New Luas/Metro lines we might like.

tom1ie

Just out of interest why do dB drivers refuse to open the back doors? Surely they can be instructed to do it. It’s hardly for safety issues, more likely for fair avoidance?
Also I might have asked this before, apologies if I did, but with regard to traffic transponders to give green light priority to busses in the suburbs, is it the remit of the councils to get the transponders fitted to the traffic lights or do the nta have the remit to do this. Who has the budget and is this included in bus connects?

LXFlyer

tom1ie wrote: »

Just out of interest why do dB drivers refuse to open the back doors? Surely they can be instructed to do it. It’s hardly for safety issues, more likely for fair avoidance?
Also I might have asked this before, apologies if I did, but with regard to traffic transponders to give green light priority to busses in the suburbs, is it the remit of the councils to get the transponders fitted to the traffic lights or do the nta have the remit to do this. Who has the budget and is this included in bus connects?

They are entitled not to open them where they individually deem it unsafe to do so. That is the agreement issued by the Labour Court.

My own experience is that at major high volume stops they do use them regularly, but less so at lesser utilised stops.

Part of the problem is that there is still a large number of single door buses in the fleet, and until they are fully eliminated many passengers will automatically gravitate towards the front doors out of sheer habit.

It’s going to take time to address unfortunately.

Bus priority measures would be funded by the NTA and implemented by local authorities.

Consonata

One of the parts of Transport 21 that I really think was missed, was Metro West. If it were built and extended from Tallaght due east to Blackrock, that in conjunction with Metrolink would make the public transport experience vastly better in the city. The only parts of the city not served by some semblance of rail at that point would be the Harolds Cross/Terenure area, and around Finglas.

Edit: I know it's a bit crayony, I just wanted to show what I mean by Metro West since it probably hasn't been talked about for a while

Sam Russell

Consonata wrote: »

One of the parts of Transport 21 that I really think was missed, was Metro West. If it were built and extended from Tallaght due east to Blackrock, that in conjunction with Metrolink would make the public transport experience vastly better in the city. The only parts of the city not served by some semblance of rail at that point would be the Harolds Cross/Terenure area, and around Finglas.

Edit: I know it's a bit crayony, I just wanted to show what I mean by Metro West since it probably hasn't been talked about for a while

That would take about two hours to get from one end to the other.

What would be the journey generators?

Amirani

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the proposed Metro West route. It's way too long and windy - would take ages. Too many stops in what are low-density areas too.

citizen6

Some version of Metro West (could be BRT or Luas) would connect the parts of Blanchardstown far from the train line to the Dart, Metro and airport. It would connect Clondalkin to Dart and Lucan Luas to both Dart lines. Possibly Finglas Luas to Metro/airport as well.

That's in addition to the people travelling on the orbital route only, to Blanchardstown SC, Liffey Valley and The Square. Would be nice if they could run it closer to Connolly hospital which will have a mini children's hospital and Rotunda maternity hospital in the next few years as well.

If they could include at least the Blanchardstown SC to Fonthill section as part of the Lucan Luas, it would make the whole thing more viable. Would require the Liffey bridge though.

tom1ie

citizen6 wrote: »

Some version of Metro West (could be BRT or Luas) would connect the parts of Blanchardstown far from the train line to the Dart, Metro and airport. It would connect Clondalkin to Dart and Lucan Luas to both Dart lines. Possibly Finglas Luas to Metro/airport as well.

That's in addition to the people travelling on the orbital route only, to Blanchardstown SC, Liffey Valley and The Square. Would be nice if they could run it closer to Connolly hospital which will have a mini children's hospital and Rotunda maternity hospital in the next few years as well.

If they could include at least the Blanchardstown SC to Fonthill section as part of the Lucan Luas, it would make the whole thing more viable. Would require the Liffey bridge though.

No need for Lucan Luas if we can get Lucan brt going along the n4 qbc’s and run feeder “local” busses to the brt stops.

BonnieSituation

tom1ie wrote: »

No need for Lucan Luas if we can get Lucan brt going along the n4 qbc’s and run feeder “local” busses to the brt stops.

Lucan Luas and BRT can jump. No real need (not strictly true in some senses) for either and they're so unlikely that talk of then will remove improvements that are badly needed elsewhere.

Open Kishoge; straighten routes (ie. Stop ramming every 25A and B through Foxborough and use the outer ring road bus lanes)

Widen Griffeen Avenue and bus lane it from Griffeen Road to Outer Ring.
Change morning light sequence onto outer ring to prioritize Griffeen/Foxborough traffic rather than the Outer Ring. This is a huge bottle neck that kills the whole area.

Stop serving Chapelizod and Islandbridge on village routes. Increase frequency on 26 to counteract this.

But open Kishoge. Has to be the priority now.

marno21

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Lucan Luas and BRT can jump. No real need (not strictly true in some senses) for either and they're so unlikely that talk of then will remove improvements that are badly needed elsewhere.

Open Kishoge; straighten routes (ie. Stop ramming every 25A and B through Foxborough and use the outer ring road bus lanes)

Widen Griffeen Avenue and bus lane it from Griffeen Road to Outer Ring.
Change morning light sequence onto outer ring to prioritize Griffeen/Foxborough traffic rather than the Outer Ring. This is a huge bottle neck that kills the whole area.

Stop serving Chapelizod and Islandbridge on village routes. Increase frequency on 26 to counteract this.

But open Kishoge. Has to be the priority now.

John Curran asked re: Kishogue earlier this year and the reply from the Minister was 2020.

BonnieSituation

marno21 wrote: »

John Curran asked re: Kishogue earlier this year and the reply from the Minister was 2020.

Aye. And? Quite frankly as useless as John is I don't really care what the response to him was.

2020 is 2 years away. It's been built since 2008 iirc.

With the PPT open it's imperative that it's pushed forward given the state of the area for PT provision.

That being said, if I'm still living in Dublin in 2020 I'll jump in front of the first services out of despair

marno21

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Aye. And? Quite frankly as useless as John is I don't really care what the response to him was.

2020 is 2 years away. It's been built since 2008 iirc.

With the PPT open it's imperative that it's pushed forward given the state of the area for PT provision.

That being said, if I'm still living in Dublin in 2020 I'll jump in front of the first services out of despair

I agree with you about opening it. I'm only posting the most recent published date for opening

Id imagine the NTA would also agree but Shane Ross doesn't appear to care and is happy with leaving it until 2020

Money being shovelled into planning a Luas line for the area to compete for limited road space meanwhile there is a 4 track rail line being heavily under-utilised including the unopened station

BonnieSituation

marno21 wrote: »

I agree with you about opening it. I'm only posting the most recent published date for opening

Id imagine the NTA would also agree but Shane Ross doesn't appear to care and is happy with leaving it until 2020

Money being shovelled into planning a Luas line for the area to compete for limited road space meanwhile there is a 4 track rail line being heavily under-utilised including the unopened station

You're grand. I'm on your side too.

Just need to rant it out.

citizen6

Where should the Luas be extended from Charlemont/Beechwood once Metrolink opens? It would be a terrible waste of a high capacity cross city link if it terminated there permanently.

1. Charlemont to Tallaght: run 3.5km along the canal from Charlemont to red line at Suir Road, cut and cover tunnel as necessary. Run extra trams from Tallaght with some running via Charlemont to Broombridge/Finglas. Some trams from Broombridge to turn back at Suir Road. Very messy tie-in at Charlemont.

2. Beechwood to South-west: if Metro tunnel runs south of Beechwood, then a separate 5.5km Luas tunnel from north of Beechwood to Spawell or Knocklyon Road via Rathfarnham or Terenure. Continue overground to Firhouse.

3. As above but Metro and Luas tunnels run to/from Windy Arbour - easier tie-ins and Metro could run via Rathmines.

4. Charlemont/Beechwood to N11 and UCD. 2.5km/1.5km tunnel to Donnybrook Bus Depot, then continue at-grade out the N11. Could potentially connect back in with other Green line near Sandyford or Cherrywood.

CatInABox

citizen6 wrote: »

Where should the Luas be extended from Charlemont/Beechwood once Metrolink opens? It would be a terrible waste of a high capacity cross city link if it terminated there permanently.

1. Charlemont to Tallaght: run 3.5km along the canal from Charlemont to red line at Suir Road, cut and cover tunnel as necessary. Run extra trams from Tallaght with some running via Charlemont to Broombridge/Finglas. Some trams from Broombridge to turn back at Suir Road. Very messy tie-in at Charlemont.

2. Beechwood to South-west: if Metro tunnel runs south of Beechwood, then a separate 5.5km Luas tunnel from north of Beechwood to Spawell or Knocklyon Road via Rathfarnham or Terenure. Continue overground to Firhouse.

3. As above but Metro and Luas tunnels run to/from Windy Arbour - easier tie-ins and Metro could run via Rathmines.

4. Charlemont/Beechwood to N11 and UCD. 2.5km/1.5km tunnel to Donnybrook Bus Depot, then continue at-grade out the N11. Could potentially connect back in with other Green line near Sandyford or Cherrywood.

Easiest, quickest and cheapest would be to run it down the canal to Grand Canal Dock station and create an interchange with the Dart. This would provide some benefit while they figure out what to do with it long term.

Sam Russell

CatInABox wrote: »

Easiest, quickest and cheapest would be to run it down the canal to Grand Canal Dock station and create an interchange with the Dart. This would provide some benefit while they figure out what to do with it long term.

And would not be costly. Adelaide Road is already an ideal start as far as Leeson St.

antoinolachtnai

Surely extending along the dodder valley from Milltown to Rathfarnham and maybe beyond would be the thing to do if building a Luas spur?

citizen6

CatInABox wrote: »

Easiest, quickest and cheapest would be to run it down the canal to Grand Canal Dock station and create an interchange with the Dart. This would provide some benefit while they figure out what to do with it long term.

Is there a real need for that though? There are bigger problems elsewhere that the Luas could solve.

CatInABox

citizen6 wrote: »

Is there a real need for that though? There are bigger problems elsewhere that the Luas could solve.

Oh certainly, there's better options out there, and more need for them too, except that any large scale Luas building won't happen for years after Metrolink is built, even then, it'll have to compete with extensions out to Bray, etc.

My guess is that any such project will be another ten year project, i.e. 2037. An extension down to GCD could be done in three years or so, i.e. 2030, or even earlier if it gets added into the Metrolink project, as the cost will be negligible relative to the Metrolink cost. Interchanges are also almost always good.

Sam Russell

CatInABox wrote: »

Oh certainly, there's better options out there, and more need for them too, except that any large scale Luas building won't happen for years after Metrolink is built, even then, it'll have to compete with extensions out to Bray, etc.

My guess is that any such project will be another ten year project, i.e. 2037. An extension down to GCD could be done in three years or so, i.e. 2030, or even earlier if it gets added into the Metrolink project, as the cost will be negligible relative to the Metrolink cost. Interchanges are also almost always good.

It could be done before Metrolink. That is as the first part of the tie-in for Metrolink at Charlemont. It will give the trams somewhere to go during construction.

citizen6

Sam Russell wrote: »

It could be done before Metrolink. That is as the first part of the tie-in for Metrolink at Charlemont. It will give the trams somewhere to go during construction.

The location and design of the MetroLink tie-in will dictate a lot. I think the preferred future Luas direction should be considered now while Metrolink is being designed. Otherwise the opportunity may be lost to provide a relatively cheap, high capacity Luas to somewhere that badly needs it.

Sam Russell

citizen6 wrote: »

The location and design of the MetroLink tie-in will dictate a lot. I think the preferred future Luas direction should be considered now while Metrolink is being designed. Otherwise the opportunity may be lost to provide a relatively cheap, high capacity Luas to somewhere that badly needs it.

I was assuming the 'emerging preferred route' would in fact be the actual final route. Obviously if a different tie-in is chosen, then other choices for the Luas Green Line will be possible.

Going west along the canal - Harold's Cross is one km and Dolphin's Barn is just over 2 km. Possibly turn south at Harold's Cross and head up to Terenure.

I prefer the going East- there is no road space going West, and if tunneling, would be better to have the Metro going that way.

citizen6

Sam Russell wrote: »

I was assuming the 'emerging preferred route' would in fact be the actual final route. Obviously if a different tie-in is chosen, then other choices for the Luas Green Line will be possible.

Going west along the canal - Harold's Cross is one km and Dolphin's Barn is just over 2 km. Possibly turn south at Harold's Cross and head up to Terenure.

I prefer the going East- there is no road space going West, and if tunneling, would be better to have the Metro going that way.

Yeah if the tie-in is Charlemont the options aren't great. I think it's another argument in favour of Metro tunnelling to Beechwood at least.

roadmaster

Between Luttrellstown Castle and Blanchardstown shopping center there is a land bank reserved on the south side of clonsilla road for Metro west. But now with metro west it appears gone will the land be kept for a potential line in the future or will it be released for development. This mainly only apply s to a piece of land opposite st mochtas soccer club where porterstown station was going to be built. This also apply s to most infrastructure but the problem is how long do you wait as if you wait 30 years to build some infrastructure it may be out of date or needed in a different location.

Kellyconor1982

Always loved the idea of metro west. Really great having an orbital system around the city and it is something that needs to be done.

However, I would personally prioritise a metro sw line before it. This line would really hit a lot of big target areas. Ideally both would terminate in Tallaght, though i wouldn't be opposed to metro west going all the way around through knocklyon,rathfarnham, on to dundrum and towards bray. However, cost wise this would be a major issue and there probably would be an argument that the 75 bus already covers a lot of it.

Thrashssacre

Extend the red line luas along the canal from goldenbridge until at least grange castle with a tunnel from just past the Fatima stop through town to maybe clontarf or east point business part

This would provide a south west to north east underground line across the city and would be entirely grade seperated apart from one road near inchicore so conversion to metro would be possible at a later date

cameramonkey

These are two links from Dart stations to Luas lines.

The Shankill to Cherrywood would be about 2.3 KMs long. It would negate the need to extend the LUAS to Bray.



The second would link Lansdowne Road to the Green about 2KMs., it could be used to as a point to point service or could run onto the existing service to Broombridge. Because of the short distance if it was just the Green to Lansdowne you would not need much new rolling stock.

bk

cameramonkey wrote: »

The Shankill to Cherrywood would be about 2.3 KMs long. It would negate the need to extend the LUAS to Bray.

This would defeat the whole purpose of extending Luas to Bray. The goal is not necessarily to integrate with DART, though that is a nice side effect, but not the goal, the goal would be to continue Luas from Brides Glen through the area that is mostly green fields North West of Bray to allow those areas to be opened up to housing development similar to the Cherrywood SDZ.

In fact, I'm not even sure they plan to actually integrate with the DART at Bray. I don't think there would be an easy route into Bray town for Luas.

Instead not bother to integrate them at all (not actually a major benefit in doing so, I can't see many actual trips people would do on it) or they are talking about a new DART station north of Bray at Woodbrook Glen where they would integrate with.

http://ecouncil.dlrcoco.ie:9071/mgAi.aspx?ID=33210

Route Option 1:

From Bride’s Glen Stop the line runs in a south-easterly direction across new viaducts over the Loughlinstown River and M50 motorway. The route continues along the western side of the M50 and then M11 motorways to Wilford, and then it turns west away from the motorway to run through lands at Old Connaught and Fassaroe which are zoned for major development. The alignment through this area will depend upon emerging development proposals. Possible stops include Rathmichael, Crinken Glen, Wilford (with a park & ride facility), Old Connaught and Fassaroe.

I suspect in the long term this Luas line could also be split at Bray, with an extension heading towards Enniskerry and perhaps even around toward Greystones. Which could open up lots of new development areas and help relieve the issues around Bray Head. Though very much way down the line. Maybe 20 years or more from now.

Consonata

Ultimate crayonism, but this sort of map makes me drool. Combined proposals for Ireland2040 + Metro West and a few things.



Taken from Reddit

Stephen15

bk wrote: »

This would defeat the whole purpose of extending Luas to Bray. The goal is not necessarily to integrate with DART, though that is a nice side effect, but not the goal, the goal would be to continue Luas from Brides Glen through the area that is mostly green fields North West of Bray to allow those areas to be opened up to housing development similar to the Cherrywood SDZ.

In fact, I'm not even sure they plan to actually integrate with the DART at Bray. I don't think there would be an easy route into Bray town for Luas.

Instead not bother to integrate them at all (not actually a major benefit in doing so, I can't see many actual trips people would do on it) or they are talking about a new DART station north of Bray at Woodbrook Glen where they would integrate with.

http://ecouncil.dlrcoco.ie:9071/mgAi.aspx?ID=33210

A routing I would propose would be to turn Quinsborough into a Luas/Bus only street in order to serve the DART station. What should be done is the abandoned buildings, the row of shops and Bray Bowl in front of the DART station should be CPO'd and knocked down as it's one of the proposed bus hubs for Bus Connects and a Luas Station could also be added. Some road widening would also need to be done especially on Florence Road.

The reason it would be beneficial for the Luas to go the DART station would not be to connect with the Dart but also to connect with buses such as the proposed E1 which is replacing the 145 and local Bray routes like the proposed 201/202, 212 and 213 also if transport links from Bray were good the likes of BE and Wexford Bus may decide to use Bray as a hub instead of running their services into Dublin.

Having a Luas to Bray would be logical but it should only be opened after Metrolink is built as the Luas doesn't have the capacity at present. It would benefit Bray as it would provide Bray with good connections to Bride's Glen, Sandyford, Dundrum and Ranelagh not presently fulfilled by either the DART or the 145. Bray could also with rejuvenation plenty of empty units on the main street and lots of urban decay around the place there also needs to be more bus priority as it's a bottleneck for the high frequency 145 at present.

If the Luas was built to Bray it would also take a considerable amount of cars off the M/N11 which is a nightmare to get on and off atm as there many people commuting to Sandyford and further afield presently so it would Bray a more attractive place to buy property as it would have connections to DL, Blackrock, Ballsbridge/Grand Canal Dock and the City Centre with the Dart, connections to Stillorgan, UCD and Donnybrook with the 145/E1 and if Luas was extended there it would have pt connections to Cherrywood/Bride's Glen, Sandyford, Dundrum and Ranelagh and also the City Centre, DCU, Ballymun and the Airport through Metrolink and Bus Connects.

Rulmeq

Consonata wrote: »

Ultimate crayonism, but this sort of map makes me drool. Combined proposals for Ireland2040 + Metro West and a few things.

Taken from Reddit

You know they're dreaming when Navan's on there :P, but that would be some impressive network