Should we protest against the pope's visit?

Leroy42

Calhoun wrote: »

Well lets put aside the catholic religion, look at the fury and push back on Scientology versus Islam as a religion. Don't get me wrong Islam gets criticism as well but those criticizing it get flagged as racists.

I think the more traditional religions are protected by their very history and tradition. They go back many generations are as afforded a certain respect because of that.

Scientology is a very recent addition and is seen my many as a scam. It is strange that were any of the other religions to start now I would think that they would be treated in much the same way.

ohnonotgmail

garbo speaks wrote: »

In all fairness, I think if a mosque were to open near anyone's home, you would have the right to be very concerned.

i have one quite close to me. I have no concerns at all.

Graces7

Leroy42 wrote: »

You seem to be confusing tolerance with subservience. Catholics are very much tolerated, as are most religions in Ireland. That doesn't mean that one shouldn't look to question and try to influence those that follow it.



So should slavery have been left as it was. Slavery was a long held tradition in the US? What about FGM, should that simply be left unquestioned because it has been undertaken for so many years? The length of time of something does not indicate its virtuousness.

Sexism is sexism, it is simply hidden behind a veil of tradition and belief. Doesn't change the fact that the gender you dictates whether you will ever be accepted into the priesthood.

Oh dear! You need to learn what this is really about, Not sexism. Ah well... we understand and that is what matters after all, not how the outsiders see it.

Leroy42

Graces7 wrote: »

Oh dear! You need to learn what this is really about, Not sexism. Ah well... we understand and that is what matters after all, not how the outsiders see it.

So what is it all about.

I am a woman, can I be a priest.
No
Why not?
You are a woman!
But, thats sexist and we cannot discriminate jobs in this country based on gender.
Ah, buts its tradition and says so in this book.
Where does it say it in the book?
Never you mind, as a woman you can't be expected to understand that book

You don't think that is sexist?

munchkin_utd

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i have one quite close to me. I have no concerns at all.

I'd be more worried if I had a synagogue near me, that some looper would try and bomb it or whatever.

The way the OP was talking, I wouldnt want to live near a church either just in case they lost the plot and tried something out nearby !

baylah17

garbo speaks wrote: »

Calhoun wrote: »

Quite interesting to see peoples stances on religion, saw something on twitter yesterday where a guy was calling a bunch of people who were protesting the opening of a mosque in Kilkenny racist.

Then compare the reaction to protesting of the Scientology centre in Dublin or this thread. While i do understand that the Irish have been victimized more from the catholic religion i am just wondering why we don't hold all religions to the same standards.

In all fairness, I think if a mosque were to open near anyone's home, you would have the right to be very concerned.

Why?

knipex

work wrote: »

I believe a huge protest against the popes visit is required to show the government and church they are no longer welcome or wanted in our society. What do you think? There are many stakeholders that should protest their removal from any influence in our society. Some that come to mind are:
1) Anyone not supportive of misogyny
2) Anyone that doesn't believe in school indoctrination of children in a massive lie.
3) Anyone concerned about abusers in positions allowing abuse
4) Anyone with the most basic scientific education.
5) Anyone that doesn't support cults
6) Anyone that believes LGBT people should be treated fairly in society.
7) Anyone that believes women should have ANY control of their bodies.
8) Anyone that is not seen as equal in the church namely women children and men.


There are many other areas but I realised I have covered everyone. As such let's all go to the Phoenix park to let the Vatican know they are not welcome.
Are there any peaceful groups planning to protest?

Ahhh go away..


Just what need,, another bloody protest that achieves nothing except give the usual suspects a chance to appear on a stage or grab a megaphone..

We must have a hard core group of professional protesters at this stage..

You would achieve a much better result with wider ranging implications nationally and internationally if you just convinced everyone to stay away..

Imagine, all that pomp, all that ceremony, all the media and no-one shows...

Or those that consider themselves catholic and who want to show up and see \ meet the leader of their religion can do so without without bothering you or you bothering them.. no major headlines or news footage of the usual twats shouting into megaphones..

Leroy42

knipex wrote: »

Ahhh go away..


Just what need,, another bloody protest that achieves nothing except give the usual suspects a chance to appear on a stage or grab a megaphone..

We must have a hard core group of professional protesters at this stage..

You would achieve a much better result with wider ranging implications nationally and internationally if you just convinced everyone to stay away..

Imagine, all that pomp, all that ceremony, all the media and no-one shows...

Or those that consider themselves catholic and who want to show up and see \ meet the leader of their religion can do so without without bothering you or you bothering them.. no major headlines or news footage of the usual twats shouting into megaphones..

You have contradicted yourself in your own post. The protestors should stay away and just let the people who want to be there show how happy they are. How do you think that will look in the media?

That's right, the pope visits Ireland and met with crowds cheering and not a dissenting voice to be heard. Its not about bothering people (although protests tend to have that side effect). It is about getting your voice heard, letting those in power know that we don't all share the one opinion.

CruelCoin

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

and while I don't really care either way if he comes as I won't be going or listening to him, it's funny that so many here seem to be against the idea of a peaceful protest by those who may have a legitimate cause for one.. just because it might "look bad" in the era of Twitter and 24/7 news.

It really is weird.

As though you open the "lets stuff hundreds of dead babies in a septic tank" door and then expect there not to be protests.

Forever more, there will be protests. Only a complete imbecile wouldn't understand why.

garbo speaks

baylah17 wrote: »

Why?

Take a wild guess, Sherlock.

Calhoun

Leroy42 wrote: »

I think the more traditional religions are protected by their very history and tradition. They go back many generations are as afforded a certain respect because of that.

Scientology is a very recent addition and is seen my many as a scam. It is strange that were any of the other religions to start now I would think that they would be treated in much the same way.

Makes allot of sense, i think its something we should question. History and tradition should not mean that a religion is excluded from criticism, a certain degree of tolerance should be afforded for all or none.

I can be certain of one thing putting religion on a pedestal is a recipe for sleep walking into a more religiously indoctrinated Ireland.

pawdee

Really excited about this. I missed John Paul II's visit in '79 as I was in hospital. Who's supporting him on this tour? Judas Priest? Kreator? Exodus? Lamb of God? Sodom? Cathedral? Nazareth? Anyone know?

Will I Am Not

Do people have to protest everything these days?
Don’t like it? Don’t go. Annoying people that do want to go is just being a dick.

Leroy42

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Do people have to protest everything these days?
Don’t like it? Don’t go. Annoying people that do want to go is just being a dick.

Do we have to put up with people having their preferred people come over? If you like him, head over to Rome.
Annoying people by closing roads, using garda and ancilliary services, spending all that money that could go towards the homeless or special needs.

You are completely missing the point. The man represents an organisation, an organisation that many people feel has done incredible harm and continues to actively discriminate against women.

Even recently it stated that its own laws have precedence over Irish law (reporting child abuse) and continues to look for handouts from the Irish state in terms of tax free status etc.

work

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Do people have to protest everything these days?
Don’t like it? Don’t go. Annoying people that do want to go is just being a dick.

Protest everything? You miss the point I think? The head of the catholic church coming to Ireland is very significant and because of their disgraceful behavior some form of protest is probably merited.
Any protest should be visible and PEACEFUL. If this annoys people that want to go they do not understand tolerance and the right to a peaceful protest.
Not protesting is the same as supporting this!

knipex

Leroy42 wrote: »

You have contradicted yourself in your own post. The protestors should stay away and just let the people who want to be there show how happy they are. How do you think that will look in the media?

That's right, the pope visits Ireland and met with crowds cheering and not a dissenting voice to be heard. Its not about bothering people (although protests tend to have that side effect). It is about getting your voice heard, letting those in power know that we don't all share the one opinion.

Its about making noise and an opportunity to

a) to feel good about yourself and you look down on all those religious nutjobs
b) Pontificate about how you are so superior.
c) Show how your more important than people who believe differently
d) just piss people off.
e) Draw media attention to an event you are not in favour of.
f) Achieve absolutely nothing to benefit yourself.

Irish society has changed dramatically and is continuing to change. None gives a fiddlers about your religion or lack there of except you..

work

knipex wrote: »

Ahhh go away..


Just what need,, another bloody protest that achieves nothing except give the usual suspects a chance to appear on a stage or grab a megaphone..

We must have a hard core group of professional protesters at this stage..

You would achieve a much better result with wider ranging implications nationally and internationally if you just convinced everyone to stay away..

Imagine, all that pomp, all that ceremony, all the media and no-one shows...

Or those that consider themselves catholic and who want to show up and see \ meet the leader of their religion can do so without without bothering you or you bothering them.. no major headlines or news footage of the usual twats shouting into megaphones..

What I think it could achieve is the political push to remove the choke-hold and damaging control they have over schooling. This is happening but too slowly and I do not want to see it any longer especially for my kids.
People will attend it so it is a complete waste of time to try and keep people away. The catholic church has support as people were indoctrinated from a young age into it and in their society....
I absolutely agree that the usual headbangers that like to protest will be there but what can we do? Perhaps if the good ordinary people that realise the churches hold is wrong were to take a stand then something could be achieved. Political parties will implement policies that get them elected so we should show them this matters.

work

knipex wrote: »

Its about making noise and an opportunity to

a) to feel good about yourself and you look down on all those religious nutjobs
b) Pontificate about how you are so superior.
c) Show how your more important than people who believe differently
d) just piss people off.
e) Draw media attention to an event you are not in favour of.
f) Achieve absolutely nothing to benefit yourself.

Irish society has changed dramatically and is continuing to change. None gives a fiddlers about your religion or lack there of except you..

Interesting and misguided reply:
a) to feel good about yourself and you look down on all those religious nutjobs....Why would you look down on anyone
b) Pontificate about how you are so superior.....Why would anyone think they are superior?
c) Show how your more important than people who believe differently....Why would anyone think they are superior to someone that thinks differently, do you mean those of us that cannot go to heaven because we are not in the club
d) just piss people off.??? Peaceful protest
e) Draw media attention to an event you are not in favour of......THIS IS A GOOD IDEA
f) Achieve absolutely nothing to benefit yourself......POSSIBLY ALTER THE HOLD THE CHURCH HAS ON OUR SCHOOLS

knipex

work wrote: »

What I think it could achieve is the political push to remove the choke-hold and damaging control they have over schooling. This is happening but too slowly and I do not want to see it any longer especially for my kids.
People will attend it so it is a complete waste of time to try and keep people away. The catholic church has support as people were indoctrinated from a young age into it and in their society....
I absolutely agree that the usual headbangers that like to protest will be there but what can we do? Perhaps if the good ordinary people that realise the churches hold is wrong were to take a stand then something could be achieved. Political parties will implement policies that get them elected so we should show them this matters.

Sweet baby jeebus and his holy mother.

I went to school in the late 70's and was "indoctorined" to a far far greater extent than any child today.

My kids go to a local church of Ireland school.
I haven't set foot in a church except for a wedding or a funeral in over 20 years..
My kids were baptised, mainly because their mother wanted them to be but we stopped there. When they are older they can make their own choices.

They do religion at school and ask lots of questions about it, we answer them, explain about other religions but christian denominations and non christian faiths. When they are older they can decide for themselves what to believe.

Kids are kids, the days of this country being run by the church are long gone. My generation and the generation before that did a lot to end that but we didn't make a huge noise about it. We just got on with our lives without the need to be seen to protest.

Do something that will actually make a difference instead of making noise..

work wrote: »

d) just piss people off.??? Peaceful protest

Thats just funny.....

Down with that sort of thing. No way. We won’t pay. What do we want? A protest. When do we want it? Now.

Leroy42

knipex wrote: »

Its about making noise and an opportunity to

a) to feel good about yourself and you look down on all those religious nutjobs
b) Pontificate about how you are so superior.
c) Show how your more important than people who believe differently
d) just piss people off.
e) Draw media attention to an event you are not in favour of.
f) Achieve absolutely nothing to benefit yourself.

Irish society has changed dramatically and is continuing to change. None gives a fiddlers about your religion or lack there of except you..

I wondering how then do you thing change ever happens? According to you, people unhappy with something should simply stay away. You do realise that the reason that religion is not as important as it used to be is because people stood up to practices that people had simply accept or ignored in the past.

Leroy42

I find it strange that people are complaining that some people want to protest.

Are those complaining doing so because they think all protests are inherently bad or just because it happens to be the Catholic Church?

knipex

Leroy42 wrote: »

I wondering how then do you thing change ever happens? According to you, people unhappy with something should simply stay away. You do realise that the reason that religion is not as important as it used to be is because people stood up to practices that people had simply accept or ignored in the past.

Oh sweet f*&K

What exactly will protesting the popes visit achieve ??

Religion is not as important as it used to be precisely because people ignored the church. it became relevant for that very reason..

Dont feed it starve it..

DEFTLEFTHAND

Why do you assume that you speak for all of society OP?

knipex

Leroy42 wrote: »

I find it strange that people are complaining that some people want to protest.

Are those complaining doing so because they think all protests are inherently bad or just because it happens to be the Catholic Church?

Not really complaining but giving an opinion (which isn't really allowed anymore)

But seeing as you asked..

Sick of the same twats protesting everything, blocking roads, eating up resources and getting in the way of the vast majority who just want to get on with their lives..

So protests in general but especially liberal, lefty, whingy protests.. where a protest is protested by those protesting against another group begin involved tin their protest even though its not their protest but a general protest.

That kind of bullsh1t protest..

Understand now ??

billyhead

knipex wrote: »

Not really complaining but giving an opinion (which isn't really allowed anymore)

But seeing as you asked..

Sick of the same twats protesting everything, blocking roads, eating up resources and getting in the way of the vast majority who just want to get on with their lives..

So protests in general but especially liberal, lefty, whingy protests.. where a protest is protested by those protesting against another group begin involved tin their protest even though its not their protest but a general protest.

That kind of bullsh1t protest..

Understand now ??

I know people are free to express their opinions but what exactly is protesting going to achieve other then create bad PR. The redress scheme is in place to compensate people that were abused so leave it at that.

DEFTLEFTHAND

P.Walnuts wrote: »

We need to watch out for the fake Pope, he can be identified by his high top sneakers and incedibly foul mouth

Isn't Francis the 'fake' Pope. Church apparently made a hash of Benedict's abdication.

Leroy42

Of course your opinion is allowed.

So its the people making the protest that you have a problem with, along with the things they are protesting. Is that right?

So you have no problem with protests once they are the type of people you like and about the things that you consider important?

These liberal, leftists have an issue and want to be heard. What is wrong with that. Are you ok with roads being blocked for the Pope to visit? Eating up resources to cover the event.

I have no issue with him coming here, I have no issue with people that want to protest what is clearly and organisation that has serious issues. If you don't think that sexism and child molestation are important issue to be addressed I do wonder what you do consider important.

I get it, the Catholic church has no impact on you. Maybe you were in a loveless marriage fro years being told that you couldn't get divorced because that what the church believed. Maybe you weren't affected, or know of anyone that was, by the child rape cases, the mother an baby homes. Maybe you don't care that many parents are forced to baptise their children simply because the church put their need for recruits ahead of the education of children. And maybe you or not a woman or care that the organisation practices blatant sexism.

Good for you, that really is great. But there are plenty of people can do see the problems, and see the head of the organisation as the symbol of that organisation.

Leroy42

knipex wrote: »

Oh sweet f*&K

What exactly will protesting the popes visit achieve ??

Religion is not as important as it used to be precisely because people ignored the church. it became relevant for that very reason..

Dont feed it starve it..

Religion is still very important to a very large section of the community, and more importantly to the state. Yes it has diminished but the last time the Pope visited was 1979 and who knows when he will return. When else do you think people should make their feelings known.

The church didn't become irrelevant simply because people ignored it, people actively stood up to it. They called it out when it tried to cover things up. They undertook lengthy campaigns to have their voices heard. Do you think the CC would have told us about Tuam babies on their own?

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Why do you assume that you speak for all of society OP?

They don't are seeking peoples opinions.

billyhead wrote: »

I know people are free to express their opinions but what exactly is protesting going to achieve other then create bad PR. The redress scheme is in place to compensate people that were abused so leave it at that.

Create bad PR for whom? If its for the church, then that's their problem and they should be willing to deal with issues. If its for the country, then really? People protesting is bad PR?

Throughout all this back and forth, nobody has been able to put forward a reason why it is acceptable for an organisation to practice such blatant sexism and why we should, when the state has said that it values men and women equally, welcome a person so against that ideal.

Will I Am Not

Leroy42 wrote: »

I find it strange that people are complaining that some people want to protest.

Are those complaining doing so because they think all protests are inherently bad or just because it happens to be the Catholic Church?

I’m just sick of protests at this stage. We’re now at the stage where people are protesting against democracy and decisions in a court of law.

Rezident

work wrote: »

I believe a huge protest against the popes visit is required to show the government and church they are no longer welcome or wanted in our society. What do you think? There are many stakeholders that should protest their removal from any influence in our society. Some that come to mind are:
1) Anyone not supportive of misogyny
2) Anyone that doesn't believe in school indoctrination of children in a massive lie.
3) Anyone concerned about abusers in positions allowing abuse
4) Anyone with the most basic scientific education.
5) Anyone that doesn't support cults
6) Anyone that believes LGBT people should be treated fairly in society.
7) Anyone that believes women should have ANY control of their bodies.
8) Anyone that is not seen as equal in the church namely women children and men.


There are many other areas but I realised I have covered everyone. As such let's all go to the Phoenix park to let the Vatican know they are not welcome.
Are there any peaceful groups planning to protest?

People like you are making the world a worse place. I can't agree with the catholic church but the current pope is clearly one of the better ones and at least he is trying to make the world a better place, which is more than can be said for you.

Rezident

And don't worry about your protestors - we can all sadly and depressingly guarantee that the very same protestors who are out regularly abusing the Gardai will be there, as always, with their palestinian flags and water charges signs, loudly and abusively protesting whatever and making the world a worse place.

work

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Why do you assume that you speak for all of society OP?

I asked a question "Should we...." as no opinion represents all of society. I just gave my opinion. The responses have shown various general groupings.
1) Would like to actively protest the pope coming to Ireland.
2) Don't care and will ignore. Plenty dislike protest due to muppets protesting about everything.
3) Actively support his coming. Either to support the religeon or feel a protest is in some way non tolerant!
It was interesting to see how divided it is.

I think the second group is the largest.

TheValeyard

Im going to go protest about the protesters

baylah17

garbo speaks wrote: »

Take a wild guess, Sherlock.

Again why?

Leroy42

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I’m just sick of protests at this stage. We’re now at the stage where people are protesting against democracy and decisions in a court of law.

Who is protesting against democracy?

And who is protesting about a court of law?

People are protesting because the set-up of things is not suitable now (if it ever was).

Take Trumps election for example. The majority voted for one candidate, but because of an archaic system, made up at a time of long travel times and less engagement, the other person got in. It is perfectly reasonable for protesters to point out the issue and look for change.

In terms of the court case, lets take the example of the recent Ulster trial. People are protesting that the system is stacked against the alleged victim. They have to almost prove they have never done anything to suggest they might be up for it. Not going to get into the case here, but there is clear issue with how the legal system deals with these cases (and there are plenty of examples of how alleged perpetrators are badly let down as well).

I find it hard to understand why people seem to be more upset with a few protesters than they are at the head of an organisation that undertook multiple child rapes, actively covered up the crimes and facilitated the perpetrators to avoid justice and in many cases placed them back into situations where they could continue their crimes. An organisation that condemns people for wanting an abortion, yet feels nothing for the actual children placed in their care. An organisation that spent many years vilifying gay people, an issue that will linger for many years to come. An organisation that feels that condom's are so evil as to preach against their use in communities ravaged with AIDS.

But you're right, these people with their signs and whistles are the problem.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Boardnashea

I have no problem with Mr Pope visiting Ireland.
However I do have a problem with the Government paying his expense account while he is here.
If a particular church want their leader to visit then invite her/him, put her/him in a nice hotel, rent the Phoenix Park for a big party, pay for Gardaí to follow her/him around and then see her/him safely back onto the boat/train/plane and send them off home again.
But not on my taxes!

munchkin_utd

Boardnashea wrote: »

I have no problem with Mr Pope visiting Ireland.
However I do have a problem with the Government paying his expense account while he is here.
<snip>

the government isnt paying his expenses , so you can rest easily

Leroy42

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

And his position on women priests?

There is no doubt that he is far more progressive than his predecessor, but that is damning him with faint praise. Should he be given kudos for acknowledging LGBT are people too? Accepting of them!

That he brings in experts rather than uses a 2000+ year old book, well good for him. Most people have been doing that for years.

s7ryf3925pivug

It's not about objections to him as an individual. It's about specific issues with the institution he represents. If he has a progressive mindset then perhaps he might even respond positively.

Best to keep it simple: Pay the reparations they owe us.

ohnonotgmail

munchkin_utd wrote: »

the government isnt paying his expenses , so you can rest easily

so the church will be paying for the garda overtime?

knipex

Leroy42 wrote: »

And his position on women priests?

There is no doubt that he is far more progressive than his predecessor, but that is damning him with faint praise. Should he be given kudos for acknowledging LGBT are people too? Accepting of them!

That he brings in experts rather than uses a 2000+ year old book, well good for him. Most people have been doing that for years.

If any woman wants to be a priest that badly then the Anglican church or church of Ireland would welcome them with open arms.

But again I will ask the question. What exactly will a protest at the popes visit achieve ??

Leroy42

knipex wrote: »

If any woman wants to be a priest that badly then the Anglican church or church of Ireland would welcome them with open arms.

What, so you think they should change their entire belief system, probably one that has been ingrained in them since childhood and pretend to agree with a different religion simply because they are women?

We are always told that being a priest is a calling, a message from God himself. But rather than deal with the inherent sexism you think it best to just tell women to find somewhere else to work.

And of course being barred from becoming a priest is simply the most visible result of the practice.

knipex wrote: »

But again I will ask the question. What exactly will a protest at the popes visit achieve ??

Do you think protests never achieve anything? The water protests prove that theory wrong. Do you think we wouldn't have WC now if it wasn't from the protests.

DO you think women would have a vote if it wasn't for the protests of the suffragetes? Do you think apartheid would have ceased without the protests in SA and across the world.

It will let the pope know that those protesters have concerns. It will let the state know that all people are not happy with the Catholic Church. It will drive home that Ireland is no longer the country it was in 1979. I would hope that with enough support it would show the pope that the organisation that he heads is not welcome here until it changes and makes amends for the many terrible things it oversaw over many years.

Graces7

Not a matter of changing "their entire belief system; as they are very much alike. Not a "different religion" either. And not "sexism"

We woman have huge role to play and in many ways more so than the priests etc.

Equality is not homoegeneity . Who wants to be like a .... man!

Leroy42 wrote: »

What, so you think they should change their entire belief system, probably one that has been ingrained in them since childhood and pretend to agree with a different religion simply because they are women?

We are always told that being a priest is a calling, a message from God himself. But rather than deal with the inherent sexism you think it best to just tell women to find somewhere else to work.

And of course being barred from becoming a priest is simply the most visible result of the practice.



Do you think protests never achieve anything? The water protests prove that theory wrong. Do you think we wouldn't have WC now if it wasn't from the protests.

DO you think women would have a vote if it wasn't for the protests of the suffragetes? Do you think apartheid would have ceased without the protests in SA and across the world.

It will let the pope know that those protesters have concerns. It will let the state know that all people are not happy with the Catholic Church. It will drive home that Ireland is no longer the country it was in 1979. I would hope that with enough support it would show the pope that the organisation that he heads is not welcome here until it changes and makes amends for the many terrible things it oversaw over many years.

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Down with that sort of thing. No way. We won’t pay. What do we want? A protest. When do we want it? Now.

Well ok; off ye go then!

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Leroy42 wrote: »

That he brings in experts rather than uses a 2000+ year old book, well good for him. Most people have been doing that for years.

Including many prominent members of his church. The Catholic Church has a far better attitude towards science than many protestant demoninations.

Leroy42

Graces7 wrote: »

Not a matter of changing "their entire belief system; as they are very much alike. Not a "different religion" either. And not "sexism"

We woman have huge role to play and in many ways more so than the priests etc.

Equality is not homoegeneity . Who wants to be like a .... man!

Really, you think its like choosing a soft drink or something?

Of course its a different religion, how can you even say that?

And what is not sexism? They will not allow women become priests for the sole reason that they are women. Not heir education, not their experience, not their abilities, not their faith. Simply based on gender you cannot do it.

They may well do more than priests, but that is not equality.

And women do not want to be like a man, they want to be treated equally.

Rubberchikken

You organise op. Off you go. But don't be too shocked if youre on youre lonesome.

Many will be happy to see the His Holiness visit our Catholic country.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rubberchikken wrote: »

You organise op. Off you go. But don't be too shocked if youre on youre lonesome.

Many will be happy to see the His Holiness visit our Catholic country.

"Ours"...?!