Should we protest against the pope's visit?

Sleeper12

Looks like there could be a bigger turnout in protest at the garden of remembrance than the pope got yesterday in town.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/update-thousands-gather-at-stand4truth-protest-in-garden-of-remembrance-864575.html

Sleeper12

AdrianII wrote: »

In fairness it was raining in Dublin until about 2pm. Most people would have needed to leave a few hours before the start to get in with the road closures.

Still a poor number from the 500k they expected.

I'm in Dublin & the heavy rain stopped before 9am It hasn't rained in Dublin 5 all afternoon.


If I had tickets for a Slane gig I'd be standing in the muck with 80,000 others

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm in Dublin & the heavy rain stopped before 9am It hasn't rained in Dublin 5 all afternoon.


If I had tickets for a Slane gig I'd be standing in the muck with 80,000 others

I live very near the Phoenix Park and it rained on and off up until just before he did his rounds in the Popemobile. Different parts of Dublin can vary a lot weather-wise. Still very gloomy now.

But I agree. The weather is an excuse. Umbrellas and raincoats are all that are needed. This weather was forecast so people were well able to prepare.

Sleeper12

Turned on Rte to try get official numbers. I didn't but they did an ariel shot during the mass. They have the whole area boxed off in roughly square sections to accommodate 500,000. Because of this you can see the area they expected to be full and most of it is empty.

It's like the photo Sean Spicer showed at his first press conference where he had to lie on behalf of trump about the crowd size.

If that crowd is actually 130,000 it gives you a good idea of the low turnout yesterday in the city. They expected 100,000 yesterday so that's about 3/4s of the crowd you can see in the park now.

Sycamore Tree

130,000? Wow.

Death knell for the influence of the Roman organisation in Ireland.

Odhinn

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

130,000? Wow.

Death knell for the influence of the Roman organisation in Ireland.

Tbh, the odds are you'll still have the census saying we're over 75% catholic, despite the non-mass attending, contraception using , same sex marriage approving, divorcing, sex before marriage-ing from large segments of the population.

Edward M

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

130,000? Wow.

Death knell for the influence of the Roman organisation in Ireland.

That hasn't happened this weekend just though.
That has happened over the past ten years or so, recent referenda results point to this anyway, society is much more inclusive and tolerant than catholicism allows.
If the CC is to somehow come back to anything like thriving, it must be driven by the wishes of its people, not try to drive its people to its will.

Edward M

Odhinn wrote: »

Tbh, the odds are you'll still have the census saying we're over 75% catholic, despite the non-mass attending, contraception using , same sex marriage approving, divorcing, sex before marriage-ing from large segments of the population.

I'm a catholic, mostly no practicing, but I will attend services at times, funerals and masses for family members and such.
I still call myself catholic, that's my ethnicity I think, I maybe wrong, but if a document comes in, like the census, I will identify myself as being a catholic.

gormdubhgorm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So how does one leave?

That is like saying how do you get out of a room?
Do you need to be shown where the door is?

tylercheribini

Haha under 130k,only a "pilgrim" or two short of the predicted 500k, alot of that audience from abroad too. Considering the complete gulf between papal visit regarding financial and marketing resources, the protest demonstration attendances were far more impressive.

ThunbergsAreGo

500k was always madness

It's not the seventies anymore, seeing the pope isn't a big once in a lifetime opportunity, it's a 150 euro flight to Rome

Irish Kings

RTE just after claiming "500,000 tickets were booked out but only 150-300 thousand attended"

Sleeper12

naughtb4 wrote:

500k was always madness

naughtb4 wrote:

It's not the seventies anymore, seeing the pope isn't a big once in a lifetime opportunity, it's a 150 euro flight to Rome

The population of Ireland has increased 1.4 million since 1979. People believed the census stating 78 percent RC when we clearly are below 50 percent. They thought that they would turn away another 500,000 on top of the 500,000 they were sure they would get in the park.

The church now needs to take a long look at itself.

The government needs to take a long look at how it views our population & the running of our schools.

The general public needs to take a long look at itself & in particular how it fills out the census form. Giving out about the control of the church isn't good enough if you really aren't RC don't put it on the census

Many lessons to be learned by all of us after this fiasco of a weekend

Annasopra

130,000?

Thats really mad considering that a huge amount of those 130,000 do not live here.

Sleeper12

Joeytheparrot wrote:

130,000?

I hate to be petty but the Gardai actually said less than 130,000.

Try_harder

Gardai arent standing over that figure

Sleeper12

Try_harder wrote:

Gardai arent standing over that figure

Have you a link to that?

I haven't seen any tickets but I would have thought that like any gig or event that the tickets would be scanned on entry. I assumed this was how the Gardai released official numbers so quickly.

So the number could actually be less than 100,000? It looked about 85,000 to me going by 80,000 in Slane or 85,000 in Croke Park

Seth Brundle

Edward M wrote: »

I'm a catholic, mostly no practicing, but I will attend services at times, funerals and masses for family members and such.
I still call myself catholic, that's my ethnicity I think, I maybe wrong, but if a document comes in, like the census, I will identify myself as being a catholic.

According to Herr Ratzinger when he was in charge you must attend mass amongst other things to be a member of the club.
Just because you identify as roman catholic doesn't make you one so why do you call yourself one if you aren't committed to it?

Irish Kings

Edward M wrote: »

I'm a catholic, mostly no practicing, but I will attend services at times, funerals and masses for family members and such.
I still call myself catholic, that's my ethnicity I think, I maybe wrong, but if a document comes in, like the census, I will identify myself as being a catholic.

Why would a "Catholic" not want to pray and go to mass ?, what you actually mean is you have some sort of cultural catholic background, that's not what the census is asking though.

Muahahaha

Seth Brundle

The gardai, medics, catering and other staff are making up most of that crowd

All My Stars Aligned

On the off chance that any of the organizers of the Stand 4 Truth event are reading this thread I would just like to say thank you. What a wonderful few hours spent with kind and compassionate people from all walks of life.

Edward M

Edward M wrote: »

I'm a catholic, mostly no practicing, but I will attend services at times, funerals and masses for family members and such.
I still call myself catholic, that's my ethnicity I think, I maybe wrong, but if a document comes in, like the census, I will identify myself as being a catholic.

ethnicity!?

indioblack

Seth Brundle wrote: »

According to Herr Ratzinger when he was in charge you must attend mass amongst other things to be a member of the club.
Just because you identify as roman catholic doesn't make you one so why do you call yourself one if you aren't committed to it?

So true. That's part of the problem, certainly in Ireland. You can't pick and mix.

Sycamore Tree

Muahahaha wrote: »

Wow!

This pleases me.

Well done Ireland!

eviltwin

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

On the off chance that any of the organizers of the Stand 4 Truth event are reading this thread I would just like to say thank you. What a wonderful few hours spent with kind and compassionate people from all walks of life.

A wonderful event, great music, lovely people and personally very healing. It was the salve needed at the end of a difficult few weeks.

Fighting Tao

eviltwin wrote: »

A wonderful event, great music, lovely people and personally very healing. It was the salve needed at the end of a difficult few weeks.

It was a wonderful event but I did find it extremely saddening at the same time. The way people were treated and abused is just wrong and should never have happened. As an Irish person I am ashamed that it happened in my country and that the organisation that perpetrated the crimes and covered them up was being celebrated by ~130k people in the Phoenix Park. ~130k people raising their caps to say we have no problem with the RCC. Faith can be practiced without providing validation to the RCC.

chalkitdown1

Muahahaha wrote: »

This was the largest audience to ever witness an mass in Ireland.

PERIOD!

erica74

eviltwin wrote: »

A wonderful event, great music, lovely people and personally very healing. It was the salve needed at the end of a difficult few weeks.

It looked like a great event, although "great" seems like the wrong word given the circumstances. I hope you understand what I mean. It appears to have been of benefit, again, the wrong word, to many people. I'd like to think the numbers that turned out were comforting for victims who attended. I hope they feel that the majority stand with them and hopefully this papal circus will initiate a change in Ireland.

Annasopra

eviltwin wrote: »

A wonderful event, great music, lovely people and personally very healing. It was the salve needed at the end of a difficult few weeks.

I couldnt make it. A friend shared Sarah Clancys poem. So powerful

*new verse for Sunday #Stand4Truth

Cherishing for Beginners

Cherish the meek
cherish the ranchers
cherish the guards
cherish the bankers
cherish the virgins
then ride them and cherish their sisters,
cherish tax exiles and entrepreneurs
cherish the rewards of intergenerational privilege
or if that's too hard for beginners
sure cherish the Rose of Tralee for starters,
cherish the goal and the point and the foul
cherish the priest's dirty sheets
but not the women who wash them,
don't mention her
or what she might need,
go on though and cherish the IFSC
and its type of laundries-
those ones are fine,
they are grand sure.
Cherish Them.

Cherish the pope and his
band of transglobal bootlickers
cherish the bishops
who moved paedophile priests
around like chess pieces
and were afflicted with severe mental reservations
every time child rape was mentioned
cherish the bureaucrats
who know that the institution always comes first
cherish the shame they implanted
on the whole population
then cherish the suicides
as collateral damage
in an otherwise virtuous struggle
cherish the high moral ground
they reached by tramping on
the graves of dead babies,
cherish the ring kissers
who made it all possible
sure give them a big round of applause
don't they deserve it

Cherish the men
because they couldn’t help it
if the women and girls went and fell pregnant,
cherish the foetus, the heartbeat,
but not the person it's in
then cherish the small graves
in their undisclosed wastelands
cherish the shovels
and boot soles that dug them-
let there be no doubt about it-
Yes We Can!
cherish the children
if they're from the right class
aren’t travelling people
and are not for god’s sake
seeking asylum,
don't forget too that we must
cherish the mute
and cherish the sheepish
but hate those in need,
worship Fr Peter McVerry himself,
go ahead make him an icon
but don’t listen to what he’s saying
about anything.

Cherish the poor
for how you can use them
to frighten those
who are just one rung above
cherish the people
who learned early and often
what happens to those
with big mouths,
cherish your local TDs,
and the crowd in Listowel
who didn't care that he raped her
sure wasn't he one of their own?
Yea cherish the rapist,
why don't you?

Cherish the golf course
and its sprinklers
sure Irish Water will save us
cherish piece work and internships,
and zero hour contracts
aren't you lucky you have a job at all?
Do you not remember the coffin ships
and are you not grateful?
Yea cherish your own exploitation
cherish the school board,
for our lack of gay teachers,
cherish women's place in the home
then cut their allowances,
sure they don’t deserve them
having all of those children
repeat after me- Cherish Privatisation;
and if you don't then you better learn
to cherish the knock on your door
in Jobstown in the morning.
Consider this a warning.

Cherish Dev and Pearse
and blood sacrifice
but don't mention James Connolly
who said until Ireland's women are free
none of us will be, most of all though
cherish outsourcing and remember
your call is important,
you too will be cherished equally
if you can afford it
as soon as an operator
becomes available
which may well take
another hundred years.

Edgware

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I couldnt make it. A friend shared Sarah Clancys poem. So powerful

Terrible ****e. Looks like something plagiarised from Michael Ds early works

Peregrine

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

This was the largest audience to ever witness an mass in Ireland.

PERIOD!

No, it wasn't. Phoenix Park 1979 was.

Then Galway 1979.

This doesn't even come close. This was a massive flop. And they won't even beat this number again.

Hitman3000

chalkitdown1 wrote:

This was the largest audience to ever witness an mass in Ireland.

So you never heard about JP 2 rocking the mic in 79. Over a mill dude, Frank barely managed 130k.

chalkitdown1

FFS

Seanspicerinauguration.jpg

NIMAN

If those pictures are real, and taken at the time of the mass, rather than a few hours before or after, then I must admit that I am delighted too.

My faith has been restored in the Irish people. It can be seen that they planned X numbers of pens to hold X number of people, and the vast majority they were expecting couldn't be arsed to come.

Well done folks.

wexandproud

Edgware wrote: »

Terrible ****e. Looks like something plagiarised from Michael Ds early works

hard to imagine you could fit so much sh.te on one page

Dr Turk Turkelton

Edgware wrote: »

Terrible ****e. Looks like something plagiarised from Michael Ds early works

Yes,sh1t poem
Doesn't even rhyme
What a waste
Of my time

Mic drop

elefant

"I had never heard about those mothers, they called it the women's laundry, when an unmarried woman got pregnant, she went to the hospital or school, and the sisters ran those, and then they gave the child away for adoption to people."

From the Pope, on board his plane out of Ireland, as per RTE news.

WTF?

Discodog

elefant wrote: »

From the Pope, on board his plane out of Ireland, as per RTE news.

WTF?

I posted earlier that he was either ignorant, misinformed or a liar. He's a liar.

ELM327

elefant wrote: »

From the Pope, on board his plane out of Ireland, as per RTE news.

WTF?

Deny Deny Deny
Cover up Cover up Cover up


The church continues its everpresent method of dealing with anything.


Scum, the lot of them, including the 120,000 people in attendance

Leroy42

Or maybe Ireland just isn't particularly relevant to the CC. Do you really think the Pope has given one minute thinking to Ireland before he was informed that the WMoF was taking place here?

We are just 5m people, in a country rapidly moving away from the CC. They had a good run here, but it is akin to the cigarette companies. Sure they will continue to sell here, but no point getting too worried about a declining market.

As other posters have said, FF gave the CC immunity (pretty much) on child abuse claims so there really is no need to spend too much time on it.

As I was watching the RTE discussion last night, and a few things struck me.

Ursula Halligan was going out about the CC not represented her and others in the LGBT community. Whilst I agree with her sentiment, I fail to understand why she even considers herself a catholic when the rules of the club have always stated that they don't want her. (this is nothing personal about Ursula but a more general point).

She stated that the CC doesn't represent her, ok, so I understand that that is hurtful but why continue to support it? Why continue to go to mass and listen to the sermons? Go find a religion that does represent you.

The CC know that they have, or at least had, a captive audience. That they could do almost whatever they liked and people were tied into the CC for life. The point being that the person has changed, or rather they lack of ability to simply accept, whilst the CC has largely stayed the same.

Edward M

Irish Kings wrote: »

Why would a "Catholic" not want to pray and go to mass ?, what you actually mean is you have some sort of cultural catholic background, that's not what the census is asking though.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsed_Catholic

ELM327

Leroy42 wrote: »

Or maybe Ireland just isn't particularly relevant to the CC. Do you really think the Pope has given one minute thinking to Ireland before he was informed that the WMoF was taking place here?

We are just 5m people, in a country rapidly moving away from the CC. They had a good run here, but it is akin to the cigarette companies. Sure they will continue to sell here, but no point getting too worried about a declining market.

As other posters have said, FF gave the CC immunity (pretty much) on child abuse claims so there really is no need to spend too much time on it.

.
...
The CC know that they have, or at least had, a captive audience. That they could do almost whatever they liked and people were tied into the CC for life. The point being that the person has changed, or rather they lack of ability to simply accept, whilst the CC has largely stayed the same.

Were you listening to Newstalk this morning? Because they pretty much said exactly this, and that the RCC should now focus on emerging markets in LATAM and Africa. I agree, as the western world has gotten wise to their ways and the only way to keep the organisation going is to prey on the lesser well off areas of the world. Like Ireland used to be.

All My Stars Aligned

ELM327 wrote: »

Were you listening to Newstalk this morning? Because they pretty much said exactly this, and that the RCC should now focus on emerging markets in LATAM and Africa. I agree, as the western world has gotten wise to their ways and the only way to keep the organisation going is to prey on the lesser well off areas of the world. Like Ireland used to be.

And I'm am fairly certain that in 20 years or so we will be hearing about the very same types of abuse in those countries that went on here. Very sad.

Mr. CooL ICE

ELM327 wrote: »

Deny Deny Deny
Cover up Cover up Cover up


The church continues its everpresent method of dealing with anything.


Scum, the lot of them, including the 120,000 people in attendance

Mod: Blanket insulting large swathes of people is not on. Don't do it again.

B0jangles

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It was a wonderful event but I did find it extremely saddening at the same time. The way people were treated and abused is just wrong and should never have happened.

That's how I felt too -just feeling that maybe a large proportion of the crowd gathered at the Garden of Remembrance had been abused themselves was very powerful. I hope they got some hope that people are genuinely willing to stand with them now, and listen to what they have to say.

ELM327

Dole Scrounging Vegan Crossfitter wrote: »

Mod: Blanket insulting large swathes of people is not on. Don't do it again.

Apologies.I'm just rather annoyed at those who can support such an organisation given that the head of it can continue to lie, from the lies about the mother and baby homes, to the fact a known paedophile cover up priest was in the cavalcade directly behind the pope yesterday.


What I was trying to say was that the RCC organisation is corrupt and they derive validation from the numbers who tick boxes or attend events.

Perhaps I could/should have worded my initial post a little clearer. Mea Culpa.

Sleeper12

ELM327 wrote: »

Apologies.I'm just rather annoyed at those who can support such an organisation given that the head of it can continue to lie, from the lies about the mother and baby homes, to the fact a known paedophile cover up priest was in the cavalcade directly behind the pope yesterday.


What I was trying to say was that the RCC organisation is corrupt and they derive validation from the numbers who tick boxes or attend events.

Perhaps I could/should have worded my initial post a little clearer. Mea Culpa.

I understand your frustration & annoyance & I'm probably on the same side as you but we must respect other peopls beliefs even if they differ to ours. I am angry with the church

matrim

It looks like the protest of buying tickets and not using them has completly backfired. It has just given some people a handy scapegoat for the low attendance yesterday.

Sleeper12

matrim wrote: »

It looks like the protest of buying tickets and not using them has completly backfired. It has just given some people a handy scapegoat for the low attendance yesterday.

Tons of tickets being given away online. Many people decided to apply in their family names several times thinking that they had a better chance of getting tickets. They then ended up with dozens more than needed. These ended up on come & take me for free sites & groups, DoneDeal, Adverts & Boards all for free. I saw these still available Saturday night.


Don't let anyone tell you that it was the protester. Anyone that wanted to go could have gone. Anyone that wanted to go went. People just didn't want to go