1st Sub -20 5K - breakthrough advice!

pinkles

Thanks for all the responses in recent weeks .
The advice has been invaluable.
Finally, got to my promised land today with a Parkrun of 19.49.

quite a mixed course as well so not the easiest.
Its hugely satisfying having only really been running just over a year.

I really took on board all the advice here and it was all spot on.

The key advice i got here which made the big difference was
1. increase volume with a combination of more regular easy runs and a weekly long run.
(i was already doing almost a weekly long run but i only really did 2 shorter sessions
during the week apart from that.) the extra volume benefitted me and i could feel that i was becoming more of a runner with regular running more or less 5 or 6 days a week.

2. Introduced Mile Repeats as advised.. Only did 2 sessions of these but found them great - that extra push and finding another gear when struggling..

all advice has been spot on. it wasn't textbook but i feel good to have gotten there having been at 22.00-23.00 one year ago.

i hung on a little towards the end ...had an explosive start which is often ill advised but it did give me great confidence to dig deep later on.
my first 3 k splits were 3.41 , 3.52 , 3.50
as i knew 2-lap course quite well, the first and 3k mark is rather flat so my tactic was attack the course there. it worked.
the rest of the course is forest trails so i dug deep and tried to keep as close as possible to 4.00.

as one poster here said before sometimes its about just bursting a lung.
after 2/3's through the course iknew i was in with a great chance and just held on.

Guys thanks for the advice.
as someone else said hitting that sub - 20 the first time was one of the most pleasing things.

to anyone looking to do the same it is VERY achievable with the right approach to training. if u are around 22-23 minutes it just a matter of following the advice given here, with a big dollop of patience and a little persistence.

Kellygirl

Well done Pinkles. Great achievement. Great when hard work pays off.

Swashbuckler

Well done on the sub 20. Sub 19 next!

Murph_D

For play, pinkles, well done. Where and when, as a matter of interest?

pinkles

Murph_D wrote: »

For play, pinkles, well done. Where and when, as a matter of interest?

Yeah it was Ballincollig in Cork.
A popular parkrun but not exactly easy.

rom

pinkles wrote: »

Yeah it was Ballincollig in Cork.
A popular parkrun but not exactly easy.

Well done. Its a very slow course. Prob 45 sec to a min slower than a good rd 5k. You would have a good chance to get close to sub 19 in John Buckley 5k in the end of May in the Marina if your interested.

Kellygirl

pinkles wrote: »

Yeah it was Ballincollig in Cork.
A popular parkrun but not exactly easy.

Ah - I thought it might be Ballincollig by your description. I’m having a hard job getting a pb there though I’m going for sub 25 - a lot slower than you.

pinkles

rom wrote: »

Well done. Its a very slow course. Prob 45 sec to a min slower than a good rd 5k. You would have a good chance to get close to sub 19 in John Buckley 5k in the end of May in the Marina if your interested.

Actually i have signed up for it only to realise i had also signed up for the fermoy 10mile on the previous sunday. I might be too knackered for a 5k 2 days after the 10 miler!
but then again i may choose the Buckley 5k run as its a tempting flat course and a chance to improve.

pinkles

Kellygirl wrote: »

Ah - I thought it might be Ballincollig by your description. I’m having a hard job getting a pb there though I’m going for sub 25 - a lot slower than you.

Its not an easy course once you hit the forest trail. Those bridges and little turns are a killer!
Best of luck, its a good place to run though as it so challenging.

Kellygirl

pinkles wrote: »

Its not an easy course once you hit the forest trail. Those bridges and little turns are a killer!
Best of luck, its a good place to run though as it so challenging.

Yes - I got a pleasant surprise at the recent 5 mile on the marina a couple of weeks ago. The flat road made a huge difference to my pace. I love the regional park though for training.

pinkles

Kellygirl wrote: »

Yes - I got a pleasant surprise at the recent 5 mile on the marina a couple of weeks ago. The flat road made a huge difference to my pace. I love the regional park though for training.

Yes its great to mix up flatter courses with more difficult ones. Even doing occasional medium- steep hill repeats will help any runner regardless of level.
I did some of those in the new year and they did give me something extra. Good luck in your own target. when u put in the effort it always pays off. Some of the advice on here will help every runner.

deisedude

pinkles wrote: »

Actually i have signed up for it only to realise i had also signed up for the fermoy 10mile on the previous sunday. I might be too knackered for a 5k 2 days after the 10 miler!
but then again i may choose the Buckley 5k run as its a tempting flat course and a chance to improve.

Fermoy is 20th and John Buckley is 29th so you are sorted

pinkles

deisedude wrote: »

Fermoy is 20th and John Buckley is 29th so you are sorted

I had hoped it wasn't back to back but BHAA site lists it as 29th( as was listed in New Year) but Primo events says 22nd.
Also JB sports site confirms 22nd.
It would be my first marina race so i would much prefer going to that although i do prefer morning races.

bigronnie9

Interesting thread and some very good advice in here, fair play!

Also aiming for sub 20 at some stage this summer so will try and use some of the tips in here with regards mileage etc

coogy

I'm relatively new to running, at least when it comes to going out on several runs a week.

I've been running pretty consistently now since November 2017. I only started doing the Park Run back in February and was hitting times of just above 23 mins for the first couple of runs.
After 11 Park Runs under my belt, I am now finishing sub 20, with a PB of 19.42. A lot of it was as a result of pushing myself that bit more during Park Runs than I did during my other mid-week runs and it definitely paid off.
Sure, I know finishing a 5k sub 20 is not the be all and end all but it gives me the extra push I need to keep going out every week and I find I'm really enjoying running now. Am covering distances of about 8 miles in just under the hour mark.
Can't wait till my first marathon in October!!

Feeling good!

Murph_D

coogy wrote: »

I'm relatively new to running, at least when it comes to going out on several runs a week.

I've been running pretty consistently now since November 2017. I only started doing the Park Run back in February and was hitting times of just above 23 mins for the first couple of runs.
After 11 Park Runs under my belt, I am now finishing sub 20, with a PB of 19.42. A lot of it was as a result of pushing myself that bit more during Park Runs than I did during my other mid-week runs and it definitely paid off.
Sure, I know finishing a 5k sub 20 is not the be all and end all but it gives me the extra push I need to keep going out every week and I find I'm really enjoying running now. Am covering distances of about 8 miles in just under the hour mark.
Can't wait till my first marathon in October!!

Feeling good!

Well done, but if you want to step up to marathon you are going to need to introduce a lot more
easy paced running. A 20 min 5k runner looking to build/maintain endurance would be doing that easy midweek 8 mile run in more like 65-72 mins. I’d recommend you join the novice marathon thread, linked at the top of the thread list.

rom

coogy wrote: »

I'm relatively new to running, at least when it comes to going out on several runs a week.

I've been running pretty consistently now since November 2017. I only started doing the Park Run back in February and was hitting times of just above 23 mins for the first couple of runs.
After 11 Park Runs under my belt, I am now finishing sub 20, with a PB of 19.42. A lot of it was as a result of pushing myself that bit more during Park Runs than I did during my other mid-week runs and it definitely paid off.
Sure, I know finishing a 5k sub 20 is not the be all and end all but it gives me the extra push I need to keep going out every week and I find I'm really enjoying running now. Am covering distances of about 8 miles in just under the hour mark.
Can't wait till my first marathon in October!!

Feeling good!

7:30 per mile is about easy run pace for a low 17min 5K person. If you don't slow the easy runs down the first marathon will be hell (I speak from making the same mistake)

Johnny_Fontane

I think the best way to get Sub 20 if you are floating around it, is to sign up for a 5k race like the Dublin Docklands or something. Put yourself near the front. Alot to be said for running amongst a bunch of very fast runners, drives you on.

just my 2 cents.

pinkles

rom wrote: »

7:30 per mile is about easy run pace for a low 17min 5K person. If you don't slow the easy runs down the first marathon will be hell (I speak from making the same mistake)

Just a quick question on a running topic.
Please anyone feel free to reply.
How crazy woyld it be to run a 10 mile race ( without pushing too much) on a sunday morning and then a fast 5k race on the Tuesday night?

I want to make both races but im thinking going to have to sacrifice one for the other !
Crazy , ill advised?

Shedite27

pinkles wrote: »

Just a quick question on a running topic.
Please anyone feel free to reply.
How crazy woyld it be to run a 10 mile race ( without pushing too much) on a sunday morning and then a fast 5k race on the Tuesday night?

I want to make both races but im thinking going to have to sacrifice one for the other !
Crazy , ill advised?

Depends on your fitness really. How much does a 10m run normally take out of you? Not a hope I could do it without still feeling stiff on Tuesday but 10 years ago at full fitness would have had more of a chance.

If Tuesday is important to you, give Sunday a skip (or go very gingerly), otherwise, give it a go. Worst case you realise you can't do it

pinkles

Shedite27 wrote: »

Depends on your fitness really. How much does a 10m run normally take out of you? Not a hope I could do it without still feeling stiff on Tuesday but 10 years ago at full fitness would have had more of a chance.

If Tuesday is important to you, give Sunday a skip (or go very gingerly), otherwise, give it a go. Worst case you realise you can't do it[/quote

A 10k for me is not too bad at all and my tbinking is that if i run it fairly close to normal 10k pace for half the race and then easy pace for the other half i might conserve myself a little.

Will generally tKe it easy

Swashbuckler

pinkles wrote:

Just a quick question on a running topic. Please anyone feel free to reply. How crazy woyld it be to run a 10 mile race ( without pushing too much) on a sunday morning and then a fast 5k race on the Tuesday night?

I'll put it to you this way. With everything I've read and the coaching I've received I've never seen it prescribed to run ten miles two days before a race. So it's down to how much do you want to run the 5k well.

deisedude

Finally broke the 20 minute barrier last night after a year of near misses and surprisingly I managed it on a looped course with a sharp hill for a 19:51. Was probably in the shape for it this past month but I'm useless at racing in the heat!

Over the moon to finally get it!

How is everyone else getting on with their sub 20 journeys?

Swashbuckler

deisedude wrote:

Finally broke the 20 minute barrier last night after a year of near misses and surprisingly I managed it on a looped course with a sharp hill for a 19:51. Was probably in the shape for it this past month but I'm useless at racing in the heat!

Well done. Big achievement. Congrats!

Dub13

Nice one, have come very close a few times but I find it hard when marathon training I always feel it in the legs in the least couple of KM's. I do tend to pb a few weeks after a marathon, so high hopes soon enough.

HelenAnne

Well done deisedude! That’s great! You must be delighted!
I’ve just spotted this thread and am going to read through it as I’m trying for sub-20 too.
I was MILES off in the Day of PBs - not sure if it was the heat or just the psychological difficulty of the track - but I was 20.18 in the Docklands, so if I keep training I should get there this year.
I ran 26.22 for 4-miles on Wednesday, which was a better pace than my track 5k
I’ll give this thread a read & report back on my 5k efforts.
Good luck everyone!

HelenAnne

Close(ish) but no cigar -- 20.08 at park run yesterday. I'm delighted with that, as it's 10-second improvement on the Docklands last month.

I felt pretty good, and just tried to keep pushing on and passing people, and tried to keep a good rhythm for the last long straight. I don't think I could have run much harder, but fingers crossed for another 10-sec improvement over the next while

Murph_D

Pacer Saturday next week and you’re home and dry. Save something for that mile though.

HelenAnne

Murph_D wrote: »

Pacer Saturday next week and you’re home and dry. Save something for that mile though.

I'm pacing next week! (Not pacing 20, obviously). I'm going to be pacing 22. Hope I manage it!

pinkles

Hi i was looking for some advice on the following.
I like the Mile Repeats you suggested and they did the trick for me to finally hit Sub 20 a few months back.
Now i would like to try a faster course to get my numbers down.
My question is -
1. is it advisable/OK to say race 4 days after these repeats.
As i hit the mile intervals handily enough(today, Wednesday) i was thinking of hitting a fast parkrun on Saturday. I feel i should hit sub 20 again.
Do i need more recovery? What would be your final speed session before a 5k race?
Would you wait a week and race a week later.
Im kind of itching to go in a few days!

2. When to schedule the tempo run? 1 week before race ? Week of race?
I only did a 20 min temp 3 days ago.
Do you think that is sufficient?
Could i do an easy run 3 say tomorrow and run 1 or 2 miles at Tempo?

pac_man wrote: »

My go to session to break sub 20 for 5k is 3*1 mile @ race pace(6:25) with 2 mins recovery. If you can do that in training, more than likely, you'll do it in a race. This is because in a race, to compensate for the lack of recovery, you'll have the benefit of race adrenaline and chasing fellow runners.
You'll need to build yourself up to do that session and if you can do that on the course that you find challenging, all the better.

Another session is 4 mile tempo @ 6:50-6:55.

Keep your easy runs easy, 8 min mile sounds a bit quick but do whatever feels comfortable and be honest with yourself. If you're breathing heavy during the end of these runs, then you need to slow your easy runs down. The idea is that you want to keep your legs relatively fresh so that you'll be able to perform the sessions.

Continuously do a long run slowly at the weekend, circa 10-12 miles. I Personally think going up to 15 miles seems like overkill and possibly counter productive, particularly if you don't come from an endurance background but as someone previous said, there's many ways to skin a cat.