Should we protest against the pope's visit?

Hitman3000

Banterbus28 wrote:

Sure you'd likely think it's wrong for someone to protest outside a mosque or synagogue.

No if there is a reason to protest I see no problem with a protest outside a Mosque/Synagogue. No issue at all. Personally I think all religion is bollix but I'm happy to let them do what this wish once no harm is caused or a belief is used as justification to cause harm.

Banterbus28

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote:

Sure you'd likely think it's wrong for someone to protest outside a mosque or synagogue.

No if there is a reason to protest I see no problem with a protest outside a Mosque/Synagogue. No issue at all. Personally I think all religion is bollix but I'm happy to let them do what this wish once no harm is caused or a belief is used as justification to cause harm.

Why not live and let live and do other things to fight the worlds injustice?

Protesting some blokes visit isn't gonna do much. It'll be a fleeting visit.

Hitman3000

Banterbus28 wrote:

Protesting some blokes visit isn't gonna do much. It'll be a fleeting visit.

I don't require your permission or opinion whether i should protest or not. Thanks.

martyc5674

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Why not live and let live and do other things to fight the worlds injustice?

It’s the very injustices of his org that people are likely to protest... most of the worlds injustices can be linked back to religious groups and the divides they have created.

Graces7

RobertKK wrote: »

People can protest without denying others attending the events.

Indeed they COULD. Instead of what is a sneaky way.

So OK you want to protest? And yes that is your "right":

So be open. Get a ticket, get there early in the very front and stand up and protest in the very face of the Pope. Give out publically and openly

Graces7

martyc5674 wrote: »

It’s the very injustices of his org that people are likely to protest... most if the worlds injustices can be linked back to religious groups and the fivides they have created.

Hitler?

Banterbus28

Graces7 wrote: »

martyc5674 wrote: »

It’s the very injustices of his org that people are likely to protest... most if the worlds injustices can be linked back to religious groups and the fivides they have created.

Hitler?

Communism killed more people than the Third Reich and any single religious group.

take everything

I'd love if the pope turned around and said "Go **** yourselves, Ireland. I'm not coming until ye do something about your annoying ****wit problem. I'm looking at you Madigan."

Or something like that. He'd go up in my in my estimation.

hatrickpatrick

Graces7 wrote: »

Hitler?

A lot (not all, but a lot) of anti-semitism had its roots in "Christ killing feckers" sentiment from Christian groups over the centuries. So you could argue that actually religion was indeed a factor in the holocaust, though obviously not the only one.

In fact, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the "Jews are interest-charging money grubbers" thing stem from the fact that Christians were religiously forbidden from practicing usury, so it meant that Jews were one of the only demographics who were allowed to go into banking?

Chaos Tourist

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Communism killed more people than the Third Reich and any single religious group.

Maybe -- the British Empire is up there as well, seriously.

Author Shashi Tharoor claims Britain is responsible for deaths of 35 million Indians.:eek:

Banterbus28

Chaos Tourist wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Communism killed more people than the Third Reich and any single religious group.

Maybe -- the British Empire is up there as well, seriously.

Author Shashi Tharoor claims Britain is responsible for deaths of 35 million Indians.:eek:

That's still a drop in the pond compared to the communist murder toll, Mao killed sooo many folk. But back on topic.

martyc5674

Graces7 wrote: »

Hitler?

Ah sure it’s ok then... yere not the worst

Chaos Tourist

Banterbus28 wrote: »

That's still a drop in the pond compared to the communist murder toll, Mao killed sooo many folk. But back on topic.

Yes - but that's just from one country. The overall numbers would be much, much higher going over 150-200 years. Indeed, it could even be greater than Communism.

s7ryf3925pivug

Chaos Tourist wrote: »

Yes - but that's just from one country. The overall numbers would be much, much higher going over 150-200 years. Indeed, it could even be greater than Communism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

Probably about 100 million.

s7ryf3925pivug

Zealotry of one form or another - not necessarily religious... The belief that a higher cause supersedes conventional morality. That’s what’s behind the biggest mass killings.

Getting off the point a bit. The catholic church wrought horrors upon us and they ignore the billions in compensation they owe their victims here. It’s abhorrent that we foot the bill for their leader to come and speak as some sort of moral authority. Absolutely outrageous.

Donald Trump

Wombatman wrote: »

If you can't understand why some people detest, and might want to protest the leader of this malignant cult you are out of touch with reality. Couching it as some sort of irrational prejudice is totally disingenuous.

I'd be surprised if people didn't protest, considering the amount of deep misery, hurt and pain this organisation has inflicted on some.

- Vile physical, psychological and sexual child abuse
- Covering up and knowingly exposing others to dangerous predators
- Mother and baby prisons
- Pits full of babies
- Anti contraception
- Anti abortion
- Anti gay rights
- Basically anti women
- Anti any kind of proper sex education
- Anti any progressive social change really
- Selling babies
- Destroying evidence and intimidating witnesses
- Shaming and repressing from the pulpit
- Dragging feet on reparations
- Victim blaming

The desire to protest is perfectly in line with human nature in the face of this organisation's track record.

As I said. You'll justify your hatred of people and dress it up however you want.


Basically just reeling off a list of boilerplate stuff that you don't give a shite about except that the they are useful as an excuse for you. Just handy excuses


Go read a few of Paisley's speeches for inspiration

Donald Trump

Taytoland wrote: »

Martin Luther warned you about the papists and only now are we seeing these responses.

Are sure look.



The only reason the Brits are Prods is that one of their divine rulers couldn't get his lad up :pac: . Not some collective sudden epiphany by the masses.



(no puns intended on the uses of either "epiphany" or "masses". Well maybe a little bit)

Banterbus28

Donald Trump wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

Martin Luther warned you about the papists and only now are we seeing these responses.

Are sure look.



The only reason the Brits are Prods is that one of their divine rulers couldn't get his lad up :pac: . Not some collective sudden epiphany by the masses.



(no puns intended on the uses of either "epiphany" or "masses". Well maybe a little bit)

Well that's sweepimg generalisation but no the topic of conversation.

Basically it boils down to Henry VIII liked money.

Donald Trump

Mary Thoughtless Yo-yo wrote: »

Zealotry of one form or another - not necessarily religious... The belief that a higher cause supersedes conventional morality. That’s what’s behind the biggest mass killings.

Getting off the point a bit. The catholic church wrought horrors upon us and they ignore the billions in compensation they owe their victims here. It’s abhorrent that we foot the bill for their leader to come and speak as some sort of moral authority. Absolutely outrageous.

A quote from a fella on the "side" of a lot of the intolerant people here. But he digressed onto the subject of morality

When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one's feet. This morality is by no means self-evident... By breaking one main concept out of Christianity, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one's hands."

Leroy42

How can you read a list like that and claim it is simply boilerplate issues.

Have you ever known anyone that was subjected to rape. The devastation that it reeks on their life. Now couple that with it being done to a child, so you have not only the impact but the fact that the child has no ability to deal with it.

Then take that, and force that child to continue to face the person who raped them, possibly even forcing them into repeated rapes. And the only 'solution' that the CC came up with when faced with evidence was to first try to silence the child, but if the potential damage could not be contained then moving the perpetrator to another parish, with no warning as to the danger they brought with them. In many cases the priest was allowed take an active role dealing with children again.

So the child struggles through a broken childhood and maybe with the help of friends etc decides to publicise their story in order to get some resolution. The 1st response by the CC is to attack the person (when they know full well they are telling the truth). So to state, the telling the truth should be something a religious person is in favour of.

How is the CC not anti-women. It implicitly states that women cannot serve as messengers of the lord, ie priests. So straight off the bat you have an organisation that is institutionally misogynistic, completely against the laws of the state but somehow we need to allow it because they believe in something (that something never mentioned women being inferior).

But it probably just a phase. I think it is very healthy that we invite that type of organisation into our schools to help inform our kids about morals! The fact that you given up any idea of empathy for the sake of your religion, a religion founded on the ideas of a man who preached empathy and caring and loving one another and tearing down temples that didn't live to Gods idea is staggering.

Donald Trump

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Well that's sweepimg generalisation but no the topic of conversation.

Basically it boils down to Henry VIII liked money.

Well lets be thankful for their sakes at least that, when he was looking to convert his populace into another religion on his own whims (broken mickey and lust for money), that flying spaghetti monsterism wasn't around



:pac:

TomOnBoard

Should we allow a protest? Absolutely!
Should we protest? If you like!
Will I protest? Absolutely not!
Should tickets for one of the Papal performances be acquired then burned to ensure no one gets to use them? Absolutely not!
Will I go see his performance? Not if he was doing it in the neighbours front garden across the road!

Donald Trump

Leroy42 wrote: »

How can you read a list like that and claim it is simply boilerplate issues.

Have you ever known anyone that was subjected to rape. The devastation that it reeks on their life. Now couple that with it being done to a child, so you have not only the impact but the fact that the child has no ability to deal with it.

Then take that, and force that child to continue to face the person who raped them, possibly even forcing them into repeated rapes. And the only 'solution' that the CC came up with when faced with evidence was to first try to silence the child, but if the potential damage could not be contained then moving the perpetrator to another parish, with no warning as to the danger they brought with them. In many cases the priest was allowed take an active role dealing with children again.

So the child struggles through a broken childhood and maybe with the help of friends etc decides to publicise their story in order to get some resolution. The 1st response by the CC is to attack the person (when they know full well they are telling the truth). So to state, the telling the truth should be something a religious person is in favour of.

How is the CC not anti-women. It implicitly states that women cannot serve as messengers of the lord, ie priests. So straight off the bat you have an organisation that is institutionally misogynistic, completely against the laws of the state but somehow we need to allow it because they believe in something (that something never mentioned women being inferior).

But it probably just a phase. I think it is very healthy that we invite that type of organisation into our schools to help inform our kids about morals! The fact that you given up any idea of empathy for the sake of your religion, a religion founded on the ideas of a man who preached empathy and caring and loving one another and tearing down temples that didn't live to Gods idea is staggering.

You take all the evidence that you have and bring it to your local Garda station. Then if they do not follow up, bring it to higher up. At that stage, the guards are also at fault. As are all the people who knew whatever went on and did nothing.


If you want to go on and on about things that happened 50 or 100 years ago, change the tune.



Boilerplate tosh used to give self righteous outrage justification by intolerant lazy bigots

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Should we allow a protest? Absolutely!
Should we protest? If you like!
Will I protest? Absolutely not!
Should tickets for one of the Papal performances be acquired then burned to ensure no one gets to use them? Absolutely not!
Will I go see his performance? Not if he was doing it in the neighbours front garden across the road!

If there was a nice laser show promised, I would, but only if it was free.

AudreyHepburn

How about we just live and let live? If you don’t want anything to do with the Popes’ vist OP that fine. But don’t presume to tell the rest of us how to feel.

Banterbus28

Donald Trump wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Well that's sweepimg generalisation but no the topic of conversation.

Basically it boils down to Henry VIII liked money.

Well lets be thankful for their sakes at least that, when he was looking to convert his populace into another religion on his own whims (broken mickey and lust for money), that flying spaghetti monsterism wasn't around



:pac:

Like I said boils down.

Ot's actually very complex.

Leroy42

Donald Trump wrote: »

You take all the evidence that you have and bring it to your local Garda station. Then if they do not follow up, bring it to higher up. At that stage, the guards are also at fault. As are all the people who knew whatever went on and did nothing.

Yeah. loads of people all ready did all of that. It's just a real shame that even after there is clear evidence collected by the Garda that the CC then try to claim that Canon law superceeds Irish law and pull out every trick to avoid the priests getting in trouble. Are they doing this out of a respect for the victim? No, they are protecting the firm, simple as.

You are of course correct that others share part of the blame, but the problem with selling your organisation as the very fountain of morality is that you class yourself as something special. Thus you really should look to abide to that.

Donald Trump wrote: »

If you want to go on and on about things that happened 50 or 100 years ago, change the tune.

So women can be priests now can they? Must have missed that news. When did that happen?

can you give a reason why the CC should be exempt from the laws of the land in terms of equality?

In 2008 the Health Service Executive had required a child safety audit which the Bishops felt unable to co-operate with for legal reasons, and in 2009 they asked the NBSC to perform this role. In its report on 2010–11 (to the end of March 2011) the NBSC complained that it had also been denied the same information, also for legal reasons, and that Church funding for its training programmes in child protection had ended in 2009. The 2010–11 report listed 272 new allegations of abuse, mainly "of a historical nature", up from 197 allegations in its 2009–10 report.

Hardly 100 years ago!

Do you really think Jesus would have stood for any of this? That is the man that your religion is supposedly built around. Its not the organisation you should be trying to protect, its the ideals of Jesus

martyc5674

Leroy42 wrote: »

How can you read a list like that and claim it is simply boilerplate issues.

.

Well the Catholic Church have been doing it for years

RobAMerc

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

yeah, let's protest against freedom of expression and freedom of religion. That'll show the rest of the world how modern and toletant we are...

Seriously, so you are happy to ignore the fact the Catholic church literally raped and pillaged across this county for 2000 years odd?

Ah sure yea, "I am so cool I will let the leader of this gang come tell us what his vision of a family is etc etc ....."
"I love freedom of speech so let him come here and spout whatever vile tripe he wants to" - like fook he can. We should all be on the streets protesting his arrival till he tells his gang to stop trying to innfluence our society, pay what he owes and says sorry.

WinnyThePoo

Donald Trump wrote: »

As I said. You'll justify your hatred of people and dress it up however you want.


Basically just reeling off a list of boilerplate stuff that you don't give a shite about except that the they are useful as an excuse for you. Just handy excuses


Go read a few of Paisley's speeches for inspiration

I think you've embarrassed yourself enough. Perhaps an early night. Your hysterics aren't getting you anywhere.

Donald Trump

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

I think you've embarrassed yourself enough. Perhaps an early night. Your hysterics aren't getting you anywhere.

L O fucking L :pac:

WinnyThePoo

Donald Trump wrote: »

L O fucking L :pac:

Whilst you dismiss the severity of child abuse. A lot people don't. They don't accept people under the coat of authority putting their penises in children. They don't accept their superiors covering it up.

Donald Trump

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah. loads of people all ready did all of that. It's just a real shame that even after there is clear evidence collected by the Garda that the CC then try to claim that Canon law superceeds Irish law and pull out every trick to avoid the priests getting in trouble. Are they doing this out of a respect for the victim? No, they are protecting the firm, simple as.

Hold on - someone does a criminal act and then says "ah we have our own rules, so you can't touch us - and nothing is done because of this and you blame them? That's just stupid. What you are saying is ludicrous. Freeman of the land crap

Leroy42 wrote: »

You are of course correct that others share part of the blame, but the problem with selling your organisation as the very fountain of morality is that you class yourself as something special. Thus you really should look to abide to that.

I don't have any organization. Not selling anything

Leroy42 wrote: »

So women can be priests now can they? Must have missed that news. When did that happen?

I don't know and I could not give a shite either way. But is that really your issue? You're just spouting any random fact that you can position as negative. If there were women priests tomorrow, you wouldn't give a shite. I don't care if Jews don't let cats into their synagogues on a Thursday. Do they? I don't know and I don't care. Wasn't Sinead O'Connor ordained at one stage? Happy now? :pac:

Leroy42 wrote: »

can you give a reason why the CC should be exempt from the laws of the land in terms of equality?

Are will ya give over.

Leroy42 wrote: »

In 2008 the Health Service Executive had required a child safety audit which the Bishops felt unable to co-operate with for legal reasons, and in 2009 they asked the NBSC to perform this role. In its report on 2010–11 (to the end of March 2011) the NBSC complained that it had also been denied the same information, also for legal reasons, and that Church funding for its training programmes in child protection had ended in 2009. The 2010–11 report listed 272 new allegations of abuse, mainly "of a historical nature", up from 197 allegations in its 2009–10 report.

Hardly 100 years ago!

Yeah. Whatever dude. Bring your evidence to the guards and get them to sort it. Tell them not to allow the priests to pull the freeman "oaths" crap and they'll get it sorted.

Leroy42 wrote: »

Do you really think Jesus would have stood for any of this? That is the man that your religion is supposedly built around. Its not the organisation you should be trying to protect, its the ideals of Jesus

I don't know. Do you care about Jesus? I don't really care. I'm not exactly the religious type.

Donald Trump

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Whilst you dismiss the severity of child abuse. A lot people don't. They don't accept people under the coat of authority putting their penises in children. They don't accept their superiors covering it up.

It's past your bedtime :pac:

Donald Trump

RobAMerc wrote: »

Seriously, so you are happy to ignore the fact the Catholic church literally raped and pillaged across this county for 2000 years odd?

Ah sure yea, "I am so cool I will let the leader of this gang come tell us what his vision of a family is etc etc ....."
"I love freedom of speech so let him come here and spout whatever vile tripe he wants to" - like fook he can. We should all be on the streets protesting his arrival till he tells his gang to stop trying to innfluence our society, pay what he owes and says sorry.

Ah sure look. All the priests in my parish still go out of a Saturday night for an oul' raping session. divil's so they are.





Time travelling divils too to have been doing it for the last 2000 years.

Taytoland

No one thought the Papacy would be rejected in Ireland like we see today on this forum, a sense of great fulfillment with a tinge of sadness due to the loss of traditions too.

Donald Trump

Taytoland wrote: »

No one thought the Papacy would be rejected in Ireland like we see today on this forum, a sense of great fulfillment with a tinge of sadness due to the loss of traditions too.

Ah sure it's only a few self-important saps. Neither here nor there in the big scheme of things. Let them do what they want

RobAMerc

Taytoland wrote: »

No one thought the Papacy would be rejected in Ireland like we see today on this forum, a sense of great fulfillment with a tinge of sadness due to the loss of traditions too.

I agree to some extent, but don't lament the rejection, despair the actions of the church that brought us here.

Fighting Tao

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

How about we just live and let live? If you don’t want anything to do with the Popes’ vist OP that fine. But don’t presume to tell the rest of us how to feel.

I find that a bit weird. Taxpayer money is being spent on his visit. Quite a lot of it! So those of us they don’t want anything to do with it have something to do with it against our will.

Taytoland

RobAMerc wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

No one thought the Papacy would be rejected in Ireland like we see today on this forum, a sense of great fulfillment with a tinge of sadness due to the loss of traditions too.

I agree to some extent, but don't lament the rejection, despair the actions of the church that brought us here.

So what is going to replace it? You won't have many Catholics left in 20 years time.

Donald Trump

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I find that a bit weird. Taxpayer money is being spent on his visit. Quite a lot of it! So those of us they don’t want anything to do with it have something to do with it against our will.

ah will ya ever give over.


You're not that important that your individual permission needs to be granted for any public event.


There'll be lots of people there. It'll be a big occasion. No harm done.


If they want to give a homecoming for the next time the Irish Soccerball team come last at some tournament, let them fire ahead. I just won't turn up but let whoever wants to do it fire away.

Fighting Tao

Donald Trump wrote: »

ah will ya ever give over.


You're not that important that your individual permission needs to be granted for any public event.


There'll be lots of people there. It'll be a big occasion. No harm done.


If they want to give a homecoming for the next time the Irish Soccerball team come last at some tournament, let them fire ahead. I just won't turn up but let whoever wants to do it fire away.

Not going to engage with you again and you know why.

Donald Trump

Taytoland wrote: »

So what is going to replace it? You won't have many Catholics left in 20 years time.

Sure what would the Nordies do then?




The prods would have nothing to protest or march against or burn


Life would lose all meaning for them



They'd need to start attacking the muslims or the jews or something. Maybe we could send them over to the middle east on tours

Donald Trump

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Not going to engage with you again and you know why.

Give me your cost-benefit analysis and a comparison with other similar events to justify your stance.


If you don't have it then that "public money" argument can feck off :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

RobAMerc wrote: »

Seriously, so you are happy to ignore the fact the Catholic church literally raped and pillaged across this county for 2000 years odd?

Well aware of what they did, thank you very much, but I tend to separate judgement of a person and judgement of an act. Especially when the person visiting didn't commit these crimes (to the best of current knowledge). I'm just pointing out that not everyone on the island feels the same way and you don't have the right to speak for everyone on said island.

You want to protest? Fine. You have that right.
You want to demand something that you personally want irresepctive of what other people may or may not want? Not fine. You don't have that right.

I've deleted the last two paragraphs as it's just rambling ad hominem not worthy of response. Deal with the content of the post and the opinion expressed therein, instead of assuming bull**** about a person you don't know.

martyc5674

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well aware of what they did, thank you very much, but I tend to separate judgement of a person and judgement of an act. .

This is where you’re going wrong, there is a person behind every act. And in the CCs case a lot of victims too.
Victims who have been ushered from society, oppressed when they talked, by our unquestionable, above the law, moral leaders.

Donald Trump

martyc5674 wrote: »

This is where you’re going wrong, there is a person behind every act. And in the CCs case a lot of victims too.
Victims who have been ushered from society, oppressed when they talked, by our unquestionable, above the law, moral leaders.

G'way with your hyperbole.




Nobody is above the law.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

martyc5674 wrote: »

This is where you’re going wrong, there is a person behind every act. And in the CCs case a lot of victims too.
Victims who have been ushered from society, oppressed when they talked, by our unquestionable, above the law, moral leaders.

Doesn't really counter what I posted.

Taytoland

Donald Trump wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

So what is going to replace it? You won't have many Catholics left in 20 years time.

Sure what would the Nordies do then?




The prods would have nothing to protest or march against or burn


Life would lose all meaning for them



They'd need to start attacking the muslims or the jews or something. Maybe we could send them over to the middle east on tours

Less papacy isn't the worst thing in Ulster.

work

martyc5674 wrote: »

You see, I believe there should be no such thing as Muslim schools, as RC schools etc etc... by doing so you are excluding others. And this is what the CC have quite effectively done. Labelling a school by its religion is sheer exclusiveness..., right at the front gate.
There should just be schools, where all are welcome, but that doesn’t suit the CCs agenda so they are slow to let go.
They want forced baptism to keep their numbers up... there is so much wrong with this on many levels and too many people subscribe to this nonsense even though they are non believers.

nail on the head schools should be inclusive and excluding baseless religeon should be supported on ones own time and finances.