Dublin - BusConnects

Vicarious Function

Allowance has to be made for cyclists. Braemor Road in Churchtown D. 14, is a lovely example. The Road has been made over some years ago, before all of this Bus Connect happened. On both sides there are pedestrian and cycle lanes with one one lane going both ways for motor and bus traffic. Works a treat.

Grassey

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Allowance has to be made for cyclists. Braemor Road in Churchtown D. 14, is a lovely example. The Road has been made over some years ago, before all of this Bus Connect happened. On both sides there are pedestrian and cycle lanes with one one lane going both ways for motor and bus traffic. Works a treat.

Until a bus pulls into the shared bike lane / bus stop to pick up passengers, or cars use the bike lane as a filter lane to beat the 'traffic' before lanes split at supervalu, or builders use the cycle lane for parking etc.

It's far better design than a lot of what's been thrown in around the area, but it's still not perfect.

Sam Russell

Grassey wrote: »

Until a bus pulls into the shared bike lane / bus stop to pick up passengers, or cars use the bike lane as a filter lane to beat the 'traffic' before lanes split at supervalu, or builders use the cycle lane for parking etc.

It's far better design than a lot of what's been thrown in around the area, but it's still not perfect.

Enforcement, enforcement, enforcement - best three ideas for sorting most of that out.

devnull

Sam Russell wrote: »

Enforcement, enforcement, enforcement - best three ideas for sorting most of that out.

Sadly that's one thing we are terrible atas a country, too much discretion in the Garda and not enough zero tolerenace means motorists will do it again and again and again as there basically is next to no chance of really getting any kind of meaningful punishment.

I agree wityh you that it should happen, but there has to be a sea change in attitude in society and the Garda for it to become a reality and I just cannot see it happening as much as it pains me to say it. I've been bleating on about traffic offences for years now and made numerous complaints and sweet FA is done.

TimeToShine

dublinman1990 wrote: »

There was more talk from an article from The Sunday Independent today which spoke to Associate Professor of Geography at UCD; Professor Gerald Mills. He talked about the number of trees likely to be axed by the BusConnects CBC proposals across Dublin. He had made a graphic which showed the numbers of trees currently up & the number of cars along all of these corridors made from a satellite image of Dublin.



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/thousands-of-trees-may-be-axed-for-bus-connects-routes-warns-professor-38222651.html

The numbers look bad but 2000 tonnes of CO2 is chump change, Moneypoint spits out that much in a couple of hours running at full output.

Phoebas

TimeToShine wrote: »

The numbers look bad but 2000 tonnes of CO2 is chump change, Moneypoint spits out that much in a couple of hours running at full output.

Those are a count of the trees along the route, not a count to be removed.
Someone just used Google maps to count each tree.

Vicarious Function

Grassey wrote: »

Until a bus pulls into the shared bike lane / bus stop to pick up passengers, or cars use the bike lane as a filter lane to beat the 'traffic' before lanes split at supervalu, or builders use the cycle lane for parking etc.

It's far better design than a lot of what's been thrown in around the area, but it's still not perfect.

Of course it's not perfect, but it's a great improvement on what was there before.

Where i live now has a long straight road with two traffic lanes and two footpaths - no cycle lanes. It's a nightmare during rush hour when a lot of cyclists are heading home. While trying to give them space, you're pulling out into oncoming traffic. There is talk that Bus Connect has this road in mind for change. There are big gardens and lots of trees both sides. If it finishes up like Braemor Road, that would not be bad.

Markcheese

Enforcement is going to be key to this working, and who ever is actually in charge of operating the bus connects system needs to be over enforcement, dedicated tow trucks," patrolling" the lanes and bus stops and cameras to police people driving in the lanes.. Could end up being self funding...

Markcheese

How feasible would it be to have the actual bus lanes up the middle of the road, with access to platforms at the stop, by traffic lights at appropriate spots.. (possible off set from each other)
This could help to give a more continuous lane, stop cars crossing into the lane before junctions.. And if the connects lane was segregated by a dividing barrier or something. the bus lanes could be narrower..

L1011

Markcheese wrote: »

How feasible would it be to have the actual bus lanes up the middle of the road, with access to platforms at the stop, by traffic lights at appropriate spots.. (possible off set from each other)
This could help to give a more continuous lane, stop cars crossing into the lane before junctions.. And if the connects lane was segregated by a dividing barrier or something. the bus lanes could be narrower..

Feasible but not going to reduce lane take at all - it would increase it at stops even

Stephen15

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I did feel for the man who had to commute from Tallaght to Finglas in heavy traffic. Would there a few people about who have to do would do a 4 hour commute as a most extreme example when getting to work in & around Dublin? What bus routes could he take that would experience the most heaviest traffic levels when he commutes to those two areas in the morning & evening time?

I have to say and don't want to be ridiculed for saying it but Tallaght to Finglas is probably only less than an hours commute on the M50. While public transport is always the best option for a radial commute doing a long distance orbital commute is not sustainable right now. If I was that man I would be looking at buying a car and/or driving lessons.

I would consider myself very pro public transport but I do own a car and will use whichever method is most efficient for the journey I am doing.

Stephen15

Markcheese wrote: »

How feasible would it be to have the actual bus lanes up the middle of the road, with access to platforms at the stop, by traffic lights at appropriate spots.. (possible off set from each other)
This could help to give a more continuous lane, stop cars crossing into the lane before junctions.. And if the connects lane was segregated by a dividing barrier or something. the bus lanes could be narrower..

The main problem with bus lanes segregated by a physical barrier is that while other road users can't go into bus lanes. Buses that do not need to stop can't overtake buses stopped to pick up or drop off passengers.

BonnieSituation

Stephen15 wrote: »

I have to say and don't want to be ridiculed for saying it but Tallaght to Finglas is probably only less than an hours commute on the M50. While public transport is always the best option for a radial commute doing a long distance orbital commute is not sustainable right now. If I was that man I would be looking at buying a car and/or driving lessons.

I would consider myself very pro public transport but I do own a car and will use whichever method is most efficient for the journey I am doing.

The point is that Tallaght to Finglas should be more efficient via PT.

Hurrache

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The point is that Tallaght to Finglas should be more efficient via PT.

It never will be unless they add bus lanes to the M50.

Last Stop

Hurrache wrote: »

It never will be unless they add bus lanes to the M50.

Or build metro west!!

The orbital routes are the biggest problem in Dublin and will continue to be so after Busconnects. Blanchardstown to Airport is a case in point.

While I’m all for PT and resent the NIMBY attitude towards Busconnects, the more I look at it, the more flaws I see. At €20m per km it isn’t cheap and you could make a far greater impact with more Luas for the same overall price. It appears that the NTA are trying to do with buses something not attempted anywhere else in the world and history won’t look to kindly on it. Yes bus lanes are good but 200km of them when 60km of trams would have a far greater impact. There’s sustainable transport and then there’s complete coverkill to support a relatively inefficient form of transport. A tram carries 3-4 times more passengers for only 2x the price. It’s a no brainier

Sam Russell

I was in College Green this evening about 5 pm and there was a complete block of traffic going towards Nasseau St and coming from Nassau St, including a tram caught up in it. Nothing was moving, and most of the jam was buses.

Why would this be?

Zebra3

Ridiculously long dwell times?

CatInABox

Zebra3 wrote: »

Ridiculously long dwell times?

I'd assume that it's the fact that Luas and Bus are competing for the same stretch of road in that area. Anyone that says more Luas is the solution has to answer which roads in the city centre would be closed off, because that's what it would take.

Peregrine

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-s-bus-network-redesign-to-be-carried-out-over-phased-basis-1.3930058?mode=amp

This is exactly how the network redesign shouldn't be implemented. Looks like the political pressure is destroying the project.

devnull

Peregrine wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-s-bus-network-redesign-to-be-carried-out-over-phased-basis-1.3930058?mode=amp

This is exactly how the network redesign shouldn't be implemented. Looks like the political pressure is destroying the project.

looks like the disinformation campaign run by the NBRU has paid off and the scaremongering carried out by local politicans has worked out well for them.

Very disappointing and you can't see someone trying it again anytime soon. People have been calling for such project for a long time but when we try to put it into reality it shows people still don't understand the change needed to give us a proper bus network.

And sorry to say it but there is a lot of society that doesn't want one or make any concessions to get one. We will get the system we deserve unfortunately. We moan but too many resist the necessary change to improve.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

looks like the disinformation campaign run by the NBRU has paid off and the scaremongering carried out by local politicans has worked out well for them.

Very disappointing and you can't see someone trying it again anytime soon. People have been calling for such project for a long time but when we try to put it into reality it shows people still don't understand the change needed to give us a proper bus network.

And sorry to say it but there is a lot of society that doesn't want one or make any concessions to get one. We will get the system we deserve unfortunately. We moan but too many resist the necessary change to improve.

Without the required infrastructure investment being in place beforehand, putting in a revised network that involved mandatory changes to get to/from the city at mid-points was in my view going to be very difficult to deliver, especially for those relying on low frequency services, where if the connection was missed, a long wait that people don’t currently have would ensue.

Many outer suburbs (including my own and, indeed, the Airport) would actually see the service to/from the city significantly reduced, including at peak time. While well intentioned, the planned service levels were never going to work. My own bus route has seen user numbers increase dramatically, yet this plan had it cut in frequency.

While corridors might have decent frequencies at inner points, many outer suburbs would see service levels drop. That’s an almost impossible sell to people, many of whom would have bought their homes on foot of the public transport availability.

The original draft of the plan involved reallocating buses from routes through the city to develop new local and orbital routes, which I might add are absolutely necessary.

Given the rapid increases in user numbers that isn’t going to work any more. I suspect that this will now mean that there will have a larger expansion of the fleet than planned to deliver those additional orbital and local routes, while broadly maintaining the existing direct links to/from the city.

The writing was on the wall for the original plan for me once An Taoiseach said in the Dáil late last year that he had said to Anne Graham that the plan had to be redesigned, and redesigned significantly (his words). That said to me that the notion of mass forced interchanges in place of existing direct routes to/from the city centre was dead.

I think you’ll see a phased redesign implementation similar to Network Direct, albeit increasing services this time, which is feasible to do. It’s just not going to be based on removing direct connections to/from the city as much as the original plan did.

CatInABox

Peregrine wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-s-bus-network-redesign-to-be-carried-out-over-phased-basis-1.3930058?mode=amp

This is exactly how the network redesign shouldn't be implemented. Looks like the political pressure is destroying the project.

In fairness, the Auckland network redesign was rolled out over the course of three years, so it's not unprecedented.

See here.

The Auckland redesign is considered a success as well, so the NTA may have been looking at it while agreeing to the phased introduction.

Phil.x

Rip bus connects.

Markcheese

Hurrache wrote: »

It never will be unless they add bus lanes to the M50.

Either introduce hard shoulder running on the M50(for dedicated buses only) , with segregated stops at each fly over.
Ór nick a lane from the traffic, or a combination..

Markcheese

Stephen15 wrote: »

The main problem with bus lanes segregated by a physical barrier is that while other road users can't go into bus lanes. Buses that do not need to stop can't overtake buses stopped to pick up or drop off passengers.

I suppose it depends on what the bus lane is for.. If its a "stopping service" then fine, if express buses are using it, not so great... I dont really think taxis should be in bus lanes anyway,
I could imagine that a physical barrier would cause issues crossing the road for residents though,

Pete_Cavan

Does the phased implementation refer to the infrastructure works, the changes to services (routes, frequency, etc.) or both?

Will the works to roads as described in the recent consultation materials remain broadly the same (taking account of submissions/political interference) or are we back to square one there as well?

cgcsb

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Does the phased implementation refer to the infrastructure works, the changes to services (routes, frequency, etc.) or both?

Will the works to roads as described in the recent consultation materials remain broadly the same (taking account of submissions/political interference) or are we back to square one there as well?

The changes to services which makes it unfeasible. The infrastructure was always going to be phased. But now, neither is likely to happen. We're back to square one and there's a tight budget coming for 2020 so, that's MetroLink off the table also

Hurrache

Markcheese wrote: »

Either introduce hard shoulder running on the M50(for dedicated buses only)

It's madness to have buses use the hard shoulder, for reasons of safety and the fact you'll just have cars pulling in behind and following them.

Zebra3

What’s now the bus lane on the N4 used to be the hard shoulder.

Doesn’t cause any issues. Solves a lot.

Hurrache

The N4 is not a motorway.