Dublin - BusConnects

citizen6

I didn't think the nimbys would contemplate giving up a car lane in one direction, but it sounds like they might to save the trees.

To sweeten the deal, the bus lane in the direction that has no car lane, could be a bus lane Mon-Fri 6am-11am and 4pm-8pm only. A lot of these people do much of their driving lunchtime and weekends anyway. So they'd still be able to turn both ways out of their driveways.

I think this is better than tidal lanes, which would be a hard sell politically because of the safety risks (perceived or otherwise).

cgcsb

citizen6 wrote: »

To sweeten the deal, the bus lane in the direction that has no car lane, could be a bus lane Mon-Fri 6am-11am and 4pm-8pm only. A lot of these people do much of their driving lunchtime and weekends anyway. So they'd still be able to turn both ways out of their driveways.

For me that'd be a no deal, that means downgrading the existing bus lanes.

Sam Russell

cgcsb wrote: »

For me that'd be a no deal, that means downgrading the existing bus lanes.

Well, no, because it means downgrading non-existent bus lanes.

We can do a lot of white paint jobs cheaply and quickly - I doubt that planning permission would be needed. When it works - great. We can get it to work better by a bit of structural work.

If we only start to do things when we can get the chain saws and the diggers out, it will never happen.

CatInABox

citizen6 wrote: »

I didn't think the nimbys would contemplate giving up a car lane in one direction, but it sounds like they might to save the trees.

To sweeten the deal, the bus lane in the direction that has no car lane, could be a bus lane Mon-Fri 6am-11am and 4pm-8pm only. A lot of these people do much of their driving lunchtime and weekends anyway. So they'd still be able to turn both ways out of their driveways.

I think this is better than tidal lanes, which would be a hard sell politically because of the safety risks (perceived or otherwise).

The problem with time limited bus lanes like that is that BusConnects and the core corridors project is meant to deliver an all day service, designed to get people to just turn up and go, no need to look at an app to figure out if a bus is on the way. Time limited bus lanes will reduce that, as some of those roads are congested all day long, not just in the morning and evening.

Sam Russell

CatInABox wrote: »

The problem with time limited bus lanes like that is that BusConnects and the core corridors project is meant to deliver an all day service, designed to get people to just turn up and go, no need to look at an app to figure out if a bus is on the way. Time limited bus lanes will reduce that, as some of those roads are congested all day long, not just in the morning and evening.

Yes, but if we wait for perfect, we will never get anything. Let us start with something towards good, then improve to better, and ultimately hope for perfect.

Qrt

Irish Times reporting that BusConnects may be done in phases. Given their lacklustre reporting of the whole scheme, I don’t know if they’re talking about the network redesign or the CRC scheme (which was going to be done in phases anyway)

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/retrofit-homes-through-higher-property-tax-or-electricity-bills-plan-1.3927634?mode=amp

cgcsb

They claim the network redesign. Hard to imagine how, given the degree of interconnection required.
The climate report today waxed lyrical about electric cars and taxing straws. No mention of the massive energy inefficiency of single occupant vehicles, electric or not, and an outright ban on plastic straws and other items wasn't considered.

Qrt

cgcsb wrote: »

They claim the network redesign. Hard to imagine how, given the degree of interconnection required.
The climate report today waxed lyrical about electric cars and taxing straws. No mention of the massive energy inefficiency of single occupant vehicles, electric or not, and an outright ban on plastic straws and other items wasn't considered.

Well an outright ban on plastic straws is going to do f*** all, and some restaurants’ individual policies are already wreaking havoc with some disabled people. The furthest we can/should go really is an “on request” model.

Sam Russell

I was thinking that the Blessington lakes and Poulaphouca project could not possibly work today because of all the objections that would be lodged against it.

Trees, cars, or buses, choose two.

loyatemu

Sam Russell wrote: »

I was thinking that the Blessington lakes and Poulaphouca project could not possibly work today because of all the objections that would be lodged against it.

Trees, cars, or buses, choose two.

I was saying on another thread that we could use a few more pumped hydro power stations like Turlough Hill, but they probably wouldn't be able to build that one today as it involved knocking the top off a mountain.

dublinman1990

Oh really. I don't know what Jarrett Walker will say about that because his recommendation will be to redesign the whole network in one go. He had said in the past, more notably on his web blog, during the first phase of consultation that changing parts of the current bus network into part of the new system should not be recommended because it will be too complex to do it other than completing it in one go.

I also noticed something very odd when I was heading up to my local Dunnes Stores this evening. Two bus shelters, one outside Marion Park (46E) & the one at Newtown Park (46E, 114) in Blackrock have had the middle of the shelters along with their timetables removed. They both have red & white tape marked in an X shape in the middle of them. It looked very odd because I don't know if it's something related to BusConnects or not. If they weren't removed by the crowd in the NTA; the shelters could have been vandalized recently. Can anyone shed some info to me on that please; TIA?

devnull

Confirmation today that the revised network when implemented will be done on a phased basis and not the big bang philosophy as advocated by Jarrett Walker will not be followed.

Implementation dates for the new network has now been pushed back and is expected to happen between January 2021 and December 2023 with planning to take place in 2020.

jd

devnull wrote: »

Confirmation today that the revised network when implemented will be done on a phased basis and not the big bang philosophy as advocated by Jarrett Walker will not be followed.
.

I wonder will he wash his hands of it and walk away?

matrim

Started to notice extended bus lane times around the city today. Some people in my area are trying to blame busconnect but I'd guess it's unrelated as it's to early for anything from the the consultation to get implemented

AndrewJRenko

Sam Russell wrote: »

I fit buses with evidential cameras so offenders get the dreaded letter in the post.

If they took this action tomorrow, of actually enforcing bus lanes and ticketing the mostly commercial traffic that frequently blocks bus lanes on routes like Rathmines through Camden / Wexford / Aungier / George's St, this would dramatically improve bus times.

markpb

matrim wrote: »

Started to notice extended bus lane times around the city today. Some people in my area are trying to blame busconnect but I'd guess it's unrelated as it's to early for anything from the the consultation to get implemented

Navan road?

cgcsb

Through Drumcondra as far as Whiteall are now Mon-Sun, but of course the bus lane was chockers with cars on Sunday.

CatInABox

Without enforcement, these bus lanes will always fill up. The guards need to be told that traffic enforcement is a vital part of their job, or it should be outsourced. Even then, there should be more protected bus lanes, like the one at Whitehall junction, that's pretty much solved the problem there.

Even better would be to make getting caught in a bus lane a 1 penalty point offence, that'd stop people chancing their arm pretty quickly.

devnull

CatInABox wrote: »

Without enforcement, these bus lanes will always fill up. The guards need to be told that traffic enforcement is a vital part of their job, or it should be outsourced. Even then, there should be more protected bus lanes, like the one at Whitehall junction, that's pretty much solved the problem there.

Even better would be to make getting caught in a bus lane a 1 penalty point offence, that'd stop people chancing their arm pretty quickly.

That's never going to happen in Ireland unfortunately.

The attitude of the Garda to traffic offences is very poor, literally 90% of the time I see one, if an eyelid is battered then they will be given a few words and told not to do it again and will do the same thing further up the road or the following day and a different Garda will see them and nothing will be done.

The trouble with traffic offences is there is far too much discretion being used when there should be a lot more zero tolerance. If the Garda don't do it we should get a third party to do so, and incentivise them for every person that they catch. I do realise though this is unlikely to happen so it's all fantasy.

cgcsb

Gardaí cannot be relied upon for this job, too corrupt and poorly trained, lots of them don't seem to know the rules of the road. ANPR cameras with AI administering fines is the only way.

abcabc123123

devnull wrote: »

Confirmation today that the revised network when implemented will be done on a phased basis and not the big bang philosophy as advocated by Jarrett Walker will not be followed.

Implementation dates for the new network has now been pushed back and is expected to happen between January 2021 and December 2023 with planning to take place in 2020.

Isn't the big bang approach kind of integral to the system? How are radial routes, interchanges going to work if only part of the system is there?

crushproof

devnull wrote: »

Confirmation today that the revised network when implemented will be done on a phased basis and not the big bang philosophy as advocated by Jarrett Walker will not be followed.

Implementation dates for the new network has now been pushed back and is expected to happen between January 2021 and December 2023 with planning to take place in 2020.

Boom, that's it done now. Push back, push back...eventually cancellation. The feckless gombeen local politcians and NIMBYs have got their way, would not blame Jarrett Walker if he walks away from this fiasco. Despite all the work he's done around the world I doubt he's ever had to cross paths with such small minded folk.

Once again my blood boils at the ineptitude of getting things done in this country but there is nothing that me or others on this forum can do because I've come to realise that those who want to see a positive change in Dublin are not listened to :mad::mad::mad:

devnull

crushproof wrote: »

Boom, that's it done now. Push back, push back...eventually cancellation. The feckless gombeen local politcians and NIMBYs have got their way, would not blame Jarrett Walker if he walks away from this fiasco. Despite all the work he's done around the world I doubt he's ever had to cross paths with such small minded folk.

Once again my blood boils at the ineptitude of getting things done in this country but there is nothing that me or others on this forum can do because I've come to realise that those who want to see a positive change in Dublin are not listened to :mad::mad::mad:

The sadness is that for all the complaining about poor public trasnport in this country and the improvements it needs, the whole BusConnects saga has shown that whilst there are a good number of people who want to see us have a transport system like our friends and colleagues in Europe, there are many people in society who do not wish for the change to enable that to happen because it would upset the status quo and they are frightened of change and local politicians know that and have used it as a vote buyer by whiping up fury.

Ireland will get what it deserves, this country has been crying out for something like BusConnects and we have waited such a long time for a plan like this to be proposed, the city badly needs it, but at the end of the day, as a country we have not displayed a big enough understanding of the problems and the things that need to change to fix them.

I do not see public transport in Dublin ever matching the best places in Europe. The mindset among the car users and the save our tree campaigners and the trade unions and the media are going to shout it down and prevent it from happening. There are people with good intentions who want to improve things here, but sadly they have been heavily shot down.

thequarefellow

I'm disgusted that they are going to have to cut down trees here in Clongriffin but I also support initiatives to increase public transport.

devnull

thequarefellow wrote: »

I'm disgusted that they are going to have to cut down trees here in Clongriffin but I also support initiatives to increase public transport.

Unfortunately in a lot of areas there isn't room to give good priority to public transport to make it more attractive as well as keeping current levels of private motor vehicles and current level of trees so something has to give.

The real story here is that public transport comes last for a lot of the campaigners against BusConnects, not just after trees but after the private car as well, many of them have problems with a handful of buses an hour extra running down their road but see no issue with hundreds of cars....

CatInABox

devnull wrote: »

Confirmation today that the revised network when implemented will be done on a phased basis and not the big bang philosophy as advocated by Jarrett Walker will not be followed.

Implementation dates for the new network has now been pushed back and is expected to happen between January 2021 and December 2023 with planning to take place in 2020.

Where's the confirmation, by the way, I only see the entry in the climate plan, which, to be honest, is pretty vague. It could be refering to the BusConnects plans for Galway and Cork.

Qrt

CatInABox wrote: »

Where's the confirmation, by the way, I only see the entry in the climate plan, which, to be honest, is pretty vague. It could be refering to the BusConnects plans for Galway and Cork.

I thought that too. Neither do we have a history of adhering to deadlines set out in reports. I'm not writing it off just yet, but preparing myself for the likelihood.

LXFlyer

abcabc123123 wrote: »

Isn't the big bang approach kind of integral to the system? How are radial routes, interchanges going to work if only part of the system is there?

Depends on how much interchanging the revised plan includes.

I suspect we will see significantly less - the Taoiseach’s own comments in the Dáil last year suggested that was going to have to be significantly changed.

Nothing to stop this being implemented in phases in the same way Network Direct happened - the key to this in my view will be the additional orbital and local services.

cgcsb

thequarefellow wrote: »

I'm disgusted that they are going to have to cut down trees here in Clongriffin but I also support initiatives to increase public transport.

Where's this coming from? plans don't show any tree cutting or even road widening in Clongriffin.

Sam Russell

I think that first:

1: Enforce existing bus lanes on a zero tolerance basis.

2: Extend operating times for bus lanes as much as can be within reason.

3: Make 'No Parking' the default for bus lanes - certainly within the 7am to 7pm times. Put 'Clear Ways' in important bus lanes.

4: Extend bus lanes where it can be done such that cars are restricted to just one lane.

5: Disallow right turns where they have a detrimental effect on traffic flow, and enforce them. Put the No Right Turn sign on the road as well as on the pole.

6: ANPR cameras should be deployed for all traffic flow based offences.

That is all before bus connects kicks in at all.