Homelessness and housing demonstration

hawkelady

.[/QUOTE]

Hearsay. I do not know anyone like that.and also MYOB. Neither you nor i know these folk in person.[/quote]

I know two of these types myself. Scrounge about quite happy with their €188 a week. Bookies and off licence are their regular haunts .. sickening. I suggest you either get out more or stop believing the crap paul Murphy and his like fling at you

Idbatterim

Lads. You do realize that fg, that “far right” party will be sending hundreds of millions more up in smoke in budget 2019 on welfare? They morphed into ff pretty quickly! Fg went for wanting to abolish usc a few years ago , to the headline in saw the today’s indo, of now not favoring income tax cuts. Hilarious ! Fg represent the in I’m alright jack brigade, older homeowners and pensioners. Also welfare recipients it now seems. How much worry do they have about putting roofs over their head in Dublin, when idiots like myself and no don’t hit your good selves here , pay taxes through the nose and pay through the nose for that bloody roof over your head at the end of the night. I heard this Jews with drought earlier, can only be good for renua. A country with a marginal rate of over half YOUR income, below the average industrial wage. Everything handed to them on a plate if you are “vulnerable “ so pretty much a good few hundred thousand people. Twenty something billion welfare spend. As the conductor posted, nothing will change until the people force change or the establishment start losing votes to new comers. When there is very little competition, of course they want to maintain the status quo...

Idbatterim

Also people can spiunt on about paul Murphy and the aaa, whoever, I don’t care lesss. Fg are the ones allowing tens of thousands this free ride. Suooorting welfare increases. You don’t need to go further to the left to start finger pointing! Varadkar taking about rewarding the early risers. His lying is beyond offensive!

Eric Cartman

Idbatterim wrote: »

Also people can spiunt on about paul Murphy and the aaa, whoever, I don’t care lesss. Fg are the ones allowing tens of thousands this free ride. Suooorting welfare increases. You don’t need to go further to the left to start finger pointing! Varadkar taking about rewarding the early risers. His lying is beyond offensive!

Ireland doesn't have a right wing to stand up to these policies. There are no elected politicians truly looking out for people who work in Ireland.

Wheeliebin30

JupiterKid wrote: »

The opinions expressed by some on here would literally turn your stomach. Yes, let’s bring back the workhouse and forced labor. Utter drivel and utter far right wing ignorance. Perhaps if those posters making such ignorant suggestions spent a fortnight in the workhouse perhaps they’d change their tune? Perhaps Renua could reform and recruit 50% of the posters on this forum?

Anyone thinking that “free houses” are a recent phenomenon should look up the Housing Act 1966, which introduced the differential rents system, where social housing tenants pay a proportion of their income toward their rent, be it the basic dole or a higher earned income.

Unlike many if not most on this thread I know something about housing as I have published work on housing policy and yes there is a serious homeless crisis, and a massive programme of direct social housing provision is one of the key solutions. The problem is political - FG want to maintain high prices and rents to keep votes among the property owning class.

Over reliance on subsidizing the private rented sector to house low income tenants who would have been in the social housing sector since the early 1990s after a major shift away from direct social housing provision seemed like a good idea at the time in a very different economic environment but it is completely unsuitable now. It has also greatly distorted the market for young professionals looking to rent. Air B and B has added to the problem.

Major urban planning reforms of building heights and dwelling layouts are also badly needed. Homelesness will probably never be eradicated but major inroads to address the problem can be made if the political will is there.

If you aren’t contributing to the pot and only taking then yes it is a free house.

You received the money you pay rent on your house for doing nothing, it was free.

Ergo a free house.

Idbatterim

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote: »

Also people can spiunt on about paul Murphy and the aaa, whoever, I don’t care lesss. Fg are the ones allowing tens of thousands this free ride. Suooorting welfare increases. You don’t need to go further to the left to start finger pointing! Varadkar taking about rewarding the early risers. His lying is beyond offensive!

Ireland doesn't have a right wing to stand up to these policies. There are no elected politicians truly looking out for people who work in Ireland.

I’m glad I don’t have to not vote next time round. Because if renua weren’t around, that’s what I do do. And I am going to rip the head off the fg f**ckers , when the snakes come around canvassing. They sure as f*ck don’t represent me or hundreds of thousands of others, as they purport!

It’s hilarious that the economy is allegedly doing so well, yet they can’t even reduce the income tax burden to any significant degree. Partly because so much money is being hoovered up by property price risers. Which they re fully complicit in...

Idbatterim

Graces7 wrote: »

GarIT wrote: »

There are people in this country that will never work a day in their lives by choice. It's so easy to make yourself unemployable so that the social can't touch you. These people are being given their €200 a week and a free roof over their heads. The social will send them for an interview and they will show up in a tracksuit and mumble their words and talk themselves down as much as they can to make sure they aren't bothered for another six months. Nothing will change their ways other than a full cut off from any benefits. We need a system of gauranteed employment to replace handouts, if you can't find a job yourself you can pick up litter, cut grass and clean graffiti; if you don't cooperate there shouldn't be any money for you.

What would actully turn your stomach is the treatment of students compared to these guys. If you scratch your arse, play playstaton and drink cans all day you get €200 per week. If you're doing a 40 hour per week science degree, you get ~€60 per week and you have no access to any of the housing supports or any other supports available to the scum that will never work a day in their lives.

Sweeping statements; proof please?

Proof to the contrary please ? The welfare system here is off the wall. Do you know what those wasters would be getting in many other eu countries? The monthly welfare in Germany I believe, as a cash payment, is e408...

Graham

Mod Note

Folks the standard of some of the posts in this thread has plummeted.

By all means criticise, critique and suggest alternatives just leave the frothing at the mouth political ranting out of it.

The_Conductor

Graces7 wrote: »

Sweeping statements; proof please?

Local authority statements listing the numbers of refusals, and the numbers of people who refused multiple properties. Cork Co. Co. had 348 refusals in 2017- of which 32 refusals were from tenants who refused more than one property. Cork has the highest number of refusals of all the local authority areas (and the most staggering reasons that some were refused- including one poor snowflake who thought the sound of the sea might make them seasick...........)

Thats the proof.

It would be nice if it weren't true- however it is.

Noel Baker and others (Irish Examiner and Irish Times) do annual articles on it- if you google some of them, I'm sure some of them are online (the IT ones are obviously Paywalled)- I'm not going to do it for you.

Pixel Eater

So I decided to go to the rally, or rather I didn't get directly involved but followed it from a slight distance on the footpath. There was a diverse assortment of groups there: from the various hard left parties (People Before Profit, Sinn Féin etc.) as well as Labour and the Greens, albeit in much smaller numbers and several of the trade unions. The left were at their usual puerile nonsense: Palestinian flags, megaphone slogans ('FG, FF, Labour; jail them all') and one particularly nasty placard ('Labour hypocritical parasites'). Had also the resident loon too with a sandwich board with extremely crudely written slogans and megaphone bleating on about the 'dark triad' of FG & FF, as well as some conspiracy about a European Army.

Anyway as I was standing at the side before the march started I was approached by on the participant handing out literature; I had to resist tearing it up when I saw that twerp Paul Murphy staring back at me from the leaflet. The person was a People before Profit councillor from South Dublin. He asked me if I was with the protest to which I responded that I had my reservations. He then when on to try and convince me of their approach.

Initially we were in agreement about raising the threshold of income and allow much more of the middle class qualify for social housing. However he then presented me with some scheme about building houses and giving people mortgages of €900 a month. He has more faith than me about the altruistic nature people in not selling on a major asset they obtained cheaply for a major mark up. Another one was to buy up much cheaper agricultural land then rezoning it as residential. He was saying this should be done in Peamount in west Dublin. My response was that it was just more urban sprawl. When questioned that there was currently major arrears in social housing his response was "Ah there's not really'. He went to say that South Dublin charge 10% of income for their housing and they can make a profit on this. I hadn't any figures close at hand so couldn't press him on it too much but that almost certainly is not true.

He was quite nice and diplomatic to deal with but he certainly failed to convince me and for all their bluster their approach is uncosted, unrealistic and impractical.

Eric Cartman

Pixel Eater wrote: »

So I decided to go to the rally, or rather I didn't get directly involved but followed it from a slight distance on the footpath. There was a diverse assortment of groups there: from the various hard left parties (People Before Profit, Sinn Féin etc.) as well as Labour and the Greens, albeit in much smaller numbers and several of the trade unions. The left were at their usual puerile nonsense: Palestinian flags, megaphone slogans ('FG, FF, Labour; jail them all') and one particularly nasty placard ('Labour hypocritical parasites'). Had also the resident loon too with a sandwich board with extremely crudely written slogans and megaphone bleating on about the 'dark triad' of FG & FF, as well as some conspiracy about a European Army.

Anyway as I was standing at the side before the march started I was approached by on the participant handing out literature; I had to resist tearing it up when I saw that twerp Paul Murphy staring back at me from the leaflet. The person was a People before Profit councillor from South Dublin. He asked me if I was with the protest to which I responded that I had my reservations. He then when on to try and convince me of their approach.

Initially we were in agreement about raising the threshold of income and allow much more of the middle class qualify for social housing. However he then presented me with some scheme about building houses and giving people mortgages of €900 a month. He has more faith than me about the altruistic nature people in not selling on a major asset they obtained cheaply for a major mark up. Another one was to buy up much cheaper agricultural land then rezoning it as residential. He was saying this should be done in Peamount in west Dublin. My response was that it was just more urban sprawl. When questioned that there was currently major arrears in social housing his response was "Ah there's not really'. He went to say that South Dublin charge 10% of income for their housing and they can make a profit on this. I hadn't any figures close at hand so couldn't press him on it too much but that almost certainly is not true.

He was quite nice and diplomatic to deal with but he certainly failed to convince me and for all their bluster their approach is uncosted, unrealistic and impractical.

Should have asked him why Claire Daly objected to social housing in malahide (near her parents) because it would 'lower property values in surrounding areas' if this was such a concern.

jimmycrackcorm

Idbatterim wrote:

Lads. You do realize that fg, that “far right†party will be sending hundreds of millions more up in smoke in budget 2019 on welfare? They morphed into ff pretty quickly! Fg went for wanting to abolish usc a few years ago , to the headline in saw the today’s indo, of now not favoring income tax cuts. Hilarious ! Fg represent the in I’m alright jack brigade, older homeowners and pensioners. Also welfare recipients it now seems. How much worry do they have about putting roofs over their head in Dublin, when idiots like myself and no don’t hit your good selves here , pay taxes through the nose and pay through the nose for that bloody roof over your head at the end of the night..

At the end of the day FG aren't in the majority so that's why we don't get the USC cuts. The lefties don't get the number of free houses they want either because they equally don't have the support necessary. That's representative democracy unlike the UK or the US where its an either or government.

Just reminds me of Churchills quote: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others"

PMBC

littelady wrote: »

Just plunging random figures out of my head as I leave the house....a quick question for you lefties please answer honestly.

1- to those of you who work would you happily contribute €1,000 throughout the year in a new taxation to help fund the homeless

2- to those on the dole I'm not inc those who have a real disability would you happily loose €50 per week to help the homeless.

I would be willing to pay another E20 per week (E1,000 throughout the year), if that's what you mean, to help fund homelessness.
I don't see, even though it might be appealing in some cases, how you could expect dole recipients to pay E50. That would be a huge percentage of their take home

JupiterKid

It boils down to this simple fact - the ruling political class believe we have an economy, not a society. The rot began with Bertie and co after the 1997 election.

Housing is a basic social need as well as an appreciating economic asset. The far left are clueless - AAA and the likes don’t understand the complexity of the housing system and the homeless industry is almost certainly in its self interest, keen on perpetuating the homeless problem.

We need a proper national housing forum with key politicos, academics (I’m one of these ), housing charities, planners, local authorities and developers to flesh out concrete plans to properly tackle the mess with actual legaslitive teeth to follow it up, not another meaningless talking shop.

The sooner FG and Varadkar go the better. They have shown zero interest in tackling the housing situation.

Eric Cartman

JupiterKid wrote: »

The sooner FG and Varadkar go the better. They have shown zero interest in tackling the housing situation.

The only problem is, who would replace them who might actually sort it ?

Topgear on Dave

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The only problem is, who would replace them who might actually sort it ?

FF/SF/Lab/SDs and all the independents who bravely fought to stay in opposition and avoid government after the last election LOL :pac:

Seth Brundle

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

FF/SF/Lab/SDs and all the independents who bravely fought to stay in opposition and avoid government after the last election LOL :pac:

I'm confused. Didn't their members actively object to some social housing developments?

Topgear on Dave

kbannon wrote: »

I'm confused. Didn't their members actively object to some social housing developments?

Of course, of course.... On principle all TDs want social and affordable housing constructed.

But in a TDs own personal constituency... Not where it might affect property values ect etc :pac:

beauf

JupiterKid wrote: »

It boils down to this simple fact - the ruling political class believe we have an economy, not a society. The rot began with Bertie and co after the 1997 election.....

The sooner FG and Varadkar go the better. They have shown zero interest in tackling the housing situation.

Couldn't agree more. Though I see no solution with anyone else either.

Wheeliebin30

JupiterKid wrote: »

It boils down to this simple fact - the ruling political class believe we have an economy, not a society. The rot began with Bertie and co after the 1997 election.

Housing is a basic social need as well as an appreciating economic asset. The far left are clueless - AAA and the likes don’t understand the complexity of the housing system and the homeless industry is almost certainly in its self interest, keen on perpetuating the homeless problem.

We need a proper national housing forum with key politicos, academics (I’m one of these ), housing charities, planners, local authorities and developers to flesh out concrete plans to properly tackle the mess with actual legaslitive teeth to follow it up, not another meaningless talking shop.

The sooner FG and Varadkar go the better. They have shown zero interest in tackling the housing situation.

Who says the majority of people want their tax money spent on thousands of social houses?

Maybe people are happy the free loaders aren’t getting their free house on demand.

Someone needs to stop this entitled nonsense.

Idbatterim

I don’t get this “ I don’t see a solution” which is spouted out endlessly . It simply costs far too much to build apartments. That can be changed very simply...

Idbatterim

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Who says the majority of people want their tax money spent on thousands of social houses?

Maybe people are happy the free loaders aren’t getting their free house on demand.

Someone needs to stop this entitled nonsense.

but they are getting it. Tens of thousands minimum siting virtually nothing for their accommodation and many will indeed argue that it is free, if you are getting the money for doing nothing. All rents should be reviewed for social housing ...

Claw Hammer

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Who says the majority of people want their tax money spent on thousands of social houses?

Maybe people are happy the free loaders aren’t getting their free house on demand.

Someone needs to stop this entitled nonsense.

Who says the majority want their tax money spent on hotels?

Owryan

Graces7 wrote: »

Hearsay. I do not know anyone like that.and also MYOB. Neither you nor i know these folk in person.

I do, I work with them. And it's not a sweeping generalisation. There are a significant number in our society who feel it is their entitlement to take without giving.

Wheeliebin30

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Who says the majority want their tax money spent on hotels?

Doesn’t seem to be a massive appetite for a huge social housing build from the public, how many turned out the other day?

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Doesn’t seem to be a massive appetite for a huge social housing build from the public, how many turned out the other day?

About 10,000. There would have been more if Erica Fleming and friends put the people they claim to speak for first and didn’t boycott the march because Labour were marching.

Wheeliebin30

[Deleted User] wrote: »

About 10,000. There would have been more if Erica Fleming and friends put the people they claim to speak for first and didn’t boycott the march because Labour were marching.

Wow 10,000 ay.

Topgear on Dave

Deleted User wrote: »

About 10,000. There would have been more if Erica Fleming and friends put the people they claim to speak for first and didn’t boycott the march because Labour were marching.

<Insert Monty Python "Splitters" sketch here> :pac:

Claw Hammer

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Doesn’t seem to be a massive appetite for a huge social housing build from the public, how many turned out the other day?

So if people don't go to a demonstration, it can be inferred that the support the status quo. This is a democracy.

Wheeliebin30

Claw Hammer wrote: »

So if people don't go to a demonstration, it can be inferred that the support the status quo. This is a democracy.

Yes it is, a democracy that people voted fg in, yet you want them out because they won’t build social houses for every Tom dick and harry??