Dublin - BusConnects

Sam Russell

The measure of the success of Busconnects wil be measured by:

1. Is there a modal shift from cars to buses? A bus is 12 m long and a car is 5m long, but a bus carries 70 passengers while a car carries just 1 person (average 1.2 per car). Each exta bus load save 300 metres of traffic.

2. Average speed of buses. I think av is about 10 km/hr. If that increased to 12 km/hr then a current journey of 10 km would take 50 min rather than an hour.

3. Reliability. If it took 50 min yesterday, then it should take 50 min today, and everyday.

4. Cost must be low - the 90 min fare helps that, as does taxsaver.

5. QBCs must be policed, otherwise it is all pointless.

Stark

I really hope this is a wind up. If not, we might as well give up on the city https://extra.ie/2019/10/27/news/irish-news/electric-cars-bus-lanes-free-parking-plans

Sam Russell

Stark wrote: »

I really hope this is a wind up. If not, we might as well give up on the city https://extra.ie/2019/10/27/news/irish-news/electric-cars-bus-lanes-free-parking-plans

From the Daily Mail - so take what you like from this -

The Government is considering allowing electric cars to use bus lanes and avail of free parking in cities, the Irish Mail on Sunday has revealed.

Plans are being drawn up to give electric cars special ‘green number plates’ that will give them special permission to drive in bus lanes.

That is madness. If they restricted main lanes to only allow electric cars, it might make more sense. Bus lanes are for buses - it was bad to allow taxis unfettered access, but to expand that to electric cars is insane.

Also it mentions free parking, so that means all day parking at no cost. Another daft suggestion. To solve the traffic problem, DCC needs to start choking off on street parking and introducing restrictions on all other parking - in a gradual way that encourages a modal change in a measured way in line with the improvements in PT.

But one must remember, it is the Daily Mail, where paper never refuses ink, and click bait is all the rage.

JohnC.

What they've done there is take information from a UK article, down to the green number plates, and transplanted it to Dublin. Then extrapolated a comment where the Irish government said they'd look at it when they were asked.

cgcsb

It's basically an old story from England someone, maybe a journalist wrote to the dept of transport suggesting it. The dept of transport writes back with a generic 'it'll be considered' and boom you have a story.

blanch152

MJohnston wrote: »

Buddy, you're basing all your calculations on CARS STILL BEING ON THE ROAD. What does QBC capacity look like when selfish arseholes aren't clogging them up like immovable turds in an old sewage pipe?

That is a pretty unfair comment.

Over 50 years of commuting to work and school in various places, I have walked, cycled, bussed, trained, Darted, driven, and motorbiked. Each choice was driven by circumstances at the particular time.

Currently I drive, because of a mismatch with public transport and a school run which means the options of cycling and motorbike are not available, while the distance is too far for walking. That will end and I will switch modes to a more sustainable one. Age and illness may rule out cycling, awkwardness will rule out public transport, but a moped, down in size on the motorbike of my youth will be an option.

Even though I drive currently, I am not a selfish arsehole and that is an unfair generalisation.

Stark

Fairly sure the selfish assholes he's referring to are the ones illegally occupying bus lanes all over the city.

I have to get the bus to work tomorrow (bicycle in for service) and quite likely I'll be delayed for at least 15 mins by the bus lane being backed up from the Chesterfield Avenue/Conyngham Road junction to the Islandbridge junction with private cars.

AngryLips

I saw a video that the NTA did about BusConnects and it mentioned that the project was happening in cities across Ireland. I thought it was just a Dublin project. Does anyone know what is involved in the other cities? Is it as big an undertaking for places outside Dublin?

Sam Russell

I got a large leaflet in the door about local bus routes under Busconnects, including a large scale map.

Quite informative.

However, looking at the details - this new version reduces the 7 which becomes only north of Merrion Sq. The southern part becomes the 98 terminating at Merrion Sq, with a frequency of 60 mins. B3 and B4 run from Dun Laoghaire and Killiney. From the Merrion shopping centre into town (inc St Vincent's Hospital) get B1, B2, B3, B4 each with a frequency of 10 to 15 mins each, so that should mean a bus every 3 or so minutes. I can live with that, except they go up Baggot St instead of Mount St..

A good effort at communications - it even has one side in Irish.

CatInABox

AngryLips wrote: »

I saw a video that the NTA did about BusConnects and it mentioned that the project was happening in cities across Ireland. I thought it was just a Dublin project. Does anyone know what is involved in the other cities? Is it as big an undertaking for places outside Dublin?

BusConnects Cork and BusConnects Galway are on the cards, with essentially the same kind of stuff, a reorg of the routes with more bus and cycles lanes.

I believe that Cork has morphed into CMATS, the Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy, which is broader that just BusConnects, and has the potential to revolutionise the city.

Stark

CatInABox wrote: »

I believe that Cork has morphed into CMATS, the Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy, which is broader that just BusConnects, and has the potential to revolutionise the city.

It's one of those "20 year timeframe" things. Like Dart Underground, the Interconnector and the All-Ireland Monorail.

CatInABox

Stark wrote: »

It's one of those "20 year timeframe" things. Like Dart Underground, the Interconnector and the All-Ireland Monorail.

Yes, was just looking at the dates there. BusConnects does seem to be more upfront on it though, and is probably the easiest to get started on.

bk

Stark wrote: »

It's one of those "20 year timeframe" things. Like Dart Underground, the Interconnector and the All-Ireland Monorail.

CatInABox wrote: »

Yes, was just looking at the dates there. BusConnects does seem to be more upfront on it though, and is probably the easiest to get started on.

CMATS is to Cork, what the "Transport Strategy for the Greater Dublin Area 2016 - 2035" is for the Dublin region.

BusConnects Cork falls under CMATS, as do other more long term projects (e.g. Luas for Cork).

BusConnects Dublin falls under "Transport Strategy for the Greater Dublin Area 2016 - 2035", as do other projects like Metrolink, DART Expansion etc.

And they all fall under Project Ireland 2040. Basically these all show the major infrastructure development in Ireland over the next 15 to 20 years

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

I got a large leaflet in the door about local bus routes under Busconnects, including a large scale map.

Quite informative.

However, looking at the details - this new version reduces the 7 which becomes only north of Merrion Sq. The southern part becomes the 98 terminating at Merrion Sq, with a frequency of 60 mins. B3 and B4 run from Dun Laoghaire and Killiney. From the Merrion shopping centre into town (inc St Vincent's Hospital) get B1, B2, B3, B4 each with a frequency of 10 to 15 mins each, so that should mean a bus every 3 or so minutes. I can live with that, except they go up Baggot St instead of Mount St..

A good effort at communications - it even has one side in Irish.

The 98 terminus is planned to be at Mountjoy Square Sam, not Merrion Square.

The 36 is also planned to operate from Ballsbridge inbound along Mount St every 15 mins to Ashtown via Gardiner St and Cabra.

The key pages to look at for planned frequencies are in Chapter 7 linked to below.

Pages 100, 101, 104, 106 and 107 give the proposed frequencies for each route throughout each day which enables you to compare with the existing services.

https://busconnects.ie/media/1769/fullreport_chapter_7.pdf

The B Spine will have a bus every 4 mins virtually all day.

Sam Russell

LXFlyer wrote: »

The 98 terminus is planned to be at Mountjoy Square Sam, not Merrion Square.

The 36 is also planned to operate from Ballsbridge inbound along Mount St every 15 mins to Ashtown via Gardiner St and Cabra.

Thanks for that. The route descriptions are a little brief on details and the map is only local.

Qrt

Local socialist TD has signs up saying “save the 27” despite the route being very similar.

Sigh.

AngryLips

Just looking at the revised route map following the consultation - is it just me or does this network look much the same as the one we currently have? It seems like the biggest benefit from BusConnects wont come from the network redesign but rather it will be from the changes to road design giving bus prioritisation.

Sam Russell

AngryLips wrote: »

Just looking at the revised route map following the consultation - is it just me or does this network look much the same as the one we currently have? It seems like the biggest benefit from BusConnects wont come from the network redesign but rather it will be from the changes to road design giving bus prioritisation.

Well, I think the simplified fare structure will make a huge difference - particularly if the make Leap mandatory. Two fares - a short journey, and a 90 min fare that allows multiple changes. It is the latter fare that will make travel more attractive for many people - those that want to go and return after a short stay, and those that have multiple changes. Also, the huge improvement in frequency on the spine routes should make a difference.

The whole scheme fails if the bus lanes are not enforced. Bus mounted enforcement cameras and static enforcement cameras might be the right approach. But enforcement is essential, and maybe they should start now.

CatInABox

Sam Russell wrote: »

The whole scheme fails if the bus lanes are not enforced. Bus mounted enforcement cameras and static enforcement cameras might be the right approach. But enforcement is essential, and maybe they should start now.

The guards have zero interest in this kind of policing though. Need Shane Ross to get the finger out and transfer responsibility for this to the NTA. I've even noticed that the orcas and poles they've put up at Whitehall junction have ceased to be effective, with plenty of private cars driving in the bus lane there.

bk

AngryLips wrote: »

Just looking at the revised route map following the consultation - is it just me or does this network look much the same as the one we currently have? It seems like the biggest benefit from BusConnects wont come from the network redesign but rather it will be from the changes to road design giving bus prioritisation.

Of course the infrastructure changes will bring the greatest impact, but will also take the better part of 10 years to complete.

The revised routes will bring many welcome (if lesser) changes sooner.

- Orbital routes, WAY overdue, are a big, relatively easy win IMO.
- Scheduling all the buses on the same corridor like there are one route to try and help reduce bunching.
- 90 minute fare will be a big win IMO
- Putting all routes on the same corridor on the same bus stops in town and giving them a shared letter is an ease of use no brainer IMO.

Of course to gain the maximum benefit, the above changes working on greatly improved infrastructure along with much better bus lane enforcement will make a massive difference.

Pixel Eater

AngryLips wrote: »

Just looking at the revised route map following the consultation - is it just me or does this network look much the same as the one we currently have? It seems like the biggest benefit from BusConnects wont come from the network redesign but rather it will be from the changes to road design giving bus prioritisation.

Even if it has been watered down a bit, the fact that there will be orbital and more localised routes in the suburbs is a massive improvement network-wise.

AngryLips

bk wrote: »

Of course the infrastructure changes will bring the greatest impact, but will also take the better part of 10 years to complete.

Didn't we build the national motorway network in less time?

bk

AngryLips wrote: »

Didn't we build the national motorway network in less time?

A bit longer then that, maybe 15 years and not really complete yet either.

But a good point all the same. Having said that motorways tend to be easy to do in Ireland. Most people like the idea of them, farmers happy to take nice fat CPO offers, not many residents to piss off. Infrastructure in dense city centers tend to be more difficult, at least in Ireland.

Sam Russell

bk wrote: »

A bit longer then that, maybe 15 years and not really complete yet either.

But a good point all the same. Having said that motorways tend to be easy to do in Ireland. Most people like the idea of them, farmers happy to take nice fat CPO offers, not many residents to piss off. Infrastructure in dense city centers tend to be more difficult, at least in Ireland.

Also the motorways were quite disperse. The M6, for example started as a non-motorway from Kinegad to Athlone, and when complete suddenly became a motorway. Most motorways were built piecemeal anyway - just 10 or 20 km at a time. Some were built to replace the half-arsed bypasses, like Childers Rd in Limerick which was a bypass single carriageway road just a few km from the centre of Limerick.

Motorways were originally built with EU money that has since disappeared.

bk

Sam Russell wrote: »

Most motorways were built piecemeal anyway - just 10 or 20 km at a time.

This is a very important point. The motorways were broken up into much smaller projects. 100 million here, 300 million there. It helped them fly under the public radar.

Had the government announced that they were going to spend 12 Billion on intercity motorways over 15 years, which is what it cost, it would likely have faced far more public opposition and might never have happened.

It is a pity Metrolink, etc. can't be broken down into smaller projects like that.

Last Stop

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, I think the simplified fare structure will make a huge difference - particularly if the make Leap mandatory. Two fares - a short journey, and a 90 min fare that allows multiple changes.

I though the plan was to allow contactless like in London?
If there’s 2 fares does that mean you still have to go to the driver if you only want the short journey fare? If that’s the case then there will be minimal improvement in dwell times.
Personally I never understood why they don’t introduce ticket vending machines at major interchanges/trip generators like UCD, Blanchardstown etc. If you’re waiting for a bus you have time to buy your ticket and then just walk straight on.

Qrt

Last Stop wrote: »

I though the plan was to allow contactless like in London?
If there’s 2 fares does that mean you still have to go to the driver if you only want the short journey fare? If that’s the case then there will be minimal improvement in dwell times.
Personally I never understood why they don’t introduce ticket vending machines at major interchanges/trip generators like UCD, Blanchardstown etc. If you’re waiting for a bus you have time to buy your ticket and then just walk straight on.

I have a feeling they’ll have two readers; one at the driver for short fares, and one at the right for regular fares.

Last Stop

Qrt wrote: »

I have a feeling they’ll have two readers; one at the driver for short fares, and one at the right for regular fares.

So essentially the same as now

LXFlyer

Last Stop wrote: »

So essentially the same as now

Not quite. Far fewer people will be using the driver’s machine as it will be the equivalent of the 1-3 stages fare.

Everyone else will use the right hand validator.

Dyr

They'll still have driver interactions? If that's the case they may as well throw their hat at it, NTA want to CPO a sizeable chunk of the city but not address the biggest delay on bus journeys that is entirely within their control.