Private to Public Sector

jess1984

Hello,

I have a situation..one wouldn't say it's a bad one but I'm really stressed about it.
I work in the private industry, it's a high pressure role. I work Christmas day, public holidays, weekends though my position is supposed to be Monday to Friday - 8 to 4, usually finish at any time up to 10 pm and could start at 0500 am. Trying to get vacation is tough, you have to find coverage. You are expected to provide coverage for others. Your expected to check your emails when you are off. In saying all this I do get paid well. But I'm always stressed and tired. Plus the 1 other person in my department in our Irish office stinks and drives me around the bend. Im with the company 8 years.
I've now been offered a permanent position in a local authority. The work life balance would be amazing but my salary will drop by €12 k. I'm so stressed about this. I know money doesn't buy happiness but I'm literally getting sick about this decision. Has anyone been in a similar situation?
Thanks for any advise.

GalwayGrrrrrl

That 12k difference is to be considered in light of this-
Permanent job
Pension
Sick pay
Maternity pay
Career break option
Funding for further education (this depends on Dept)
Study leave.

I work in public sector and find the perks are great, look at the big picture and then make up your mind.

Shaunoc

jess1984 wrote:

I have a situation..one wouldn't say it's a bad one but I'm really stressed about it. I work in the private industry, it's a high pressure role. I work Christmas day, public holidays, weekends though my position is supposed to be Monday to Friday - 8 to 4, usually finish at any time up to 10 pm and could start at 0500 am. Trying to get vacation is tough, you have to find coverage. You are expected to provide coverage for others. Your expected to check your emails when you are off. In saying all this I do get paid well. But I'm always stressed and tired. Plus the 1 other person in my department in our Irish office stinks and drives me around the bend. Im with the company 8 years. I've now been offered a permanent position in a local authority. The work life balance would be amazing but my salary will drop by €12 k. I'm so stressed about this. I know money doesn't buy happiness but I'm literally getting sick about this decision. Has anyone been in a similar situation? Thanks for any advise.

What's the point of the extra 12k when you have no life. When you get the chance to look back in years to come, what's more important

Icsics

Don’t look at it as a career move, look at it as a lifestyle choice. 12k before tax in the scheme of things is not a lot & if u will be happier it’s a no brainer

hooplah

What sort of pension are you on now?

What sort of pension would you get if you work from here to retirement in the public sector?

Unless you are currently on a defined benefit pension there's a good chance the improved pension will remove a good bit of that 12k.

jess1984

hooplah wrote: »

What sort of pension are you on now?

What sort of pension would you get if you work from here to retirement in the public sector?

Unless you are currently on a defined benefit pension there's a good chance the improved pension will remove a good bit of that 12k.

I'm not on a pension. I know..very silly of me but I just didn't sign up to one. I haven't a clue about pensions. It's only in the past year since we bought a house that I sorted out life insurance etc. I was working my way towards the pension this year 🙈

pearcider

Well in that case it's a no brainer!

judeboy101

You'll pay more into a public pension than you'll get out of it if you are a post 2011 entrant, plus you'll never be on the same money as those around you as your scale will be lower.

jess1984

pearcider wrote: »

Well in that case it's a no brainer!

As in cause of the pension with the local authority it's a good idea? I really need to read up on pensions etc.

relax carry on

12k gross pay gap or 12k net pay gap? Does the public sector job have an incremental salary scale?

Reputable Rog

People are queuing up to get into the Public Service ( same people who wouldn't have got out of bed for the salary on offer in the PS a few years ago), 12k stripped down is not a whole lot of money.
Take this opportunity whilst you have it.

jess1984

relax carry on wrote: »

12k gross pay gap or 12k net pay gap? Does the public sector job have an incremental salary scale?

12k gross. Not taking overtime into the equation at all. Yes there are increments each year. In about 9 years I'd be on what I earn now. That's staying in the role and not progressing

barneystinson

judeboy101 wrote: »

You'll pay more into a public pension than you'll get out of it if you are a post 2011 entrant, plus you'll never be on the same money as those around you as your scale will be lower.

I don't see how you state either of those things as definitive statements.

You must have a poor understanding of the value of a DB pension if you think the first is true (or else you are making assumptions about future events).

The second, while currently true, may not remain true. And even if it does, in the context of the OP's current dilemma I don't really see the relevance...?

fxotoole

jess1984 wrote: »

12k gross. Not taking overtime into the equation at all. Yes there are increments each year. In about 9 years I'd be on what I earn now. That's staying in the role and not progressing

There’s decent promotion opportunities in the Public Service at the moment, so it’s likely that over the next 9 years, you’d climb the ladder and improve your pay

I.e. it’s likely you’ll make up for the 12k hit in much less than 9 years

Sierra Oscar

judeboy101 wrote: »

You'll pay more into a public pension than you'll get out of it if you are a post 2011 entrant, plus you'll never be on the same money as those around you as your scale will be lower.

This is unlikely to stay the same though, the Government is expected to move towards equalising the payscales as soon as Budget 2019 in October. The Minister for Finance published a report on this just a couple of weeks ago to lay the ground work for the equalisation of payscales.

As detailed in Section 1 there is an acknowledgement, within the Public Service Stability Agreement 2018-2020, of issues of concern relating to the increased length of salary scale for post January 2011 new entrants.

In recognition of this the Agreement commits all parties to an examination of remaining salary scale issues.

This process got underway in October 2017 with an initial discussion of the issue between the parties to the PSSA.

Since then a significant data gathering and analysis exercise has been undertaken culminating with this report, in line with the legislative requirement, which outlines the costs associated with the remaining salary scale issues.

It is intended that this report will provide the evidence base for further engagement over the coming months between the parties to explore how the matter can be addressed in line with the terms of the PSSA.

dubrov

The real problem is that your current company sounds like it is a shocking place to work.
Moving anywhere would be better than staying there.

Sounds like you should definitely move.

judeboy101

barneystinson wrote: »

judeboy101 wrote: »

You'll pay more into a public pension than you'll get out of it if you are a post 2011 entrant, plus you'll never be on the same money as those around you as your scale will be lower.

I don't see how you state either of those things as definitive statements.

You must have a poor understanding of the value of a DB pension if you think the first is true (or else you are making assumptions about future events).

The second, while currently true, may not remain true. And even if it does, in the context of the OP's current dilemma I don't really see the relevance...?

OP will pay prsi plus pension levy plus other pension related deductions, his final pension will be based on an average of his lifetime salary and will be just state pension plus top up. So if OP for example thinks he'll get 500 pw pension he's really paying all his prsi plus pension levy plus pension related reductions for (500 - contributory). He'd be better off working in Aldi as the "golden public sector pension" is, post 2011, a money pit.

randomnumber1

jess1984 wrote: »

12k gross. Not taking overtime into the equation at all. Yes there are increments each year. In about 9 years I'd be on what I earn now. That's staying in the role and not progressing

Be aware of exactly how much you’ll be deducted in the public sector between superannuation and PRD.

barneystinson

judeboy101 wrote: »

OP will pay prsi plus pension levy plus other pension related deductions, his final pension will be based on an average of his lifetime salary and will be just state pension plus top up. So if OP for example thinks he'll get 500 pw pension he's really paying all his prsi plus pension levy plus pension related reductions for (500 - contributory). He'd be better off working in Aldi as the "golden public sector pension" is, post 2011, a money pit.

Well if you're making assumptions about the long term future, do you think the state pension will remain at its current level in real terms? I doubt it will.

Given they've said they're reasonably well paid in their current job and their employer is a multinational of some sort, I'm going to reckon they're going in on something like a HEO scale, which means on a career averaging, it will be an average based on >45k.

That suggests the "top up" as you call it, will be quite substantial. If you go away and work out the cost of funding a DC pension to provide a similar level of benefit, including tax free lump sum, you'll be looking at a cost much greater than what the PS worker actually directly contributes. (I always choose to consider the difference as the employer (i.e. The State's) contribution.)

jimmycrackcorm

judeboy101 wrote:

OP will pay prsi plus pension levy plus other pension related deductions, his final pension will be based on an average of his lifetime salary and will be just state pension plus top up. So if OP for example thinks he'll get 500 pw pension he's really paying all his prsi plus pension levy plus pension related reductions for (500 - contributory). He'd be better off working in Aldi as the "golden public sector pension" is, post 2011, a money pit.

Given the op doesn't currently have a pension then it's still better to take the lower paid PS job with guaranteed pension.

Even with the pension deductions, the cost of achieving the equivalent in the private sector is exorbitant in compassion.

bobbysands81

Reputable Rog wrote: »

People are queuing up to get into the Public Service ( same people who wouldn't have got out of bed for the salary on offer in the PS a few years ago), 12k stripped down is not a whole lot of money.
Take this opportunity whilst you have it.

They’re not.

Joe222

Re pension, a lot depends on what age you are.
You need 40 years service to get a full pension.
The state pension is also not included.

So you could end up with a pension a couple of grand a year above the state pension despite paying both prsi and pension contributions.

The public service pension is not as lucrative as it was. Before your pension was based on a % of your final salary x years of service/40 - let us say half so final salary was 50,000.
Pension is 25,000 (provided you have done full 40 years).

Under the new pension scheme your pension is based on average salary not final salary.
So your starting salary was 25,000. Your final salary was 50,000. So average is 37,500.
Now pension is half of this 37,500, so 18,750 is your pension.

Difference of 6,250 per year.

That is based on you doing full 40 years.
If you only do 20/40 years your pension will be no more than state pension (as it stands).

Saying all that it is likely a compulsory pension scheme will be introduced shortly for all private sector workers who don't have company scheme so maybe it will balance out.

judeboy101

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

judeboy101 wrote:

OP will pay prsi plus pension levy plus other pension related deductions, his final pension will be based on an average of his lifetime salary and will be just state pension plus top up. So if OP for example thinks he'll get 500 pw pension he's really paying all his prsi plus pension levy plus pension related reductions for (500 - contributory). He'd be better off working in Aldi as the "golden public sector pension" is, post 2011, a money pit.

Given the op doesn't currently have a pension then it's still better to take the lower paid PS job with guaranteed pension.

Even with the pension deductions, the cost of achieving the equivalent in the private sector is exorbitant in compassion.

No it's not. OP would be better investing in anything other than a public pension. He is guaranteed to pay in way more than he will get out. He prob already has 520 stamps for the contributory so he could spend the next 30-40 years paying in up to 8k a year for maybe a 6k a year bump in his pension. OP do NOT be fooled by public sector, you are not guaranteed promotion especially if coming from private sector.

DanDublin1982

judeboy101 wrote: »

No it's not. OP would be better investing in anything other than a public pension. He is guaranteed to pay in way more than he will get out. He prob already has 520 stamps for the contributory so he could spend the next 30-40 years paying in up to 8k a year for maybe a 6k a year bump in his pension. OP do NOT be fooled by public sector, you are not guaranteed promotion especially if coming from private sector.

Gonna need more than 520 stamps under the new pension regulations to get a good state pension.

Edit:link removed. I wasn't providing good info there it seems.

The last bit is nonsense. The interview board I recently sat in front of was compiled of three private sector employees. There's no bias against it in competitions. Also, of course, no one is guaranteed promotion.

OP as to your dilemma I say take the new job. I'd much rather have my evenings and weekends than the extra cash.

judeboy101

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

judeboy101 wrote: »

No it's not. OP would be better investing in anything other than a public pension. He is guaranteed to pay in way more than he will get out. He prob already has 520 stamps for the contributory so he could spend the next 30-40 years paying in up to 8k a year for maybe a 6k a year bump in his pension. OP do NOT be fooled by public sector, you are not guaranteed promotion especially if coming from private sector.

Gonna need more than 520 stamps under the new pension regulations to get a good state pension.

Edit:link removed. I wasn't providing good info there it seems.

The last bit is nonsense. The interview board I recently sat in front of was compiled of three private sector employees. There's no bias against it in competitions. Also, of course, no one is guaranteed promotion.

OP as to your dilemma I say take the new job. I'd much rather have my evenings and weekends than the extra cash.

Bull, 520 stamps is what you need and I'm calling bull on a public job promotion interview that is decided by private sector. OP you'll be marked the day you arrive from private sector as either (a) couldn't handle it in big bad world (b) sunshiner or (c) blow in potentially taking promotions from lifers.

shar01

judeboy101 wrote: »

Bull, 520 stamps is what you need and I'm calling bull on a public job promotion interview that is decided by private sector. OP you'll be marked the day you arrive from private sector as either (a) couldn't handle it in big bad world (b) sunshiner or (c) blow in potentially taking promotions from lifers.

You must have paid at least 520 full rate social insurance contributions and have a yearly average of at least 48 paid and/or credited full rate contributions from the year you started insurable employment until you reach 66 years of age.

Why do you think the women who gave up work to raise a family were so pissed off?

pew

Op, I was in the same position last year. I was offered a public service job coming from the private sector. I took it and took an 11k pay drop along with it.

I have no regrets. The pay is crap but I find the benefits outweigh that. I no longer have to struggle to get a day off, or asking to go to my gp or hospital appointment doesn't end up an argument with a manager.

Best of luck with whatever decision you may choose op.

Class of 82

My advice would be to take up the position as you need to leave your current role ASAP. What are you doing now is not worth it.

surrender monkey

I'd take the job if you can afford the hit. What grade is the job on offer?. Keep in mind that you will have two further deductions from your wages - superannuation and PRD . As other posters have said there will be promotional opportunities along the way. The pension isn't what it once was but if you are say around 30 you will be able to work up close to the full 40 years. People are also forgetting about the lump sum element which is 1.5 times your salary I think. Factor in 29 days annual leave and depending on the council, flexi time. You will have bank holidays off. Assistance with study fees if approved and granted study leave for exams. You are not happy in your life right now and if you can take the financial hit you don't stand to lose really. If you hate it you can always leave and go back to the private sector.

DanDublin1982

judeboy101 wrote: »

Bull, 520 stamps is what you need and I'm calling bull on a public job promotion interview that is decided by private sector. OP you'll be marked the day you arrive from private sector as either (a) couldn't handle it in big bad world (b) sunshiner or (c) blow in potentially taking promotions from lifers.

520 will get you a minimum pension. You're gonna need about 4 times that to get the full whack.

And call bull all you want, I was actually at the interview so I'm fairly confident I know what I'm talking about.

Alf Veedersane

judeboy101 wrote: »

Bull, 520 stamps is what you need and I'm calling bull on a public job promotion interview that is decided by private sector. OP you'll be marked the day you arrive from private sector as either (a) couldn't handle it in big bad world (b) sunshiner or (c) blow in potentially taking promotions from lifers.

Some public bodies have outsourced interviews to private sector consultants where there has been a number of roles. The decision isn't ultimately made by the private sector people but they do have a say in it.

As for being marked in a negative sense, I've found the opposite to be the case.

OP, I made a similar switch and I was down in terms of pay but less than you. However, when I factored in less travel to and from work and the greater annual leave, it wasn't enough to put me off. But it was a role I really wanted anyway. That said, my previous role hadnt overwhelmed my life in the same way as yours seems to.

bobbysands81

jess1984 wrote: »

Hello,

I have a situation..one wouldn't say it's a bad one but I'm really stressed about it.
I work in the private industry, it's a high pressure role. I work Christmas day, public holidays, weekends though my position is supposed to be Monday to Friday - 8 to 4, usually finish at any time up to 10 pm and could start at 0500 am. Trying to get vacation is tough, you have to find coverage. You are expected to provide coverage for others. Your expected to check your emails when you are off. In saying all this I do get paid well. But I'm always stressed and tired. Plus the 1 other person in my department in our Irish office stinks and drives me around the bend. Im with the company 8 years.
I've now been offered a permanent position in a local authority. The work life balance would be amazing but my salary will drop by €12 k. I'm so stressed about this. I know money doesn't buy happiness but I'm literally getting sick about this decision. Has anyone been in a similar situation?
Thanks for any advise.

Sounds like the hours you’re working are completely illegal under the Working Time Act as well. They state you can’t work more than 48 hours per week over a 6 month period. Your employer might be in serious trouble over this and you might even have a claim against him/her.

TheBoyConor

I took up a public sector job 2 months ago. Best decision I ever made. To and from work in 15 minutes on my bike, 9-5 pretty much always.
And as for being sneered at by my be colleagues for being a "sunshiner" or some such, go away or of it will you!
We get on fine and they are all good banter! Social scene is good and I know a lot of former colleagues from my old job in there.
Money is a bit less alright but to be honest I couldn't give a fúck! Quality of life is far far more important. When you're old do you want to look back on life saying " oh I worked my hole off and had no quality time with friends and family, but that's OK I had an extra 12k than those public sector losers!" What a sad principle to live your life by. I cannot understand the attitude. There's so much more to life than breaking your hole for some faceless multinational who don't appreciate nothing and having to fight for every scrap of annual leave.

Tzardine

Just to put this out there.

The difference in salary will be more than 12k. You have to account for the pension deductions / prd etc that you must pay as a public servant.

On a salary of €40,000 you will be stopped about €3,000 a year for your pension.

But - As somebody who went from private to public and took quite a drop in pay , it is worth it.

PopTarts

The work balance is great. I’d advise you to get an idea of the net pay you will be taking Home as there are other deductions that you may not have accounted for in the €12k.

You do have Flexi time though / options of shorter working year, career break / working 8-4.

Consider all options. If you’re not happy where you are it might not be the worst idea to give it ago. You can always go back to the private sector.

jess1984

surrender monkey wrote: »

I'd take the job if you can afford the hit. What grade is the job on offer?. Keep in mind that you will have two further deductions from your wages - superannuation and PRD . As other posters have said there will be promotional opportunities along the way. The pension isn't what it once was but if you are say around 30 you will be able to work up close to the full 40 years. People are also forgetting about the lump sum element which is 1.5 times your salary I think. Factor in 29 days annual leave and depending on the council, flexi time. You will have bank holidays off. Assistance with study fees if approved and granted study leave for exams. You are not happy in your life right now and if you can take the financial hit you don't stand to lose really. If you hate it you can always leave and go back to the private sector.

Hello. It is Grade 4. I'm 34 so have a good 30+ years ahead of me still. I'm not happy but I fear being broke but am excited at the prospect of having a normal life. Thanks for the advice

jess1984

Tzardine wrote: »

Just to put this out there.

The difference in salary will be more than 12k. You have to account for the pension deductions / prd etc that you must pay as a public servant.

On a salary of €40,000 you will be stopped about €3,000 a year for your pension.

But - As somebody who went from private to public and took quite a drop in pay , it is worth it.

On my current salary I do pay the higher rate of tax on a proportion. But with this role I won't hit the higher tax rate for a long time..I think I've worked out the actual take home. I'll roughly be down a net of 1000 per month

Tzardine

jess1984 wrote: »

On my current salary I do pay the higher rate of tax on a proportion. But with this role I won't hit the higher tax rate for a long time..I think I've worked out the actual take home. I'll roughly be down a net of 1000 per month

This might be of use. Do it for your current salary and then your proposed public service salary.

You will pay 0.58% in pension deduction on the first €45k and also PRD at 10% of everything between €26k and €60k.

http://download.pwc.com/ie/2018-income-tax-calculator/index.htm

Edit - this one might be simpler

http://taxcalc.ie/budget-2018/

jess1984

pew wrote: »

Op, I was in the same position last year. I was offered a public service job coming from the private sector. I took it and took an 11k pay drop along with it.

I have no regrets. The pay is crap but I find the benefits outweigh that. I no longer have to struggle to get a day off, or asking to go to my gp or hospital appointment doesn't end up an argument with a manager.

Best of luck with whatever decision you may choose op.

Thank you.. it's good to hear from someone who has been in the exact same position. Yea I understand about getting time off...I used go to the GP and then come back to make back the time. It was never worded to me in exact words you have to do this but in a roundabout way it was put out there that was expected of you.

jess1984

xfactorfan23 wrote: »

That 12k difference is to be considered in light of this-
Permanent job
Pension
Sick pay
Maternity pay
Career break option
Funding for further education (this depends on Dept)
Study leave.

I work in public sector and find the perks are great, look at the big picture and then make up your mind.

The perks do look amazing!

Green Peter

12k a year extra until an early grave. The flexibility and quality of life you will get will be easily worth the money.

mad m

OP don’t know if it’s been mentioned but you can stay in that job way past the usual retirement age. You can also get promoted up to 5/6/7 depending on what department.

Good luck with it.

I went in 2002. I went in at height of boom. All my old work mates said I was mad to go into public sector. Few years later when the crash happened they were ringing me asking how to get in...

surrender monkey

jess1984 wrote: »

Hello. It is Grade 4. I'm 34 so have a good 30+ years ahead of me still. I'm not happy but I fear being broke but am excited at the prospect of having a normal life. Thanks for the advice

The 4 is a decent enough payscale after a few increments. Plenty of opportunity to get the 5 with a bit of experience. if I was you I'd take it! But bear in mind you could be put in any department doing anything !

dar100

Just stumbled along this post and it has got me thinking; i work in an organisation funded by public service, and my salary is grade V1, my leave is also equal to pubkic service, however no pension, just wondering how much monthly would be coning out of my salary if i was actually a PS employee? Im on point 5 of grade v1 so 50, 000 year? I may start my own pension and put said amount into a pfivate pension

shar01

dar100 wrote: »

Just stumbled along this post and it has got me thinking; i work in an organisation funded by public service, and my salary is grade V1, my leave is also equal to pubkic service, however no pension, just wondering how much monthly would be coning out of my salary if i was actually a PS employee? Im on point 5 of grade v1 so 50, 000 year? I may start my own pension and put said amount into a pfivate pension

I'm guessing your PRSI class is A so contributions would be:
€50,000 x 3% = €1,500
plus
€50,000 - €25,390.08* x 3.5% = €861.35
Total €2,661.35 per annum / €221.78 per month

*Twice annual state pension.

Then there's PRD which at the moment is not part of the pension scheme but from next year will be known as Additional Superannuation Contributions.

http://www.per.gov.ie/en/faq-documents/

Tzardine

dar100 wrote: »

Just stumbled along this post and it has got me thinking; i work in an organisation funded by public service, and my salary is grade V1, my leave is also equal to pubkic service, however no pension, just wondering how much monthly would be coning out of my salary if i was actually a PS employee? Im on point 5 of grade v1 so 50, 000 year? I may start my own pension and put said amount into a pfivate pension

Very roughly, about 5k per year. (including PRD)

Gumbo

Considering you have no private pension, that 12k drop will be realistically a 15-16k drop when you account for the PS pension Contribuion and the PS Pension Levy.

jess1984

I really appreciate everyone's advise..I've worked as a student in the public sector previously for 3 summer periods..so have seen the comparison of the work life balance. I would have 520 PRSI contributions paid

Gross salary would be dropping from 39.5k to 27.5k.

Almost everyone agrees on one aspect, life is for living and not working. My fear, please don't judge me is that I will feel inferior to friends due to earning less money and that people will think I'm not able for the real work life. But I have gave everything to this job. I care too much about it, I'm frustrated when I see the department running badly. Also I will be the 11th person to leave the worldwide division in a year if I go which tells something.
I'm not afraid of hard work, I've worked in chippers and shops to put myself through college. I have a first class degree and a masters and love the thought of further education.
I guess what I really wanted to see was if people had made this move and were genuinely happy and content by doing so.

Thanks everyone!

mad m

I worked in construction before I went into PS. Always around December or January I was let go, it was a fact. Once worked dried up I had to go looking, it was the way it was.

OP the only other thing I can see if you went to your boss told him you were offered a job in PS and say your working conditions are not healthy to you long term etc...

Your boss may try and keep you with incentives.

But I haven't looked back since 2002. Yes the money I was on in construction was double but I got job security and all I wanted was a steady wage to pay my mortgage.

Tzardine

The drop from 39.5 to 27.5 is significant, there is no doubt.

But once you get in to the public service you will get your increments. The possibility for promotion does exist too. So long as you are good at what you do and have a good work ethic you will likely move up. You can also look at further education sponsored by the pubic service.

I joined the PS 4 years ago, they have pretty much paid for my degree since I joined.

There are loads of benefits that outweigh the (temporary) drop in salary.

Alf Veedersane

jess1984 wrote: »

My fear, please don't judge me is that I will feel inferior to friends due to earning less money and that people will think I'm not able for the real work life.

I understand the train of thought but friends won't think of it as negatively as you framed it. A friend of mine left a big consultancy for PS because it improved his career prospects. I did the same myself.

It's not necessarily the same across the board but it's not a backwards step in your career by default