Dublin - BusConnects

CatInABox

Qrt wrote: »

It’s a bit ironic to say the heart and soul of Templeogue Village will be lost considering the main pub is called The Morgue.

Also, she runs a fecking decor store, not a community centre. I can't facepalm enough reading some of this ****e.

donvito99

Her name is Van Loon, this is peak communities not corridors.

Templeogue is a tip of car traffic.

blanch152

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Strongly disagreeing with you here simply because you may be underestimating just how far €2bn would stretch for cycling.

When the NI minister for transport announced a network of greenways criss-crossing the entirety of Northern Ireland the total outlay was 600 million for the whole thing (Obviously city costs are greater but given the minuscule land take comparatively for good cycling provision...).

Spending 2 billion on a Dublin cycle network would utterly transform how people get around the city, if done following a Dutch model. You'd be talking about being able to fully segregate every core corridor, many feeder corridors, high quality greenways through most parks.
Cost to benefit cycling is WAY out in front of the others, I'm not suggesting it would suit all people and obviously a strong public transport network is a must to compliment cycling, but if we ever had €2 billion to play with for cycling the city would be radically different.

Cycling is predominantly for the young, the fit and the mostly male.

Every equality agenda screams for the prioritising of accessible public transport infrastructure ahead of cycling infrastructure.

tom1ie

blanch152 wrote: »

Cycling is predominantly for the young, the fit and the mostly male.

Every equality agenda screams for the prioritising of accessible public transport infrastructure ahead of cycling infrastructure.

Cycling gets you fit.
cycling can be used to commute that last mile after the workhorses of pt (bus, luas, heavy rail) get you within a mile of your workplace/home.
you are correct that 3 out of 4 cyclist are male.
define young?

Sam Russell

tom1ie wrote: »

Cycling gets you fit.
cycling can be used to commute that last mile after the workhorses of pt (bus, luas, heavy rail) get you within a mile of your workplace/home.
you are correct that 3 out of 4 cyclist are male.
define young?

People who wear shorts when cycling.

Zebra3

blanch152 wrote: »

Cycling is predominantly for the young, the fit and the mostly male.

Every equality agenda screams for the prioritising of accessible public transport infrastructure ahead of cycling infrastructure.

If that’s the situation it’s because of the intimidation cyclists face on the roads from motorists.

So let’s bring about equality and allow as many as possible to use their commuting time for an environmentally friendly, cheap, and fitness benefiting way of getting to and from their work places/colleges etc.

Last Stop

tom1ie wrote: »

Cycling gets you fit.
cycling can be used to commute that last mile after the workhorses of pt (bus, luas, heavy rail) get you within a mile of your workplace/home.
you are correct that 3 out of 4 cyclist are male.
define young?

Completely agree but to allow cycling he the last mile mode of transport, we need to invest in the public transport to get you to that last mile. The post was in reply to a suggestion that it would be more beneficial to invest in cycling than trams when in reality it wouldn’t.
Again not knocking cycling but there are some people here who think that everyone should be cycling the Tour de France to get to work because they like to cycle. The majority (I.e. the 90% who don’t cycle) would much rather investment in efficient public transport in the form or Luas or bus etc. My argument is that with Luas you get better bang for your buck.

Last Stop

Zebra3 wrote: »

If that’s the situation it’s because of the intimidation cyclists face on the roads from motorists.

So let’s bring about equality and allow as many as possible to use their commuting time for an environmentally friendly, cheap, and fitness benefiting way of getting to and from their work places/colleges etc.

No it’s because of a number of factors such as distance, appropriate facilities either side, age, dropping kids to school etc etc. Blaming motorists is a lazy out when there are a significant number of commutes which have fully segregated cycle lanes along their entire length and yet only 10% of people choose to cycle.

Zebra3

Last Stop wrote: »

No it’s because of a number of factors such as distance, appropriate facilities either side, age, dropping kids to school etc etc. Blaming motorists is a lazy out when there are a significant number of commutes which have fully segregated cycle lanes along their entire length and yet only 10% of people choose to cycle.

Blaming motorists is a lazy out?

Have a look at the death toll for cyclists.

Last Stop

Zebra3 wrote: »

Blaming motorists is a lazy out?

Have a look at the death toll for cyclists.

But motorists aren’t the only reason why people aren’t cycling as you imply.

LeinsterDub

Last Stop wrote: »

But motorists aren’t the only reason why people aren’t cycling as you imply.

Motorist are the primary reasons people don't cycle. Either because they are being a lazy motorist and driving 2 km or are driving like dicks

Last Stop

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Motorist are the primary reasons people don't cycle. Either because they are being a lazy motorist and driving 2 km or are driving like dicks

There is absolutely no evidence to back up that opinion and to be perfectly honest I’d go as far as saying that is completely bull****.

This is the big problem with cyclists, they give out all day long about motorists which isn’t going to change anything instead of complaining about the real problems such as why the dublinbikes scheme hasn’t been expanded at anywhere near the rate it should have given its incredible success.

LeinsterDub

Last Stop wrote: »

There is absolutely no evidence to back up that opinion and to be perfectly honest I’d go as far as saying that is completely bull****.

This is the big problem with cyclists, they give out all day long about motorists which isn’t going to change anything instead of complaining about the real problems such as why the dublinbikes scheme hasn’t been expanded at anywhere near the rate it should have given its incredible success.

Which part? That our infrastructure is hostile to cycling. That's fairly self evident as for the second part https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451%3fmode=amp

Last Stop

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Which part? That our infrastructure is hostile to cycling. That's fairly self evident as for the second part https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451%3fmode=amp

Ahhh so you’re bringing infrastructure into it now. So it’s not just motorists. I’m guessing there are other factors to blame too except the fact that a significant number of people don’t like to cycle for whatever reason. Because of this, if we are to seriously reduce congestion we need to invest in public transport and bringing this whole thing back on topic, trams are a far more efficient way of doing that than buses.

Seth Brundle

Zebra3 wrote: »

Blaming motorists is a lazy out?

Have a look at the death toll for cyclists.

Why did those cyclists die?

Last Stop wrote: »

Ahhh so you’re bringing infrastructure into it now. So it’s not just motorists. I’m guessing there are other factors to blame too except the fact that a significant number of people don’t like to cycle for whatever reason. Because of this, if we are to seriously reduce congestion we need to invest in public transport and bringing this whole thing back on topic, trams are a far more efficient way of doing that than buses.

The infrastructure is designed for the car.
Many motorists incorrectly believe that cyclists have no right to be on the road ahead of them and will drive dangerously when passing the cyclist (for example).
Cycling is an activity that should suit most people who choose to do so. However, many are deterred because they view it as unsafe when mixed with traffic.
Public transport improvements are definitley needed but we should in no way be prioritising the car over PT or bicycles (which has been the case to date).

Muahahaha

The Indo is doing a whole series this week on criticising Bus Connects via 'concerned residents'. Todays installment is an architect who recently bought a house on the Crumlin Road who suggests narrowing the footpaths rather than CPOing gardens

Albert Tobin and his fiancée bought their house on Crumlin Road before any rumblings of Bus Connects. Mr Tobin, an architect, says he and his partner cycle everywhere. Under the Bus Connects plans, the young couple will lose about two metres of their front garden. "It equates to about 32 square metres to the front of the house," Mr Tobin said.

There is also one "nice" tree on the Crumlin Road, a cherry blossom - which sits right outside his house. "We are new to the area, we love the area. It's a great place to live," he said."Would we have bought if the garden was two metres shorter originally? Probably. But would we have bought if it had been on the side of a four-lane road? No. It's going to go from a busy two-lane road to a four-lane motorway."

Mr Tobin believes an extra bus lane could fit on the Crumlin Road without any land acquisition."If we rationalised the land, reduced footpath widths, it could be done," he said. "Public transport in the city needs to be upgraded, nobody objects to that. If they had said we are putting a Luas line outside your house, it would have been easier to stomach."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bus-connects-its-going-from-a-busy-twolane-road-to-a-motorway-38490999.html

He says he and his wife cycle everywhere yet BusConnects will give them cycle lanes all over the city. Would also imagine the CPO compensation would come in very handy for a new house owner to help do upgrades or pay down the big mortgage.

Anyway its seems the Indo have a hard on for this now. We will ever get to see one of these real life articles about a couple who live further out and are spending ages on slow moving buses stuck in traffic every day? Or is it just the people who are living around the canals who matter?

Peregrine

There's one coming up about commuters with some positive views in it.

Looks like they're leading with the sob stories though.

CatInABox

There is also one "nice" tree on the Crumlin Road, a cherry blossom - which sits right outside his house. "We are new to the area, we love the area. It's a great place to live," he said."Would we have bought if the garden was two metres shorter originally? Probably. But would we have bought if it had been on the side of a four-lane road? No. It's going to go from a busy two-lane road to a four-lane motorway."

It's this ****e that really gets me. Thanks to the improvement in the bus service enabled by those bus lanes, coupled with the reduction in cars due to car restrictions along the route, there'll almost certainly be less vehicles going past their house.

Zebra3

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Why did those cyclists die?

From injuries attained after being hit by motor vehicles.

LeinsterDub

Last Stop wrote: »

Ahhh so you’re bringing infrastructure into it now. So it’s not just motorists. I’m guessing there are other factors to blame too except the fact that a significant number of people don’t like to cycle for whatever reason. Because of this, if we are to seriously reduce congestion we need to invest in public transport and bringing this whole thing back on topic, trams are a far more efficient way of doing that than buses.

I never said it was just motorist. A lot of people like to cycle and don't like driving does that mean we never invest in roads?

Thelonious Monk

blanch152 wrote: »

Cycling is predominantly for the young, the fit and the mostly male.

Every equality agenda screams for the prioritising of accessible public transport infrastructure ahead of cycling infrastructure.

My 66 year old mother and 69 year old father regularly go on 20 or 30km cycles on normal bikes in normal clothes. They're not particularly into fitness or anything either and live like normal people like a few drinks etc.

Anyway. Bus connects or metro wont happen. The majority seem to want to be able to drive their cars anywhere at any time. I've accepted this now. At this stage I'm thinking the best thing for pedestrians and cyclists is to keep allowing more and more cars to clog the streets until it gets so bad they can barely move. Total gridlock means less chance of being hit by a car!

Zebra3

It is not a majority that want to drive their car anywhere any time.

It’s a minority who have been given a disproportionate amount of publicity and who have politicians bending over backwards to accommodate them and their bs.

sharper

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyway its seems the Indo have a hard on for this now. We will ever get to see one of these real life articles about a couple who live further out and are spending ages on slow moving buses stuck in traffic every day? Or is it just the people who are living around the canals who matter?

Not sure why they need multiple articles on it on the same day either

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bus-connects-id-lose-my-lovely-greenery-and-have-traffic-flying-past-my-windows-38490997.html

You'll notice you could park a bus in the space the steps to her house take up...

"Why is everything aimed at being on the road? Nothing is about taking things off the road," she added.

Dyr

Zebra3 wrote: »

From injuries attained after being hit by motor vehicles.

Can you throw up the figures for cycling deaths for Dublin in the last 2-3 years?

Thelonious Monk

Zebra3 wrote: »

It is not a majority that want to drive their car anywhere any time.

It’s a minority who have been given a disproportionate amount of publicity and who have politicians bending over backwards to accommodate them and their bs.

Well there you have it. It's always been the same way. It's not going to change. Life is too short, I'm 40 next year so I prob have another max 20 years of commuting by bike or public transport. It is not going to improve. I've accepted that.

tom1ie

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

My 66 year old mother and 69 year old father regularly go on 20 or 30km cycles on normal bikes in normal clothes. They're not particularly into fitness or anything either and live like normal people like a few drinks etc.

Anyway. Bus connects or metro wont happen. The majority seem to want to be able to drive their cars anywhere at any time. I've accepted this now. At this stage I'm thinking the best thing for pedestrians and cyclists is to keep allowing more and more cars to clog the streets until it gets so bad they can barely move. Total gridlock means less chance of being hit by a car!

I think metro will happen, however it won’t involve the upgrade of the green line Luas due to the nimbys and social elitists in rathgar.
Bus connects in crumlin , templeogue, terenure, rathmines, Rathfarnham, is dead in the water.
Bus connects along the n4 corridor for example will happen.

Seth Brundle

Bambi wrote: »

Can you throw up the figures for cycling deaths for Dublin in the last 2-3 years?

2019 (up to 6 September 2019) = 5
2018 = 9
2017 = 15 (4 of which in Dublin)
2016 = 10

https://www.garda.ie/en/roads-policing/statistics/roads-policing-fatalities-to-date-for-2019/
https://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/RSA-Statistics/
https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Fatal%20Collision%20Stats/Provisional_Reviews_of_Fatal_Collisions/RSA%20Provisional%20Review%20of%20Fatalities%2031%20December%202017.pdf

downtheroad

The utter hyperbole from those interviewed in the Indepedent this week. I wonder did they seek out the Indo or vice versa. Saying that a road will turn to a motorway or thst buses will be right outside the house windows is complete nonsense but plays the bleeding heart to try to prevent a sensible project from getting off the ground.

The inability or lack of desire to see the greater good can be extremely frustrating in this country. Bus connects may have it's flaws but it is a lot better than the current infrastructure that is in place in Dublin. Yet many people prefer to see the status quo remain so that they can protect their beloved 2 metres outside their home.

A friend who lives in Sydney was just telling me about the numerous projects that are completed or close to completion over there, that would never be entertained here. Buildings that were only completed in the last 10 or 20 years replaced by bigger and more modern buildings, ambitious tunnels and rail projects and plenty more. Here people prefer to object to every proposal but then whinge that traffic is awful, there's not enough houses etc.

Near where I live in Dublin there was a proposal to put a floodlit astro pitch into a local park which would have been of great benefit to the area and local football teams. This was shut down by a few busybodies who don't want to see any progress in the area, and 1 of the objections referred to a local elderly man who feeds pigeons in the park and his life might be changed if he cannot feed the birds. So multiple kids and adults in the area must now play football on muddy pitches in the dark because Jimmy can't feed the birds in a different section of the park.

I wonder why the NTA, Dept of Transport, Jarred Walker and others even bother when this Irish small minded thinking reported in the Indo is what they are up against.

mollser

"No. It's going to go from a busy two-lane road to a four-lane motorway."

Very worrying that an architect can't distinguish what's being proposed from a motorway. Career limiting quote that!

L1011

I always thought it was a rural thing of calling a comparatively big road a "motorway" - e.g. the N4 Coolloney and the N13 outside Letterkenny - until I read ridiculous amounts of 1970s and 80s newspapers for another research project (see my sig). The term was used to refer to four lane single carriageways in Dublin all the time. Inaccurate, hyperbolic nonsense but in common use.