AI Senior Hurling- Liam McCarthy Cup 2018

cosatron

buswankers wrote: »

Agree 100% with this. But also think this fouling of forwards to stop them scoring goals is ridiculous too, what happened Canning straight after O'Donnell scored on Sunday was ridiculous & Cleary only got a yellow for it :rolleyes:. I was at the match but watched it when I got home & even the commentators saying how Donohue would be questioning Burke afterwards as to why he didn't pull O'Donnell down to try & stop him scoring the goal, I was like, are ye serious, that's just blatant cheating & I think anyone that does that (be it Galway or Clare or anyone else) should be shown a straight red. Rant over.

Personally I think what burke did is what's being coached at the moment, meet the attacker, slow him down and then release after committing the foul so you won't get booked and by doing this it gives the covering defenders, ie hanbury and david burke a chance to get back to tackle him which they made a balls off.

Stationmaster

buswankers wrote: »

Agree 100% with this. But also think this fouling of forwards to stop them scoring goals is ridiculous too, what happened Canning straight after O'Donnell scored on Sunday was ridiculous & Cleary only got a yellow for it :rolleyes:. I was at the match but watched it when I got home & even the commentators saying how Donohue would be questioning Burke afterwards as to why he didn't pull O'Donnell down to try & stop him scoring the goal, I was like, are ye serious, that's just blatant cheating & I think anyone that does that (be it Galway or Clare or anyone else) should be shown a straight red. Rant over.

It's a yellow card offence - simple as. Would be impossible to referee as a red card offence but I don't think there would be much support for it anyway.

letowski

In other news, James McGrath has left the refereeing panel for good, after not getting the AI final. The pool of refs is getting fairly shallow now after a few have retired over the last few years.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/im-not-your-second-choice-nor-your-backup-plan-referee-james-mcgrath-quits-over-all-ireland-snub-860878.html

The_Kew_Tour

Frank Murphy will have to come back

C__MC

Was a huge snub on mc graths behalf

Hasn’t reffed a final since 2013 replay?

Mac_Lad71

The structure of the championship needs to be looked at going forward. Kilkenny and Galway in Leinster are guaranteed at least a quarter final spot next year with the poor standard of other Leinster counties. Same cannot be said in ultra competitive Munster championship. Not a level playing field imo.
Time to ditch provincial championship and have an open draw.

The Lost Sheep

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

The structure of the championship needs to be looked at going forward. Kilkenny and Galway in Leinster are guaranteed at least a quarter final spot next year with the poor standard of other Leinster counties. Same cannot be said in ultra competitive Munster championship. Not a level playing field imo.
Time to ditch provincial championship and have an open draw.

Open draw straight knock out though?
I think keeping the provincial championships but alter their role in the whole all ireland series.

meriwether

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

The structure of the championship needs to be looked at going forward. Kilkenny and Galway in Leinster are guaranteed at least a quarter final spot next year with the poor standard of other Leinster counties. Same cannot be said in ultra competitive Munster championship. Not a level playing field imo.
Time to ditch provincial championship and have an open draw.

Swings and roundabouts though, there's de facto no relegation from the munster championship.

supernova5

at least 95% of hand passes are thrown in the game of hurling now,
a player attempting to hook a player from behind and not dispossessing him of the ball is nearly always deemed to be fouling now,
a player doing an overhead pull [rare enough nowadays] is running a very high risk of receiving a red card.
the rule of steps with ball in hand may as well be abolished as its totally at the discretion of the ref [that may vary from 5 to 17] depending on ref's mood
a forward charging into a defender will almost always get a free in, but ifs its a defender charging out into a forward its nearly always a free in also
lack of consistency by referees is a massive blight on our game

what's the point in having a hurling rule book when they are not enforced properly, where's it all going to end

zetecescort

supernova5 wrote: »

at least 95% of hand passes are thrown in the game of hurling now,
a player attempting to hook a player from behind and not dispossessing him of the ball is nearly always deemed to be fouling now,
a player doing an overhead pull [rare enough nowadays] is running a very high risk of receiving a red card.
the rule of steps with ball in hand may as well be abolished as its totally at the discretion of the ref [that may vary from 5 to 17] depending on ref's mood
a forward charging into a defender will almost always get a free in, but ifs its a defender charging out into a forward its nearly always a free in also
lack of consistency by referees is a massive blight on our game

what's the point in having a hurling rule book when they are not enforced properly, where's it all going to end

really? sure Paudie Maher has made a career out of doing this and getting the loudest cheer of the game

ShamoBuc

Nowlan Park has won County Pitch of the year award.
Not surprising really, pitch has gotten better and better in recent years in particular.

Mac_Lad71

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Nowlan Park has won County Pitch of the year award.
Not surprising really, pitch has gotten better and better in recent years in particular.

Now all it needs is a decent team

PTH2009

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

The structure of the championship needs to be looked at going forward. Kilkenny and Galway in Leinster are guaranteed at least a quarter final spot next year with the poor standard of other Leinster counties. Same cannot be said in ultra competitive Munster championship. Not a level playing field imo.
Time to ditch provincial championship and have an open draw.

They could easily have both the provincials and an open draw. Have the prov run in knockout basis and then have 2 grps of 5 teams

Grp 1
Munster Champs
Leinster Runners up
Leinster semi final loser
Munster Semi final loser
Leinster or Munster QF loser

Grp 2
Leinster Champs
Munster Runners up
Munster Semi final loser
Leinster semi final loser
Leinster or Munster QF loser

Top team each grp into the AI semi finals
AI QFs- 2nd Grp 1 vs 3rd Grp 2. 2nd Grp 2 vs 3rd Grp 1
Relagation 5th Grp 1 vs 5th Grp 2- winner of the Mcdonagh cup promoted

kala85

Who is on the Central referee appointment Committee

KrustyUCC

AFAIK the chair is Willie Barrett

Not sure who else is on the committee

kala85

KrustyUCC wrote: »

AFAIK the chair is Willie Barrett

Not sure who else is on the committee

Yes I think he was put on it in recent years . Maybe a coincidence that willie a tipp man and fergal horgan a tipp man got the all ireland last year.

Cant seem to find out the other years.

mountgomery burns

kala85 wrote: »

Yes I think he was put on it in recent years . Maybe a coincidence that willie a tipp man and fergal horgan a tipp man got the all ireland last year.

Cant seem to find out the other years.

Oh my god the dirty rotten conspirators!

Utopia Parkway

Mac_Lad71 wrote: »

The structure of the championship needs to be looked at going forward. Kilkenny and Galway in Leinster are guaranteed at least a quarter final spot next year with the poor standard of other Leinster counties. Same cannot be said in ultra competitive Munster championship. Not a level playing field imo.
Time to ditch provincial championship and have an open draw.

Munster is a very even standard at the moment but history has shown us that it won't always be like that. One team could become dominant for a while or a couple of teams could easily fall behind the others. I wouldn't be looking to change structures again immediately just because of that alone. You'd want to give it a few years first.

Bass Reeves

PTH2009 wrote: »

They could easily have both the provincials and an open draw. Have the prov run in knockout basis and then have 2 grps of 5 teams

Grp 1
Munster Champs
Leinster Runners up
Leinster semi final loser
Munster Semi final loser
Leinster or Munster QF loser

Grp 2
Leinster Champs
Munster Runners up
Munster Semi final loser
Leinster semi final loser
Leinster or Munster QF loser

Top team each grp into the AI semi finals
AI QFs- 2nd Grp 1 vs 3rd Grp 2. 2nd Grp 2 vs 3rd Grp 1
Relagation 5th Grp 1 vs 5th Grp 2- winner of the Mcdonagh cup promoted

Problem is you would have 3 more rounds of game. Another 3 weekend. Where do you get them from. Donal O Grady after the semi thaught that semi should go to replays after normal time and hurling semi's on differe t Sundays. Thomas Mulcahy wanted a break in the round robin. Whole point is the GAA is trying to make room for club games. Plenty of intercounty as is.

Pogue eile

zetecescort wrote: »

really? sure Paudie Maher has made a career out of doing this and getting the loudest cheer of the game

Must have gotten lessons from 'The Rock' :rolleyes:

BloodyBill

Pogue eile wrote: »

zetecescort wrote: »

really? sure Paudie Maher has made a career out of doing this and getting the loudest cheer of the game

Must have gotten lessons from 'The Rock' :rolleyes:

No real comparison between Diarmuid O Sullivan and Maher. Bothe great hurlers but the 'Rock' was a superior athlete and natural powerhouse who really could have been a prop in rugby. If he was born in Limerick he would never have made it onto a hurling pitch..he would have been nabbed by the rugby schools. Paudie Maher is strong but has no choice but to barrel and barge. He has no pace and really struggles to find space in the modern game. Still a guy with a super pass and good vision

mountgomery burns

Are props renowned for athleticism? Think Maher was better all round anyway.

Mucky_Tackies

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Are props renowned for athleticism? Think Maher was better all round anyway.

Tadgh Furlong certainly is and a lot of it is down to his GAA background

The Lost Sheep

BloodyBill wrote: »

No real comparison between Diarmuid O Sullivan and Maher. Bothe great hurlers but the 'Rock' was a superior athlete and natural powerhouse who really could have been a prop in rugby. If he was born in Limerick he would never have made it onto a hurling pitch..he would have been nabbed by the rugby schools. Paudie Maher is strong but has no choice but to barrel and barge. He has no pace and really struggles to find space in the modern game. Still a guy with a super pass and good vision

Possibly but would more likely have been a centre/wing.
If he was born in Limerick he would have likely played rugby in AIL.

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Are props renowned for athleticism? Think Maher was better all round anyway.

Many are but O Sullivan when he played rugby was a wing/centre as he took to game late

MfMan

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Are props renowned for athleticism? Think Maher was better all round anyway.

Maher has often gone for the big flashy clearance to the detriment of his defending; Conor Whelan picked his pocket for an important point in the 2015 semi-final in this way.

dastardly00

letowski wrote: »

In other news, James McGrath has left the refereeing panel for good, after not getting the AI final. The pool of refs is getting fairly shallow now after a few have retired over the last few years.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/im-not-your-second-choice-nor-your-backup-plan-referee-james-mcgrath-quits-over-all-ireland-snub-860878.html

kala85 wrote: »

Yes I think he was put on it in recent years . Maybe a coincidence that willie a tipp man and fergal horgan a tipp man got the all ireland last year.

Cant seem to find out the other years.

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Oh my god the dirty rotten conspirators!

The GAA have bucked the trend this year by picking James Owens to ref the AI final, and not James McGrath.

There has been a very clear trend in recent years of who will take charge of the AI final, and 2018 should have been James McGrath's turn.

The trend, from 2017 to 2010 (that's as far back as I have looked, and far enough to illustrate a trend), is that the referee chosen for the AI final:
(i) wasn't in charge of either of the AI Semi-finals
(ii) was in charge of an AI Quarter-final
(iii) was likely to have been in charge for either the Leinster or Munster provincial finals

As the table below shows, James McGrath didn't take charge of a semi-final, and he did ref a quarter final and a provincial final. On the other hand, James Owens did ref a semi-final but no quarter final.

Just as another example, in 2016 Brian Gavin was in charge of the AI final, quarter final and provincial final, but not a semi-final.

Year | Final | Semi-Final (Leinster Winner) | Semi-Final (Munster Winner) | Quarter-Finals | Leinster Final | Munster Final
2018 | J Owens | J Owens / F Horgan (Replay) | P O'Dwyer | F Horgan & J McGrath | F Horgan / J Owens (Replay) | J McGrath
2017 | F Horgan | B Kelly | J Owens | C Lyons & F Horgan | C Lyons | F Horgan
2016 | B Gavin | J Owens / J McGrath (Replay) | B Kelly | A Kelly & B Gavin | F Horgan | B Gavin
2015 | J Owens | B Gavin | B Kelly | J Ryan & J Owens | J McGrath | J Owens
2014 | B Kelly / B Gavin (Replay) | J McGrath | J Owens | B Kelly & B Gavin | B Kelly | B Gavin
2013 | B Gavin / J McGrath (Replay) | J Owens | J Ryan | B Kelly & B Gavin | J Ryan | J McGrath
2012 | B Kelly / J McGrath (Replay) | B Gavin | C McAllister | B Kelly & M Wadding | J McGrath | C McAllister
2011 | B Gavin | B Kelly | C McAllister | B Gavin & C McAllister | B Kelly | B Gavin
2010 | M Wadding | B Gavin | J Sexton | M Wadding & J Owens | M Wadding | B Gavin

Now maybe this is all whataboutery... and GAA HQ have decided in their eyes to pick the best ref for the final, but I can understand why James McGrath has thrown the toys out of the pram.

Realt Dearg Sec

He's making a spectacle of himself.

funnyname

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

He's making a spectacle of himself.

You could say the GAA made a spectator out of him.

spurshero

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

He's making a spectacle of himself.

Let him off. These refs are beginning to think there the star of the show .

terryrogers

I have a suspicion Owens may have got the final due to his habit of keeping the losing team in a game and playing for draws. A lot of refs are at that craic but Owens is the worst. I'd like to see his stats but it can be seen in the table above that his last 2 AI semi's ended in draws. Think he was involved in a drawn league final a few years ago too.

The most comical one was a qualifier between kilkenny & Waterford a few years ago where he blew up for a draw in injury time after a kilkenny player struck the ball but before it went over the bar!

His style does make for more exciting games though. Won't hurt the GAA either if he earns them €4m with a replay. My advice is get on the draw @ 9/1.

paddyirish23

terryrogers wrote: »

I have a suspicion Owens may have got the final due to his habit of keeping the losing team in a game and playing for draws. A lot of refs are at that craic but Owens is the worst. I'd like to see his stats but it can be seen in the table above that his last 2 AI semi's ended in draws. Think he was involved in a drawn league final a few years ago too.

The most comical one was a qualifier between kilkenny & Waterford a few years ago where he blew up for a draw in injury time after a kilkenny player struck the ball but before it went over the bar!

His style does make for more exciting games though. Won't hurt the GAA either if he earns them €4m with a replay. My advice is get on the draw @ 9/1.

My thoughts exactly!! Anyone know when the replay would be in if it's a draw??

Sycamore Tree

Not convinced. I reckon GAA have used up their manufactured draw quota in hurling this year. I reckon one of the football semis will be a draw.

mountgomery burns

MfMan wrote: »

Maher has often gone for the big flashy clearance to the detriment of his defending; Conor Whelan picked his pocket for an important point in the 2015 semi-final in this way.

10 excellent years for Tipp, probably waned a bit this year. O Sullivan played full back at inter county so hard for me to attest to his athleticism, but I've seen Maher show wing forwards a clean set of heels several times and rove forward for points.

Royal Legend

spurshero wrote: »

Let him off. These refs are beginning to think there the star of the show .

If I was picking the best referee for the final, McGrath would not be even considered IMO,

Some of the Hurling refs are too full of their own importance, McGrath being one, Horgan another.

windy shepard henderson

think Paud O'Dwyer from carlow is his name , the referee who reffed the cork v limerick was excellent that day and the few other times i have seen him , very much keeps p wit the pace and lets a lot of the softer frees go he would have been ideal for the final . james mcgrath is no where near that level in my opinion

Pogue eile

Has to be said some load of hore sh*te being spouted here the referee conspiracy takes the biscuit though!

TheRiverman

Derek McGrath has me thinking,anyone remember Max Smile blades ?.

tipp_tipp_tipp

Can't shake off the feeling Limerick are going to do it on Sunday. As a Tipp man, not sure which is worse, Galway going the double (which we've failed to do for so long), or playing "the All Ireland Champs Limerick" in Munster next year Nah in all honesty hope Limerick do it. Would be great for the game. Can't wait for Sunday now!

threeball

As a Galway man it's unfortunate that our all Ireland came at the expense of Waterford rather than kk, cork or tipp.
I thought limerick were going to be our opponents in the final all year but I think they're too like us for their own good. Clare caused us problems with movement that I don't think limerick will and I don't think they'll over power or out hurl us. I think this Galway team has it's heart set on emulating the 87, 88 team. Again unfortunate as two teams I'd like to see win one are limerick and Waterford.

Slieve Gullion

dastardly00 wrote: »

The GAA have bucked the trend this year by picking James Owens to ref the AI final, and not James McGrath.

There has been a very clear trend in recent years of who will take charge of the AI final, and 2018 should have been James McGrath's turn.

The trend, from 2017 to 2010 (that's as far back as I have looked, and far enough to illustrate a trend), is that the referee chosen for the AI final:
(i) wasn't in charge of either of the AI Semi-finals
(ii) was in charge of an AI Quarter-final
(iii) was likely to have been in charge for either the Leinster or Munster provincial finals

As the table below shows, James McGrath didn't take charge of a semi-final, and he did ref a quarter final and a provincial final. On the other hand, James Owens did ref a semi-final but no quarter final.

Just as another example, in 2016 Brian Gavin was in charge of the AI final, quarter final and provincial final, but not a semi-final.

Year | Final | Semi-Final (Leinster Winner) | Semi-Final (Munster Winner) | Quarter-Finals | Leinster Final | Munster Final
2018 | J Owens | J Owens / F Horgan (Replay) | P O'Dwyer | F Horgan & J McGrath | F Horgan / J Owens (Replay) | J McGrath
2017 | F Horgan | B Kelly | J Owens | C Lyons & F Horgan | C Lyons | F Horgan
2016 | B Gavin | J Owens / J McGrath (Replay) | B Kelly | A Kelly & B Gavin | F Horgan | B Gavin
2015 | J Owens | B Gavin | B Kelly | J Ryan & J Owens | J McGrath | J Owens
2014 | B Kelly / B Gavin (Replay) | J McGrath | J Owens | B Kelly & B Gavin | B Kelly | B Gavin
2013 | B Gavin / J McGrath (Replay) | J Owens | J Ryan | B Kelly & B Gavin | J Ryan | J McGrath
2012 | B Kelly / J McGrath (Replay) | B Gavin | C McAllister | B Kelly & M Wadding | J McGrath | C McAllister
2011 | B Gavin | B Kelly | C McAllister | B Gavin & C McAllister | B Kelly | B Gavin
2010 | M Wadding | B Gavin | J Sexton | M Wadding & J Owens | M Wadding | B Gavin

Now maybe this is all whataboutery... and GAA HQ have decided in their eyes to pick the best ref for the final, but I can understand why James McGrath has thrown the toys out of the pram.

My thought on this is Coady had to keep his mouth shut after the Limerick match. He so much wanted to whinge about McGrath but he had to bite his tongue. Coady got his payback using his influence with the refereeing panel to ensure McGrath didn't get this years final.

Dyr

I wonder would there be any appetite to make inter county refs a paid full time gig? Knock a lot of this messing on the head

BloodyBill

mountgomery burns wrote: »

MfMan wrote: »

Maher has often gone for the big flashy clearance to the detriment of his defending; Conor Whelan picked his pocket for an important point in the 2015 semi-final in this way.

10 excellent years for Tipp, probably waned a bit this year. O Sullivan played full back at inter county so hard for me to attest to his athleticism, but I've seen Maher show wing forwards a clean set of heels several times and rove forward for points.

'Clean set of heels'.. !? He's scored points but he's never outpaced anyone..must be the slowest back in the Tipp squad. Great hands and attitude though..probably seen the best of him unfortunately.

BloodyBill

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

Can't shake off the feeling Limerick are going to do it on Sunday. As a Tipp man, not sure which is worse, Galway going the double (which we've failed to do for so long), or playing "the All Ireland Champs Limerick" in Munster next year Nah in all honesty hope Limerick do it. Would be great for the game. Can't wait for Sunday now!

'Welcome home the hero's' will be the banner.. probably 100,000 in Limerick for the homecoming and JP McManus to give all players and mentors 250,000 euro each. And Calvin Harris to DJ

paddyirish23

If this goes to a replay, and it prob will, what's the date they've pencilled in for?

kala85

paddyirish23 wrote: »

If this goes to a replay, and it prob will, what's the date they've pencilled in for?

8th September as far as I know

PhuckHugh

I was just reading there on another forum that there's a bit of tension in the Limerick camp ... phone's being taken from players from management... the post was then promptly deleted .... this media ban is out of control.

Realt Dearg Sec

paddyirish23 wrote: »

If this goes to a replay, and it prob will, what's the date they've pencilled in for?

If they're following standard GAA protocol, theyll have no plan in place and just kind of hope it doesn't come up.

phkk

PhuckHugh wrote: »

I was just reading there on another forum that there's a bit of tension in the Limerick camp ... phone's being taken from players from management... the post was then promptly deleted .... this media ban is out of control.

Really????

Greensoup

phkk wrote: »

Really????

If it’s on an Internet forum it must be true. Must be.

OldMrBrennan83

Doesn't mean it's not though.