Dublin - BusConnects

Sam Russell

sharper wrote: »

The government response to electric cars in bus lanes though should have been "Absolutely not, what a ridiculous idea" and given the silly season antics we see with transport planning I can easily see them having actually done it so they could brag about green credentials and moving us all into the future and such. Again, who cares about transport elections need winning and governments love positive international press.

If they want to make a green point, they should let electric cars into the normal lanes inside the canals in Dublin and ban diesels from them on air quality grounds, as they have done in many French and German cities.

[Not a serious suggestion - well not because it is not a good idea, but because it would be politically impossible].

tom1ie

Just wondering, have many p+r’s been integrated into this plan so people can park up in outlying areas (outside the m50, eg firhouse) and then get the bus in, thus reducing the number of cars within the m50 area?

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we leave the politics to the politics forum. Party politics has no place on this thread.

Post deleted.

Last Stop

Sam Russell wrote: »

Mod: Can we leave the politics to the politics forum. Party politics has no place on this thread.

Post deleted.

Again only my posts deleted, not others who started that debate?

Sam Russell

Mod: No, 11 posts were deleted, not just yours. Discussing politics in terms of parties is not relevant here.

Neither is questioning Mod instructions on thread.

Use the Report function (the red triangle on the left) or PM the Mod you have a problem with.

@ Last Stop: Take this as a warning.

machaseh

Electric cars have no place in bus lanes.

Taxis should also be banned from bus lanes, in order to make taxis much less attractive compared to public transport. For example if I go to the airport I can take a bus (16,41,747) or a taxi, while I try to take the bus when I can using a taxi is often very tempting as it's just so much quicker than the bus, it zooming past all the traffic on the bus lane and all plus not stopping on the way. (747 also doesnt stop on the way but takes a detour for me). If anything, allow taxis (and any cars for all I care) only after bus services have stopped, so between midnight and 5 AM only.

Banning diesel/petrol cars from the city center is a whole different discussion which is not entirely relevant to this thread. What I'd say is that parking should be limited much more rather than traffic itself. If you cant park, you wont drive into the city center. If a company really wants their employees to park they should fund a parking garage themselves on their own property.

LeinsterDub

machaseh wrote: »

Electric cars have no place in bus lanes.

Taxis should also be banned from bus lanes, in order to make taxis much less attractive compared to public transport. For example if I go to the airport I can take a bus (16,41,747) or a taxi, while I try to take the bus when I can using a taxi is often very tempting as it's just so much quicker than the bus, it zooming past all the traffic on the bus lane and all plus not stopping on the way. (747 also doesnt stop on the way but takes a detour for me). If anything, allow taxis (and any cars for all I care) only after bus services have stopped, so between midnight and 5 AM only.

Banning diesel/petrol cars from the city center is a whole different discussion which is not entirely relevant to this thread. What I'd say is that parking should be limited much more rather than traffic itself. If you cant park, you wont drive into the city center. If a company really wants their employees to park they should fund a parking garage themselves on their own property.

Parking should be taxed as a BIK

Stark

machaseh wrote: »

Electric cars have no place in bus lanes.

Taxis should also be banned from bus lanes, in order to make taxis much less attractive compared to public transport. For example if I go to the airport I can take a bus (16,41,747) or a taxi, while I try to take the bus when I can using a taxi is often very tempting as it's just so much quicker than the bus, it zooming past all the traffic on the bus lane and all plus not stopping on the way. (747 also doesnt stop on the way but takes a detour for me). If anything, allow taxis (and any cars for all I care) only after bus services have stopped, so between midnight and 5 AM only.

They do need to sort out that 747 route as well though, the detours through Thomas Street, Dame Street, Cathal Brugha street and Talbot street are a joke.

I did enjoy this Twitter thread from a bus driver on Monday morning https://twitter.com/BallyfermotDave/status/1191306123049091072

All the bus lane upgrades will be for nothing if they don't sort out the enforcement of bus lanes issue.

LXFlyer

Stark wrote: »

They do need to sort out that 747 route as well though, the detours through Thomas Street, Dame Street, Cathal Brugha street and Talbot street are a joke.

I did enjoy this Twitter thread from a bus driver on Monday morning https://twitter.com/BallyfermotDave/status/1191306123049091072

All the bus lane upgrades will be for nothing if they don't sort out the enforcement of bus lanes issue.

Just to point out that the 747 is a commercial service, it is not subsidised - it’s entirely up to Dublin Bus as to what route that it takes.

They clearly want to maximise the numbers of hotels serviced.

It hasn’t served Thomas St or Dame St for some months due to the congestion and has been using the Quays instead - I suspect that will become a permanent route adjustment.

sharper

Stark wrote: »

All the bus lane upgrades will be for nothing if they don't sort out the enforcement of bus lanes issue.

Camera based enforcement of lanes is part of BusConnects but it requires legislation

https://twitter.com/BusConnects/status/1187066755518210049

MJohnston

Why should that wait until BusConnects rolls out? It’s absolutely needed already

donvito99

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1192132496076476417

JohnC.

Oh great. No enforcement then.

donvito99

JohnC. wrote: »

Oh great. No enforcement then.

Basically we are widening roads to create more free parking. I'm not surprised.

sharper

Total disaster and a huge waste of money, they may as well scrap the infrastructure changes since they'll be full of cars anyway.

Stark

Oh FFS.

The sooner Shane Ross is voted out, the better. Probably worried he won't be able to drive in them in his own SUV.

AlmightyCushion

Shane Ross is an absolute joke of a minister. The sooner he is gone the better.

Seth Brundle

Doubtful that Shane has the capability to make that decision. I reckon the senior mandarins told him what to say.

LeinsterDub

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Doubtful that Shane has the capability to make that decision. I reckon the senior mandarins told him what to say.

https://twitter.com/NoelRock/status/1192133282403627009

If that was the case you'd have imagined they the mandarins would have told the NTA and their own TDs

Last Stop

More than likely it’s based on legal advice. The guards are the only organisation allowed to enforce road traffic offences. Using the cameras on buses would open a whole can of worms.
The only solution now is fixed cameras at black spots like the Luas red light cameras. This is probably unlikely too given the legitimate arguments for being in a bus lane (for access and in emergencies), meaning it would be more hassle than it’s worth from a Garda resource point of view.

Chiparus

Last Stop wrote: »

More than likely it’s based on legal advice. The guards are the only organisation allowed to enforce road traffic offences. Using the cameras on buses would open a whole can of worms.
The only solution now is fixed cameras at black spots like the Luas red light cameras. This is probably unlikely too given the legitimate arguments for being in a bus lane (for access and in emergencies), meaning it would be more hassle than it’s worth from a Garda resource point of view.

Cameras on buses are used as evidence in criminal cases - assaults and the like.

Last Stop

Chiparus wrote: »

Cameras on buses are used as evidence in criminal cases - assaults and the like.

By the guards similar to other CCTV. This is more complex then that. You would now have a situation where either
A) the NTA is the prosecuting authority at which stage you begin to question where do you draw the line; just NTA buses, or can people be prosecuted by any member of the public with a camera? if no then why can’t private buses or even taxis/ cyclists catch cars in bus lanes?

the NTA hands the footage to the Gardai who process it, review it etc. which would cost far more and take far more resources than the benefits.

Another alternative would be that the guards do random checkpoints as presently but they’re paid for a certain number of hours per week/month by the NTA. If they were doing 40 hours per week at black spots, it would put a stop to it fairly quick.

LeinsterDub

Last Stop wrote: »

More than likely it’s based on legal advice. The guards are the only organisation allowed to enforce road traffic offences. Using the cameras on buses would open a whole can of worms.
The only solution now is fixed cameras at black spots like the Luas red light cameras. This is probably unlikely too given the legitimate arguments for being in a bus lane (for access and in emergencies), meaning it would be more hassle than it’s worth from a Garda resource point of view.

The black spots are every bus lane and every footpath in Dublin. The whole point of the NTA requesting Ross changing the law was to get around the legal advise

sharper

Last Stop wrote: »

More than likely it’s based on legal advice. The guards are the only organisation allowed to enforce road traffic offences. Using the cameras on buses would open a whole can of worms.

What we're talking about here though is amending the law. If the government is telling us the law is so messed up they can't figure out how to amend it to achieve the outcome they want then we have far far bigger problems than bus lanes.

The key difference can easily be if you get tagged by a camera you get issued a fine as a civil offence and not a criminal one or with penalty points attached. All we need is for people to know there's a real cost in using the bus lanes as right now you'd almost be stupid not to use them.

Last Stop

sharper wrote: »

What we're talking about here though is amending the law. If the government is telling us the law is so messed up they can't figure out how to amend it to achieve the outcome they want then we have far far bigger problems than bus lanes.

The key difference can easily be if you get tagged by a camera you get issued a fine as a civil offence and not a criminal one or with penalty points attached. All we need is for people to know there's a real cost in using the bus lanes as right now you'd almost be stupid not to use them.

If you don’t attach penalty points, then you bring the whole system into disrepute. The whole point of penalty points is to deter serial offenders.

LeinsterDub

Last Stop wrote: »

If you don’t attach penalty points, then you bring the whole system into disrepute. The whole point of penalty points is to deter serial offenders.

I'd rather have this than the current system with near 0 enforcement

MJohnston

Garda have clearly decided years ago that they want nothing to do with automated enforcement. When I moved here in 2006, there were fixed speed cameras on the M1, at various points on the M50, and at least one on the N4. There used to be a red light camera at Inchicore/Kilmainham inbound on the N4 too. Plenty of other examples. Now, none of those things are still in operation. That's an active choice by GDS to revert to manual enforcement (which of course, they do not do).

It's a ridiculous, weird choice by them, and we need a Minister for Transport that will put that enforcement somewhere it'll actually get done.

sharper

Last Stop wrote: »

If you don’t attach penalty points, then you bring the whole system into disrepute. The whole point of penalty points is to deter serial offenders.

Repeat offenders can have their recorded footage reviewed manually by a member of the Gardai and be dealt with in the usual manner to satisfy any concerns with due process.

Unpaid fines can be a separate criminal offence.

loyatemu

if GoSafe can enforce speeding offences I don't see why NTA can't issue points or fines for Bus Lane violations. It's a cop out from Shane Ross, he's a useless windbag and the worst transport minister I can remember. The only comfort is he's likely to be out of the department next year.

marno21

It’s high time Shane Ross was put out to pasture now. 4 years wasted by his total ineptness and disinterest in his department with nothing of note done in the meantime and a long list of stuff to be done

I don’t think many people would have expected this Government to last this long either