Chemical weapon used on civilians in Syria + Airstrikes

Discodog

Gatling wrote: »

So nothing found no unexploded ordnance , missles ,bombs ....
No video or photograpic evidence what's so ever.

Odd no ?

They would of been parading around with lumps of cruise missile if they had hit any

Gatling

Discodog wrote: »

They would of been parading around with lumps of cruise missile if they had hit any

That's what I was thinking

TerrorFirmer

It does seem somewhat suspect that over 100 highly expensive and sophisticated missles - quarter of a billion dollars worth - were fired at three relatively minor targets. Why would they fire so much ordanance at such punitive targets?

Not saying they didn't, but it surely deserves questioning.

Elmer Blooker

Discodog wrote: »

Every news outlet is saying it. Apparently the OPCW aren't happy

I can't remember the OPCW being in such a hurry to get to Salisbury?

Gringo180

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

It does seem somewhat suspect that over 100 highly expensive and sophisticated missles - quarter of a billion dollars worth - were fired at three relatively minor targets. Why would they fire so much ordanance at such punitive targets?

Not saying they didn't, but it surely deserves questioning.

Usually when something doesnt make sense its not true. Just like Assad using chemical weapons = ZERO evidence of it happening.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The only people who believe the Russian claims are the many Putinistas on here.

You have got to learn to argue on the facts, not on name calling.

Vital Transformation

So one of the supposed "chemical weapons facilities" bombed was just a mere pharmaceutical research lab that produced anti-venom amongst other products for civilians.

Had been regulated and cleared by the OPCW, they even stayed in the building itself.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/at-destroyed-syria-lab-workers-deny-producing-toxic-weapons/articleshow/63764865.cms

Franz Von Peppercorn

Gatling wrote: »

So nothing found no unexploded ordnance , missles ,bombs ....
No video or photograpic evidence what's so ever.

Odd no ?

Yeh I reckon they get blown up before they get to the target. Probably that’s the point.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Vital Transformation wrote: »

So one of the supposed "chemical weapons facilities" bombed was just a mere pharmaceutical research lab that produced anti-venom amongst other products for civilians.

Had been regulated and cleared by the OPCW, they even stayed in the building itself.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/at-destroyed-syria-lab-workers-deny-producing-toxic-weapons/articleshow/63764865.cms

Interesting, these days, that this kind of reporting is never western.

mcmoustache

Gatling wrote: »

Has anyone produced any evidence of missles being actually shotdown over Syria at all ,
Surely if between 70-100+ various weapons were shotdown by antique russian missles there would be evidence like video of something .

Give it time. There'll be some footage of computer game along soon, some video from riyadh, some vhs from Iraq and a photoshopped google earth picture.

cnocbui

Vital Transformation wrote: »

So one of the supposed "chemical weapons facilities" bombed was just a mere pharmaceutical research lab that produced anti-venom amongst other products for civilians.

Had been regulated and cleared by the OPCW, they even stayed in the building itself.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/at-destroyed-syria-lab-workers-deny-producing-toxic-weapons/articleshow/63764865.cms

That article is a reporter parroting a Syrian government official without any corroboration or follow-up whatsoever. Talk about having the wool pulled over. I liked the bit about childrens toys - nice touch. I was rather skeptical until that was mentioned.

cnocbui

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Interesting, these days, that this kind of reporting is never western.

Yes, Western reporting would hopefully include some checking of claims made.

nacho libre

gandalf wrote: »

Nope the airstrikes were in response to the use of Chemical weapons which are prohibited. They were to show nations thinking about there use that there are consequences to their use otherwise continued use of them by the Syrians without a response would legitimise their use and no right thinking person would want that.

It would be nice to believe that.

With this in mind it's disingenuous of Theresa May to talk about not allowing the use of chemical weapons being normalised as a justification for the strikes, that there was a moral imperative to intervene in Syria to ensure this did not happen. If she was being sincere, why she is not also talking of bombing the Saudis for using banned munitions and the use of white phosphorous in dubious, to put it kindly, circumstances in Yemen. Maybe she will put such a motion to Parliment soon

gandalf

As horrible as White Phosphorus is it is not at the same level as Sarin or Chlorine gas and it does have a dual purpose and is legitimate for one of those. Then again it has been used by the Syrians and Russia in Syria and Russians have used it extensively in urban warfare. Apparently 1 in 5 shells used in the battle of Grozny by the Russians were White Phosphorus.

I do agree with you on the Saudis they do deserve attention as well but to my knowledge they haven't used prohibited Chemical Weapons.

kumate_champ07

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The coup in Iran in 1953 is an example of this. Iran in 1953 was a democratic country when the leader wanted to nationalise the oil for Iranian people. The British intelligence services and the CIA planned to set in motion a coup to overthrow the democratically elected government there and they succeeded. The West continued meddling later caused the 1979 revolution in Iran. Some People don't what to believe this because it's not what we are thought in school and by our media but this is the truth. We are in the Middle East to take resources, the real motivation for intervention, and millions of dead in the middle east is irrelevant

Iran before the revolution



https://imgur.com/a/o8KTR

nacho libre

gandalf wrote: »

As horrible as White Phosphorus is it is not at the same level as Sarin or Chlorine gas and it does have a dual purpose and is legitimate for one of those. Then again it has been used by the Syrians and Russia in Syria and Russians have used it extensively in urban warfare. Apparently 1 in 5 shells used in the battle of Grozny by the Russians were White Phosphorus.

I do agree with you on the Saudis they do deserve attention as well but to my knowledge they haven't used prohibited Chemical Weapons.

White phosphorpous is technically not prohibited , but it's use in urban warfare has not always been used legally, and not just by Russia and Syria.. At least you agree about Saudi Arabia, unlike some other hypocrites here who give them a pass because they are a US ally.

gandalf

nacho libre wrote: »

White phosphorpous is technically not prohibited , but it's use in urban warfare has not always been used legally, and not just by Russia and Syria.. At least you agree about Saudi Arabia, unlike some other hypocrites here who give them a pass because they are a US ally.

As I have said numerous times just because I am critical of Russia doesn't mean I don't see the US and their actions as a danger as well. Imho Russia are the bigger danger at this time to us in Europe.

I wouldn't expect the Brits to move in any way against their biggest market for Arms (Saudi Arabia) anytime soon though.

Dohnjoe

Gringo180 wrote: »

Usually when something doesnt make sense its not true. Just like Assad using chemical weapons = ZERO evidence of it happening.

There is overwhelming evidence of it

Even Russia concluded that Assad used chemical weapons as part of the joint investigative mechanism in 2016

Gatling

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You have got to learn to argue on the facts, not on name calling.

How about some actual facts then ..

But it's amazing about the name calling seems its a regular occurrence for several posters who keep posting the same regimes misinformation

Dohnjoe

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Interesting, these days, that this kind of reporting is never western.

Yes it is
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria/u-s-says-air-strikes-cripple-syria-chemical-weapons-program-idUSKBN1HJ0ZS

Also these are Syrian employees of the plant - maybe they are being truthful, maybe not. I'm not sure it would be healthy for them to admit producing chemical agents considering their situations

And perhaps they simply didn't know? intelligence reports suggest that only a small part of the plant may have been used to produce chemicals, potentially well hidden. Certainly to evade the OPCW who have visited the plant before

Franz Von Peppercorn

cnocbui wrote: »

Yes, Western reporting would hopefully include some checking of claims made.

Western reporters mostly wouldn’t go near Damascus.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Since the OPCW declared Syria chemical weapon free a few years ago and certified these buildings a few months ago it makes sense to believe the reports from Damascus.

Gatling

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Since the OPCW declared Syria chemical weapon free a few years ago/quote]

They also declared russia chemical weapon free too and look what happened "Novichok " used in an attempted assination in the UK and then the Russians lied about what the OPCW found .

And now the OPCW team in Syria can't access sites ,

Seems putin and assad are guilty of chemical weapons attacks

beefburrito

Gatling wrote: »

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Since the OPCW declared Syria chemical weapon free a few years ago/quote]

They also declared russia chemical weapon free too and look what happened "Novichok " used in an attempted assination in the UK and then the Russians lied about what the OPCW found .

And now the OPCW team in Syria can't access sites ,

Seems putin and assad are guilty of chemical weapons attacks

Well in fairness the site they can't access is an international crime scene.

Maybe when the sovereign country investigate the damage to their propagation research centre, which was illegally vaporised.
Then the investigation can begin.

Mr.H

Dohnjoe wrote:

Even Russia concluded that Assad used chemical weapons as part of the joint investigative mechanism in 2016

Link?

This attack on Syria was illegal. Just hours before people were due to check these locations for evidence, they just so happened to be bombed????

Ridiculous. The Americans are very likely the ones that spread any fake information about chemical attacks to get people behind trump in time for the elections at the end of the year.

Mutant z

Funny how human rights only seem to be a concern when its enemy states such as Libya, Syria and Iran. While the Saudi kings are given the red carpet treatment and weapons by the US and UK to use on civilians in Yemen with barely a murmur raised from either. Saddam Hussiens use of chemical weapons against Iran during the Iran/Iraq conflict and against the Kurds only became an issue when he became an enemy of the west a coincidence i think not. The fact is no one who's bombing Syria gives a damn about human rights its all about their own interests and propping up their own groups with the UK, USA and France its the rebel factions, in the case of Russia and Iran its Assad's government its just another proxy war which the rest of us will be expected to clear up while those responsible for most of the bloodshed will get off scot free as usual.

Dohnjoe

Mr.H wrote: »

Link?

https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/dc3651.doc.htm

Here's a timeline of investigations which has been posted before
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-opcw-timeline/timeline-of-investigations-into-syrias-chemical-weapons-idUSKBN1HG1M7

Mr.H

Dohnjoe wrote:

Here's a timeline of investigations which has been posted before

But you said Russia even concluded that Syria used the chem weapons. I can't see anything in either of those links that say that. In fact all I remember is Russia using their veto because they beloved the opposite was true.

I am not saying Assad shouldn't be dealt with. Come in the guy is evil. But the west are not acting like Angels.

I do not think it's unlikely that the Americans orchestrated the river, chemical attack, or fake news of a chemical attack in Syria. It wouldn't be the first time they interfered in other countries this way!

Discodog

Russia finally allowing the OPCW to inspect on Wednesday 5 days after their arrival

cnocbui

Discodog wrote: »

Russia finally allowing the OPCW to inspect on Wednesday 5 days after their arrival

Took that long for the fans to get rid of the swimming pool smell.

Elmer Blooker

Discodog wrote: »

Russia finally allowing the OPCW to inspect on Wednesday 5 days after their arrival

The OPCW didn't arrive in Salisbury until March 21st, 17 days after the alleged, suspected, highly likely, probable "chemical attack". There might have been missiles raining down on Salisbury that delayed their arrival but I don't seem to remember?

Funny how human rights only seem to be a concern when its enemy states such as Libya, Syria and Iran.

Our free and fair media cover up NATO "collateral damage" as much as possible. Example, the coverage of the pounding of innocent civilians in Mosul was kept to a minimum and the few reports were very brief.

Mr.H

Elmer Blooker wrote:

The OPCW didn't arrive in Salisbury until March 21st, 17 days after the alleged, suspected, highly likely, probable "chemical attack". There might have been missiles raining down on Salisbury that delayed their arrival but I don't seem to remember?

No proof the Russians did Salisbury either to be fair. Its just as likely the Americans or Brit's killed the spy for other motives.

Elmer Blooker

Mr.H wrote: »

No proof the Russians did Salisbury either to be fair. Its just as likely the Americans or Brit's killed the spy for other motives.

Its a joke - the pub, the restaurant, the door handle, the sealed off industrial estate, the BWW, the park bench ..... I'm sure there were others in this soap opera?
Where are the Skripals? You can sure of one thing, if they claimed that Putin was personally involved they would paraded in front of the media 24/7!

RebelButtMunch

Dust and not Gas?
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

Shurimgreat

Gringo180 wrote: »

Usually when something doesnt make sense its not true. Just like Assad using chemical weapons = ZERO evidence of it happening.

He was threatened with military strikes. You would think he'd be eager to prove as you said that chemical weapons weren't used. In reality he and Russia have done everything to prevent such an investigation. The Syrians and Russians are doing themselves no favours by preventing and slowing down an investigation. Slowing down and preventing a full investigation are not the actions of someone who knows they are innocent. It may play well with the pro Russia support base but implies guilt to everyone else.

Shurimgreat

Gatling wrote: »

Has anyone produced any evidence of missles being actually shotdown over Syria at all ,
Surely if between 70-100+ various weapons were shotdown by antique russian missles there would be evidence like video of something .

The Russians didn't even bother turning on their S400 system despite all the talk about shooting down missiles. Seems they were happy for Assad to take a hit on this one.

Shurimgreat

Mr.H wrote: »

No proof the Russians did Salisbury either to be fair. Its just as likely the Americans or Brit's killed the spy for other motives.

I'm sorry this is just bizarre.

Turned spies are valuable assets. So why get rid of a valuable asset? And if the US/UK tried to kill him, why did they apply the best healthcare to keep him alive? There is no logic to your post, except conspiratorial surmising.

On the other hand Russia openly threatened to murder spies who defected to the west.

Again, I think we know who is telling the truth.

Unfortunately for the Russians they seem incapable of telling the truth.

cnocbui

Mr.H wrote: »

No proof the Russians did Salisbury either to be fair. Its just as likely the Americans or Brit's killed the spy for other motives.

You can't say just as likely without providing credible motives and scenarios.

You don't account for behaviour patterns, which make Russia a dead certainty, not just equally likely. Do the UK and the US have a notable history of assassinating ex Russian spies who have been helpful? Do you think them murdering Skripal would help their chances of recruiting more Russian spies to defect?

Did you read about the Russian journalist murdered by Putin's thugs a couple of days ago?

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Its a joke -

Where are the Skripals? You can sure of one thing, if they claimed that Putin was personally involved they would paraded in front of the media 24/7!

One still in hospital and Yulia is currently in a secure location while she applies for asylum this is all public knowledge .

mcmoustache

Are they pulling a "false flag" on the Skripals too? Is everything a false flag or did they just get their scripts mixed up? Maybe there's a generic Russian Denial Script and "False Flag" is in there now.

Gatling

mcmoustache wrote: »

Are they pulling a "false flag" on the Skripals too? Is everything a false flag or did they just get their scripts mixed up? Maybe there's a generic Russian Denial Script and "False Flag" is in there now.

Apparently they don't like anything about the current situation ,
And they cannot provide any other possibilities of what was used and how it was used .

Apparently if someone applies for asylum they have been kidnapped and held against their will

RandomName2

Robert Fisk on the ground in Douma says that he doesn't believe that there was a chemical attack, but rather conventional bombing and mass panic.

Russia seems to be holding up official inspectors in Damascus, saying that they'll allow them access on Wednesday. A cynical person might say that they're giving themselves breathing room in case they need to clean up anything.

Hopefully this will be the end of the matter and all parties can move on. The Syrian government looks like its focusing on a couple of new rebel enclaves already.

Unfortunately the relations between the US and her allies and Syria and her allies is so frosty that I fear for what sort of consequences the next catalyst will have.

Discodog

RandomName2 wrote: »

Robert Fisk on the ground in Douma says that he doesn't believe that there was a chemical attack, but rather conventional bombing and mass panic.

Russia seems to be holding up official inspectors in Damascus, saying that they'll allow them access on Wednesday. A cynical person might say that they're giving themselves breathing room in case they need to clean up anything.

Hopefully this will be the end of the matter and all parties can move on. The Syrian government looks like its focusing on a couple of new rebel enclaves already.

Unfortunately the relations between the US and her allies and Syria and her allies is so frosty that I fear for what sort of consequences the next catalyst will have.

I listened to the short clip of Fisk posted here. I didn't hear him say that it was a conventional attack - he was quoting what the doctor at the clinic said. I am also very wary of short extracts - where's the full interview ?

nacho libre

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Our free and fair media cover up NATO "collateral damage" as much as possible. Example, the coverage of the pounding of innocent civilians in Mosul was kept to a minimum and the few reports were very brief.

To be honest i see no difference in what happened in Mosul than what took place in Aleppo. The terrorists in both places used human shields. Some people laud one, because their side launched it, and vilify the other because it's the side they oppose. Urbane warfare against jihadists who have a death fetish, was never going to be pretty. High civilian casualties in both operations were inevitable.

arybvtcw0eolkf

RandomName2 wrote: »

Robert Fisk on the ground in Douma says that he doesn't believe that there was a chemical attack, but rather conventional bombing and mass panic.

Russia seems to be holding up official inspectors in Damascus, saying that they'll allow them access on Wednesday. A cynical person might say that they're giving themselves breathing room in case they need to clean up anything..

In my opinion its probably right to hold the UN back from an area which is suspected of being contaminated until its safe to do so.

The Russians/Syrians probably have NBC experts and IED pers on the ground making the place safe.

After the father and daughter was poisoned in England almost a whole village was cordoned off for a number of days.

The US (and their allies) done the same in the Gulf and Kosovo after using depleted uranium (our own troops were screened for ill effects from DP after service in Kosovo) in their tank rounds and other armor-piercing munnitions.

nacho libre

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The Russians didn't even bother turning on their S400 system despite all the talk about shooting down missiles. Seems they were happy for Assad to take a hit on this one.

Which goes to show, despite the depictions, Putin is quite rationale. Russia and your American friends can at least agree on one thing: they don't want a world war 3. At least not those who have field experience.

gw80

Any one see or hear about the rally held in support of assad in damascus, literally thousands on the streets, i didn't see it on 6. 01 news. Ill tune in at 9. It will surely be covered, wont it?.

Discodog

Rogelio Eager Mink wrote: »

In my opinion its probably right to hold the UN back from an area which is suspected of being contaminated until its safe to do so.

The Russians/Syrians probably have NBC experts and IED pers on the ground making the place safe.

After the father and daughter was poisoned in England almost a whole village was cordoned off for a number of days.

The US (and their allies) done the same in the Gulf and Kosovo after using depleted uranium (our own troops were screened for ill effects from DP after service in Kosovo) in their tank rounds and other armor-piercing munnitions.

The OPCW are experts. They have to visit when the site is contaminated not after Russia have cleaned it up

Discodog

gw80 wrote: »

Any one see or hear about the rally held in support of assad in damascus, literally thousands on the streets, i didn't see it on 6. 01 news. Ill tune in at 9. It will surely be covered, wont it?.

There were rallies last night on Sky News. You do as you're told in Assad's Syria.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Discodog wrote: »

There were rallies last night on Sky News. You do as you're told in Assad's Syria.

Or people who don’t want the head choppers to kill them or their families, or to get bombed by the imperialists, decided to march.

Discodog

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Or people who don’t want the head choppers to kill them or their families, or to get bombed by the imperialists, decided to march.

It's very easy to spot "organised" marches/demos. If they aren't organised you end up shot or in jail.