Chemical weapon used on civilians in Syria + Airstrikes

nacho libre

Discodog wrote: »

It's very easy to spot "organised" marches/demos. If they aren't organised you end up shot or in jail.

I've seen this propaganda before with regard to Saddam. Just as Saddam had his supporters so does Assad. If Saddam did not have supporters in Sunni aeras of Iraq, there would have been no sunni insurgency after the War in 2003. They weren't all forced to support him, some did because they did well out of his rule. Just like Tyrants such as Pinochet, and the Argentinian junta had their supporters too. This myth that all support for dictators is coerced is a false narrative.

Gatling

gw80 wrote: »

Any one see or hear about the rally held in support of assad in damascus, literally thousands on the streets, i didn't see it on 6. 01 news. Ill tune in at 9. It will surely be covered, wont it?.

It looked like the trump inauguration -mostly empty ,
Seems he hadn't gotten the support that a minority on here claim is massive and in the majority

Johnny Farango

Someone was looking for the full Fisk article:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

And some analysis:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

Johnny Farango

https://www.globalresearch.ca/robert-fisks-douma-report-rips-away-excuses-for-air-strike-on-syria/5636530 Meant to post this with the Fisk article.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Discodog wrote: »

The OPCW are experts. They have to visit when the site is contaminated not after Russia have cleaned it up

Oh well that's me put back into my box, and all the while I thought they were a bunch of chance'ers :rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf

Johnny Farango wrote: »

Someone was looking for the full Fisk article:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

And some analysis:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

Cheers.

I've a huge amount of respect for Fisk, and actually had him sign my copy of 'Pity the Nation' when I met him in Lebanon.

His wife is Lebanese and comes from a village inside the old Irish battalion's area of operations in south Lebanon.

You'd have to be a complete imbacile to believe Assads forces (or the Russians) would use chemicals against anyone when they're more or less won the war, and certainly the battle for Douma. And not use them when his forces were in retreat.

Assad is no doubt a tyrant, and I know from speaking to work colleagues who's worked in Syria that the regime and people on their side ruled with an iron fist. But Assad is an educated man, he's no fool ~ certainly when you compare him to the idiot in the White House.

Not a chance did he gas Douma

nacho libre

Gatling wrote: »

It looked like the trump inauguration -mostly empty ,
Seems he hadn't gotten the support that a minority on here claim is massive and in the majority

I never claimed support for him was massive, just that there are those who support him. I do not claim to know how many support him

Gatling

nacho libre wrote: »

I never claimed support for him was massive, just that there are those who support him. I do not claim to know how many support him

I never said you did ,

But there is a minority who have regularly claimed the majority of Syrian want him in power based off not a lot other than making a nuence of themselves .

The majority of Posters don't support trump or American foreign policy either.

But that doesn't mean we don't get to discuss Assad and Putin

Gatling

It seems Assad has asked russia for a $400 billion loan to rebuild parts of Syria if the fighting ever stops.

cnocbui

Rogelio Eager Mink wrote: »

Oh well that's me put back into my box, and all the while I thought they were a bunch of chance'ers :rolleyes:

You should write scrips for CSI: ‘Get some bleach and clean up all that blood and those strange stains - and send the victims clothes to the dry cleaners, there’s dirt and handprints all over them. Then get the team to look for evidence.’

cnocbui

Gatling wrote: »

It seems Assad has asked russia for a $400 billion loan to rebuild parts of Syria if the fighting ever stops.

Putin will be laughing for a week solid.

RebelButtMunch

It's all gone a bit tumble weed in here isn't it. It's looking likely there was no gas attack at all. Oh Dear.

Gatling

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

It's all gone a bit tumble weed in here isn't it. It's looking likely there was no gas attack at all. Oh Dear.

Nah it's more of a case of not having to shoot down a constant stream of utter crap ,
Let's see what the OPCW say ,but there not allowed to attribute blame

RandomName2

Gatling wrote: »

But that doesn't mean we don't get to discuss Assad and Putin

There is no 'right' side in this conflict. We have to find what is the 'least bad' option going forward. All the sides are lying, all of them have their own agendas. None of the foreign powers involving themselves in Syria are doing so selflessly.

cnocbui

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

It's all gone a bit tumble weed in here isn't it. It's looking likely there was no gas attack at all. Oh Dear.

Fisk was very clear; he wrote an article that he was careful to point out he was quoting a possibly very biased source and was only able to cover one side of the story. He should have also talked to the White Helmets. We really need independent autopsies of those who died.

Looking at the facial discharges from the dead, I find it hard to believe anyone saying chemical weapons weren't used have actually looked at the videos. A room full of dead women and children and no blood or bodily trauma anywhere.

I suggest you have a look at the disturbing videos - you will need to age-verify on youtube by signing in.

ArchXStanton

cnocbui wrote: »

Fisk was very clear; he wrote an article that he was careful to point out he was quoting a possibly very biased source and was only able to cover one side of the story. He should have also talked to the White Helmets. We really need independent autopsies of those who died.

Looking at the facial discharges from the dead, I find it hard to believe anyone saying chemical weapons weren't used have actually looked at the videos. A room full of dead women and children and no blood or bodily trauma anywhere.

I suggest you have a look at the disturbing videos - you will need to age-verify on youtube by signing in.

The white helmets took off outta town with their Jihadi buddies..

Vital Transformation

cnocbui wrote: »

That article is a reporter parroting a Syrian government official without any corroboration or follow-up whatsoever. Talk about having the wool pulled over. I liked the bit about childrens toys - nice touch. I was rather skeptical until that was mentioned.

See the quotes from lab employees.

cnocbui wrote: »

Yes, Western reporting would hopefully include some checking of claims made.

The original report is from AFP.

cnocbui

Vital Transformation wrote: »

See the quotes from lab employees.


The original report is from AFP.

The lab employees work for the Syrian government. Hardly unbiased. 'oh sure, I knowingly make internationally banned chemical weapons all the time.'

You do know that anyone admitting to chemical weapons manufacturing in Syria would likely be tortured by Assads goons?

Shurimgreat

Fisk always has an axe to grind, usually that the West/Israel/Saudi are the bad guys and Assad/Saddam/Gaddafi/Hezbollah are the good guys.

He's hardly an unbiased commentator. You always know the line he is going to take.

Very few journalists would last long in Damascus if they openly criticised Assad so Fisk is never going to go down that route. As far as he's concerned Assad is the best thing to ever happen Syria.

cnocbui

ArchXStanton wrote: »

The white helmets took off outta town with their Jihadi buddies..

Attacking the White Helmets indicates you are such an independent thinker. I am bemused as to why people would fall for and help propagate such obvious Russian propaganda and misinformation.

News World
Disinformation and Conspiracy Trolling in the Wake of the Syrian Chemical Attack
Kremlin propaganda led to questions and charges that an attack in the city of Douma that killed scores of civilians was a hoax.
By Bethania Palma
12 April 2018


On 7 April 2018, reports began emerging from the opposition-held city of Douma east of the Syrian capital of Damascus that scores of civilians had been killed and hundreds injured in a chemical attack. In response to mounting global criticism, the Russian government, which has allied with the regime of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, ramped up its military-grade propaganda machine in an ongoing to attempt to obfuscate facts.

Although no blame has yet been officially ascribed, this latest deadly attack in the now 7-year Syrian civil war is not unique in that the Assad regime has for years been condemned for using chemical weapons against civilians. In 2013 the regime was accused of using sarin, a nerve agent, in an attack that killed more than 1,400 people in Ghouta.

Reports from the ground in Douma indicate there were at least two strikes, one at 4 P.M. and another at 7:30 P.M. local time. Canisters found at the scene along with symptoms exhibited by victims appear to implicate chlorine gas and “organic phosphorus compounds in the sarin gas category.”

U.S. President Donald Trump has openly blamed the Syrian regime and threatened a missile strike. After the Russians voted down a U.S.-authored United Nations Security Council resolution to investigate the attack, U.N. ambassador Nikki Haley accused the Kremlin of “protecting a monster.”

The disinformation machines have cranked up their propaganda offensive in response to criticism. Russia’s state-funded networks like TASS and RT began churning out stories reflecting the government’s talking points. Both outlets reported on 8 April 2018 that despite witness reports and graphic camera footage from Douma, Syrian government aid workers found “no evidence” of a chemical attack — a conclusion that to no one’s surprise, the Russian government corroborated:

The Russian defense ministry also refuted reports that the Syrian forces had used chemical weapons in Douma in Eastern Ghouta. According to Head of the Russian Center for Reconciliation of the Warring Sides in Syria Major General Yuri Yevtushenko, the allegations that a chlorine barrel bomb had been dropped in Douma by the Syrian armed forces came from the so-called independent non-governmental organizations, including the White Helmets, which is widely known for its fake news.

The Russian embassy Twitter accounts have also revved up the obfuscation efforts:


Scott Lucas, a journalist and professor of political science and international studies at the University of Birmingham, told us although Moscow became militarily involved in the Syrian conflict in 2015, they had a propaganda office at the presidential palace in Damascus since the beginning. “From the very start you could see how they were putting out muddled story lines just to make you uncertain about what’s happening,” he told us.

The White Helmets, also known by their official title Syria Civil Defense, are a non-governmental organization made up of volunteers who carry out rescue efforts in rebel-held territory while wearing small cameras. Aside from saving lives, they have been credited with documenting war crimes. Thus, they are targets of frequent (but unproven and unfounded) smears that they are terrorists who are staging “false flag” attacks.

Lucas told us attacking medical facilities and first responders then accusing them of terrorism is a Russian tactic, because first responders in Syria — where it’s extremely difficult and dangerous for foreign journalists to enter — are often key reporters of atrocities:

The Russians would go after hospitals and first responders and the propaganda would come out that you shouldn’t trust information from White Helmets or doctors because they’re aligned with the terrorists. They were deliberately bombing the area but saying you can’t trust anyone who is reporting it.

Official Russian government channels are not the only sources of misleading information. Lucas pointed to a coterie of Western social media personalities and bloggers who have concentrated their efforts on running interference for the Assad regime.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/04/12/disinformation-conspiracy-trolling-syrian-chemical-attack/

Gatling

I noticed in the fisk reports which seems to have been missed is when he talks about being on the bus for the media who were invited to tour certain locations , most of the media on the bus wore russian military uniforms ,
Makes you wonder how independent some of the media in Syria is and how much is steered by the russian military

ArchXStanton

cnocbui wrote: »

Attacking the White Helmets indicates you are such an independent thinker. I am bemused as to why people would fall for and help propagate such obvious Russian propaganda and misinformation.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/04/12/disinformation-conspiracy-trolling-syrian-chemical-attack/

Its right there in the article...here let me help you out...

"The White Helmets – the medical first responders already legendary in the West but with some interesting corners to their own story – played a familiar role during the battles. They are partly funded by the Foreign Office and most of the local offices were staffed by Douma men. I found their wrecked offices not far from Dr Rahaibani’s clinic. A gas mask had been left outside a food container with one eye-piece pierced and a pile of dirty military camouflage uniforms lay inside one room. Planted, I asked myself? I doubt it. The place was heaped with capsules, broken medical equipment and files, bedding and mattresses.

Of course we must hear their side of the story, but it will not happen here: a woman told us that every member of the White Helmets in Douma abandoned their main headquarters and chose to take the government-organised and Russian-protected buses to the rebel province of Idlib with the armed groups when the final truce was agreed."

Shurimgreat

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Its right there in the article...here let me help you out...

"The White Helmets – the medical first responders already legendary in the West but with some interesting corners to their own story – played a familiar role during the battles. They are partly funded by the Foreign Office and most of the local offices were staffed by Douma men. I found their wrecked offices not far from Dr Rahaibani’s clinic. A gas mask had been left outside a food container with one eye-piece pierced and a pile of dirty military camouflage uniforms lay inside one room. Planted, I asked myself? I doubt it. The place was heaped with capsules, broken medical equipment and files, bedding and mattresses.

Of course we must hear their side of the story, but it will not happen here: a woman told us that every member of the White Helmets in Douma abandoned their main headquarters and chose to take the government-organised and Russian-protected buses to the rebel province of Idlib with the armed groups when the final truce was agreed."

The clue for this is elsewhere in the same article.

The White Helmets, also known by their official title Syria Civil Defense, are a non-governmental organization made up of volunteers who carry out rescue efforts in rebel-held territory while wearing small cameras. Aside from saving lives, they have been credited with documenting war crimes. Thus, they are targets of frequent (but unproven and unfounded) smears that they are terrorists who are staging “false flag” attacks.

Of course they aren't going to wait around to be murdered by Assad to prevent witness testimony at any potential future war crime. They aren't dumb.

ArchXStanton

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The clue for this is elsewhere in the same article.



Of course they aren't going to wait around to be murdered by Assad to prevent witness testimony at any potential future war crime. They aren't dumb.

And yet they took off with a load of head choppers....must have been on the way to collect an Oscar, I wonder if their uniforms have velcro on the side so they can chop and change easily

Shurimgreat

ArchXStanton wrote: »

And yet they took off with a load of head choppers....must have been on the way to collect an Oscar, I wonder if their uniforms have velcro on the side so they can chop and change easily

Can't take your posts seriously especially when you seem determined to portray everyone who isn't on the Assad side as a head chopper.
I suppose the gassed women and children were head choppers too?

Like I said before it seems clear you are on a wind up.

ArchXStanton

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Can't take your posts seriously especially when you seem determined to portray everyone who isn't on the Assad side as a head chopper.
I suppose the gassed women and children were head choppers too?

Like I said before it seems clear you are on a wind up.

Everyone is on a wind up to you, obviously it's your problem that you can't except people have a different opinion,that particular "moderate rebel" group are known for their callousness

Annd9

Not a putinbot just a new account before anybody claims it .......

People are well within their rights to be sceptical about The White Helmets. The group was set up in Turkey by a brit , not a group of concerned Syrians which is widely claimed. Their leader was refused entry to The States on two occasions because of his links to actual "headchoppers "

We should also not forget their famous manikin challenge which proved they are more then capable of faking a rescue or two .

Disinformation is a massive part of the problem in Syria on both sides and it's perfectly reasonable not to believe these guys either.

cnocbui

Annd9 wrote: »

Not a putinbot just a new account before anybody claims it .......

People are well within their rights to be sceptical about The White Helmets. The group was set up in Turkey by a brit , not a group of concerned Syrians which is widely claimed. Their leader was refused entry to The States on two occasions because of his links to actual "headchoppers "

We should also not forget their famous manikin challenge which proved they are more then capable of faking a rescue or two .

Disinformation is a massive part of the problem in Syria on both sides and it's perfectly reasonable not to believe these guys either.

Could you please provide links that show the reasons why Raed Saleh was denied entry into the US, in particular, due to links to terrorist groups. Two articles I have just read said that even USAID who had sponsored his trip to the US to receive a humanitarian award, were not told the reason when they inquired.

When asked by Newsweek to provide details on Saleh's case, a spokesperson said U.S. Customs and Border Protection is “prohibited from discussing the specifics of an individual’s inadmissibility review.” There are more than 60 grounds for being denied entry into the U.S. detailed in the Immigration and Nationality Act, including health-related reasons, criminality and immigration violations.

An individual’s admissibility determination “is an administrative action that is protected by the Privacy Act,” according to Customs and Border Protection.

http://www.newsweek.com/raed-saleh-syrian-civil-defense-denied-entry-us-451637

So some proof of your claims please.

Shurimgreat

Annd9 wrote: »

Not a putinbot just a new account before anybody claims it .......

People are well within their rights to be sceptical about The White Helmets. The group was set up in Turkey by a brit , not a group of concerned Syrians which is widely claimed. Their leader was refused entry to The States on two occasions because of his links to actual "headchoppers "

We should also not forget their famous manikin challenge which proved they are more then capable of faking a rescue or two .

Disinformation is a massive part of the problem in Syria on both sides and it's perfectly reasonable not to believe these guys either.

Lol. Sure you aren't. Interesting your first post on boards.ie sounds like Russian propaganda.

Gatling

It seems somebody is trying their hardest to block the OPCW investigation into chemical weapons attacks

The head of a chemical weapons watchdog has said a UN security team has been shot at in Douma which has delayed the arrival of inspectors to the scene of a suspected poison gas attack.

UN security officers entered the Syrian town to assess the situation ahead of the planned visit by inspectors from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), sources said.


The OPCW inspectors are visiting Douma to investigate an alleged chemical attack on April 7 that it is claimed resulted in scores of civilians being gassed to death.

OPCW director-general Ahmet Üzümcü told a meeting at The Hague that the UN deployment came under gunfire on Tuesday

cnocbui

5 days on and Syria and Russia are still preventing the OPCW from visiting the sites in Douma.

I think that rather undermines the case of anyone saying they should have waited for test results.

CBS News found a yellow gas canister on the roof of a building allegedly targeted in Douma

cnocbui

There's a video of Russian troops and others just ambling about outside one of the gassed buildings in douma and entering it. Not the slightest sign of tension displayed by anyone so clearly there weren't armed hostiles in the vicinity at the time.

Whole thing is a charade.

arybvtcw0eolkf

cnocbui wrote: »

There's a video of Russian troops and others just ambling about outside one of the gassed buildings in douma and entering it. Not the slightest sign of tension displayed by anyone so clearly there weren't armed hostiles in the vicinity at the time.

Whole thing is a charade.

You don't know what (if anything) happened before and after recording that piece.

There may have been contact before, and sorted or the sh*t may have hit the fan right after filming.

War can be terribly boring much of the time too.

skepticalme

I don't think the video evidence that was shown is proof of anything. Nobody is coughing or showing symptoms. Some children are crying, as you would expect after being hosed down but their eyes look fine. The adults don't appear to have any problems. I've watched videos from both sides and it's obvious bodies are being moved and manipulated for photos.
I believe in Robert Fisks story. His story is also backed up by another reporter there from the US called Robert Phearson. They have found a city beneath the city, tunnels big enough to drive trucks through, built by jihadi prisoners, rooms full of arsenal and a chemical lab.
Robert Fisk was interviewed by Pat Kenny yesterday morning and when asked about the smell of chlorine from the backpack in a refugee camp that was on sky news. He said in the middle east people wash their clothes with chlorine so that wouldn't be unusual.

I too am skeptical of the white helmets. As far as I can tell they only operate in rebel held areas.

Gatling

Another one .

Seems this thread first stop for the newly registered lately

cnocbui

skepticalme wrote: »

I don't think the video evidence that was shown is proof of anything. Nobody is coughing or showing symptoms. Some children are crying, as you would expect after being hosed down but their eyes look fine. The adults don't appear to have any problems. I've watched videos from both sides and it's obvious bodies are being moved and manipulated for photos.
I believe in Robert Fisks story. His story is also backed up by another reporter there from the US called Robert Phearson. They have found a city beneath the city, tunnels big enough to drive trucks through, built by jihadi prisoners, rooms full of arsenal and a chemical lab.
Robert Fisk was interviewed by Pat Kenny yesterday morning and when asked about the smell of chlorine from the backpack in a refugee camp that was on sky news. He said in the middle east people wash their clothes with chlorine so that wouldn't be unusual.

I too am skeptical of the white helmets. As far as I can tell they only operate in rebel held areas.

Have you looked at the videos showing the corpses?

Elmer Blooker

I have absolutely no idea why some people question the impartiality of the White Helmets who have "no affiliation with any political or military actor".

The White Helmets receives charitable funding from the United States, the United Kingdom, and other western governments. Initially the United Kingdom Foreign and Commonwealth Office was the largest single source of funding through Mayday Rescue Foundation. As of 2016, SCD state they are also partly funded through Chemonics, a U.S. based private international development company. Funders now include the Canadian government Peace and Stabilization Operations Program, the Danish government, the German government, the Japan International Cooperation Agency, the Netherlands Ministry of Foreign Affairs. the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) and the United Kingdom Conflict, Stability and Security Fund (CSSF). USAID have contributed at least $23 million from 2013 to March 2016. The British government had provided £15 million of funding between 2012 and November 2015,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)#Partnerships_and_funding

cnocbui

Rogelio Eager Mink wrote: »

You don't know what (if anything) happened before and after recording that piece.

There may have been contact before, and sorted or the sh*t may have hit the fan right after filming.

War can be terribly boring much of the time too.

I guess those stories of Syrian and Russian forces having secured Douma were lies then. Funny how 5,000 Syrian troops haven't managed to rout the stragglers and can't protect even two buildings.

cnocbui

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea why some people question the impartiality of the White Helmets who have "no affiliation with any political or military actor".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)#Partnerships_and_funding

So governments fund them as they render humanitarian aid where no one else can. What is your point, if you have one?

SterlingArcher

Gatling wrote: »

It seems somebody is trying their hardest to block the OPCW investigation into chemical weapons attacks

The head of a chemical weapons watchdog has said a UN security team has been shot at in Douma which has delayed the arrival of inspectors to the scene of a suspected poison gas attack.

UN security officers entered the Syrian town to assess the situation ahead of the planned visit by inspectors from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), sources said.


The OPCW inspectors are visiting Douma to investigate an alleged chemical attack on April 7 that it is claimed resulted in scores of civilians being gassed to death.

OPCW director-general Ahmet Üzümcü told a meeting at The Hague that the UN deployment came under gunfire on Tuesday

Well I don't know about you Gatling. But considering the **** storm that was Iraq ( universally agreed).

You think the inspectors would have been the first port of call, and damning evidence.before bombing all the evidence into oblivion.

It is the equivalent of the cops torching the crime scene. Don't think for one second there are not constant eyes in Syria so any excuse of moving the supposed weapons are out of the question.

If you're suggesting that Syria and Russia are Trying to hamper the investigation. It be easier to just say no investigation happening full stop.

America landed it's biggest tank operation into Europe long before this. It has been pushing for war and I don't know how people after Iraq and lybia still don't get the picture.

I don't condone any of the **** Assad has done. But if you don't get by now that some countries demand blood to run them. And changing that only opens the bloody flood gates you have not being paying attention to how bad these countries turn after the " heroe$$$$$" step in.

Annd9

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Lol. Sure you aren't. Interesting your first post on boards.ie sounds like Russian propaganda.

Who said it was my first post on boards ? NEW account does not mean first post . God forbid I have an interest in what could be one of the biggest international incidents in my lifetime to date .
Where should I have posted first may I ask ?


@ Cnocbui , Being a newbie again I can not post links so you should have a look at the US State dept press briefing on the 27/4/2016 . Mark Toner is the one who mentions links to extremist groups ...
Their cinematographer was also refused entry so you can see why people might be sceptical ?

Manic Moran

nacho libre wrote: »

gandalf wrote: »

As horrible as White Phosphorus is it is not at the same level as Sarin or Chlorine gas and it does have a dual purpose and is legitimate for one of those. Then again it has been used by the Syrians and Russia in Syria and Russians have used it extensively in urban warfare. Apparently 1 in 5 shells used in the battle of Grozny by the Russians were White Phosphorus.

I do agree with you on the Saudis they do deserve attention as well but to my knowledge they haven't used prohibited Chemical Weapons.

White phosphorpous is technically not prohibited , but it's use in urban warfare has not always been used legally, and not just by Russia and Syria.. At least you agree about Saudi Arabia, unlike some other hypocrites here who give them a pass because they are a US ally.

To clarify, it is only an urban/rural distinction when the munition is dropped from aircraft. In all other cases, the normal rules on warfare apply. As a general rule (if there are exceptions, I can’t come up with any, though there may be some obscure ones), if it is legal to lob high explosives somewhere, it is equally legal to lob WP. It’s use has been somewhat reduced the last couple of decades due partially to the political issues associated with its use (I.e., for some reason people think getting burned with fire is abhorrent, but getting chopped up by projectiles is acceptable) and the fact that for a lot of purposes, other systems have been fielded which are more effective. In a fight as vicious as Grozny, the use of WP makes a fair bit of sense.

paw patrol

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea why some people question the impartiality of the White Helmets who have "no affiliation with any political or military actor".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)#Partnerships_and_funding

anybody who still believes the white helmets are impartial do-gooders is a fool

Discodog

SterlingArcher wrote: »

Well I don't know about you Gatling. But considering the **** storm that was Iraq ( universally agreed).

You think the inspectors would have been the first port of call, and damning evidence.before bombing all the evidence into oblivion.

It is the equivalent of the cops torching the crime scene. Don't think for one second there are not constant eyes in Syria so any excuse of moving the supposed weapons are out of the question.

If you're suggesting that Syria and Russia are Trying to hamper the investigation. It be easier to just say no investigation happening full stop.

America landed it's biggest tank operation into Europe long before this. It has been pushing for war and I don't know how people after Iraq and lybia still don't get the picture.

I don't condone any of the **** Assad has done. But if you don't get by now that some countries demand blood to run them. And changing that only opens the bloody flood gates you have not being paying attention to how bad these countries turn after the " heroe$$$$$" step in.

The missile strikes were nowhere near the site of the Chemical attack

cnocbui

Annd9 wrote: »

Who said it was my first post on boards ? NEW account does not mean first post . God forbid I have an interest in what could be one of the biggest international incidents in my lifetime to date .
Where should I have posted first may I ask ?


@ Cnocbui , Being a newbie again I can not post links so you should have a look at the US State dept press briefing on the 27/4/2016 . Mark Toner is the one who mentions links to extremist groups ...
Their cinematographer was also refused entry so you can see why people might be sceptical ?

Actually, Toner made no such reference, he was speaking in generalities to cover the department's embarrassment:

On April 27, 2016, State Department spokesman Mark Toner praised the group in a daily press briefing, claiming it has saved 40,000 lives. Asked why, if the group is so wonderful, ten days earlier their leader Ra'ed Al Saleh had his visa revoked and was sent back to Turkey when he tried to enter the US to receive a humanitarian award, Toner refused to make comments on specific visas but pointed out that if individuals have ties to extremist groups, this doesn't destroy the quality of work of other groups they might belong to. He mentioned that the "White Helmets" have received $US 23 million through USAID.

I suppose I could see how someone who cherry picks their news might have suspicions if they weren't aware of just how many people are commonly refused entry to the US. There are 60 grounds for refusal of entry into the US. Cat Stevens was refused entry to the US. Should the British government suspect him of links to terrorism? Should anyone else?

arybvtcw0eolkf

cnocbui wrote: »

I guess those stories of Syrian and Russian forces having secured Douma were lies then. Funny how 5,000 Syrian troops haven't managed to rout the stragglers and can't protect even two buildings.

I don't find that either funny, or strange tbh.

From what I'm reading there's a vast tunnel system (both above and below ground) in Douma. It wouldn't surprise me that there are lone wolf snipers operating there.

As for Russian's seemingly relaxed in that environment, troops can be left with a false sense of security and switch off. A video or photo snaps a very brief moment in time, I wouldn't read a whole lot into what I see posted ~ 'believe half or what you see, and none of what you hear'.

cnocbui

Rogelio Eager Mink wrote: »

I don't find that either funny, or strange tbh.

From what I'm reading there's a vast tunnel system (both above and below ground) in Douma. It wouldn't surprise me that there are lone wolf snipers operating there.

As for Russian's seemingly relaxed in that environment, troops can be left with a false sense of security and switch off. A video or photo snaps a very brief moment in time, I wouldn't read a whole lot into what I see posted ~ 'believe half or what you see, and none of what you hear'.

Robert Fisk braving death in one of the lone wolf sniper riddled tunnels beneath Douma



You crack me up, really.

Here's one of the buildings that the OPCW team had to be protected from: Warning, the video contains Russian troops ambling about, civillians milling about, bicycles and other equally disturbing material - not for the faint of heart!

arybvtcw0eolkf

cnocbui wrote: »

You crack me up, really.

Oh sorry, not sorry.

Well I don't have day and night to sit here chatting, life to be getting along with and all that ~ you know, that place where you walk away from boards.ie. Where there's no games console to play COD, and mammy isn't bringing you tea and bickies.

And I obviously can't compete with your combat experience which enables you to school us all here, COD PTSD is real bro?.

'Wars hell, and combats a killer'

G'day.

Ash.J.Williams

Fisk is no more than a Liberal looney lefty looney Liberal

arybvtcw0eolkf

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Fisk is no more than a Liberal looney lefty looney Liberal

One thing I'll say in his favor, and this is coming from someone who is largely pro Israel, pro USA.. If something you're doing is pissing off the Israeli's & the United States then you're probably doing something right!.