Haven’t received letter from Garda.

PiotrIr

Hi,
I was catched by Garda two weeks ago for passing on red light – my fault. However, I haven’t got a letter yet so just started to worry as rules had changed last year (how stupid it is - I have to proof I haven’t received letter – absolutely barbaric low, you are guilty to the moment when you proof opposite? Why Garda doesn’t send those letters by registered post?). I just wander what can I do – could you advise please?

_Kaiser_

They have up to 6 months as far as I'm aware to follow-up, but I'd say you might get something in the next week or so as I'd imagine they probably do lots of these in batches at the end of the month.

PiotrIr

Hi Kaiser,

Thank you for your reply.

Do you know if there is any way to check if the letter was sent?

Wishbone Ash

PiotrIr wrote: »

... Why Garda doesn’t send those letters by registered post?)...

2 reasons - people know what going to be in the letter so they refuse to accept the registered letter from the postman or, if not there, ignore the postal notice and don't collect the letter from the post office.

They then use it as a defence when in court so the Gardai stopped using registered post.

cython

Mr.S wrote: »

Surely the defence of "the letter never arrived" is far easier, as there is no proof the letter arrived?

Do that and it seems now you will just get a copy of same on the back of your court summons as a last chance to pay so if you turn up to court you can't make the claim of non-receipt any longer: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/penalty-points-loopholes-are-closed-by-new-summonses-1.3240417

PiotrIr

Well, this case only proof the real Ireland is dying. When I arrived to your beautiful country – nearly 12 years ago, I was amazed the freedom which you had, comparing to Poland. Now I can see, all politicians are talking about freedom (especially now) and in fact they are taking freedom from people changing us into slaves – and this is one of many examples.

Well, the basic rule of any civilized country is – you are not guilty to the moment when you are proofed opposite. I really don’t care how government will show in court, I received the letter but it should be due to them. Perhaps Garda should give ticket when I was stopped or they just deliver it personally – I don’t know. What I know, many times letters are delivered to wrong address – I’m getting from time to time post addressed to somebody else. Now, how I possible should show the letter was not delivered to me?

Wishbone Ash

I think you're getting worked up over what may be nothing. Gardai can use their discretion when a traffic offence is committed. It's possible that they may be letting it go. Don't worry about it.

Xterminator

Apologies- i misread OPs post

Wishbone Ash

Xterminator wrote: »

...Step back from you little bubble and look at the bigger picture. the problem in this case in not the system. your attitude is selfish and incorrect. You always have the option to not pay, and go to court and plead you case before a judge. your rights are not infringed. But the rights of other road users and pedestrians to safely go about their business? You infringed on those rights by your own admission.

I think you've picked up the OP's concern incorrectly. He/she is anxious that they have not yet received any correspondence from the Gardai which they are expecting and is anxious that the letter may have been sent to a different address and that this may have further implications for them should it go to court.

gimli2112

How do you prove you never received a letter? "Here's some pictures of my letter box for the last four weeks"

PiotrIr

Xterminator - Wishbone Ash is right, I don't have problem with paying my penalty and getting points. My problem is, how I will proof I din't get the letter...

cython

gimli2112 wrote: »

How do you prove you never received a letter? "Here's some pictures of my letter box for the last four weeks"

If you read the article I posted above, if they are now adding the letter to the back of the summons to give people a last chance, then by virtue of showing up in court, you are proving that you received at least that copy of it. If you want to try to prove otherwise, you'd need to dodge the summons completely.

Xterminator

i re-read, and you are correct. i have edited my comment - apologies.

PiotrIr

PiotrIr wrote: »

Well, this case only proof the real Ireland is dying. When I arrived to your beautiful country – nearly 12 years ago, I was amazed the freedom which you had, comparing to Poland. Now I can see, all politicians are talking about freedom (especially now) and in fact they are taking freedom from people changing us into slaves – and this is one of many examples.

Well, the basic rule of any civilized country is – you are not guilty to the moment when you are proofed opposite. I really don’t care how government will show in court, I received the letter but it should be due to them. Perhaps Garda should give ticket when I was stopped or they just deliver it personally – I don’t know. What I know, many times letters are delivered to wrong address – I’m getting from time to time post addressed to somebody else. Now, how I possible should show the letter was not delivered to me?

The basic law is that you are innocent until proven guilty, so if you claim to have never received the letter, then the onus is on the law enforcement agencies to prove that you were sent and that you received that latter.
Proof of posting is not proof of receipt.

GM228

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The basic law is that you are innocent until proven guilty, so if you claim to have never received the letter, then the onus is on the law enforcement agencies to prove that you were sent and that you received that latter.
Proof of posting is not proof of receipt.

The law changed last year, there is now a statutory presumption you got notice. This was part of the reason why people are now given a "Section 44 Notice" with the summons, aka the third payment option.

coffee_cake

GM228 wrote: »

The law changed last year, there is now a statutory presumption you got notice. This was part of the reason why people are now given a "Section 44 Notice" with the summons, aka the third payment option.

Is it not too late to pay when you get the summons or do you pay and then show up saying yeah i just paid

degrassinoel

cython wrote: »

If you read the article I posted above, if they are now adding the letter to the back of the summons to give people a last chance, then by virtue of showing up in court, you are proving that you received at least that copy of it. If you want to try to prove otherwise, you'd need to dodge the summons completely.

bench warrant for missing the court date.. bigger fine, or worse..

GM228

bluewolf wrote: »

Is it not too late to pay when you get the summons or do you pay and then show up saying yeah i just paid

You can pay it up to 7 days before court date.

Visconti

PiotrIr wrote: »

Hi,
I was catched by Garda two weeks ago for passing on red light – my fault. However, I haven’t got a letter yet so just started to worry as rules had changed last year (how stupid it is - I have to proof I haven’t received letter – absolutely barbaric low, you are guilty to the moment when you proof opposite? Why Garda doesn’t send those letters by registered post?). I just wander what can I do – could you advise please?

Thankfully you didnt hurt anyone breaking the red light very dangerous thing to do. The garda has 6 months to send it to you. Many have a backlog of paperwork so expect it from 3 to 5 months from you committing the offence. When you break the law it does no harm to get the garda's name and where they are stationed so you can make contact. With driving in a bus lane some people nip in a few meters before it starts they might let it go. With breaking a red light I doubt they will let it go and they shouldn't. Maybe now you will respect the rules of the beautiful little country that took you in.

Visconti

degrassinoel wrote: »

bench warrant for missing the court date.. bigger fine, or worse..

Very true if you miss the court date and you get a Judge in a bad mood that day it can and will be issued.

Visconti

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

2 reasons - people know what going to be in the letter so they refuse to accept the registered letter from the postman or, if not there, ignore the postal notice and don't collect the letter from the post office.

They then use it as a defence when in court so the Gardai stopped using registered post.

Government bodies sent letters by "express post" the red label, no need to sign the post man signs as proof it was delivered.

cython

degrassinoel wrote: »

bench warrant for missing the court date.. bigger fine, or worse..

Never said dodging the summons was a good idea

Lumen

Visconti wrote: »

Maybe now you will respect the rules of the beautiful little country that took you in.

Ah here, rule-breaking is pretty much a national sport!

Visconti

Lumen wrote: »

Ah here, rule-breaking is pretty much a national sport!

Its not rule breaking its law breaking very different. Breaking a red light can cause death and serious injuries. Not joking matter and not a national sport.

Lumen

Visconti wrote: »

Its not rule breaking its law breaking very different. Breaking a red light can cause death and serious injuries. Not joking matter and not a national sport.

I witness red light jumping every day on my commute. Irish people have a very relaxed view of road traffic law, so lecturing an immigrant on how to behave is deeply ironic.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

I witness red light jumping every day on my commute. Irish people have a very relaxed view of road traffic law, so lecturing an immigrant on how to behave is deeply ironic.

Not helped by local councils insisting on leaving a couple of seconds for "early red" drivers to safely break the law!

Visconti

Lumen wrote: »

I witness red light jumping every day on my commute. Irish people have a very relaxed view of road traffic law, so lecturing an immigrant on how to behave is deeply ironic.

Have you got a traffic cam in your car ? You need to get one and pass the footage on. I do 1k kms per week and I cant remember the last time I saw someone breaking a red light.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Visconti

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Doesn't make it right though. If you walked up and down certain streets you might see 20 handbags being snatched a day in Dublin.... is it ok to snatch handbags ?
I don't accept breaking red lights is acceptable in any shape or form.
Do you break red lights yourself ?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

magicbastarder

Visconti wrote: »

Have you got a traffic cam in your car ? You need to get one and pass the footage on. I do 1k kms per week and I cant remember the last time I saw someone breaking a red light.

seriously?
genuinely confused. i see it on a daily basis. you do three times as much travel as i do, and you can't remember the last time you saw it? is it all motorway miles you do?