Chemical weapon used on civilians in Syria + Airstrikes

Gatling

Rogelio Eager Mink wrote: »

One thing I'll say in his favor, and this is coming from someone who is largely pro Israel, pro USA.. If something you're doing is pissing off the Israeli's & the United States then you're probably doing something right!.

So fisk a western can walk around freely but yet the OPCW investigation team cannot seems odd no ?
Nobody seems to taking potshots at the Russian military forces walking around wearing little body armour or plate carrier's

Elmer Blooker

cnocbui wrote: »

So governments fund them as they render humanitarian aid where no one else can. What is your point, if you have one?

And why do you think they only go places "where no one else can"?

Fisk is no more than a Liberal looney lefty looney Liberal

This "looney" actually lives in the middle east and is fluent in Arabic unlike some shill "journalists" sitting in London or Washington.

Annd9

cnocbui wrote: »

Actually, Toner made no such reference, he was speaking in generalities to cover the department's embarrassment:



I suppose I could see how someone who cherry picks their news might have suspicions if they weren't aware of just how many people are commonly refused entry to the US. There are 60 grounds for refusal of entry into the US. Cat Stevens was refused entry to the US. Should the British government suspect him of links to terrorism? Should anyone else?

Toner is clearly referring to that individual .
Journo : How can you separate the leader of the group from the group ?
Toner : I'm not commenting on his specific case , however, any individual thought to have links to extremist groups or deemed a security risk shall be dealt with accordingly.

Nobody ever asked a question about links to Extremists so why the need to say that ? His main message was not to blame the whole group for one individuals actions, again ,why the need to say that ?
What must he have done for it to reflect so badly on the group?

And like most sane people , yes I do cherry pick my news so I can hear different viewpoints and come to a logical and realistic conclusion on whatever subject that may be .

skepticalme

Have you looked at the videos showing the corpses?

Yes. I've looked at every video I could find. In my opinion proves nothing. Every video has the same group of people in one location. A couple of adult women and about 12 children. Some bodies are moved in different videos. Babies appear to be added. There is no foaming at all in most of them and one picture has what looks like shaving foam coming out of a victims eye and mouth.
I find it incredible to believe this could be the proof of anything.
  

Ash.J.Williams

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

cnocbui wrote: »

So governments fund them as they render humanitarian aid where no one else can. What is your point, if you have one?

And why do you think they only go places "where no one else can"?

Fisk is no more than a Liberal looney lefty looney Liberal

This "looney" actually lives in the middle east and is fluent in Arabic unlike some shill "journalists" sitting in London or Washington.

I was joking

cnocbui

skepticalme wrote: »

Have you looked at the videos showing the corpses?

Yes. I've looked at every video I could find. In my opinion proves nothing. Every video has the same group of people in one location. A couple of adult women and about 12 children. Some bodies are moved in different videos. Babies appear to be added. There is no foaming at all in most of them and one picture has what looks like shaving foam coming out of a victims eye and mouth.
I find it incredible to believe this could be the proof of anything.
  

Medical specialists familiar with chemical warfare looked at those same videos and concluded they appeared genuine and consistent with what they would expect from chemical weapons use, you put your opinion ahead of theirs then because you know better?

cnocbui

Rogelio Eager Mink wrote: »

Oh sorry, not sorry.

Well I don't have day and night to sit here chatting, life to be getting along with and all that ~ you know, that place where you walk away from boards.ie. Where there's no games console to play COD, and mammy isn't bringing you tea and bickies.

And I obviously can't compete with your combat experience which enables you to school us all here, COD PTSD is real bro?.

'Wars hell, and combats a killer'

G'day.

Funnily enough, I am the one who used to provide milk and bikkies to the COD player.

All this militaristic lingo you like throw about for effect, I can't tell you how much it impresses me. :rolleyes:

Shurimgreat

Annd9 wrote: »

Who said it was my first post on boards ? NEW account does not mean first post . God forbid I have an interest in what could be one of the biggest international incidents in my lifetime to date .
Where should I have posted first may I ask ?


@ Cnocbui , Being a newbie again I can not post links so you should have a look at the US State dept press briefing on the 27/4/2016 . Mark Toner is the one who mentions links to extremist groups ...
Their cinematographer was also refused entry so you can see why people might be sceptical ?

And what was your previous username out of interest?

kaymin

cnocbui wrote: »

Medical specialists familiar with chemical warfare looked at those same videos and concluded they appeared genuine and consistent with what they would expect from chemical weapons use, you put your opinion ahead of theirs then because you know better?

How about taking in the views of a doctor that was actually on the ground in Douma:

Fisk goes on to identify the doctor by name – Dr. Assim Rahaibani – which is notable given the fact that all early reporting from Douma typically relied on “unnamed doctors” and anonymous opposition sources for early claims of a chlorine gas attack (lately morphed into an unverified “mixed” chlorine-and-sarin attack).

The doctor’s testimony is consistent with that of the well-known Syrian opposition group Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR), which initially reported based on its own pro-rebel sourcing that heavy government bombardment of Douma city resulted in the collapse of homes and underground shelters, causing civilians in hiding to suffocate.

According to SOHR, which has long been a key go-to source for mainstream media over the course of the war, “70 of them [women and children] have suffered suffocation as a result of the demolition of home basements over them due to the heavy and intense shelling.

Fisk details the Syrian doctor’s testimony, who is adamant in his emphasis that civilians were suffocating en masse, and were not gassed:

It was a short walk to Dr Rahaibani. From the door of his subterranean clinic–“Point 200”, it is called, in the weird geology of this partly-underground city–is a corridor leading downhill where he showed me his lowly hospital and the few beds where a small girl was crying as nurses treated a cut above her eye.

“I was with my family in the basement of my home three hundred metres from here on the night but all the doctors know what happened. There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night–but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a “White Helmet”, shouted “Gas!”, and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia–not gas poisoning.”

cnocbui

Comedy gold. You couldn't make this up!

April 12, 2018 / 5:45 PM / 7 days ago
Syria says will holds West responsible for any obstruction to OPCW mission

AMMAN (Reuters) - Syria said on Thursday it would hold the West responsible for any delay in the arrival of a mission from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) to investigate a suspected chemical attack.

A source in the foreign ministry was quoted as saying in a news flash on state television that Western parties were seeking to obstruct the mission’s task and “meddle in its work”.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-opcw/syria-says-will-holds-west-responsible-for-any-obstruction-to-opcw-mission-idUSKBN1HJ2TM

And a week on and the OPCW still haven't gone on site due to Syrian/Russian obstruction.

This is reminiscent of Russia pre-warning of the Syrian governments chemical attack in Douma by claiming a false-flag avent was about to occur.

Bit of a pattern forming here: pre-announce to the world your bad deeds - pre-blaming the opposition as being the real culprits, and expect the world to be collectively thick and unable to see through your ruse.

RebelButtMunch

cnocbui wrote: »

Comedy gold. You couldn't make this up!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-opcw/syria-says-will-holds-west-responsible-for-any-obstruction-to-opcw-mission-idUSKBN1HJ2TM

And a week on and the OPCW still haven't gone on site due to Syrian/Russian obstruction.

This is reminiscent of Russia pre-warning of the Syrian governments chemical attack in Douma by claiming a false-flag avent was about to occur.

Bit of a pattern forming here: pre-announce to the world your bad deeds - pre-blaming the opposition as being the real culprits, and expect the world to be collectively thick and unable to see through your ruse.

Have a look here, its not Russian obstruction
https://www.opcw.org/news/article/media-alert-update-on-the-deployment-of-the-opcw-fact-finding-mission-to-douma-syria/

On arrival at Site 1, a large crowd gathered and the advice provided by the UNDSS was that the reconnaissance team should withdraw. At Site 2, the team came under small arms fire and an explosive was detonated. The reconnaissance team returned to Damascus.

Shurimgreat

kaymin wrote: »

How about taking in the views of a doctor that was actually on the ground in Douma:

Fisk goes on to identify the doctor by name – Dr. Assim Rahaibani – which is notable given the fact that all early reporting from Douma typically relied on “unnamed doctors” and anonymous opposition sources for early claims of a chlorine gas attack (lately morphed into an unverified “mixed” chlorine-and-sarin attack).

The doctor’s testimony is consistent with that of the well-known Syrian opposition group Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR), which initially reported based on its own pro-rebel sourcing that heavy government bombardment of Douma city resulted in the collapse of homes and underground shelters, causing civilians in hiding to suffocate.

According to SOHR, which has long been a key go-to source for mainstream media over the course of the war, “70 of them [women and children] have suffered suffocation as a result of the demolition of home basements over them due to the heavy and intense shelling.

Fisk details the Syrian doctor’s testimony, who is adamant in his emphasis that civilians were suffocating en masse, and were not gassed:

It was a short walk to Dr Rahaibani. From the door of his subterranean clinic–“Point 200”, it is called, in the weird geology of this partly-underground city–is a corridor leading downhill where he showed me his lowly hospital and the few beds where a small girl was crying as nurses treated a cut above her eye.

“I was with my family in the basement of my home three hundred metres from here on the night but all the doctors know what happened. There was a lot of shelling [by government forces] and aircraft were always over Douma at night–but on this night, there was wind and huge dust clouds began to come into the basements and cellars where people lived. People began to arrive here suffering from hypoxia, oxygen loss. Then someone at the door, a “White Helmet”, shouted “Gas!”, and a panic began. People started throwing water over each other. Yes, the video was filmed here, it is genuine, but what you see are people suffering from hypoxia–not gas poisoning.”

So if its not gas why are the Russians so reluctant to let in the inspectors? Why did they try to veto an investigation.

Shurimgreat

cnocbui wrote: »

Comedy gold. You couldn't make this up!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-opcw/syria-says-will-holds-west-responsible-for-any-obstruction-to-opcw-mission-idUSKBN1HJ2TM

And a week on and the OPCW still haven't gone on site due to Syrian/Russian obstruction.

This is reminiscent of Russia pre-warning of the Syrian governments chemical attack in Douma by claiming a false-flag avent was about to occur.

Bit of a pattern forming here: pre-announce to the world your bad deeds - pre-blaming the opposition as being the real culprits, and expect the world to be collectively thick and unable to see through your ruse.

First Russia/Syria/RT/ etc said there was no chemical attack.
Then they said it was a staged chemical attack.
Then they prevent inspectors investigating the scene of this "staged attack".
On one level you have to laugh at the Russians. They are so blatant in their disregard for the truth. I guess they have gotten used to killing with impunity and supporting others who kill with impunity.

cnocbui

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Have a look here, its not Russian obstruction
https://www.opcw.org/news/article/media-alert-update-on-the-deployment-of-the-opcw-fact-finding-mission-to-douma-syria/

On arrival at Site 1, a large crowd gathered and the advice provided by the UNDSS was that the reconnaissance team should withdraw. At Site 2, the team came under small arms fire and an explosive was detonated. The reconnaissance team returned to Damascus.

An article stated 5000 Syrian and Russian troops had entered Douma. I don't believe the small arms fire and explosion were due to remaining rebel forces. Which leaves....

You also didn't mention the nonsense for the first few days of the Syrians claiming the team didn't have the correct UN documents and thus refusing them access

RebelButtMunch

cnocbui wrote: »

An article stated 5000 Syrian and Russian troops had entered Douma. I don't believe the small arms fire and explosion were due to remaining rebel forces. Which leaves....

pure speculation?

cnocbui

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

pure speculation?

Well obviously, but it isn't credible that with 5000 troops they can't keep a crowd back or provide security.

RebelButtMunch

cnocbui wrote: »

Well obviously, but it isn't credible that with 5000 troops they can't keep a crowd back or provide security.

I'd think it would be credible. I can imagine a place like that is swamped with guns and explosives outside the hands of Russians.

skepticalme

It seems it is only the UK delegation OPCW that are saying the russians and syrians are blocking them from Douma. The official OPCW page makes no such allegation.

Discodog

skepticalme wrote: »

It seems it is only the UK delegation OPCW that are saying the russians and syrians are blocking them from Douma. The official OPCW page makes no such allegation.

It says they were attacked in an area swarming with Syrian & Russian troops.

Annd9

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And what was your previous username out of interest?

You have still have not provided the section of this forum that you expect first time (or lapsed ) members to contribute. My feeling is , because I have a different opinion to yourself that you felt the need to question my motivation.

Why would you not be sceptical about a group founded by a former brittish army intelligence officer claiming to be the Syrian civil defence ?
All the while , the ACTUAL internationally recognised Syrian civil defense are in the shadows crying out for some funding .

Every player in this conflict are spinning stories to suit their own narrative, if you question one it does not mean you believe the others

Barry Badrinath

cnocbui wrote: »

Well obviously, but it isn't credible that with 5000 troops they can't keep a crowd back or provide security.

When the individual rebel groups agreed to cease hostilities and opt for a relocation deal, there was also another offer. This offer was to cease fighting, come to an arrangement with the Syrian government and remain in Eastern Ghouta.

There are still rebel fighters located in the area, some of whom had no say in the matter to relocate. Some did not want to go Eastern Qalamoun, Idlib or Aleppo. They wanted to stay and fight. Not to mention the ISIS pocket in the southern Damascus suburbs.

It is very logical, that one of the tens of thousand members of Jaysh al-Islam, Ahrar al-Sham, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, Faylaq al-Rahman or ISIS would be able to take a few pot shots at a safe distance.

If you think that there is no more shooting in Damascus....you are very wrong.

skepticalme

They found the 11 year old boy in the hospital video supposedly gassed. The one who is hosed and told to swallow the ventolin inhaler. He is safe and well, and says he was paid in cookies for his part in the theatrics.

Gatling

skepticalme wrote: »

They found the 11 year old boy in the hospital video supposedly gassed.

Who said

nacho libre

According to some media reports the Yazidis in Afrin are now being persecuted by members of the so called moderate rebels which are backed by Turkey.
With this in mind someone mentioned earlier that Bashar Assad had asked for a loan to rebuild parts of Syria, is this a tacit admission by him that he knows he will never be able to reclaim all territory? If his forces do retake Idlib i don't see him then risking a direct confrontation with Turkey. Perhaps we will then see a deal being done by all sides. Or is that too optimistic?

skepticalme

Gatling wrote: »

Who said

He said it himself. His name is Hassan Diab.

Discodog

skepticalme wrote: »

He said it himself. His name is Hassan Diab.

He meant where's the link?

Gatling

Discodog wrote: »

skepticalme wrote: »

He said it himself. His name is Hassan Diab.

He meant where's the link?

It's a sputnik exposé

Safe to say it's fake

skepticalme

Russia said they are presenting his evidence to the UN. He looks fine anyway.

Gatling

skepticalme wrote: »

Russia said they are presenting his evidence to the UN. He looks fine anyway.

Russia said this and russia said that yada yada yada.

Russia trying to deflect from the current blocked OPCW investigation .
Russia is lying

Discodog

skepticalme wrote: »

Russia said they are presenting his evidence to the UN. He looks fine anyway.

Probably terrified.

cnocbui

More comedy gold from Russia:

All Conditions Created for OPCW to Work Normally in Douma, Russian Envoy Says
Middle East
06:07 17.04.2018(updated 14:18 19.04.2018)

GENEVA (Sputnik) – The Syrian authorities have created all conditions for the normal work of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons experts in Syria’s Douma, their safety is being ensured, Russian Permanent Representative to the UN Office in Geneva Gennady Gatilov said Monday.

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201804171063632977-opcw-douma-condition-ceated/

So the shots fired were a Syrian/Russian ruse, as suspected, since the inspectors safety was assured. You could only do that if you were the ones doing the shooting.

Gatling

cnocbui wrote: »

More comedy gold from Russia:

All Conditions Created for OPCW to Work Normally in Douma, Russian Envoy Says
Middle East
06:07 17.04.2018(updated 14:18 19.04.2018)

GENEVA (Sputnik) – The Syrian authorities have created all conditions for the normal work of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons experts in Syria’s Douma, their safety is being ensured,

So the shots fired were a Syrian/Russian ruse, as suspected, since the inspectors safety was assured. You could only do that if you were the ones doing the shooting.

Absolutely that's the case delay , block and deflection .
Seems to be the same tactics employed here on boards

RebelButtMunch

cnocbui wrote: »

More comedy gold from Russia:

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201804171063632977-opcw-douma-condition-ceated/

So the shots fired were a Syrian/Russian ruse, as suspected, since the inspectors safety was assured. You could only do that if you were the ones doing the shooting.

How did you get that form that article

Shurimgreat

I always find it amusing when armchair experts speaking from their front room or bedroom in Ireland with no chemical weapons experience, claim to know more than actual chemical weapons experts who have spent decades in the field.

Lets leave this to the chemical weapons experts.
Which in turn begs the question have they been allowed to investigate yet or are they still being delayed?

RebelButtMunch

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I always find it amusing when armchair experts speaking from their front room or bedroom in Ireland with no chemical weapons experience, claim to know more than actual chemical weapons experts who have spent decades in the field.

Lets leave this to the chemical weapons experts.
Which in turn begs the question have they been allowed to investigate yet or are they still being delayed?

No update here since the 18th
https://www.opcw.org/special-sections/syria/press-releases/

cnocbui

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

How did you get that form that article

It's in the post you quoted - plain as day.

RebelButtMunch

cnocbui wrote: »

It's in the post you quoted - plain as day.

I don't think so. It says
" At Site 2, the team came under small arms fire and an explosive was detonated. The reconnaissance team returned to Damascus."

Where does it say who did the shooting?

cnocbui

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

I don't think so. It says
" At Site 2, the team came under small arms fire and an explosive was detonated. The reconnaissance team returned to Damascus."

Where does it say who did the shooting?

Err...

since the inspectors safety was assured. You could only do that if you were the ones doing the shooting.

RebelButtMunch

cnocbui wrote: »

Err...

Are we getting our wires crossed?
I posted this
https://www.opcw.org/news/article/media-alert-update-on-the-deployment-of-the-opcw-fact-finding-mission-to-douma-syria/

The word 'shooting' doesnt appear in that.

kaymin

'since the inspectors safety was assured. You could only do that if you were the ones doing the shooting.'

Or you've just secured the area and eliminated the threat.

cnocbui

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Are we getting our wires crossed?
I posted this
https://www.opcw.org/news/article/media-alert-update-on-the-deployment-of-the-opcw-fact-finding-mission-to-douma-syria/

The word 'shooting' doesnt appear in that.

Are you trying really hard to be clever?

the team came under small arms fire and an explosive was detonated

RebelButtMunch

cnocbui wrote: »

Are you trying really hard to be clever?

Not at all. I'm still confused where you got this statement from
"So the shots fired were a Syrian/Russian ruse, as suspected, since the inspectors safety was assured. You could only do that if you were the ones doing the shooting."

I thought I missed it in the press release, but actually you've inferred it. Is that right?

cnocbui

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Not at all. I'm still confused where you got this statement from
"So the shots fired were a Syrian/Russian ruse, as suspected, since the inspectors safety was assured. You could only do that if you were the ones doing the shooting."

I thought I missed it in the press release, but actually you've inferred it. Is that right?

Yes I have inferred it. You can't have shots and explosions from hostiles and be guaranteeing security. Either the guarantee of security was a lie or the shots and explosion were.

skepticalme

From the OPCW statement.

The UNDSS will continue to work with the Syrian National Authority, the local Councils in Douma, and the Russian Military Police to review the security situation. At present, we do not know when the FFM team can be deployed to Douma.
Of course, I shall only consider such deployment following APPROVAL FROM THE UNDSS, and provided that our team can have unhindered access to the sites.

It is UN security that are not letting the inspectors in yet, not the russians.

Also the inspectors were not in Douma, it was the UNDSS that had the problems at the 2 sites.


On another note, the State Department spokesman was asked by a journalist about an internal state dept memo that stated funding for the 'white helmets' was being discontinued on April 15th.

Gringo180

The people of Syria hate Assad so much he can drive himself through Damascus without any sort of armed convoy or armoured car. Yes definitely looks like a man who gasses his own people.

Gatling

Gringo180 wrote: »

The people of Syria hate Assad so much he can drive himself through Damascus without any sort of armed convoy or armoured car. Yes definitely looks like a man who gasses his own people.

You would have to be serious issues to think he actually did that without any military force protection ,
Gunships , troops , vehicles and special forces would have been all over him..

But it must feel nice being part of the assputin propaganda machine

Gringo180

Gatling wrote: »

You would have to be serious issues to think he actually did that without any military force protection ,
Gunships , troops , vehicles and special forces would have been all over him..

But it must feel nice being part of the assputin propaganda machine

https://youtu.be/jUZR7RDxkSs

RandomName2

Looks like ISIL presence in Damascus is being cleared out, along with the other rebel enclaves. At least one of these rebel positions have surrendered without a shot being fired. That's progress! One of the enclaves that surrendered still had a number of operational tanks which they handed over to the Syrian army (T60s, etc.)

Of course none of the rebels (even ISIL) fighters are going to be incarcerated, but rather bussed to other territory they still control. The war's not over yet.

zom

Mutant z wrote: »

While the Saudi kings are given the red carpet treatment and weapons by the US and UK to use on civilians in Yemen with barely a murmur raised from either.

Not have to wait long - Saudi-led military coalition have killed at least 20 people attending a wedding in a village in northwestern Yemen:

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/0423/956482-yemen-air-strikes/

Elmer Blooker

Discreetly tucked away by their British friends, see if you can find it on BBC News folks.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world/middle_east