AI Senior Hurling- Liam McCarthy Cup 2018

flatty

letowski wrote: »

Yeah it certainly wasnt a year for the defender. Really only Mannion and Burke were the only two that we maintaining a high level of performance.

One thing though that might teach other teams is the importance of have good man marking corner backs. Both Finn and English should get allstars and for good reason, they were very solid and kept theyre markers from scoring much. I think with such high scoring in hurling nowadays, I think we will see management teams over the next couple of years look to develop proper sticky corner backs that they can use to 'do a job' on a free scoring forward.

Having said that, the game doesnt favour the back anymore. The spare arm tackle is heavly policed now while over-carrying and throw passes are not. Things like this are facilitating high scoring games.

The, clearly practiced, technique of the player with the ball grabbing the defenders hurl blindside of the ref, and throwing himself to the ground is really creeping in. Started by John mullane, it has been well honed and regularly used this year. It really grinds my gears. Jurgen Klinsmann would be proud of some of it.

flatty

letowski wrote: »

Pussyhands wrote: »

What happened Galways forwards in the last few weeks? The wides v Clare and Limerick were shocking. Weren't they shocking v KK in croker too?

Galway's style of hurling is very agricultural. I think DOnoghue is a good manager and bring high standards to Galway, but his brand of hurling is very taxing on his forwards. Yes, Galway have a big forward line that can win their own ball, and against a smaller team like Clare, they can run you over. They did that in the opening 25 minutes in both games against us.

But up against a Limerick team with a tall half back line that can complete with Galway, their brand of hurling looks very one dimensional. The likes of Conor Cooney, Conor Whelan and Cathal Mannion are top forwards on their day but Galway's brand of hurling doesn't allow for them to be played into space. The ball usually goes down on top of them with a back. I honestly can remember once on Sunday one of those 3 forwards running onto a diagonal ball into space. Cooney hit 4 balls wide but they were all pot shots, it wasn't like he was missing straight forward opportunities because he wasn't getting good ball. On the flip side, Flanagan was getting on the world of ball played in like this.

I think Glynn is an effective full forward in certain types of games but realistically Conor Cooney should be there with Mannion and Whelan either side of him, with good fast ball into space to maximize Galway's scoring. Not just lump inside.

Thing is, that galway side were forged to beat kilkenny, and were/are exactly what was required, Big strong men who can compete, and win their own ball. Limerick, we'll this limerick generation largely missed that kk brute dominance, and play the hurling needed to win a far more even and competitive championship. They are big, strong and determined, but they play lovely smart hurling. They are not backward at the dark arts either.
What I can't understand is why galway changed tactics so much from last year where they continually pointed from further out. The Glynn effect is effective on occasion, but should be an occasional variance, not plan a, b and c.
Anyhow,we need to find a bit of pace up front and get the backs fully fit. I reckon JC could be better again next year as he was clearly carrying an injury for a swathe of the season. A real dynamite fast forward or two are needed, and whilst I'm glad for limerick, I hope we batter them back to thomond next year.

djPSB

Dowling talks some rubbish at times. Media darling.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/my-life-probably-would-have-been-ruined-allireland-defeat-unthinkable-for-limerick-hero-dowling-37239459.html

bruschi

audrey2014 wrote: »

. Galway have some fantastic players, but they are not as good as people think they are.

....with the players they have they should have won a few AI in the last few years.

Galway not as good as people think they are but they should have won more All Irelands because they have some fantastic players.

Bass Reeves

I think a lot of people underestimated Limerick. Cyril Farrell made good point about finishing third in the round robin competiitions. You get a 3-4 week layoff as other teams pay it out for the provincial championship. Munster is so competitive that this is a real advantage. I am not sure if Galway would beat Limerick 4 times out of 5 if the game was replayed. Galway looked jaded and tired all season. Yes they had the replay agaist Kilkenny and Clare. But that stems from the fact that they were not good enough to beat either the first day.

Everybody forgets that Limerick beat Galway in Salthill this year to get out of Div 1B. Munster round robin seems much more competitive than the Lenister one. It is not inconcieveable that Limerick will fail to qualify next year or for that matter that Tipp and Waterford will make two of the three qualifiers. In Lenister you can assume that Galway and Kilkenny will qualify and Dublin and Wexford will compete to pick up the last position.

The last ten minutes hid Galways problems. It was after the break for the goalie being replaced that Galway really got on top. Limerick had to replace two in the FB line so they could only make three changes in the outfield area. There game is energy sapping. As well an interesting stastic I say was the free count it was 15 to 8 in favour of Galways I think. Joe scored 1-8 from frees out of 1-10. That is a poor return from a marquee forward. Gillane got 4 scoreabe frees and missed two.

Ownes gave everything to Galway in the last ten minutes. If Galway want to win another All Ireland they to look and analysis the game. Limerich are a bigh athletic team not yet hitting there prime if the can qualify out of Munster( and that will be a real test) they will be hard to beat in the final round's of the championship for the next 5 years especially if they continue to evolve,

djPSB

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think a lot of people underestimated Limerick. Cyril Farrell made good point about finishing third in the round robin competiitions. You get a 3-4 week layoff as other teams pay it out for the provincial championship. Munster is so competitive that this is a real advantage. I am not sure if Galway would beat Limerick 4 times out of 5 if the game was replayed. Galway looked jaded and tired all season. Yes they had the replay agaist Kilkenny and Clare. But that stems from the fact that they were not good enough to beat either the first day.

Everybody forgets that Limerick beat Galway in Salthill this year to get out of Div 1B. Munster round robin seems much more competitive than the Lenister one. It is not inconcieveable that Limerick will fail to qualify next year or for that matter that Tipp and Waterford will make two of the three qualifiers. In Lenister you can assume that Galway and Kilkenny will qualify and Dublin and Wexford will compete to pick up the last position.

The last ten minutes hid Galways problems. It was after the break for the goalie being replaced that Galway really got on top. Limerick had to replace two in the FB line so they could only make three changes in the outfield area. There game is energy sapping. As well an interesting stastic I say was the free count it was 15 to 8 in favour of Galways I think. Joe scored 1-8 from frees out of 1-10. That is a poor return from a marquee forward. Gillane got 4 scoreabe frees and missed two.

Ownes gave everything to Galway in the last ten minutes. If Galway want to win another All Ireland they to look and analysis the game. Limerich are a bigh athletic team not yet hitting there prime if the can qualify out of Munster( and that will be a real test) they will be hard to beat in the final round's of the championship for the next 5 years especially if they continue to evolve,

If Galway hadn't drawn with Kilkenny and in particular Clare, they would have been a better team in the final.

Limerick with 20 wides were there for the taking but Galway didn't have the fuel left in the tank.

Not to mention 3 soft goals.

Bass Reeves

djPSB wrote: »

Dowling talks some rubbish at times. Media darling.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/my-life-probably-would-have-been-ruined-allireland-defeat-unthinkable-for-limerick-hero-dowling-37239459.html

My understand is that he is giving his opinion from a personnell perpective.My understand is that he can struggle with losing which can be a huge personnel issue

djPSB

Bass Reeves wrote: »

My understand is that he is giving his opinion from a personnell perpective.My understand is that he can struggle with losing which can be a huge personnel issue

Well then he needs to chill out a bit.

He's a winner now but there are more losing days as a sports person than winning.

Saying your life would be ruined after a loss means perspective must be lost slightly.

Reputable Rog

Bass Reeves wrote: »

My understand is that he is giving his opinion from a personnell perpective.My understand is that he can struggle with losing which can be a huge personnel issue

As in HR?

MfMan

audrey2014 wrote: »

And i have said it for years. Galway have some fantastic players, but they are not as good as people think they are. They are inconsistent, needed replays to deal with "weaker" teams. Prior to winning last years ALl Ireland, they choked in big games....with the players they have they should have won a few AI in the last few years. And they rely on the same old players all the time.

Bit harsh, bit true. They were very consistent all last year, when practically all of their players rose to the challenges - this is why they became champions. They were also quite good in the early stages this year, up to and including the WX game. That Galway team would in all probability have beaten Limerick last Sunday. For some reason, from the Dublin game onwards, they seemed to lose energy and their performance level dropped a fair bit. Maybe it was sheer mileage. The forwards this year have been more inconsistent than last year definitely. Its not just a Galway thing though.

What makes great players great is that they so often produce the goods day in day out. Players like Daithi Burke, Padraig Mannion, Canning. This is why they are relied upon. Again, no different from any other county.

Calling Galway chokers doesn't cut it. They, Tipp and KK have been the 3 best teams of the past decade, with only Clare coming from nowhere in 2013. No other county has been as consistent as these; no county has beaten KK under Cody more than Galway and the Galway/Tipp matches of recent years have been classics. In 2017 they won the clean sweep of league, provincial and AI, the former 2 comfortably. They were better then than many gave them credit for.

Limerick choked in '94 and '96. They were well beaten by Clare in Ennis earlier on and were hanging on for dear life on Sunday. They've had some bad hammerings over the years, '09 in particular, and hadn't beaten KK in many years until a month ago. There is great potential in this Limerick team and I agree with astute manager Kiely that the best may yet be to come; winning (and defending) an AI isn't easy and will be even tougher under the new round-robin system. You will see next year. Enjoy your success for now.

Bass Reeves

djPSB wrote: »

If Galway hadn't drawn with Kilkenny and in particular Clare, they would have been a better team in the final.

Limerick with 20 wides were there for the taking but Galway didn't have the fuel left in the tank.

Not to mention 3 soft goals.

If stood stiff on a baldy man's quiff.

If Limerick did not have to replace two on the FB line and could have used those two subs further out the field they might have pushed on and there might have been no Galway comeback. The all Ireland final is only the culmination of a competition. Things that effect you on the way are the reason you win or lose. Yes Galway had issues with injuries but that is an issus as lads get older. Its a reason why it is important to keep bringing younger players into teams.

Galway had nearly as many wides as Limerick and only had two real goal chance's from play and they converted only one. The Free count was 15-8 in favour of Galway another ref might have it more balanced. Limerick beat them in Salthill. It may just be the present Limerick team are a team that Galway struggle to compete with.

audrey2014

bruschi wrote: »

Galway not as good as people think they are but they should have won more All Irelands because they have some fantastic players.

Confused is right. The point I was trying to make was that they were great last year, and should have won AI Previously when they lost to Tipperary. They have great individual players but if the don't play as a unit, it doesnt work. Previous years they didnt have the killer instinct

audrey2014

MfMan wrote: »

Bit harsh, bit true. They were very consistent all last year, when practically all of their players rose to the challenges - this is why they became champions. They were also quite good in the early stages this year, up to and including the WX game. That Galway team would in all probability have beaten Limerick last Sunday. For some reason, from the Dublin game onwards, they seemed to lose energy and their performance level dropped a fair bit. Maybe it was sheer mileage. The forwards this year have been more inconsistent than last year definitely. Its not just a Galway thing though.

What makes great players great is that they so often produce the goods day in day out. Players like Daithi Burke, Padraig Mannion, Canning. This is why they are relied upon. Again, no different from any other county.

Calling Galway chokers doesn't cut it. They, Tipp and KK have been the 3 best teams of the past decade, with only Clare coming from nowhere in 2013. No other county has been as consistent as these; no county has beaten KK under Cody more than Galway and the Galway/Tipp matches of recent years have been classics. In 2017 they won the clean sweep of league, provincial and AI, the former 2 comfortably. They were better then than many gave them credit for.

Limerick choked in '94 and '96. They were well beaten by Clare in Ennis earlier on and were hanging on for dear life on Sunday. They've had some bad hammerings over the years, '09 in particular, and hadn't beaten KK in many years until a month ago. There is great potential in this Limerick team and I agree with astute manager Kiely that the best may yet be to come; winning (and defending) an AI isn't easy and will be even tougher under the new round-robin system. You will see next year. Enjoy your success for now.

Yes, limerick did choke in 94/96, 2007 was a different animal, Kilkenny were lethal back then, and still are to some extent. We were hammered by Clare this year indeed. Galway could also have been bate by Clare just as easily in semifinal. They needed replays to dispose of both KK and Clare. We werent given much chance to get out of 1b against Galway, and even up to Sunday, I think Brendan Cummins was the only one to tip us to bring Liam home.
Either way, Galway will be back next year, that much you can be sure of. Maybe Limerick will be the sufferer of second season syndrome...I hope not. I don't want to wait another 4.5 decades....

deaddonkey15

audrey2014 wrote: »

Yes, limerick did choke in 94/96, 2007 was a different animal, Kilkenny were lethal back then, and still are to some extent. We were hammered by Clare this year indeed. Galway could also have been bate by Clare just as easily in semifinal. They needed replays to dispose of both KK and Clare. We werent given much chance to get out of 1b against Galway, and even up to Sunday, I think Brendan Cummins was the only one to tip us to bring Liam home.
Either way, Galway will be back next year, that much you can be sure of. Maybe Limerick will be the sufferer of second season syndrome...I hope not. I don't want to wait another 4.5 decades....

They may well be back but I think the aura around them has well and truly been shattered over the last few weeks. They were head and shoulders above every other team in the country according to many this year and were tipped to blow Clare out of it altogether.

For all their great hurlers, it's pretty much whether Joe Canning is on song or not that will dictate whether they win or lose.

buswankers

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

They may well be back but I think the aura around them has well and truly been shattered over the last few weeks. They were head and shoulders above every other team in the country according to many this year and were tipped to blow Clare out of it altogether.

For all their great hurlers, it's pretty much whether Joe Canning is on song or not that will dictate whether they win or lose.

Cant say I agree with this, JC is an amazing player, I thought he had an even better year this year than last & they STILL didn't win an AI. I think the problem was we were jaded & carrying too many injuries with 3 of our backs carrying knocks. Also think GMc should never have been played as Hayes completely ran rings around him & capitalised on the fact that he wasn't fully fit. Hats off to Limerick, by far the better team on the day & itd have been unfair if we'd pulled back to a draw, couldn't begrudge them the win.

C__MC

I think Galway deserve immense credit. Most of this team have been on the go since 2012 (bar 2014, they have been there or there abouts)

Tiredness no doubt was a factor on Sunday. But they have brought a real freshness to hurling. I would say they thought they need an injection of youth so they remain compedative.

deaddonkey15

buswankers wrote: »

Cant say I agree with this, JC is an amazing player, I thought he had an even better year this year than last & they STILL didn't win an AI. I think the problem was we were jaded & carrying too many injuries with 3 of our backs carrying knocks. Also think GMc should never have been played as Hayes completely ran rings around him & capitalised on the fact that he wasn't fully fit. Hats off to Limerick, by far the better team on the day & itd have been unfair if we'd pulled back to a draw, couldn't begrudge them the win.

I agree. I think if Galway had a 3 week break going into the final and Limerick only had 2 then we'd have seen a different winner. They had a tough replay against Clare on a very warm day down in Thurles. I'd say that and the Kilkenny replay caught up with them because they just looked so flat. I don't think McInerney or Daithi Burke were 100% fit either.

Utopia Parkway

C__MC wrote: »

I think Galway deserve immense credit. Most of this team have been on the go since 2012 (bar 2014, they have been there or there abouts)

Tiredness no doubt was a factor on Sunday. But they have brought a real freshness to hurling. I would say they thought they need an injection of youth so they remain compedative.

The Kilkenny replay wasn't too bad but the following Clare extra time and replay was a killer. That was an exhausting series of games and it was the Clare games where McInerney and Hanbury picked up their injuries. Think everyone hoped 2 weeks would be long enough to recover but they were really stuck to the ground in the final. Limerick had their own extra time against Cork but that game was not physically draining like the Kilkenny and especially Clare games.

Galway are going nowhere by the way. The average age of the team is 24.5. Granted it seems like they have been around for a long time now but the team has changed a lot since 2012. 3 out of the last 4 minor All-Ireland's won. Question is will the likes of Joe and David Burke still be around when some of those minors break through onto the senior team? Maybe, Maybe not but I think you'll see the likes of Loftus, Concannon, Monaghan, Fintan Burke and a few others get a lot of game time in next year's league.

terryrogers

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Galway are going nowhere by the way. The average age of the team is 24.5. Granted it seems like they have been around for a long time now but the team has changed a lot since 2012. 3 out of the last 4 minor All-Ireland's won. Question is will the likes of Joe and David Burke still be around when some of those minors break through onto the senior team? Maybe, Maybe not but I think you'll see the likes of Loftus, Concannon, Monaghan, Fintan Burke and a few others get a lot of game time in next year's league.

I agree. Galway are the best place team to win next year's All Ireland and this is reflected in the bookies odds. They will probably reach a semi final with ease next year, and at worst they've a 75% chance of making a QF (that's assuming Carlow will finish bottom of Leinster round robin). Contrast this with the Munster teams who each have realistically only a 60% chance of making a QF as there's currently only a puck of a ball between them all.

There's another 3 good years left in Canning and Burke, and with the players you've mentioned coming through they can only get stronger.

The_Kew_Tour

I think he meant they are going nowhere in sense that they still be near the top for few years.

I could be wrong

terryrogers

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I think he meant they are going nowhere in sense that they still be near the top for few years.

I could be wrong

Yep, I copped on to that afterwards ðŸ˜

I just wonder if the pressure of emulating the 87-88 team got to them this year. Like after KKs missed 5 in a row attempt, Galway could well also go on to win the next two once the pressure is off.

salmocab

culhanp wrote: »

I know it's baseball but they also call themselves world champions. The teams that compete for the best of 7 game series comes from the winner of the American or national league. In which there are no teams from other countries. I assume you thought there was a Canadian team. There is not.

There is

Bonniedog

Was talking to someone last night about the new structure and we agreed that it is working out well. Some great games and one a few serious hammerings.

What this for an idea. Given that the league and championship are very similar in structure what about merging the two, basically scrapping the league and have two groups mixed between the provinces and playing each other twice on home and away basis. That would mean championship could start a few weeks after the club final and last for five months so no chance of teams having to play 3/4 weeks in succession.

Means scrapping the provincials obviously. Everything else could remain as is with quarter finals and the top team in each group through to semi finals. Promotion and relegation could stay the same with provisio of play offs with the two McDonagh finalists.

BloodyBill

terryrogers wrote: »

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Limerick were not at their best on Sunday either, far from it. Hit 20 wides for probably the first time in C'ship history. If they played 5 more times the overall score would be very close, as it would be in matches between all of the top 5 or 6.

Heard a lot of people talking about wides as an area of improvement for Limerick and Clare this year but most of these wides came from 60-70-80 yards out the field. Very hard to reduce wide counts with their style of play, ie heavy use of pot shots. In general play Limerick had a near perfect game, great passing, crisp touch and most importantly took their goal chance this time.

Galway however were all over the place and only played well and took their chances in the last 10 mins. Based on Sunday, if both these teams played the next 5 All Ireland's I feel this current Galway couldn't be as bad and would probably win 4 out of 5.

But that's not to say Limerick won't fine tune their game and improve areas of weakness going forward. They certainly have the potential to challenge the next 5 All Ireland's.

Big insult to Limerick there and no basis for it. Where you get the idea that they would probably win 4 out of 5 matches with Limerick is just an idea plucked out of the ether. This Galway team have excellent players but not much of a game plan and are maybe over the hill judging on the last 3 matches.

Pogue eile

C__MC wrote: »

I think Galway deserve immense credit. Most of this team have been on the go since 2012 (bar 2014, they have been there or there abouts)

Tiredness no doubt was a factor on Sunday. But they have brought a real freshness to hurling. I would say they thought they need an injection of youth so they remain compedative.

The majority of their team are not on the go since 2012 and most of them no where near that long.

I agree that they looked tired and jaded all season but I dont think it was neccessarily caused from hurling, and I am convinced the same faith awits Limerick. It is an incredibly draining experience both mentally and physically for a young team to win their first AI and all the trappings that come with it and in a county like Galway and Limerick where they have been relatively starved of success it is even more pertinent. I predict Galway will be back to their best next year and Limerick will do something similar in 2020!!

Bass Reeves

Bonniedog wrote: »

Was talking to someone last night about the new structure and we agreed that it is working out well. Some great games and one a few serious hammerings.

What this for an idea. Given that the league and championship are very similar in structure what about merging the two, basically scrapping the league and have two groups mixed between the provinces and playing each other twice on home and away basis. That would mean championship could start a few weeks after the club final and last for five months so no chance of teams having to play 3/4 weeks in succession.

Means scrapping the provincials obviously. Everything else could remain as is with quarter finals and the top team in each group through to semi finals. Promotion and relegation could stay the same with provisio of play offs with the two McDonagh finalists.

Great idea we will just close down the club structure and all these hurlers will grow like mushrooms overnight

Realt Dearg Sec

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Bonniedog wrote: »

Was talking to someone last night about the new structure and we agreed that it is working out well. Some great games and one a few serious hammerings.

What this for an idea. Given that the league and championship are very similar in structure what about merging the two, basically scrapping the league and have two groups mixed between the provinces and playing each other twice on home and away basis. That would mean championship could start a few weeks after the club final and last for five months so no chance of teams having to play 3/4 weeks in succession.

Means scrapping the provincials obviously. Everything else could remain as is with quarter finals and the top team in each group through to semi finals. Promotion and relegation could stay the same with provisio of play offs with the two McDonagh finalists.

Great idea we will just close down the club structure and all these hurlers will grow like mushrooms overnight

No idea where you got that inference from what he said.

Edgware

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I think he meant they are going nowhere in sense that they still be near the top for few years.

I could be wrong

They will be around as will Limerick but I think this year showed there is no team too far ahead of the rest and all can damage each others chances. Not much between Galway Limerick Clare Tipp and Cork or the rest bar Offaly. Waterford and Wexford all have potential as well. Makes it all worth looking forward to.

Pogue eile

It always amazes me when people are debating the GAA calender and structures etc that the very obvious elephant in the room is always ignored.

I love traditions as much as any man but the notion that the final of a competion should be played 4 months after the QF's is ludicrous.

Bass Reeves

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

No idea where you got that inference from what he said.

The whole point of the new structure was to condense the hurling and football seasons so as to allow room for club games. His suggestion is going to elongate back to the old structure where the season starts in March and finishes some time in August. It is interesting that one of the few counties that played club championship in April and where players were back at there clubs playing meaniful games won the All Ireland.

Limerick played two rounds of there club Championship in April. Limerick club players have a minimum of 6 championship games each season, some will have eight games not counting replays and they have one division where you could have nine games to win the division. That is there championship along with that they have league and district competitions played while the inter county competition is on. This is what clubs in other counties crave a decent and meaniful club championship.

His idea would mean that club championship competition could not begin until after intercounty was over. So we would be back to all club championship starting in late August/September. With underage summer soccer staring it is only a matter of time before the adult competitions follow suit. They be delighted to have a from mid February until September without any real competitive GAA club fixtures. So you could kiss goodbye to club hurling if you think players would tran for a few games played in September