AI Senior Hurling- Liam McCarthy Cup 2018

Mac_Lad71

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Don't be a bitter little man ... His a decent man that employs thousands across our country . Mr O Leary also gets good coverage

I’m not commenting on how many people he employs, as I neither know nor care.
What has Michael O Leary got to do with it?
This is a GAA thread not a horse racing one.

The_Kew_Tour

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

and he seems like a nice guy.

JP is no nice guy

Vinnie222

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

and he seems like a nice guy.

I presume you lose a lot on horses . I'm out . Well done Limerick It was done the hard way

Vinnie222

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Don't be a bitter little man ... His a decent man that employs thousands across our country . Mr O Leary also gets good coverage

I’m not commenting on how many people he employs, as I neither know nor care.
What has Michael O Leary got to do with it?
This is a GAA thread not a horse racing one little man.

Well stop going on about Jp then Limerick deserve every plaudit they get

Mac_Lad71

Vinnie222 wrote: »

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I presume you lose a lot on horses . I'm out . Well done Limerick It was done the hard way[/QUOTE

You presume incorrectly.
Every All Ireland is hard won.

The_Kew_Tour

Vinnie222 wrote: »

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I presume you lose a lot on horses . I'm out . Well done Limerick It was done the hard way

No, i haven't backed a horse in 2 years.

golfball37

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Don't be a bitter little man ... His a decent man that employs thousands across our country . Mr O Leary also gets good coverage

Michael O Leary doesn’t say he lives in Geneva and pays his taxes. I’d love to choose where my taxes go too.

Pussyhands

Any self made millionaire is not a nice guy. you have to shaft people and climb over others climbing the ladder. This is fact.

Motivator

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

JP is no nice guy

Yes he is, I caddied for him as a young fella and got £250 as a tip off him. I was only 15 or 16 and he chatted away to me for the entire round. I didn’t annoy him talking about his horses or lick his arse, we just chatted away and had a good laugh together. I met him at Leopardstown at Christmas a few years ago and once I told him I caddied for him he actually remembered me due to the ridiculous haircut I had at the time. A genuinely nice man and anyone that says different has either never met him or is a begrudger - or both.

He was interviewed a few years ago and the interviewer brought up his wealth. He said he could buy most things in life but the one thing he couldn’t buy was an All Ireland for Limerick and it was the one thing that he yearned for.

The_Kew_Tour

Motivator wrote: »

Yes he is, I caddied for him as a young fella and got £250 as a tip off him. I was only 15 or 16 and he chatted away to me for the entire round. I didn’t annoy him talking about his horses or lick his arse, we just chatted away and had a good laugh together. I met him at Leopardstown at Christmas a few years ago and once I told him I caddied for him he actually remembered me due to the ridiculous haircut I had at the time. A genuinely nice man and anyone that says different has either never met him or is a begrudger - or both.

He was interviewed a few years ago and the interviewer brought up his wealth. He said he could buy most things in life but the one thing he couldn’t buy was an All Ireland for Limerick and it was the one thing that he yearned for.

He comes across all lovely on TV but you don't make it like he does.

Reputable Rog

I'm bored of all these Limerick celebrations already and the classless cocky comments from their 'fans'on Facebook about Galway and Clare. The media fawning over them and St JP of Martinstown is also tiresome, they'll be ripping the place to shreds by the end of the month.

culhanp

salmocab wrote: »

World Series in baseball has teams from more than one country

I know it's baseball but they also call themselves world champions. The teams that compete for the best of 7 game series comes from the winner of the American or national league. In which there are no teams from other countries. I assume you thought there was a Canadian team. There is not.

High bike

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He comes across all lovely on TV but you don't make it like he does.

Get a grip Man U know **** all about the man so stop talking ****e The End

Motivator

[quote="The_Kew_Tour;107854540"

He comes across all lovely on TV but you don't make it like he does.[/quote]

This is embarrassing, you’d swear his name was JP Capone.

Reputable Rog

Terry McCann end.

golfball37

culhanp wrote: »

I know it's baseball but they also call themselves world champions. The teams that compete for the best of 7 game series comes from the winner of the American or national league. In which there are no teams from other countries. I assume you thought there was a Canadian team. There is not.

Tell that to the 1992 and 1993 World Series winners the Toronto Blue Jays!

The_Kew_Tour

High bike wrote: »

Get a grip Man U know **** all about the man so stop talking ****e The End

Seen him in action few times and know few who were screwed over by him.

The End

seligehgit

Mod Warning

Can we please revert back to talking about the hurling.

C__MC

An intersting question here

Are more skillful forwards worth more now then the typical Brian Cody forward?

Also, When you compare limericks midfield on Sunday to what kk produced in their prime - are we now looking at a new type of brand player for our game? From maybe 5-15, its so different to say 4-5 years ago. Scores now are like bread and butter to most lines on the field.

I got the sense this year that skill and a very fine tuned game plan is the way forward. Now don’t get me wrong work rate is still a key skill of the game but limericks win this year was different to other years in terms of their playing personal and game plan.

audrey2014

Lawdie, ye are a shower of whingers. The best team won on the day, the referee was indeed rubbish but whats new with Owens? JP is a hugely generous sponsor, and so what if he is tax resident elsewhere? Who's business is it really?? Ya it would be great if we could choose where our taxes went. I certainly wouldn't allow mine be used in the welfare system willy nilly if i could choose. And the media fawn and fawn over high profile people. it's what sells...

And i have said it for years. Galway have some fantastic players, but they are not as good as people think they are. They are inconsistent, needed replays to deal with "weaker" teams. Prior to winning last years ALl Ireland, they choked in big games....with the players they have they should have won a few AI in the last few years. And they rely on the same old players all the time.

I am personally thrilled Limerick were finally able to bring Liam home, and god knows what will happen next year......but for now, let us enjoy it without the sour grapes...god knows we waited long enough for it and deserve every minute of it. Look at the teams we beat along the way....Cork, Tipp, Kilkenny - the traditional big 3 and then the defending champions, only hiccup was against Clare - but we got to hit the reset button and regroup. we shoulda beat Cork in Pairc ui Caoimh but we didnt,

Pogue eile

C__MC wrote: »

An intersting question here

Are more skillful forwards worth more now then the typical Brian Cody forward?

Also, When you compare limericks midfield on Sunday to what kk produced in their prime - are we now looking at a new type of brand player for our game? From maybe 5-15, its so different to say 4-5 years ago. Scores now are like bread and butter to most lines on the field.

I got the sense this year that skill and a very fine tuned game plan is the way forward. Now don’t get me wrong  work rate is still a key skill of the game but limericks win this year was different to other years in terms of their playing personal and game plan.

Cody's teams were loaded with skilfull forwards, people tend to overlook that simply becasue they also worked like dogs.
The reason that scores are coming from every line is that teams have to shoot from distance more often because all teams defend the final third so well and compact, it also leads to more wides as a direct result.

I would say Limericks mid field is very similar to the KK midfield O'Donovan is the deep lying scavenger with a huge engine and Lynch is the 'hurler' and playmaker. Its all about balance in midfied. 
Your final comment is confusing me, Limerick had an absolutely savage work rate on Sunday and in fact at times it looked as if they were too 'up' for it and made mistakes accordingly.

C__MC

Pogue eile wrote: »

Cody's teams were loaded with skilfull forwards, people tend to overlook that simply becasue they also worked like dogs.
The reason that scores are coming from every line is that teams have to shoot from distance more often because all teams defend the final third so well and compact, it also leads to more wides as a direct result.

I would say Limericks mid field is very similar to the KK midfield O'Donovan is the deep lying scavenger with a huge engine and Lynch is the 'hurler' and playmaker. Its all about balance in midfied. 
Your final comment is confusing me, Limerick had an absolutely savage work rate on Sunday and in fact at times it looked as if they were too 'up' for it and made mistakes accordingly.

You are correct that limerick had strong work rate. The point I was trying to make was - is this new refined game plan the way forward for teams that seen limerick win on Sunday. Is the possession game and playing the space a catalyst for success. Or can the method of the way kk won still be useful? Savage work rate - win your own ball etc.

Pogue eile

But my point is why does it hve to be one or the other, surely the best approach is to take the best attributes from a number of facets and blend them. And of course it will depend on the players available, all good mangers devise their gameplan based on their players best attributes, Donal O'Grady and Brian Cody being the two most obvious. Remember two of the last three AI's have been won by teams playing a more traditional direct game, one AI does not change the direction the game is taking, it merely confirms that there is no 'one way' or 'correct way' to play hurling.
The only major difference I feel may become a part of all teams approach is the changing of the role of the goalkeeper and his use of the ball, ball playing, accurate, skilfull goalkeepers will becore the norm.

BloodyBill

Reputable Rog wrote: »

High bike wrote: »

That man puts his money where his mouth is and always has so if that's what he thinks it's good enough for me��

Except when it comes to paying income tax, he never has much to say in relation to that.

I'd consider that as the mark of the great man . Tax is for communists.

threeball

C__MC wrote: »

You are correct that limerick had strong work rate. The point I was trying to make was - is this new refined game plan the way forward for teams that seen limerick win on Sunday. Is the possession game and playing the space a catalyst for success. Or can the method of the way kk won still be useful? Savage work rate - win your own ball etc.

You can't base anything off Sunday. One team showed up and one didn't. On the day Limerick were better but play that game 5 more times and Galway win 4 in my opinion. Barely functioning as a team they were never out of the game and being the closest version of kk that's currently playing it suggests that savage work rate and win your own ball would still win out in alot of cases. On Sunday, neither were present.

mickmackey1

threeball wrote: »

You can't base anything off Sunday. One team showed up and one didn't. On the day Limerick were better but play that game 5 more times and Galway win 4 in my opinion. Barely functioning as a team they were never out of the game and being the closest version of kk that's currently playing it suggests that savage work rate and win your own ball would still win out in alot of cases. On Sunday, neither were present.

Limerick were not at their best on Sunday either, far from it. Hit 20 wides for probably the first time in C'ship history. If they played 5 more times the overall score would be very close, as it would be in matches between all of the top 5 or 6.

letowski

C__MC wrote:

You are correct that limerick had strong work rate. The point I was trying to make was - is this new refined game plan the way forward for teams that seen limerick win on Sunday. Is the possession game and playing the space a catalyst for success. Or can the method of the way kk won still be useful? Savage work rate - win your own ball etc.

I think its somewhere in between. Both Clare and Cork have struggled in the business end of the c'ship for lining out forward lines with not enough players that can win aerial or tough 50-50 balls. In games where a teams back line and midfield cannot impose themselves, its important to have forwards that can win their own ball. But on the other hand, movement and distribution in terms of getting your forwards good quality ball is king now. Ideally you want 6 forwards to can all win their own ball but move well too. Limerick this year had a nice balance with good size and athleticism.

Like The Game documentary showed, the game evolves, particurly with a team desperately looking to find an initiative to get to the top; ie Clare in '95 and their physicality and workrate, Cork in '05 with their possession game. For me, I think alot of tactics used today derive from Sheedy and O'Shea brand of hurling where in '10 (when they were trying to knock off KK at the top) they brough their wing forwards way out (Gearoid Ryan and Bonnar) and played in low diagonal ball inside. Morrisey and Hegarty played the same role, but so too have the likes of Kearney and Meade, and Reidy and Kelly done for Cork and Clare; all 6 have played predominantly around midfield.

Now im not saying this is new, Larkin did this alot for Kilkenny, but the alignment nowadays is mainly to create space inside so the ball can be played in low. KK played it more fast and direct inside, confident their forward will win their individual matchups. But teams recently prefer a more slower build up so they can find a spare man (even if they have to work it all the way out to a wing forward) so to play a precise ball low out in front of an inside forward. It seems to be the in vogue brand of hurling now, but I'm sure like always it will become outdated eventually as teams evolve and figure out how to nulify it. Similarly the way the sweeper can be easily nulified in todays game ( Davy is just too stubborn to listen, trust me)!

audrey2014

audrey2014 wrote: »

Mother of Jesus ye are a shower of whingers. The best team won on the day, the referee was indeed ****, but whats new with Owens? JP is a hugely generous sponsor, and so what if he is tax resident elsewhere? Who's business is it really?? Ya it would be great if we could choose where our taxes went. I certainly wouldn't allow mine be used in the welfare system willy nilly if i could choose. And the media fawn and fawn over high profile people. it's what sells papers, makes money.

And i have said it for years. Galway have some fantastic players, but they are not as good as people think they are. They are inconsistent, needed replays to deal with "weaker" teams. Prior to winning last years ALl Ireland, they choked in big games....with the players they have they should have won a few AI in the last few years. And they rely on the same old players all the time.

I am personally thrilled Limerick were finally able to bring Liam home, and God knows what will happen next year......but for now, let us enjoy it without the sour grapes...god knows we waited long enough for it and deserve every minute of it. Look at the teams we beat along the way....Cork, Tipp, Kilkenny - the traditional big 3 and then the defending champions, only hiccup was against Clare - but we got to hit the reset button and regroup. we shoulda beat Cork in Pairc ui Caoimh but we didnt,

Agree. JP has never been shy to put his hands in his pockets and give back to his country so its totally wrong for anyone to accuse him of otherwise and the very fact his name is being mentioned on a hurling discussion thread is shocking. One would think he assembled a side for 1 billion ahead of this years championship.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/222360/jp-mcmanus-s-donations-to-good-causes-climb-to-225m.html

Bass Reeves

Deleted User wrote: »

Agree. JP has never been shy to put his hands in his pockets and give back to his country so its totally wrong for anyone to accuse him of otherwise and the very fact his name is being mentioned on a hurling discussion thread is shocking. One would think he assembled a side for 1 billion ahead of this years championship.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/222360/jp-mcmanus-s-donations-to-good-causes-climb-to-225m.html

Well you bought it back up.

Lets get one thing out of the way first Limerick had a great win and had a worthy win. They were the best team in the championship this year. Ownes was a poor ref.

However what can annoy people is this thinking that by giving charitable donations to different causes or spending it on sport that it nullify your obligations to pay tax. He is entitled to live in Geneva and avoid paying tax here, just as Denis O'Brien and Micheal Smurfit are all tax exiles. In DO'B case he gives money to Irish soccer. For this reason many refuse to accept them being put on a pedestal. I agree entirely with this thinking.

Most of us do not have a choice about where we pay tax. Taxes pay for hospitals, schools, roads etc. Yes a lsome of it is wasted but only a select few can make the choice to avoid paying it. It is immaterial if they employ thousands in Ireland as well. This is how they make money by running businesses and they would not be employing people if it was unprofitable.

While some may think this is just a sport forum. The essence of sport is fairness. Yes we may not totally play by the rules just like many may evade tax illegally( JP is not doing this) but like a sport person they will suffer the consequences if caught. JP and many other are outside the system so it is fair even in a sporting forum to question the morality and the consequence of them having free choice of where they spend the money thy may have avoided tax on. Spending money on personnel choices should not nullify there tax obligation and we should remember that.

Just to clarify tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion is illegal. From a sporting point of view whether it is GAA, soccer rugby we all have to play by the rules of the game not the one we may wish to play by.

terryrogers

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Limerick were not at their best on Sunday either, far from it. Hit 20 wides for probably the first time in C'ship history. If they played 5 more times the overall score would be very close, as it would be in matches between all of the top 5 or 6.

Heard a lot of people talking about wides as an area of improvement for Limerick and Clare this year but most of these wides came from 60-70-80 yards out the field. Very hard to reduce wide counts with their style of play, ie heavy use of pot shots. In general play Limerick had a near perfect game, great passing, crisp touch and most importantly took their goal chance this time.

Galway however were all over the place and only played well and took their chances in the last 10 mins. Based on Sunday, if both these teams played the next 5 All Ireland's I feel this current Galway couldn't be as bad and would probably win 4 out of 5.

But that's not to say Limerick won't fine tune their game and improve areas of weakness going forward. They certainly have the potential to challenge the next 5 All Ireland's.