieve this.

Now an alternative would be to put, on the existing road, a bus lane in both directions with a single car lane in the middle. In the morning, the outbound bus lane is a car lane and the car lane in the middle is inbound. In the evening, the situation is reversed, with the inbound bus lane becomes a car lane and the other lanes are outbound.

Now an extra cycle lane would be needed, but beside that, this could work, at least as an experiment. Obviously, the switch over would need some signalling and some policing, but people would get used to it.

Any thoughts?

Qrt

Sam Russell wrote: »

I am very familiar with the Merrion Road from say the British Embassy down to Merrion Gates. There are red ribbons on every tree on the road with notices saying Save Our Trees.

Now, there is a bus lane going into town over the whole of that lemgth and a cycle lane on the way out. A few pinch points at the traffic lights and the cycle lane is lost (or narrowed to make it disappear). The lack of a cycle lane going into town means during congestion, the bus follows the cycles gown the bus lane going at whatever speed the cycle is going at, while the cars are stationary. In the evening, the bus sits in the stationary traffic while the inbound stuff wizzes by.

The plan. I assume, is to chop all these trees and put a cycle lane and bus lane in both directions, taking some gardens to achieve this.

Now an alternative would be to put, on the existing road, a bus lane in both directions with a single car lane in the middle. In the morning, the outbound bus lane is a car lane and the car lane in the middle is inbound. In the evening, the situation is reversed, with the inbound bus lane becomes a car lane and the other lanes are outbound.

Now an extra cycle lane would be needed, but beside that, this could work, at least as an experiment. Obviously, the switch over would need some signalling and some policing, but people would get used to it.

Any thoughts?

To me, it sounds like the best way. Like it or not, some of the corridors lie along very old and historical areas. Rathmines is fine because it's horrible anyway, so that would be a tremendous improvement, but others not so much. In my eyes, the people have two choices; keep the trees or keep the car access.

Anyway, even if some of the plans in the more contentious areas are scrapped, there would still be a tremendous improvement (Greenhills Road in particular).

loyatemu

Tidal roads or alternating bus-lanes are an option (I've seen them in operation in other cities) but a lot of the roads affected have heavy traffic in both directions during both rush-hours. e.g in the evening rush, you can't have buses getting delayed inbound on one side of the city because they have no priority if that route is cross-city and has to serve outbound passengers on the other side of the city.

The point of BusConnects is to provide reliability and predictable frequency, this won't work if there is still congestion and pinch-points along part of the route.

Hurrache

Deleted User wrote: »

I seen some ribbons on trees on my way into work today while stuck on a bus in traffic, saying "save our trees from busconnect". You're hardly going to find sympathy from someone who is sitting in traffic in a one lane road. Absolute Nimbyism at its finest.

I live nowhere near the proposed routes, but I certainly don't want trees removed to give space towards motor traffic.

Nimbyism, it's an easy and lazy comment to knock other people opinions.

cgcsb

One of the major submissions about the cbcs got me thinking:

Basically the jist of it was that the through car ban on Old Cabra road would result in all the car traffic being sent through Phibsboro. The submission took no account of modal shirt of traffic evapouration, but none the less a valid point was raised.

The cross roads in Phibsboro is a disaster for pedestrians and congestion here will likely impact the effectiveness of the O bus route.

My suggestion:
a short bus/bike gate on the NCR through this junction, from the spar shop to the barbers, narrow the road to 2 bus and 2 cycle lanes here and have bigger footpaths. Measures like this will have to be taken to ensure the timely running of the orbital buses anyway.

abcabc123123

loyatemu wrote: »

Tidal roads or alternating bus-lanes are an option (I've seen them in operation in other cities)

I'm unfamiliar with these, could you explain them to me?

Genuinely curious!

dublinman1990

I missed out on watching last night's Prime Time. I tried looking at RTÉ Player for it last night & to my disappointment the episode was taken down off the site. Did anyone have another link or keep a recording of it so I can watch it? I do know the trees that people are talking about from the proposed route for the B spine corridor from Nutley Lane into the City Centre via Merrion Rd & the RDS. I did see some of those signs placed on people's front gates outside their houses in the area opposite St Vincent's University Hospital.

Sam Russell

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I missed out on watching last night's Prime Time. I tried looking at RTÉ Player for it last night & to my disappointment the episode was taken down off the site. Did anyone have another link or keep a recording of it so I can watch it? I do know the trees that people are talking about from the proposed route for the B spine corridor from Nutley Lane into the City Centre via Merrion Rd & the RDS. I did see some of those signs placed on people's front gates outside their houses in the area opposite St Vincent's University Hospital.

The red ribbon placement was a political stunt by one of the FG candidates in the local elections.

dublinman1990

Sam Russell wrote: »

The red ribbon placement was a political stunt by one of the FG candidates in the local elections.

Ok. Do you know the name of this person?

matrim

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I missed out on watching last night's Prime Time. I tried looking at RTÉ Player for it last night & to my disappointment the episode was taken down off the site. Did anyone have another link or keep a recording of it so I can watch it? I do know the trees that people are talking about from the proposed route for the B spine corridor from Nutley Lane into the City Centre via Merrion Rd & the RDS. I did see some of those signs placed on people's front gates outside their houses in the area opposite St Vincent's University Hospital.

Showing for me now

Sam Russell

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Ok. Do you know the name of this person?

Of course, he was re-elected to DCC. I o not think I should name him, but I am sure a bit of google might tell you.

BonnieSituation

Sam Russell wrote: »

Of course, he was re-elected to DCC. I o not think I should name him, but I am sure a bit of google might tell you.

Why wouldn't you name him?