AI Senior Hurling- Liam McCarthy Cup 2018

MfMan

jacool wrote: »

He was rubbish for both sides. Limerick, if they could shoot, would have, and should have, won by 10 points. they should have been 8 ahead at half-time.

Outside of Galway's forwards not turning up, biggest disappointment was all the booing for Galway's frees in the first half. That stuff should be left to the other sports. Strangely, it died down in the second half. Don't know if that was to do with the margin between the sides or not.

In balance, there was a little bit for Lk's frees too, the one for the contentious foul on P Mannion anyway.

letowski

Pussyhands wrote: »

What happened Galways forwards in the last few weeks? The wides v Clare and Limerick were shocking. Weren't they shocking v KK in croker too?

Galway's style of hurling is very agricultural. I think DOnoghue is a good manager and bring high standards to Galway, but his brand of hurling is very taxing on his forwards. Yes, Galway have a big forward line that can win their own ball, and against a smaller team like Clare, they can run you over. They did that in the opening 25 minutes in both games against us.

But up against a Limerick team with a tall half back line that can complete with Galway, their brand of hurling looks very one dimensional. The likes of Conor Cooney, Conor Whelan and Cathal Mannion are top forwards on their day but Galway's brand of hurling doesn't allow for them to be played into space. The ball usually goes down on top of them with a back. I honestly can remember once on Sunday one of those 3 forwards running onto a diagonal ball into space. Cooney hit 4 balls wide but they were all pot shots, it wasn't like he was missing straight forward opportunities because he wasn't getting good ball. On the flip side, Flanagan was getting on the world of ball played in like this.

I think Glynn is an effective full forward in certain types of games but realistically Conor Cooney should be there with Mannion and Whelan either side of him, with good fast ball into space to maximize Galway's scoring. Not just lump inside.

deaddonkey15

Vinnie222 wrote: »

P Casey 1 was a disgrace , clear foul and for Galway to score a goal within 10 sec of it was a kick in the .... Limerick clear best on the day

Limerick got at least 7 points worth of bad decisions given their way.

culhanp

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Limerick got at least 7 points worth of bad decisions given their way.

Padraig Mannion should have been sent off for throwing the hurl for Downlings goal (on a yellow card prior to it).
Peter Casey got fouled in lead up to Cannings goal (4 point swing)
Kyle Hayes caught the ball over Cannings head (free given to Galway. Free scored)
Not a chance the referee saw the ball being handed on the ground by Quaid for Cannings goal unless advised by umpire (which he hadn't talked to) or from earpiece from sideline.
Séamus Flanagan was fouled by Skehill when Skehill got injured. Not a major foul and I wouldn't have given it but if people are saying that Hayed shouldered Mannion(I think it was Mannion) in the back for Mulcahy's goal then Skehill tripping Flanagan was as much a free.
Tom Morrisseys goal - while he took steps, the referee was in an impossible position to see/count steps and from his point of view could have argued that McInerney had fouled Morrissey while he went in on goal. Same happened for Aylward vs Galway and Shane O Donnell, if the forward is being fouled then the referee will give the advantage.

Certain passages of play need to be let go otherwise the whole game will be a free contest

cosatron

letowski wrote: »

Galway's style of hurling is very agricultural. I think DOnoghue is a good manager and bring high standards to Galway, but his brand of hurling is very taxing on his forwards. Yes, Galway have a big forward line that can win their own ball, and against a smaller team like Clare, they can run you over. They did that in the opening 25 minutes in both games against us.

But up against a Limerick team with a tall half back line that can complete with Galway, their brand of hurling looks very one dimensional. The likes of Conor Cooney, Conor Whelan and Cathal Mannion are top forwards on their day but Galway's brand of hurling doesn't allow for them to be played into space. The ball usually goes down on top of them with a back. I honestly can remember once on Sunday one of those 3 forwards running onto a diagonal ball into space. Cooney hit 4 balls wide but they were all pot shots, it wasn't like he was missing straight forward opportunities because he wasn't getting good ball. On the flip side, Flanagan was getting on the world of ball played in like this.

I think Glynn is an effective full forward in certain types of games but realistically Conor Cooney should be there with Mannion and Whelan either side of him, with good fast ball into space to maximize Galway's scoring. Not just lump inside.

this is the killer for me. in the first half against KK in the replay we played a more expansive game with allot of movement up top with allot of crossfield balls and we absolutely destroyed KK and for the life of me I don't know why we went away from it. High balls into Johnny Glynn should be a last resort if your under pressure. I think conor Whelan only ran onto 1 ball in the all Ireland final which is a disgrace to be honest.

KrustyUCC

culhanp wrote: »

Padraig Mannion should have been sent off for throwing the hurl for Downlings goal (on a yellow card prior to it).
Peter Casey got fouled in lead up to Cannings goal (4 point swing)
Kyle Hayes caught the ball over Cannings head (free given to Galway. Free scored)
Not a chance the referee saw the ball being handed on the ground by Quaid for Cannings goal unless advised by umpire (which he hadn't talked to) or from earpiece from sideline.
Séamus Flanagan was fouled by Skehill when Skehill got injured. Not a major foul and I wouldn't have given it but if people are saying that Hayed shouldered Mannion(I think it was Mannion) in the back for Mulcahy's goal then Skehill tripping Flanagan was as much a free.
Tom Morrisseys goal - while he took steps, the referee was in an impossible position to see/count steps and from his point of view could have argued that McInerney had fouled Morrissey while he went in on goal. Same happened for Aylward vs Galway and Shane O Donnell, if the forward is being fouled then the referee will give the advantage.

Certain passages of play need to be let go otherwise the whole game will be a free contest

Free on Quaid was for lying on the ball similar to Donal Og Cusack in 2007

I fail to see how Skehill fouled Flanagan and how it is even related to Hayes v Mannion. I've seen them given as frees out. Limerick got away with it on the day

Here is how Brian Gavin though Owens got on

From the first free, questions asked of referee’s decisions

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/comment-from-the-first-free-questions-asked-of-referees-decisions-863249.html

The GAA will certainly need to upgrade the steps rule at intercounty level as it's certainly not been policed and if it is ever given it is very selective

Least fellas get away with these days in 7 steps

You cannot foul the ball even with an advantage so refs will need to clamp down on that next year

Utopia Parkway

Ultimately the extra games and extra time and the injuries to players were all huge red flags against Galway going into the final. I think people hoped the 2 weeks would be enough to recover but it wasn't. They looked stuck to the ground on Sunday with at least two players in defence hampered by carrying knocks into the game. Playing players who are nowhere near 100% is a fool's errand in an AI final where you need everyone at it. Brian Cody tried it in 2010 and it backfired on him also. It was almost through sheer force of will and muscle memory that Galway somehow dragged themselves back into it. Another couple of minutes and they may well have forced the replay but they didn't really deserve it on the day even if the goals they conceded were horribly self-inflicted.

They'll be back next year though there or thereabouts again. Nobody is due to retire unless Colm Callanan makes his official (and he was a loss this year) and no shortage of young talent coming through but Donoghue probably needs to give the youngsters significant game time during the league next year to broaden the selection base.

cson

BloodyBill wrote: »

Exactly. It's is sour grapes. Here's a few that James Owens gave to Galway.

1.Kyle Hayes competes and wins ball over Canning in first half. Free to Galway.
2. At least 2 frees given to Galway in the second half when he was legitimately tackled and overcarried. The last free of the game was no free.
3. The most blatant. Peter Casey through and fouled by Burke. A wild swing across Casey's solo that missed the ball. Ball went up the field and Whelan scores a great goal.
James Owen is not a good ref. But that game was a one point hammering of Galway by Limerick.

He came flying through the back of Canning trying to get to that ball. You can't do that.

There was a filthy stroke pulled by a Limerick player (might have been Peter Casey) underneath the Cusack Stand near the Hill as a Galway player was coming out with the ball too, missed by Owens of course.

He was absolutely ****e for both teams and while you want the game to flow you can't do it at the expense of the rules. So much let go, so much lying down as well chewing up time, really need to stop the clock like rugby does.

Stationmaster

cson wrote: »

He came flying through the back of Canning trying to get to that ball. You can't do that.

There was a filthy stroke pulled by a Limerick player (might have been Peter Casey) underneath the Cusack Stand near the Hill as a Galway player was coming out with the ball too, missed by Owens of course.

He was absolutely ****e for both teams and while you want the game to flow you can't do it at the expense of the rules. So much let go, so much lying down as well chewing up time, really need to stop the clock like rugby does.

On your last point - he played 8 minutes injury time so surely he did that right!?

culhanp

cson wrote: »

He came flying through the back of Canning trying to get to that ball. You can't do that.

There was a filthy stroke pulled by a Limerick player (might have been Peter Casey) underneath the Cusack Stand near the Hill as a Galway player was coming out with the ball too, missed by Owens of course.

He was absolutely ****e for both teams and while you want the game to flow you can't do it at the expense of the rules. So much let go, so much lying down as well chewing up time, really need to stop the clock like rugby does.

Missed whatever stroke was pulled by a Limerick player and I was in section 302 lower Cussack also didn't notice any roar for red ect from Galway fans. Would need to re-watch it but the incident was pointed out to me over the phone when I was discussing it with someone (supposedly the player had a white helmet so Gillane or Hayes)

Goes to show that there's difference of opinions on what's a foul or not. To me looked like Canning was out of position to catch the ball and Hayes had momentum and got up higher. No free.

I'm not saying that Owens is a good ref. Was at Cusack Park for the Limerick Clare match when David Reidy got sent off for nothing and missed a red card for Sean O Donoghue for 2 yellows in the Limerick Cork game in Cork but there were fouls and decisions against both teams on Sunday and based on what I saw, no matter what referee was there, Limerick were most likely to win.

elefant

cson wrote: »

He came flying through the back of Canning trying to get to that ball. You can't do that.

Did he actually catch the ball, as is being said here, or just jump into the back of him nowhere near catching it? Maybe I'm totally misremembering the moment.

Edit: Half right; he didn't catch the ball, but he came close to it. Could have gone either way really.

donnem33

Jeez lads, can we give it a rest on the referee bashing!!! No doubt he went out with the best intentions and with human nature being what it; he made mistakes. Referee wasnt the cause for the winning or the losing of the game.

In saying that, hurling is just too fast for only one man to referee. It's impossible for him to seeing everything and be absolutely spot on. It's time to trial 2 referees. It works perfectly well with the international rules game so don't see why same would not apply to the GAA

elefant

donnem33 wrote: »

Jeez lads, can we give it a rest on the referee bashing!!! No doubt he went out with the best intentions and with human nature being what it; he made mistakes. Referee wasnt the cause for the winning or the losing of the game.

In saying that, hurling is just too fast for only one man to referee. It's impossible for him to seeing everything and be absolutely spot on. It's time to trial 2 referees. It works perfectly well with the international rules game so don't see why same would not apply to the GAA

It's worth a discussion, not necessarily just to bash the referee. I don't know any Galway fan who doesn't think Limerick deserved it.

It stood out as a particularly poor refereeing performance though, even though he obviously didn't mean to make mistakes.

The blatant foul on Mannion before the first goal, and how Limerick couldn't buy a free at the end when they were struggling to hang on were the stand out thing for me. The rules of the game seem to be becoming more and more nebulous by the year. Referees are praised for letting the game run, but it's becoming nearly impossible to predict when or if anything is going to be given.

golfball37

Refs in gaa think it’s their duty to help out team who are losing. It’s a joke. James Owens was horrific on Sunday. He had a set against Johnny Glynn from the off. It reminded me the way Galway were robbed against Tipp in 2001 as the ref that day picked on joe Rabbitte for made up infractions.
Limerick were the better side by a distance but both teams deserved better

Mac_Lad71

I read in today’s Irish Examiner that J.P. Mc Manus is now proclaiming Limerick to be the World Champions of hurling. He’s quoted as saying if the Super Bowl champions in NFL can call themselves World Champions then so can we.

Alright J.P. we know ye won but a little perspective mightn’t do any harm either.

cson

golfball37 wrote: »

Refs in gaa think it’s their duty to help out team who are losing. It’s a joke. James Owens was horrific on Sunday. He had a set against Johnny Glynn from the off. It reminded me the way Galway were robbed against Tipp in 2001 as the ref that day picked on joe Rabbitte for made up infractions.
Limerick were the better side by a distance but both teams deserved better

On that point I see people are saying Glynn had a poor game; he had a poor game because he was being pulled and dragged out of, lost count of the number of times Casey shoved him in the back from high balls pucked in on top of them. Nothing given because he's a big man.

Look, Limerick deserved it, they were more than 1 point better than us but lets not gloss over what was a poor inconsistent performance from Owens and its telling that even Brian Gavin is calling him out on it. It's not fair on both sets of players & supporters to be getting obvious calls wrong.

High bike

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

I read in today’s Irish Examiner that J.P. Mc Manus is now proclaiming Limerick to be the World Champions of hurling. He’s quoted as saying if the Super Bowl champions in NFL can call themselves World Champions then so can we.

Alright J.P. we know ye won but a little perspective mightn’t do any harm either.

That man puts his money where his mouth is and always has so if that's what he thinks it's good enough for me😜

Mac_Lad71

High bike wrote: »

That man puts his money where his mouth is and always has so if that's what he thinks it's good enough for me��

World Champions it is then, and next year the new Adare Manor World Hurling Series trophy will be the J.P. McManus cup.

culhanp

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

I read in today’s Irish Examiner that J.P. Mc Manus is now proclaiming Limerick to be the World Champions of hurling. He’s quoted as saying if the Super Bowl champions in NFL can call themselves World Champions then so can we.

Alright J.P. we know ye won but a little perspective mightn’t do any harm either.

Well hurling(and football) have teams from multiple countries so they're more qualified to call the winners 'World Champions' than Americans are for the Super bowl/World Series. With that said, none of these sports should be calling themselves world champions. Also, All Ireland Champions sounds better to me.

Reputable Rog

High bike wrote: »

That man puts his money where his mouth is and always has so if that's what he thinks it's good enough for me��

Except when it comes to paying income tax, he never has much to say in relation to that.

Vinnie222

Reputable Rog wrote: »

High bike wrote: »

That man puts his money where his mouth is and always has so if that's what he thinks it's good enough for me��

Except when it comes to paying income tax, he never has much to say in relation to that.

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

I read in today’s Irish Examiner that J.P. Mc Manus is now proclaiming Limerick to be the World Champions of hurling. He’s quoted as saying if the Super Bowl champions in NFL can call themselves World Champions then so can we.

Alright J.P. we know ye won but a little perspective mightn’t do any harm either.

I suspect he said that with tongue in cheek 😋

Mac_Lad71

Vinnie222 wrote: »

I suspect he said that with tongue in cheek ��

Quite possible but he’s a team sponsor. Nothing more.
R.T.E. tv interviewed him on the Friday before the game.
There were photos of him in the team dressing room after the game.
I accept he’s been generous with his money for the betterment of Limerick G.A.A. and he seems like a nice guy.
But I find the media,particularly R.T.E sucking up to him really nauseating.
Do other generous team sponsors get the same coverage?

Motivator

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

Quite possible but he’s a team sponsor. Nothing more.
R.T.E. tv interviewed him on the Friday before the game.
There were photos of him in the team dressing room after the game.
I accept he’s been generous with his money for the betterment of Limerick G.A.A. and he seems like a nice guy.
But I find the media,particularly R.T.E sucking up to him really nauseating.
Do other generous team sponsors get the same coverage?

JP employs thousands of people in Ireland, he has several scholarships and education funds for people in Limerick and further afield. He’s not just a sponsor of Limerick GAA, he’s as responsible for their success as any coach or backroom team member. The team and management have every whim looked after, no questions asked. JP has sponsored Limerick for the best part of 3 decades and put huge money into the Gaelic Grounds too. Name another sponsor in Ireland that the above can be said about? It’s no wonder RTE fawn over him. The income tax comment is always bandied about but he pumps enormous money into Limerick City and County every year. Good luck to him.

Powerhouse

If we are going to take every utterance from Limerick at face value it looks like we'd better get used to JP McManus having a profile. John Kiely said “It has been an amazing journey. It has been an amazing 24 hours and there are many more to come” . Looks like they expect to take over.

salmocab

culhanp wrote: »

Well hurling(and football) have teams from multiple countries so they're more qualified to call the winners 'World Champions' than Americans are for the Super bowl/World Series. With that said, none of these sports should be calling themselves world champions. Also, All Ireland Champions sounds better to me.

World Series in baseball has teams from more than one country

Mac_Lad71

Motivator wrote: »

JP employs thousands of people in Ireland, he has several scholarships and education funds for people in Limerick and further afield. He’s not just a sponsor of Limerick GAA, he’s as responsible for their success as any coach or backroom team member. The team and management have every whim looked after, no questions asked. JP has sponsored Limerick for the best part of 3 decades and put huge money into the Gaelic Grounds too. Name another sponsor in Ireland that the above can be said about? It’s no wonder RTE fawn over him. The income tax comment is always bandied about but he pumps enormous money into Limerick City and County every year. Good luck to him.

Well his taxes would benefit everybody in the country not just Limerick. It would be a funny country if every tax payer could choose where to have his/her tax money spent and I did acknowledge his generosity in my original post.

ProudDUB

salmocab wrote: »

World Series in baseball has teams from more than one country

It was US only and called the World Series, long before let Canada join the party.

Vinnie222

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

Motivator wrote: »

JP employs thousands of people in Ireland, he has several scholarships and education funds for people in Limerick and further afield. He’s not just a sponsor of Limerick GAA, he’s as responsible for their success as any coach or backroom team member. The team and management have every whim looked after, no questions asked. JP has sponsored Limerick for the best part of 3 decades and put huge money into the Gaelic Grounds too. Name another sponsor in Ireland that the above can be said about? It’s no wonder RTE fawn over him. The income tax comment is always bandied about but he pumps enormous money into Limerick City and County every year. Good luck to him.

Well his taxes would benefit everybody in the country not just Limerick. It would be a funny country if every tax payer could choose where to have his/her tax money spent and I did acknowledge his generosity in my original post.

He breaks no laws so its really none of yours or my business where he chooses to live . Fair play to him

Mac_Lad71

Vinnie222 wrote: »

He breaks no laws so its really none of yours or my business where he chooses to live . Fair play to him

I know it’s none of my business where he chooses to live and I never said it was.
What is my business is when the national broadcaster, who charge me a license fee, send out reporters to fawn all over him.
Do other generous team sponsors get this coverage?

Vinnie222

His a decent man that employs thousands across our country . Mr O Leary also gets good coverage