AI Senior Hurling- Liam McCarthy Cup 2018

terryrogers

BloodyBill wrote: »

Big insult to Limerick there and no basis for it. Where you get the idea that they would probably win 4 out of 5 matches with Limerick is just an idea plucked out of the ether. This Galway team have excellent players but not much of a game plan and are maybe over the hill judging on the last 3 matches.

Was probably a bit harsh on Limerick given they bet Galway in their last 2 attempts, but my statement was based on Sundays match alone. Limerick got nearly all the breaks, most or all of their men won their battles and they still only won by a point. Had Galway gotten the draw at the end they would have had far more to improve on and would have won a replay comfortably imo. Game plans are easily changed.

That's not to take from Limerick's win though, they were by far the better team on the day and I'm delighted they got over the line and ended the famine. Perhaps the weight of past failures handicapped them on the scoreboard.

Bonniedog

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Great idea we will just close down the club structure and all these hurlers will grow like mushrooms overnight

If you read what I wrote it would leave more time for club games.


How many inter county players play with their clubs between February and August if they are part of one of contenders?

Besides, in my experience clubs always come up with excuses to put of games.

April proved that/

LMK

Bonniedog wrote: »

If you read what I wrote it would leave more time for club games.


How many inter county players play with their clubs between February and August if they are part of one of contenders?

Besides, in my experience clubs always come up with excuses to put of games.

April proved that/

IMO the clubs should trial a few years playing the c'ship during the summer and forget about the inter-county players being involved for that period - see how it goes.
It might invigorate the whole club scene and it would be possible to have an fixture list that is adhered to.
Hurling (or any sport) is primarily about the participants that are actually playing the sport, I feel that overall the approach would be beneficial.

Bass Reeves

Bonniedog wrote: »

If you read what I wrote it would leave more time for club games.


How many inter county players play with their clubs between February and August if they are part of one of contenders?

Besides, in my experience clubs always come up with excuses to put of games.

April proved that/

This was the first year that it happened. Some counties paid lip service to the idea. it is up to clubs in these counties to start insisting on meaniful club championship's and to insist on the release of players. After just one season too many want to revert to a new form of the old jaded elongated system that favoured older teams.

I am not sure hurling would get the same exposure if the season and structure was changed. If I was to suggest any changes, first get rid of the league quarter finals, top team in Div 1B and top three in 1A play off for the league title. Let Munster and Leinster final be played off on the day going to extra time and free taking competition if need be for winner to be decided. Let forth in Lenister play third in Munster and visa versa so as to allow no rest for third placed team and then play McDonnagh cup teams.

The big problem is how to structure a one week break in a 5 team round robin structure as if no mater whether you take it after week no 2 or 3 you would still have teams playing 3 games in a row, 2 team's with week on week off for 2 games and one of those team's with no games first week then a game then a week's break.

Bonniedog

How would starting inter county in late March reduce amount of time for club games!

threeball

Bass Reeves wrote: »

This was the first year that it happened. Some counties paid lip service to the idea. it is up to clubs in these counties to start insisting on meaniful club championship's and to insist on the release of players. After just one season too many want to revert to a new form of the old jaded elongated system that favoured older teams.

I am not sure hurling would get the same exposure if the season and structure was changed. If I was to suggest any changes, first get rid of the league quarter finals, top team in Div 1B and top three in 1A play off for the league title. Let Munster and Leinster final be played off on the day going to extra time and free taking competition if need be for winner to be decided. Let forth in Lenister play third in Munster and visa versa so as to allow no rest for third placed team and then play McDonnagh cup teams.

The big problem is how to structure a one week break in a 5 team round robin structure as if no mater whether you take it after week no 2 or 3 you would still have teams playing 3 games in a row, 2 team's with week on week off for 2 games and one of those team's with no games first week then a game then a week's break.

There's no benefit to the April break. Even if one or two rounds are played early you still end up with lads sitting on their hole til september until they can start back up again. How can that be a fair system with no continuity. Even if they do get going they still have to wait til october to start the provincials as none of the counties who reach the last four will play any club until september and it will be at least October before they are available for provincials.

They'd be better to start in April and give players a break or two more and just make sure there's a proper schedule in place from August 1st on. League should continue as normal in the meantime.

Bass Reeves

Bonniedog wrote: »

How would starting inter county in late March reduce amount of time for club games!

In some counties county championship starts in late March. As I pointed out Limerick has played two rounds of there County Championship. Look it up in Limerickgaa.ie. They played both Hurling and football championship during April.
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=95018&season=2018&discipline=hurling&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=95020&season=2018&discipline=hurling&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=95097&season=2018&discipline=hurling&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=97389&season=2018&discipline=football&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=97391&season=2018&discipline=football&gender=M&type=Club

Bass Reeves

threeball wrote: »

There's no benefit to the April break. Even if one or two rounds are played early you still end up with lads sitting on their hole til september until they can start back up again. How can that be a fair system with no continuity. Even if they do get going they still have to wait til october to start the provincials as none of the counties who reach the last four will play any club until september and it will be at least October before they are available for provincials.

They'd be better to start in April and give players a break or two more and just make sure there's a proper schedule in place from August 1st on. League should continue as normal in the meantime.

I would have to disagree if club players and clubs start to presurise there counties they will get proper club championship structures. Limerick will be lucky to finish their's on time as they have 5-7 games still to play. As I said they play league and divisional competitions without there county players from May-August no sitting on your hole there.

This is the club structure that club players crave. it is only a matter of forcing other county boards to follow suit.

Hidalgo

terryrogers wrote: »

I agree. Galway are the best place team to win next year's All Ireland and this is reflected in the bookies odds. They will probably reach a semi final with ease next year, and at worst they've a 75% chance of making a QF (that's assuming Carlow will finish bottom of Leinster round robin). Contrast this with the Munster teams who each have realistically only a 60% chance of making a QF as there's currently only a puck of a ball between them all.

There's another 3 good years left in Canning and Burke, and with the players you've mentioned coming through they can only get stronger.

I wouldn't be fully convinced that there's 3 more years in Canning at his current rate. He'll still produce the moments of magic but maybe not as often
He's an awful lot of hurling done for Galway & a few long seasons with Portumna thrown in as well.
Think he needs a good rest to sort out whatever niggle (knee isn't it?). If Portumna were to give Galway club a good rattle, that would lessen his rest period.

The one benefit of being in 1B is that they shouldn't need to play him too much next Spring.

High bike

terryrogers wrote: »

Was probably a bit harsh on Limerick given they bet Galway in their last 2 attempts, but my statement was based on Sundays match alone. Limerick got nearly all the breaks, most or all of their men won their battles and they still only won by a point. Had Galway gotten the draw at the end they would have had far more to improve on and would have won a replay comfortably imo. Game plans are easily changed.

That's not to take from Limerick's win though, they were by far the better team on the day and I'm delighted they got over the line and ended the famine. Perhaps the weight of past failures handicapped them on the scoreboard.

Dont know where you get the idea that Limerick got all the breaks when they only got 2 points from frees and Galway got 1-7 ,Galway also got nearly twice as many frees as Limerick.As for your view that Galway would have won a replay in spite of all their injuries and and fatigue after replays against KK and Clare I think your way off the mark and believe Limerick would have beaten them well

kala85

smelly sock wrote: »

Yellow.

Only with intention of hitting another player or in a manner to be cause a danger to another player.

Other than that its just a free.

I says

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In some counties county championship starts in late March. As I pointed out Limerick has played two rounds of there County Championship. Look it up in Limerickgaa.ie. They played both Hurling and football championship during April.
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=95018&season=2018&discipline=hurling&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=95020&season=2018&discipline=hurling&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=95097&season=2018&discipline=hurling&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=97389&season=2018&discipline=football&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=97391&season=2018&discipline=football&gender=M&type=Club

Galway have two rounds played as well during April

Bonniedog

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In some counties county championship starts in late March. As I pointed out Limerick has played two rounds of there County Championship. Look it up in Limerickgaa.ie. They played both Hurling and football championship during April.
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=95018&season=2018&discipline=hurling&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=95020&season=2018&discipline=hurling&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=95097&season=2018&discipline=hurling&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=97389&season=2018&discipline=football&gender=M&type=Club
http://limerickgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?compID=97391&season=2018&discipline=football&gender=M&type=Club

You are missing my point. If league and championship are amalgamated and it begins in late March or early April then clubs have two full months before that to play club league and start SHC if they wish. And main focus will be on inter county club SHC rather than the league,


Basically the current structure but with a fairer home and away two match series and with no need to be playing 3/4 weeks in a row. Five months of inter county rather than seven or eight.


And counties no longer in contention after July would have no excuse anyway to be postponing their SHC. Dublin have been gone for over a month and still no championship games. Can hardly blame county team on that. Fair enough there are a small number of football team like Callaghan and Costello in SHC but no reason why there could not have been other games.

letowski

Barry Cleary, a good follow on Twitter, put up some interesting stats from the championship this year.

https://twitter.com/sheikhbarabas/status/1032199602252992512

https://twitter.com/sheikhbarabas/status/1032192336787382272

https://twitter.com/sheikhbarabas/status/1031990835955609605

Stats in hurling can be a bit misleading but it does tell some tales.

KK and Wexford featuring at the bottom of average number of scorers per game backs up the suggestion that the are very reliant on a small number of players to get scores. That said the Munster championship is a much more looser/higher scoring championship than Leinster.

Interestingly, John Conlon is the only player on the Sunday Games team of the year that features highly on the shot assists and shots from play. TJ Reid being so high kind of shows how great he is, but possibly how reliant KK are on him. Daniel Kearney also was extremely industrious for Cork this year, and possibly has an outside chance of an allstar. Limerick don't have any player ranked highly, but being second in average number of scorers suggest they were hitting a high score from a good spread of players.

terryrogers

High bike wrote: »

Dont know where you get the idea that Limerick got all the breaks when they only got 2 points from frees and Galway got 1-7 ,Galway also got nearly twice as many frees as Limerick.As for your view that Galway would have won a replay in spite of all their injuries and and fatigue after replays against KK and Clare I think your way off the mark and believe Limerick would have beaten them well

By getting the breaks I meant more so luck. For example, all the goals I think had an element of luck attached and they couldn't have come at better times for Limerick. Mulcahy's goal was especially fortuitous. The hawkeye call that was microns inside the post. These could have been different on another day.

The free count point is a moot point, Limerick had more fouls, simple as that. Ye have been getting less frees than the opposition all year which I think is due to your style of finding so much space for your forwards. The ref rode Limerick in the last 10 minutes alright but some big calls went your way earlier so over the course of the game the ref was even. Limerick had some injury troubles during the game too so both camps would have had this problem in a replay. And what would a 9 point lead slip have done to Limerick psychologically.

As I said I think Galway had way more room for improvement in terms of performance and game plan. But they didn't deserve a second bite at the cherry so thankfully the just result prevailed.

Bass Reeves

Bonniedog wrote: »

You are missing my point. If league and championship are amalgamated and it begins in late March or early April then clubs have two full months before that to play club league and start SHC if they wish. And main focus will be on inter county club SHC rather than the league,


Basically the current structure but with a fairer home and away two match series and with no need to be playing 3/4 weeks in a row. Five months of inter county rather than seven or eight.


And counties no longer in contention after July would have no excuse anyway to be postponing their SHC. Dublin have been gone for over a month and still no championship games. Can hardly blame county team on that. Fair enough there are a small number of football team like Callaghan and Costello in SHC but no reason why there could not have been other games.

Ya brillant club hurling during January - March when all there players are in college and again from Sept on. Club players madevto train all winter for to play all there hurling in the f@@king muck and rain as well as in the dark. What about the teams that make the end of the all Ireland series rush to play off championship to enter All Ireland club championship. It just as well you suggestion is so ill taught out it would never be considered

Bonniedog

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Ya brillant club hurling during January - March when all there players are in college and again from Sept on. Club players madevto train all winter for to play all there hurling in the f@@king muck and rain as well as in the dark. What about the teams that make the end of the all Ireland series rush to play off championship to enter All Ireland club championship. It just as well you suggestion is so ill taught out it would never be considered

:rolleyes:

When is the fkn All Ireland senior club championship played?

Of course they could always just do away with the senior inter county championship and concentrate on Junior B

djPSB

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The whole point of the new structure was to condense the hurling and football seasons so as to allow room for club games. His suggestion is going to elongate back to the old structure where the season starts in March and finishes some time in August. It is interesting that one of the few counties that played club championship in April and where players were back at there clubs playing meaniful games won the All Ireland.

Limerick played two rounds of there club Championship in April. Limerick club players have a minimum of 6 championship games each season, some will have eight games not counting replays and they have one division where you could have nine games to win the division. That is there championship along with that they have league and district competitions played while the inter county competition is on. This is what clubs in other counties crave a decent and meaniful club championship.

His idea would mean that club championship competition could not begin until after intercounty was over. So we would be back to all club championship starting in late August/September. With underage summer soccer staring it is only a matter of time before the adult competitions follow suit. They be delighted to have a from mid February until September without any real competitive GAA club fixtures. So you could kiss goodbye to club hurling if you think players would tran for a few games played in September

The April club championship games mean club players are back training in January though.

And don't finish until November/December.

Starting the club championships post intercounty means club players wouldn't need to be back training so early in the year and would provide some break.

The big issue for club players at the moment is that we've got the guts of 8 months training done and just two club championship games played.

Bass Reeves

Bonniedog wrote: »

:rolleyes:

When is the fkn All Ireland senior club championship played?

Of course they could always just do away with the senior inter county championship and concentrate on Junior B

It is played during the winter partly because of tradition. There was a taime when club championsip's were played alongside intercounty. However from the mid 90's on this changes as intercounty managers started to refuse to release players. This reduced club championship's games and forced it to be condensed.

Now as club's start to get the chance to pressuize counties boards to have games in April lads again and for Club championship to take up round robin formats like Limerick do. Change will not cannot happen straight away. I think that clubs will be more forcefull at county board meeting this year regarding release of players back to club. I think county manger's have county panels holiday in April will be resisted more and more. I expect that Croke park will start to stop what happened last April.

It was interesting that some of the most vocal voices for chane on TV came from Cork Pundits who the new format did not suit. The other issue is if adult soccer moves to a summer format the suggestion here would spell the end of club hurling. I see it already the struggle with soccer early in the season. If club game vacates from March to August soccer will grab it player will not came back to train for hurling and football in May or June.

mountgomery burns

letowski wrote: »

Stats in hurling can be a bit misleading but it does tell some tales.

KK and Wexford featuring at the bottom of average number of scorers per game backs up the suggestion that the are very reliant on a small number of players to get scores. That said the Munster championship is a much more looser/higher scoring championship than Leinster.

That was bandied about a lot about the Munster championship but to be honest I think quality of the forwards or offense in general was a big factor there. Wexford playing the sweeper might have stymmied them a bit but they aren't a free scoring side anyway and Kilkenny played 12 forwards in the championship which tells its own story.

I don't see that their defenses were stronger in general, Limerick walked through Galway and Kilkennys defenses in a way they only really managed against Waterford in Munster, and I guess Cork in the all Ireland semi.

I think the system suits a young team like Limerick and although the all Ireland was hard won for them and thoroughly deserved, I don't they'd have won it in last year's system. It gave them the confidence and opportunity to develop that a young team would thrive on. In contrast, it probably wasn't of benefit to Galway although at the same time they were on the right side of the draw. Kilkenny, though they don't have the same quality, have a young age profile and the format might aid their development in the next year or two. Corks best players are the younger ones, so when some of the older lads (Cardigan, Joyce, Cooper and you could probably throw in Cahalane) they will be challenging strongly for all Irelands. May seem daft as double Munster champs and pushing Limerick all the way this year, just think they're not all Ireland champion material just yet.

Bonniedog

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is played during the winter partly because of tradition. There was a taime when club championsip's were played alongside intercounty. However from the mid 90's on this changes as intercounty managers started to refuse to release players. This reduced club championship's games and forced it to be condensed.

Now as club's start to get the chance to pressuize counties boards to have games in April lads again and for Club championship to take up round robin formats like Limerick do. Change will not cannot happen straight away. I think that clubs will be more forcefull at county board meeting this year regarding release of players back to club. I think county manger's have county panels holiday in April will be resisted more and more. I expect that Croke park will start to stop what happened last April.

It was interesting that some of the most vocal voices for chane on TV came from Cork Pundits who the new format did not suit. The other issue is if adult soccer moves to a summer format the suggestion here would spell the end of club hurling. I see it already the struggle with soccer early in the season. If club game vacates from March to August soccer will grab it player will not came back to train for hurling and football in May or June.

You obviously didn't read, or don't understand what I wrote.

OldMrBrennan83

Excellent news for Waterford, and the Munster Championship.

https://twitter.com/beat102103/status/1101198924814131201?s=19

Reputable Rog

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Excellent news for Waterford, and the Munster Championship.

https://twitter.com/beat102103/status/1101198924814131201?s=19

As a Clare supporter I welcome this news, I always enjoyed Walsh Park and it's only fair Waterford get to play their home games there, particularly given the Emperors new clothes that is Cusack Park.
Just hope I get a ticket now.

Powerhouse

KK and Wexford featuring at the bottom of average number of scorers per game backs up the suggestion that the are very reliant on a small number of players to get scores. That said the Munster championship is a much more looser/higher scoring championship than Leinster.

[/QUOTE]


The view was put about on the Kilkenny forum in mid summer last year that the Munster championship wasn't real hurling, just roaring and shouting and a lot of noise and the teams would be found out against the real teams from Leinster who would use defenders. Ultimately this view was badly discredited by the results of matches. So rather than say "the Munster championship is a much more looser/higher scoring championship than Leinster" it is surely fair to say it's just better? It was fairly obvious last year that Kilkenny and Wexford were hugely reliant on a few players which is why they were well off the pace.