Chemical weapon used on civilians in Syria + Airstrikes

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

So you are telling me they went and fired 30 cruise missiles worth millions of dollars at one site in Syria?

Easily, some of the sites are large and no doubt have underground complexes

Cheerful Spring

logicpro wrote: »

Would you prefer carpet bombing of 500kg dumb bombs ?

It just takes 1 or 2 cruise missiles to take out a building made of concrete. It obvious to me they either lied about the number of missiles they fired (they are boasting) or they got shot down.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

They attacked areas in the countryside with no air cover.

The S400s have a combined 500km radius

Plenty of missles were fired- only after they had been and gone by all accounts

excuses , excuses

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

??

The Russians were forced to join the conflict because by mid 2015 Assad was in serious trouble on several fronts.

This is right you ruined it then!

ArchXStanton

Dohnjoe wrote: »

??

The Russians were forced to join the conflict because by mid 2015 Assad was in serious trouble on several fronts. They used ISIS and Al Qaeda as a pretext but really they were bombing any group putting significant pressure on Assad. Their air campaign was also smaller in scale and they reportedly used a far higher percentage of dumb munitions. They were highly successful in supporting Assad - it turned the tide for him, but as for targeting ISIS, estimates are around 5,000 ISIS fighters killed whereas the coalition bombing is considering to have killed well north of 50,000. It was far larger in scale, scope and length with significantly more aircraft, from multiple countries

There is no way on earth the axis of evil were running anyway near the amount of daily sorties the Russian military were,I seem to remember the world being caught off guard by it...someone is telling porkies

Chrongen

Discodog wrote: »

Heat is the method used to destroy chemical weapons. Plus there won't be stores of ready mixed chemical weapons. The bombing is to destroy the facility

And you believe that?
Are living in a dreamworld?

IF there was knowledge of a mythical chemical weaponry installation then why wasn't it's existence reported to the OPCW.

So this facility has been allowed to exist in contravention of the CWC but then all of a sudden destroyed?

Why did nobody report the existence of this laboratory? I would call that dereliction of duty.......or a complete crock of sh1t.


Maybe it was manufactured by elves in the night.

ArchXStanton

logicpro wrote: »

I your gonna use Axis of evil at least know what the word refers to.

If anyone deserves to be branded the axis of evil it's the US and its cohorts

Rossi IRL

Watched a Top Gear from a few years ago with the lads driving through Syria.

Looks a decent enough place back in the day with the historic sites.

Sad at just how much things can change in the space of a few years.

Elmer Blooker

ArchXStanton wrote: »

There is no way on earth the axis of evil were running anyway near the amount of daily sorties the Russian military were,I seem to remember the world being caught off guard by it...someone is telling porkies

Exactly. Maybe Dohnjoe can tell us how many sorties did Britain and France carry out in Syria.

So, when is the next "gas attack" by Assad due? I'm sure it can arranged.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It just takes 1 or 2 cruise missiles to take out a building made of concrete. It obvious to me they either lied about the number of missiles they fired (they are boasting) or they got shot down.

Or they fired lots of missiles at large complexes

You can't create your own facts, then argue from that basis

Chrongen

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Jokes on you, that's worth about thrupence ha'penny!

It buys more in Russia.

BH, Thruppence Ha'penny can but you a farm here in the Caucases. I have 4. You'd love it. Girls a sweet too.

:pac:

ArchXStanton

logicpro wrote: »

I will agree to that if you agree to Illegal troops in Ukraine and supporting the use of chemical weapons in the UK and Syria ?

Give me rock solid proof of any of that...go on...it's one of the main themes of this thread,did puppet boy Macron phone you and tell you his confidential evidence?!?

Dohnjoe

ArchXStanton wrote: »

There is no way on earth the axis of evil were running anyway near the amount of daily sorties the Russian military were,I seem to remember the world being caught off guard by it...someone is telling porkies

As mentioned the Russians were primarily targeting rebel groups in rebel held areas - generally acting as close-air support while Assad moved his troops on the ground

In contrast, the main target of coalition forces was almost exclusively ISIS

Cheerful Spring

Alex Jones doesn't like Trump anymore lol he probably acting here, but he was in love with Trump maybe his having second thoughts now.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

As mentioned the Russians were primarily targeting rebel groups in rebel held areas - generally acting as close-air support while Assad moved his troops on the ground

In contrast, the main target of coalition forces was almost exclusively ISIS

There are no rebel groups they are jihadists. You even got proof of that recently when the Free Syrian army attacked Afrin to wipe out the Kurds who fought Isis.

ArchXStanton

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There are no rebel groups they are jihadists. You even got proof of that recently when the Free Syrian army attacked Afrin to wipe out the Kurds who fought Isis.

The US comes out with some laughable stuff but "moderate rebels" is up there with the best of them

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There are no rebel groups they are jihadists.

So wait there is no opposition to the assad regime

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

So wait there is no opposition to the assad regime

Yes, there is Jihadist Sunni groups, that's about it. The attack against the Kurds in Afrin exposed who the moderate rebels are. You want Syria to be ruled by Jihadists scum?

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There are no rebel groups they are jihadists.

Yup, just like there were no protesters in Syria, only jihadists. And anyone in the Syrian army who defected to the other side.. instantly became a jihadist. And the rebel groups who fought ISIS and Al Nusra - jihadists fighting jihadists of course

Cheerful Spring

Free Syrian Army the so-called moderates fighting Assad

Dohnjoe

Gatling wrote: »

So wait there is no opposition to the assad regime

Nope, only jihadists and extremists, not a single secular Syrian ever stood against Assad

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yes, there is Jihadist Sunni groups, that's about it

According to what russia ?

So yeah there is opposition and likely not all jihadis ....

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

According to what russia ?

So yeah there is opposition and likely not all jihadis ....

Who do you think are moderates rebels what group?

Elmer Blooker

The Free Syrian Army were a hoax. They were nothing more than a front for sending weapons from Turkey into Syria, once the weapons were in Syria it didn't matter who got their hands on them as long as they were anti Assad.

Vladimir Poontang

The disingenuous US propagandists on here will never admit that they are backing head chopping radical Islamists.

Gatling

News coming out of Syria Israel hit more Iranian targets last night hours after the US ,French and UK strikes last night ,

Israel won't hit again lol.

ArchXStanton

Gatling wrote: »

News coming out of Syria Israel hit more Iranian targets last night hours after the US ,French and UK strikes last night ,

Israel won't hit again lol.

Championing more human rights abusers there Gatling...wonder when the US strikes will start on them

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Yup, just like there were no protesters in Syria, only jihadists. And anyone in the Syrian army who defected to the other side.. instantly became a jihadist. And the rebel groups who fought ISIS and Al Nusra - jihadists fighting jihadists of course

The Free Syrian army started the uprising there no freedom loving democratic fighters joining them. They were a group funded by outside powers to destabilise Syria. You got to see who they really are in Afrin. They went in to wipe out the Kurds. They don't believe in an inclusive Syria state for all. They want a Syria based on sharia law an Islamic state.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Free Syrian army started the uprising there no freedom loving democratic fighters joining them.

No it was ordinary Syrians who decided they wanted change and Assad turned the Syrian army on his own population

Dohnjoe

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

The disingenuous US propagandists on here will never admit that they are backing head chopping radical Islamists.

It's nothing to do with the US. It's domestic Syrian history. The military split, the officers that were against Assad formed the FSA.

All of this information is available - and sourced

gandalf

Gatling wrote: »

News coming out of Syria Israel hit more Iranian targets last night hours after the US ,French and UK strikes last night ,

Israel won't hit again lol.

Hitting the Syrians while they are under the kosh! Well I suppose they saw what the Russians meant when they said they'd protect the Syrians earlier which was nothing. All talk and nothing to back it up.

Billy86

Interesting timing...

Pentagon announces 2,000% increase in Russia trolls since Friday

The Pentagon reported Saturday a massive spike in online Russian propaganda efforts in the hours before and after the U.S. missile strike on Syria the night before.

“The Russian disinformation campaign has already begun. There has been a 2,000 percent increase in Russian trolls in the last 24 hours," chief Pentagon spokeswoman Dana White said in a briefing on Saturday.

Dohnjoe

Gatling wrote: »

No it was ordinary Syrians who decided they wanted change and Assad turned the Syrian army on his own population

Correct.

Vladimir Poontang

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's nothing to do with the US. It's domestic Syrian history. The military split, the officers that were against Assad formed the FSA.

All of this information is available - and sourced

Thanks for proving my point

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

No it was ordinary Syrians who decided they wanted change and Assad turned the Syrian army on his own population

It may have started off with genuine grievances against the Assad government, but now it just a jihad.

Get Real

I've been reading with interest on this thread lately, and have been reading both sides if the debate, I apologise for my ignorance in advance.

I've seen a lot on Twitter etc about Russian bots and pro Russian "news" channels on YouTube etc. By reading articles and the way they are phrased, they are pro Russian opinions.

Likewise though, governments in the West are at the exact same thing. I suppose it comes down to the amount of bull each side is spreading. Or maybe it suits to have confusion and conspiracies left right and centre for those people at the top on both sides?

"Good guys" seem to only be "Good guys" for as long as a particular power needs or wants them to be. A decade later this could reverse. Depending on who benefits from it or what is desired in world politics. This applies to both Russia and the West.

The UK gave the White Helmets 15million pounds between November 2015 and October 2016 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/factsheet-the-uks-non-humanitarian-aid-response-to-the-syria-crisis--2/providing-non-humanitarian-assistance-in-syria. This was the same year of filming the Netflix documentary. This government website also contains links directly to the White Helmets social media accounts.

Similarly, the UK provided 5.3 million specifically towards the funding of filming of events and promotion of videos and social media material.

The Russians have state influenced media and "bots". This is seen alone in the claims of articles with no actual backup (bz poison and the "independent" Swiss test for example).

So on the one hand we have a stereotypical assessment of Russia, a propaganda machine etc. Similarly though, the West is just as much a machine, funding and encouraging filming and spreading of news.

Funnily, the cinematographer of the White Helmets documentary was not allowed enter the US due to his past. It isn't elaborated on what that past is exactly. But again, it suits the West to have that film and show the atrocities of the Russian bombings. But then when the surface is scratched it's ohhh wait...

Both sides throw money at various groups. They don't seem to care who these people are as long as it fits a certain narrative.

I think both sides are at it, and portray a negative view of each other. Basically, it's sh#t stirring, but in an expensive, global fashion. Both sides may actually have legitimate points about the other, but it's all lost in a sea of crap.

Cheerful Spring

Get Real wrote: »

I've been reading with interest on this thread lately, and have been reading both sides if the debate, I apologise for my ignorance in advance.

I've seen a lot on Twitter etc about Russian bots and pro Russian "news" channels on YouTube etc. By reading articles and the way they are phrased, they are pro Russian opinions.

Likewise though, governments in the West are at the exact same thing. I suppose it comes down to the amount of bull each side is spreading. Or maybe it suits to have confusion and conspiracies left right and centre for those people at the top on both sides?

"Good guys" seem to only be "Good guys" for as long as a particular power needs or wants them to be. A decade later this could reverse. Depending on who benefits from it or what is desired in world politics. This applies to both Russia and the West.

The UK gave the White Helmets 15million pounds between November 2015 and October 2016 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/factsheet-the-uks-non-humanitarian-aid-response-to-the-syria-crisis--2/providing-non-humanitarian-assistance-in-syria. This was the same year of filming the Netflix documentary. This government website also contains links directly to the White Helmets social media accounts.

Similarly, the UK provided 5.3 million specifically towards the funding of filming of events and promotion of videos and social media material.

The Russians have state influenced media and "bots". This is seen alone in the claims of articles with no actual backup (bz poison and the "independent" Swiss test for example).

So on the one hand we have a stereotypical assessment of Russia, a propaganda machine etc. Similarly though, the West is just as much a machine, funding and encouraging filming and spreading of news.

Funnily, the cinematographer of the White Helmets documentary was not allowed enter the US due to his past. It isn't elaborated on what that past is exactly. But again, it suits the West to have that film and show the atrocities of the Russian bombings. But then when the surface is scratched it's ohhh wait...

Both sides throw money at various groups. They don't seem to care who these people are as long as it fits a certain narrative.

I think both sides are at it, and portray a negative view of each other. Basically, it's sh#t stirring, but in an expensive, global fashion. Both sides may actually have legitimate points about the other, but it's all lost in a sea of crap.

I disagree with one point the Russians only talked about the Swiss test today and they have contacted the OPCW to find out what they this was not included in the report!

weisses

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Exactly. Maybe Dohnjoe can tell us how many sorties did Britain and France carry out in Syria.

So, when is the next "gas attack" by Assad due? I'm sure it can arranged.

The coalition conducted around 25000 strikes in Iraq and Syria targeting ISIS ... Does that sound about right ?

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Free Syrian army started the uprising there no freedom loving democratic fighters joining them. They were a group funded by outside powers to destabilise Syria.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It may have started off with genuine grievances against the Assad government,

So which one is it

Chrongen

tayto lover wrote: »

They should target the person who orders the Chemical attack and wipe him out. Cruise missile straight into his sittingroom.
That way nobody would order one again because they'd know the consequence.

Cheers for dat.

I read your post as if it was spoken with Moore Street accent.

"D'ya know....whoy noh just bomb the gee off the pox-bottle whoooo AAAWWrdurd da stroike? Dat would stop i'r ALL"

How about this. One should target the person who is shelling your country. That would stop all wars.


:pac:

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

they have contacted the OPCW to find out what they this was not included in the report!

So the OPCW is lying ?

nacho libre

gandalf wrote: »

Hitting the Syrians while they are under the kosh! Well I suppose they saw what the Russians meant when they said they'd protect the Syrians earlier which was nothing. All talk and nothing to back it up.

The Russians and Americans more than likely worked out a deal for both to save face behind closed doors, despite all the noise coming from Russia. Russia was never going to do anything that risked escalating things to the point of war. American wasn't either.

The American action showed that, thankfully, Bolton did not have the final say. That's probably a dissapointment to the armchair war enthusiasts here who were hoping for a wider array of targets to be hit.

weisses

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It may have started off with genuine grievances against the Assad government, but now it just a jihad.

And what were these genuine grievances that kicked it off ?

Dohnjoe

Get Real wrote: »

The UK gave the White Helmets 15million pounds between November 2015 and October 2016 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/factsheet-the-uks-non-humanitarian-aid-response-to-the-syria-crisis--2/providing-non-humanitarian-assistance-in-syria. This was the same year of filming the Netflix documentary. This government website also contains links directly to the White Helmets social media accounts.

You do realise the "White Helmets" are an aid organisation? Like the Red Cross or Doctors without Borders. They dig men, women and children out of rubble.

A lot of them have died in service (they are volunteers). Recently they've become a target for Russian disinformation - which is why I suspect we are seeing some ugly conspiracies seeping into this thread

According to investigative journalists and analysts, SCD became a target of a systematic information warfare campaign by the Russian government, the Syrian government, the Iranian government, and their supporters, who have accused the organisation of taking sides in the Syrian Civil War, carrying arms and supporting "terrorist" groups.[90][10][6][7][91][92][87] According to The Guardian's Olivia Solon, claims by contributors to the English language Russian RT television network and Sputnik news agency have also come under critical scrutiny.[8] According to the fact-checking organisation Snopes.com these accusations against the White Helmets are unfounded.[93] Likewise, multiple journalists have raised serious questions as to the credibility and government ties of individuals making accusations against SCD.[94][95] According to The New York Times's Linda Qiu, Assad's claim that the White Helmets are "Al-Qaeda members" was "without evidence".[96]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)

Cheerful Spring

BlackWitch wrote: »

No not according to Russia, Damascus was one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the middle east, all religions basically got along, the west got involved and stirred up religious tensions between mainly shia and sunni's and all of the branching sects, flooded the place with weapons and money, all religions had lived side by side for millennia, then Saudi fathers start auctioning their sons as suicide bombers in Syria, the rest is history.

Have a look at the article in the Jerusalem Post if you don't want to believe Russia.
jpost.com/Magazine/Features/Jewish-Quarter-of-Damascus-blooms-again

Gatling does not want to know he looks at the world around him through John Rambo eyes.

Richard Hillman

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You do realise the "White Helmets" are an aid organisation? Like the Red Cross or Doctors without Borders. They dig men, women and children out of rubble.

A lot of them have died in service (they are volunteers). Recently they've become a target for Russian disinformation - which is why I suspect we are seeing some ugly conspiracies seeping into this thread


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)

Oxfam and UNICEF are aid organizations and are also filled with evil people. Being an "Aid organization" means nothing.

Cheerful Spring

weisses wrote: »

And what were these genuine grievances that kicked it off ?

People marching and protesting grievances is fine by me, and Assad did make mistakes in cracking down. Assad though agreed to reform before the fighting broke out across the country.

I think it was about the repressive state forces that started it off if I remember correctly?

kumate_champ07

found this yesterday, pretty strange

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgl271A6LgQ

Ash.J.Williams

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You do realise the "White Helmets" are an aid organisation? Like the Red Cross or Doctors without Borders. They dig men, women and children out of rubble.

A lot of them have died in service (they are volunteers). Recently they've become a target for Russian disinformation - which is why I suspect we are seeing some ugly conspiracies seeping into this thread


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)

Oxfam and UNICEF are aid organizations and are also filled with evil people. Being an "Aid organization" means nothing.

Yeah they save poor countries and then have sex with them for money

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You do realise the "White Helmets" are an aid organisation? Like the Red Cross or Doctors without Borders. They dig men, women and children out of rubble.

A lot of them have died in service (they are volunteers). Recently they've become a target for Russian disinformation - which is why I suspect we are seeing some ugly conspiracies seeping into this thread


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)

Ammar al-Selmo leader of the White Helmets in Aleppo is a known to be an Al Nusra former fighter. He is pictured online with his buddies.