Homelessness and housing demonstration

Pixel Eater

Just wonder what people make of the national demonstration about homelessness and the housing crisis on tomorrow in Dublin? And if people intend to take part.

It's an issue I feel very strong about and I believe the Government simply haven't done nearly enough to alleviate the problem.

The problem is the characters involved in many of these protests and the one tomorrow; namely the AAA/People Before Profit and other such hard left groups. I'm utterly disillusioned with them; their constant negativity, impractical suggestions, vague slogans and some of the downright nasty behaviour of some of their representatives. I used to be quite sympathetic to them but after their antics and position on water charges I've little time for them.

I want to get involved and help solve the problem on the one hand but don't want to empower or support these groups on the other. Does anyone else think along these lines?

uck51js9zml2yt

How do you think you can help by going on a march? what needs to be done?

Pelvis

How will going on a march help solve the problem?

Michael D Not Higgins

It's not like it's a political issue like the 8th amendment which is demonstrating the will of the people and a change to the law. Everyone knows there's an issue, everyone wants there not to be an issue, the problem is the cost to fix it which isn't available.

shivermetimber

I'd be the same and I'll be there. There will always be those present that you don't see eye to eye with but if you believe that something needs to be done on a particular topic then getting up and out is always the better option.

Pixel Eater

Scarlett Gorgeous Stint wrote: »

How do you think you can help by going on a march? what needs to be done?

Pelvis wrote: »

How will going on a march help solve the problem?

Well I suppose you can be cynical and sneery and stay at home but a well attended demonstration can illustrate the anger of the people and give the government some food for thought with an election in the not too distant future.

Pixel Eater

shivermetimber wrote: »

I'd be the same and I'll be there. There will always be those present that you don't see eye to eye with but if you believe that something needs to be done on a particular topic then getting up and out is always the better option.

I tend to agree with you. I just wish there was a non-political, well informed group with practical solutions that one could support.

I suppose I could attend the initial walk and then leave once the aforementioned politicians get on their soapbox.

Eric Cartman

1) the government know people are angry, they're not ignoring it
2) you can't just sign a document and suddenly theres loads of houses built.
3) The homeless figures are inflated by agencies and people are declaring as homeless to game the system
4) social housing in dalkey/blackrock/dublin 4/not shítty areas isn't going to happen, when the government had a plan to build more houses in ballymun everyone went mad about that, its impossible to win with this crowd without making every working person in Ireland want to vomit.

splinter65

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Well I suppose you can be cynical and sneery and stay at home but a well attended demonstration can illustrate the anger of the people and give the government some food for thought with an election in the not too distant future.

What do you think the government should be doing that they’re not doing, and which other public service will they pull the money from in order to service your ideas?

Browney7

splinter65 wrote: »

What do you think the government should be doing that they’re not doing, and which other public service will they pull the money from in order to service your ideas?

I don't see why the government can't explore borrowing the money for 20 years at a rate of sub 2% and build the properties near decent public transport and rent them at a gross yield of 5% (1000 per month on a 240k property) to people who are lower paid but don't qualify for social housing - it's never going to happen though. In twenty years time they will still have the asset - it's not like pissing current spending down the swanny.

They keep harping on about supply being the issue but have done nothing to actually stimulate supply creation themselves bar devising a help the developers grant that just increased housing costs.

Pixel Eater

Eric Cartman wrote: »

1) the government know people are angry, they're not ignoring it
2) you can't just sign a document and suddenly theres loads of houses built.
3) The homeless figures are inflated by agencies and people are declaring as homeless to game the system
4) social housing in dalkey/blackrock/dublin 4/not shítty areas isn't going to happen, when the government had a plan to build more houses in ballymun everyone went mad about that, its impossible to win with this crowd without making every working person in Ireland want to vomit.

Well that's another issue I have; I don't entirely believe much of what the hard left have to say and take it with a pinch of salt. But me sneering from the sidelines isn't helping either. As I said I want to help but have deep reservations about the organisers.

splinter65 wrote: »

What do you think the government should be doing that they’re not doing, and which other public service will they pull the money from in order to service your ideas?

Simply build more houses directly and provide far more public housing. However raise the income threshold so far more people qualify and evict those who don't/won't pay their rents. Social housing needs major reform IMO.

uck51js9zml2yt

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Well I suppose you can be cynical and sneery and stay at home but a well attended demonstration can illustrate the anger of the people and give the government some food for thought with an election in the not too distant future.

I just asked a question which you failed to answer and instead got personal.
If you've no ideas as to how it can be fixed, just say so.

Claw Hammer

splinter65 wrote: »

What do you think the government should be doing that they’re not doing, and which other public service will they pull the money from in order to service your ideas?

It would cost nothing to re-open the closed pre-63s for example. There are perfectly good dwellings lying idle because of the regulations demanding en-suite bathrooms.

PMBC

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

It's not like it's a political issue like the 8th amendment which is demonstrating the will of the people and a change to the law. Everyone knows there's an issue, everyone wants there not to be an issue, the problem is the cost to fix it which isn't available.

Thhats a strange thing to say Michael D when politicians repeatedly say its not about money. So either that was a lie or they dont know how to or, for political or self interest reasons, dont want to.

splinter65

Browney7 wrote: »

I don't see why the government can't explore borrowing the money for 20 years at a rate of sub 2% and build the properties near decent public transport and rent them at a gross yield of 5% (1000 per month on a 240k property) to people who are lower paid but don't qualify for social housing - it's never going to happen though. In twenty years time they will still have the asset - it's not like pissing current spending down the swanny.

They keep harping on about supply being the issue but have done nothing to actually stimulate supply creation themselves bar devising a help the developers grant that just increased housing costs.

Actually I agree with you about borrowing the money.

splinter65

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Well that's another issue I have; I don't entirely believe much of what the hard left have to say and take it with a pinch of salt. But me sneering from the sidelines isn't helping either. As I said I want to help but have deep reservations about the organisers.



Simply build more houses directly and provide far more public housing. However raise the income threshold so far more people qualify and evict those who don't/won't pay their rents. Social housing needs major reform IMO.

But where is the money going to come from to build these houses?

Michael D Not Higgins

PMBC wrote: »

Thhats a strange thing to say Michael D when politicians repeatedly say its not about money. So either that was a lie or they dont know how to or, for political or self interest reasons, dont want to.

Why wouldn't it be about money? We could solve the majority of the homeless problem by a large scale building project to house everyone who is currently on the homeless list. Why haven't the government done that do you think?

shivermetimber

I would be happy to see the following being explored properly:

- Engage further with affordable housing groups such as Ó Cualann cohousing Alliance.
- Ease up on the strict regulations for new builds. I get that regulations are needed but the current requirements are off scale.
- Explore modern methods of building. It simply does not have to be so complicated and expensive to build suitable accommodation.
- Heavily tax dormant property owners for lack of use.
- Find some way to get property owners to engage with the rental market again, be it a decent reduction in landlord tax or some other option.
- Actually enforce the rental regulations in place, instead of it just being said on paper and not actually being upheld.
- Encourage long terms rental contracts like Europe and elsewhere.
- Increase funding for mental health and addiction services.

How can money be generated to stimulate some of the above? The most obvious answer is to stop living in the past and legalise cannabis, regulate and tax it. The research and proof is there that it can be done and done well. I'd imagine that would go some ways to foot the bill whilst also helping to solve other problems.

serfboard

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Why wouldn't it be about money? We could solve the majority of the homeless problem by a large scale building project to house everyone who is currently on the homeless list. Why haven't the government done that do you think?

Because it's about more than just about money - landlords, who are political representatives of, members of, and voters of Fine Gael simply won't wear it.

They'd accuse the government of "interfering in the market".

Pixel Eater

Scarlett Gorgeous Stint wrote: »

I just asked a question which you failed to answer and instead got personal.
If you've no ideas as to how it can be fixed, just say so.

Sorry I wasn't directing that at you personally. Lost in translation; I suppose I should've wrote 'one can be cynical'.

Pixel Eater

splinter65 wrote: »

But where is the money going to come from to build these houses?

There is European funds for such things that they can draw down that are off balance sheet and with low interest. Plus they spend millions providing hotel rooms to homeless families already.

I genuinely don't think it's about the money, more the lack of will.

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

But where is the money going to come from to build these houses?

I think the money is there. Unfortunately, planning seems to be a huge problem with objections not only from residents but often from councilors and other TDs who will be out in force at the weekend. They need a break from telling the people how to vote in the upcoming referendum.

Topgear on Dave

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the money is there. Unfortunately, planning seems to be a huge problem with objections not only from residents but often from councilors and other TDs who will be out in force at the weekend. They need a break from telling the people how to vote in the upcoming referendum.

I turned on my radio today to hear Senator Aodhan O Riordan criticising the granting of planning for a site beside St. Annes park in Raheny.(I dont think its in the park, it sounds like the developer owns the site)

I think he was denying that the construction of a few hundred houses & apartments would do anything to ease the homeless crisis.


And Aodhan likes to portray himself as the voice of the trendy anti-trump, anti-racism, feminist, anti-direct provision, pro publics service, pro social housing, and anti-homelessness brigade. :pac:

He is trying to get back in as a TD and he knows his voters. :cool:

Colonel Claptrap

Today 1,000 objections were given to 500 new dwellings in Raheny.

The Merrion gates will not be closed to traffic due to local objections.

Johnny Ronan's high rise tower on Tara street was denied planning permission.

Yet reading this thread it seems throwing money at the issue is the only solution.

Houses for everybody! Except NIMBY!

hmmm

If they spent less time marching and more time working and paying taxes we'd have more money to spend on this.

I think the fundamental problem is most people don't believe the figures (there are not 10,000 "homeless"), and most taxpayers are sick of paying massive taxes which are going to what they perceive to be spongers.

It's also the case the people who have paid for their houses don't want to be living beside the unknown of social housing tenants, and it is clearly bad practice to build massive estates filled with just social housing. No politician will propose either, so there's a bit of a catch 22.

GarIT

I'll never support subsidised housing for the otherwise homeless until there are guarantees that they can never buy the house and nobody is given a choice over which house they get.

splinter65

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Today 1,000 objections were given to 500 new dwellings in Raheny.

The Merrion gates will not be closed to traffic due to local objections.

Johnny Ronan's high rise tower on Tara street was denied planning permission.

Yet reading this thread it seems throwing money at the issue is the only solution.

Houses for everybody! Except NIMBY!

And the Irish are world champions at this.
“Oh it’s sooo sad all the poor likkle babies sleeping in the hotels! Someone give them houses now!! (...but nowhere near me...).

the_syco

Eric Cartman wrote: »

4) social housing in dalkey/blackrock/dublin 4/not shítty areas isn't going to happen

This. They want the houses built in high cost areas, without realizing that one house in Blackrock there could buy nearly 5 houses elsewhere in Kildare. Also, they don't seem to realize that those areas may be great due to a lack of social houses, and the issues that some bring with them.

The Specialist

I can't buy in to this at all. Oh you want a "forever home" because you've forced your child to live in a hotel? **** off. We have parasites gaming the system now, no sympathy.

Pixel Eater

Judging by the tone I'm guessing most people here aren't going...

shivermetimber

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Judging by the tone I'm guessing most people here aren't going...

Seems so but I suppose a lack of understanding and empathy along with a big brush to tar everyone with isn't really compatible with social change.