Chemical weapon used on civilians in Syria + Airstrikes

Gatling

cnocbui wrote: »

A certain poster will be along later to troll and will start by blithely restating Lavrov's assertions as fact, pretending they had never seen your post. Then when challenged, they will deny the lab said anything to contradict Lavrov and that it clearly supported his assertions.

Unfortunately yes ..


But this cannot be denied -Lavrov and russia "Lied " fact

cnocbui

I was reading an article earlier and it stated that the Death toll in Syria is now estimated at around 700,000 and there is 75% unemployment.

And the culprit of all this is to be maintained in power and protected so that Putin can prevent a gas pipeline being built across Syria and maintain his income from selling gas to Europe and the power he thinks it gives him. Which is nearly non-existant due to the economics of getting LNG from the US and Australia if necessary.

gandalf

cnocbui wrote: »

I was reading an article earlier and it sated that the Death toll in Syria is now estimated at around 700,000 and there is 75% unemployment.

And the culprit of all this is to be maintained in power and protected so that Putin can prevent a gas pipeline being built across Syria and maintain his income from selling gas to Europe and the power he thinks it gives him. Which is nearly non-existant due to the economics of getting LNG from the US and Australia if necessary.

Don't forget maintain Russia's bases and flog Syria weapons as well. There's money to be made from supporting dictators!

Dohnjoe

Also the fact that the naval installation in Syria is it's last outside of the ex-Soviet Union. Basically, without Syria, Russia would lose any future influence on the M.E. So it's understandable why they are so keen to hold onto it

cnocbui

gandalf wrote: »

Don't forget maintain Russia's bases and flog Syria weapons as well. There's money to be made from supporting dictators!

How can Assad pay any meaningful amount for weapons?

And, of course, the Syrian economy has been wiped out too. The damage in terms of destroyed infrastructure and lost growth has already cost Syria a colossal $US226 billion ($291 billion), according to a 2017 World Bank report - an amount several times the nation's entire GDP back in 2011.

Isn't it a bit Ironic that people rightfully criticise the US for propping up right wing dictatorships during the cold war yet when Putin does exactly the same thing it's ok because ISIS - as if it hasn't already been shown they can be crusshed with Kurds and airstrikes. Long past time there was a legitimate Kurdish state.

jonsnow

Discodog wrote: »

It's really exceptional when a very senior official of a major country just tells lies.

No its not

cnocbui

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Also the fact that the naval installation in Syria is it's last outside of the ex-Soviet Union. Basically, without Syria, Russia would lose any future influence on the M.E. So it's understandable why they are so keen to hold onto it

Russia is trying to influence the crisis in Yemen so it ends up with a naval base at Aden, on the Red Sea. Lucky Yemeni's.

jonsnow

I don't know exactly whats going on in syria but I do know that the US/UK/FR are not carrying out any bombings to help the syrian people. That much I do know.

Gatling

jonsnow wrote: »

I don't know exactly whats going on in syria but I do know That much I do know.

Sure you know nothing Jon snow

jonsnow

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Also the fact that the naval installation in Syria is it's last outside of the ex-Soviet Union. Basically, without Syria, Russia would lose any future influence on the M.E. So it's understandable why they are so keen to hold onto it

The Russians have had naval bases in syria for more than 50 years I believe. Obviously its important to them. They are spending all that blood and treasure for a good reason as they perceive it.

Why are the americans in syria again? Under what international national i.e syrian or even internal US law or authority?. How many naval bases do the americans have outside of North America? They now have army bases in syria? Will they ever leave?

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Unfortunately yes ..


But this cannot be denied -Lavrov and russia "Lied " fact

Lavrov lied I will call for his sacking, but the lab is not telling the truth just read their tweet.

Spiel Laboratory said "Only OPCW can comment this assertion" that a strange way to deny it! You either found what Lavrov claims you did or you haven't?

They then go on to say "We have no doubt that Porton Down has identified Novichock" So they are not saying they themselves identified Novitchok?

cnocbui

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Lavrov lied I will call for his sacking, but the lab is not telling the truth just read their tweet.

Spiel Laboratory said "Only OPCW can comment this assertion" that a strange way to deny it! You either found what Lavrov claims you did or you haven't?

They then go on to say "We have no doubt that Porton Down has identified Novichock" So they are not saying they themselves did not identify Novitchok?

Just as predicted.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Lavrov lied

Oh look .......

Yes he did and some are already trying to deflect and deny

Cheerful Spring

cnocbui wrote: »

Just as predicted.

That I can comprehend what they said?

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Oh look .......

Yes he did and some are already trying to deflect and deny

Spiel Laboratory: We have no doubt that Porton Down identified Novichok. Ok, but what did your tests show why the deflection?

Billy86

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Spiel Laboratory said "Only OPCW can comment this assertion" that a strange way to deny it! You either found what Lavrov claims you did or you haven't?

Don't go snipping the quote like that, it's very dishonest.

Spiez Laboratory: "Only OPCW can comment this assertion. But we can repeat what we stated 10 days ago: We have no doubt that Porton Down has identified Novichock. PD - like Spiez - is a designated lab of the OPCW. The standards in verification are so rigid that one can trust the findings."

It's literally there in the post you were responding to. Here's their official Tweet on it, again for the same of honestu.

https://twitter.com/SpiezLab/status/985243574123057152

Cheerful Spring

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

YOU keep repeating the lies!
Stop pretending that Syria hasn't been invaded by thousands of foreign jihadists backed by NATO, the Saudi dictatorship and Gulf dictatorships.
The Syrian people with Russian help (the ONLY country serious about fighting terrorism) are fighting back and kicking these dogs out of THEIR country.
Accept it.

Discodog, I didn't read that Sunday Times front page but would that child be Yemini?

They're no talking to these people they want to believe the foreign fighters in Syria are Democrats.They still ignore the Syrian Free army fought alongside Turkey who is trying to wipe out the Kurds in Northern Syria.

gandalf

cnocbui wrote: »

How can Assad pay any meaningful amount for weapons?

Oil, long term leases for bases....

Cheerful Spring

Billy86 wrote: »

Don't go snipping the quote like that, it's very dishonest.

Spiez Laboratory: "Only OPCW can comment this assertion. But we can repeat what we stated 10 days ago: We have no doubt that Porton Down has identified Novichock. PD - like Spiez - is a designated lab of the OPCW. The standards in verification are so rigid that one can trust the findings."

It's literally there in the post you were responding to. Here's their official Tweet on it, again for the same of honestu.

https://twitter.com/SpiezLab/status/985243574123057152

And their entire tweet still does not show Lavrov lied The Tweet, in my opinion, strengths Lavrov position.

The lab would not say the found no incapacitating toxin known as 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate or BZ.. They just claimed we have no doubt Porton Down identified Novichock! Spiel Lab tested the nerve agent why are they not willing to be straightforward with people and just say Novichok was found?

Discodog

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

And their entire tweet still does not show Lavrov lied The Tweet, in my opinion, strengths Lavrov position.

The lab would not say the found no incapacitating toxin known as 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate or BZ.. They just claimed we have no doubt Porton Down identified Novichock! Spiel Lab tested the nerve agent why are they not willing to be straightforward with people and just say Novichok was found?

One of the reasons is that the OPCW won't openly publish names & formulae for very obvious reasons. They put them in the restricted classified reports.

Cheerful Spring

StringerBell wrote: »

So from reading some of the posts over the last couple of pages I gather that rather then come to an arrangement with regards to targets etc (which seems pretty certain) what people wanted to see was Russia to retaliate on behalf of Syria, shoot down all the missiles sent by the US or attack the source of the missiles and escalate the situation further?

To what end?

They are lunatics who want to see WW3. Fortunately, Mattis put a halt to that before it got out of hand. Trump and Bolton wanted to go further and risk escalation we just avoided a major war by having Mattis in the White House. This time we got away with it Mattis job may be on the line now? The deep state and military industrial complex bigwigs are probably upset this strike did go far enough, it does change the status quo in Syria. Russia, Iran is near total victory in Syria. The only way to stop this is to stage another event.

Discodog

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

They are lunatics who want to see WW3. Fortunately, Mattis put a halt to that before it got out of hand. Trump and Bolton wanted to go further and risk escalation we just avoided a major war by having Mattis in the White House. This time we got away with it Mattis job may be on the line now? The deep state and military industrial complex bigwigs are probably upset this strike did go far enough, it does change the status quo in Syria. Russia, Iran is near total victory in Syria. The only way to stop this is to stage another event.

You must be spying for the Russians if you really know that much - but of course you don't.

Skylinehead

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The lab would not say the found no incapacitating toxin known as 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate or BZ.. They just claimed we have no doubt Porton Down identified Novichock!

They are mutually exclusive statements. Can't be both.

Cheerful Spring

Discodog wrote: »

You must be spying for the Russians if you really know that much - but of course you don't.

We know this is what happened because of White House leaks. Sources have told the media that Trump and Bolton wanted further escalation and Mattis and General Dunford would not sign off on it. They got their way this time.

Discodog

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We know this is what happened because of White House leaks. Sources have told the media that Trump and Bolton wanted further escalation and Mattis and General Dunford would not sign off on it. They got their way this time.

Well ?

Cheerful Spring

Discodog wrote: »

Well ?

This was reported before the strikes I posted articles on it there were disagreements before this happened. Trump was unhappy with the military options handed to him.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The only way to stop this is to stage another event.

Haven't been following all your posts, you believe all chemical attacks in Syria that point toward Assad are "inside jobs" or just this one?

If so, can you explain how they are done and who does it and who knows about it?

Cheerful Spring

Skylinehead wrote: »

They are mutually exclusive statements. Can't be both.

No, they would not confirm or deny Lavrov claim. The Spiel Laboratory would not even say they had found Novichok they just said we believe Porton Down findings. Lavrov does talk about A 234 in his statement this is a chemical structure you find in Novichok.

pirlo80

Can anyone reccomend a non biased (bbc, cnn, RT) documentary on syria pls ? Everything I can find reeks of propoganda

Discodog

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This was reported before the strikes I posted articles on it there were disagreements before this happened. Trump was unhappy with the military options handed to him.

Is it really a surprise if a leader gets a series of options. It's called democracy & a very good sign. The worse thing is when people are scared to disagree & you get a dictatorship like Putin.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Haven't been following all your posts, you believe all chemical attacks in Syria that point toward Assad are "inside jobs" or just this one?

If so, can you explain how they are done and who does it and who knows about it?

I can't say all are inside jobs, I have not researched every claim of chemical weapons use in Syria.

The chemical attacks that Trump attacked Syria over are staged events at least they're not what they appear to be.

The one that happened this week was staged. A real bombing took place and people were injured and killed. People in Douma injured were brought to the hospital in Douma suffering from smoke and burns. While the doctors were caring for the patients. Men with cameras entered the hospital screaming this was a chemical attack and then relatives started panicking thinking they were exposed to a chemical agent. They started hosing down their kids and themselves with water and panic ensued. The men with cameras uploaded ( probably (jihadists) uploaded the footage to the web telling the world Assad just used chemical weapons against us.

Dohnjoe

pirlo80 wrote: »

Can anyone reccomend a non biased (bbc, cnn, RT) documentary on syria pls ? Everything I can find reeks of propoganda

Good overview here for the beginning of the conflict (only 5 mins)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5H5w3_QTG0

pirlo80

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Good overview here for the beginning of the conflict (only 5 mins)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5H5w3_QTG0

Thanks for that, Id seen it, and also pretty 1 sided... i found an al jazeera one that follows the rebels, Ill see if its any use and post if so

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The one that happened this week was staged. A real bombing took place and people were injured and killed. People in Douma injured were brought to the hospital in Douma suffering from smoke and burns. While the doctors were threatening the patients. Men with cameras entered the hospital screaming this was a chemical attack and then relatives started panicking thinking they were exposed to a chemical agent. They started hosing down their kids and themselves with water and panic ensued. The men with cameras uploaded ( probably (jihadists) uploaded the footage to the web telling the world Assad just used chemical weapons against us.

And what's your source for this?

cnocbui

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

No, they would not confirm or deny Lavrov claim. The Spiel Laboratory would not even say they had found Novichok they just said we believe Porton Down findings. Lavrov does talk about A 234 in his statement this is a chemical structure you find in Novichok.

Stop trolling. The Spiel Lab could not agree with Porton Down unless they tested the samples themselves and got equivalent results themselves.

mcmoustache

pirlo80 wrote: »

Can anyone reccomend a non biased (bbc, cnn, RT) documentary on syria pls ? Everything I can find reeks of propoganda

I don't envy your task there. You're going to have a hard time. A broad strategy might be to find sources who don't have a stake in it but even that can be challenging. Another is to use sources who are factual but biased and learn to understand how that bias influences the presentation.

Again, none of this is easy. Good luck.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

And what's your source for this?

Two medical professionals who work in the only hospital in Douma. They are videoed even in the video uploaded by the White Helmets to the internet. So we know for a fact they were there when the alleged attack took place and were not fakers brought in to tell a different story.

cnocbui

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I can't say all are inside jobs, I have not researched every claim of chemical weapons use in Syria.

The chemical attacks that Trump attacked Syria over are staged events at least they're not what they appear to be.

The one that happened this week was staged. A real bombing took place and people were injured and killed. People in Douma injured were brought to the hospital in Douma suffering from smoke and burns. While the doctors were caring for the patients. Men with cameras entered the hospital screaming this was a chemical attack and then relatives started panicking thinking they were exposed to a chemical agent. They started hosing down their kids and themselves with water and panic ensued. The men with cameras uploaded ( probably (jihadists) uploaded the footage to the web telling the world Assad just used chemical weapons against us.

The French intelligence analysis disagrees with you. Their medical experts who reviewed the reports and videos found them to be consistent with the use of chemical weapons, not acting. They also at length point out that this instance fits a long and consistent pattern of chemical weapons use by the Assad regime.

Discodog

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Two medical professionals who work in the only hospital in Douma. They are videoed even in the video uploaded by the White Helmets to the internet. So we know for a fact they were there when the alleged attack took place and were not fakers brought in to tell a different story.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Two medical professionals who work in the only hospital in Douma. They are videoed even in the video uploaded by the White Helmets to the internet. So we know for a fact they were there when the alleged attack took place and were not fakers brought in to tell a different story.

Yes, the source for this? links, etc

cnocbui

pirlo80 wrote: »

Can anyone reccomend a non biased (bbc, cnn, RT) documentary on syria pls ? Everything I can find reeks of propoganda

Wikipedia.

Dohnjoe

Snopes on the "staged" chemical attack propaganda and disinformation/smear campaign against aid workers in Syria
https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/04/12/disinformation-conspiracy-trolling-syrian-chemical-attack/

Scott Lucas, a journalist and professor of political science and international studies at the University of Birmingham, told us although Moscow became militarily involved in the Syrian conflict in 2015, they had a propaganda office at the presidential palace in Damascus since the beginning. “From the very start you could see how they were putting out muddled story lines just to make you uncertain about what’s happening,” he told us.

The White Helmets, also known by their official title Syria Civil Defense, are a non-governmental organization made up of volunteers who carry out rescue efforts in rebel-held territory while wearing small cameras. Aside from saving lives, they have been credited with documenting war crimes. Thus, they are targets of frequent (but unproven and unfounded) smears that they are terrorists who are staging “false flag” attacks.

Lucas told us attacking medical facilities and first responders then accusing them of terrorism is a Russian tactic, because first responders in Syria — where it’s extremely difficult and dangerous for foreign journalists to enter — are often key reporters of atrocities:

Another interesting snippet relevant to this thread..

Official Russian government channels are not the only sources of misleading information. Lucas pointed to a coterie of Western social media personalities and bloggers who have concentrated their efforts on running interference for the Assad regime.

Although their motivations are not entirely clear, they generally fall under three categories — people who cling to what they consider anti-imperialist views and fear potential Western-led regime change in Syria, people who equate current events in Syria with the lead-up to the 2003 Iraq war, and another group of activists who, without explanation, have migrated their activism from support for Palestinians in Gaza to support for the Assad regime.

These bloggers have actively participated in campaigns to denigrate the White Helmets, even opining the rescuers are legitimate military targets.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Yes, the source for this? links, etc

I posted a video of their confession in this thread, I can't find it at the moment on Youtube just go back you find it.

Cheerful Spring

Discodog wrote: »

There were in the hospital when kids were hosed with water, so yes they were there on that day fact.

Discodog

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I posted a video of their confession in this thread, I can't find it at the moment on Youtube just go back you find it.

Youtube as a source ? :rolleyes:

cnocbui

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Two medical professionals who work in the only hospital in Douma. They are videoed even in the video uploaded by the White Helmets to the internet. So we know for a fact they were there when the alleged attack took place and were not fakers brought in to tell a different story.

Do you know what deep fake videos are? Just because you see someone in a video and then someone in another context and video purporting to be the original person don't necessarily make it so.

kumate_champ07

cnocbui wrote: »

The French intelligence analysis disagrees with you. Their medical experts who reviewed the reports and videos found them to be consistent with the use of chemical weapons, not acting. They also at length point out that this instance fits a long and consistent pattern of chemical weapons use by the Assad regime.

why would they use chemical weapons when they've already won their war and they have inspectors in the area. why would they shoot themselves in the foot like that?

mass hysteria can casue symptoms of poisoning,

if theres already been explosions,panic,injuries and death, if you tell people theres been a chemical attack their minds will do the rest

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I posted a video of their confession in this thread, I can't find it at the moment on Youtube just go back you find it.

I just did, I can't find it, just post the link

Is this it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=53&v=AVswvR6G3go

Cheerful Spring

cnocbui wrote: »

Do you know what deep fake videos are? Just because you see someone in a video and then someone in another context and video purporting to be the original person don't necessarily make it so.

If I see a medical professional caring for patients when this attack was taking place on video I going to believe he was there.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I just did, I can't find it, just post the link

Is this it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=53&v=AVswvR6G3go

Yes, that's them.