Recommend alternative to Triton T90sr and Mira QT elite showers?

Sleeper12

Damoedge wrote:

Where can I buy it?

The best pumped electric shower on the market is the triton t90sr by a country mile. I would replace the faulty t90sr with a fully functioning triton t90sr. That's my advice.

If your plumber supplied & fitted the shower then it's his problem and he would have to replace the shower free of charge. I always point this out to people saying that they can source materials cheaper. If tradesmen supply then they are responsible for the whole job. If you supply then they are only responsible for their own work and not the product.

Any trade counter can order in the triton t900pi. I usually buy mine from the shower centre on the Malahide road. They have a website. They will post one to you.

Damoedge

John.G wrote: »

It should have been pulling around 38 amps then. If it was only running initially on one element then it would be about 20 amps.

OK then, I assume the removed unit will be returned to Triton? Before doing so can you or your electrician friend just test the heating can resistances,
before returning it, they should be 11 ohms and 13 ohms.

Right just tested it there...
11.5
13.2

Damoedge

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If your plumber supplied & fitted the shower then it's his problem and he would have to replace the shower free of charge. I always point this out to people saying that they can source materials cheaper. If tradesmen supply then they are responsible for the whole job. If you supply then they are only responsible for their own work and not the product.

Any trade counter can order in the triton t900pi. I usually buy mine from the shower centre on the Malahide road. They have a website. They will post one to you.

I supplied the shower

John.G

Damoedge wrote: »

Right just tested it there...
11.5
13.2

That gives one element of 4.6 KW and the other of 4.0 KW, total of 8.6 KW, a bit shy of 9.0 KW but I suppose that could be element manufacturing tolerences or multitester error.
If you feel happy to do so would you be willing to test the voltage at the shower terminals with the power on high, pos ii on the dial. and with the temp dial at say 2 oclock with shower switched on?
http://dublinshowerrepair.com/uploads/3/3/0/8/3308713/triton_t90sr_user_manual.pdf

Damoedge

John.G wrote: »

That gives one element of 4.6 KW and the other of 4.0 KW, total of 8.6 KW, a bit shy of 9.0 KW but I suppose that could be element manufacturing tolerences or multitester error.
If you feel happy to do so would you be willing to test the voltage at the shower terminals with the power on high, pos ii on the dial. and with the temp dial at say 2 oclock with shower switched on?
http://dublinshowerrepair.com/uploads/3/3/0/8/3308713/triton_t90sr_user_manual.pdf

I did that also while testing resistance...

Shower off 238
Shower on 224

John.G

Damoedge wrote: »

I did that also while testing resistance...

Shower off 238
Shower on 224

OK Thanks, the only other suggestion I can make is to operate the power selector switch with the cover off.....I presume that if you have it fully to the left and have the locking/commissioning locking screw holes lined up that it is "Off" then there possibly should be two further clicks when turned clockwise to ensure its in the full power position?...I really cant think of anything else.

Damoedge

John.G wrote: »

OK Thanks, the only other suggestion I can make is to operate the power selector switch with the cover off.....I presume that if you have it fully to the left and have the locking/commissioning locking screw holes lined up that it is "Off" then there possibly should be two further clicks when turned clockwise to ensure its in the full power position?...I really cant think of anything else.

I don't get ya on this one.....??

Wearb

Damoedge wrote: »

I did that also while testing resistance...

Shower off 238
Shower on 224

A14V drop on a 3 metre run of 10mm seems excessive to me. Perhaps some electrician would comment here?

John.G

Damoedge wrote: »

I don't get ya on this one.....??

I'm trying to make sure that High power is actually selected you might feel/hear two distinct clicks when going from cold to pos ii ?,

Damoedge

John.G wrote: »

I'm trying to make sure that High power is actually selected you might feel/hear two distinct clicks when going from cold to pos ii ?,

Yes I do with the cover on...and during testing with the cover off it's the same...but..it feels like that knob could go another turn...I didn't try it but I did put a little pressure on it and it felt like it would turn again...like from position ii to position iii...but there is no iii...I didn't turn it in case something snapped....

John.G

Wearb wrote: »

A14V drop on a 3 metre run of 10mm seems excessive to me. Perhaps some electrician would comment here?

I think maybe 0.00158 ohms/meter for 10 MM2 so a 3 meter run should be a total resistance of 3*2*0.00158 = 0.00948 ohms?
the element resistances were 11.5 & 13.2ohms = 6.146 ohms in parallel so the total circuit resistance is 6.146+0.00948 = 6.15548 ohms. the fuse board volts are 238V so current flow is 238V/6.15548 = 38.66 amps and the cable volt drop = 38.66*0.00948 = 0.366 volt? seems very low.

However the voltage should be taken at both the fuse board and at the shower terminals with the shower On before jumping to any conclusions. Damoedge might do this, it will be very interesting.
Even if my calc above is incorrect, I cant imagine any more than 1 or 2 volt drop in this cable

A 14V drop, if true would indicate a very serious problem along the way or at some connection but lets see what the readings are.

Sleeper12

John.G wrote:

A 14V drop, if true would indicate a very serious problem along the way or at some connection but lets see what the readings are.

The resistance reading from the elements suggests to me that the shower is in good working order and the fault is elsewhere

John.G

Damoedge wrote: »

Yes I do with the cover on...and during testing with the cover off it's the same...but..it feels like that knob could go another turn...I didn't try it but I did put a little pressure on it and it felt like it would turn again...like from position ii to position iii...but there is no iii...I didn't turn it in case something snapped....

If you go to page 10 of the link above I sent you, it will clarify it I think, you have to be happy the selector is in the correct position so that the water flow valve will push in both microswitch contacts.

On my shower (mira sport) you have Low Medium and High positions. when you switch from Low to Medium ther is a nice "click" when it finds its position and likewise in going from "Medium" to High"

Wearb

John.G wrote: »

I think maybe 0.00158 ohms/meter for 10 MM2 so a 3 meter run should be a total resistance of 3*2*0.00158 = 0.00948 ohms?
the element resistances were 11.5 & 13.2ohms = 6.146 ohms in parallel so the total circuit resistance is 6.146+0.00948 = 6.15548 ohms. the no load terminal volts are 238V so current flow is 238/6.15548 = 38.66 amps and the cable volt drop = 38.66*0.00948 = 0.36 volt? seems very low.

However the voltage shoild be taken at both the supply cable end and at the shower terminals with the shower On before jumping to any conclusions. Damoedge might do this, it will be very interesting.
Even if my calc above is incorrect, I cant imagine any more than 1 or 2 volt drop in this cable

A 14V drop, if true would indicate a very serious problem along the way or at some connection but lets see what the readings are.

That is producing quite a lot of heat somewhere and as we know that voltage drop will only get worse as the temperature increases resistance.

OP Do you have an IR thermometer that you could point around at the rcbo, isolation switch and random parts of the supply cable (don't hold it too far from the measuring point, or you will be measuring outside target area).

I also wonder if you have a large voltage drop in socket circuits when shower is running. That might indicate a problem with your mains supply and not limited to your shower supply.

Sleeper12

Wearb wrote:

That is producing quite a lot of heat somewhere and as we know that voltage drop will only get worse as the temperature increases resistance.

The old shower worked fine. I'm wondering if the plumber damaged the cable in the wall by drilling a new screw hole. This might explain the electrician testing everywhere and not find a problem

Wearb

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The old shower worked fine. I'm wondering if the plumber damaged the cable in the wall by drilling a new screw hole. This might explain the electrician testing everywhere and not find a problem

That voltage drop in itself isn't producing the results that the op is getting, but that drop could be increasing with time.

And yes, your observation that the old one worked well is worth keeping in mind and tends to rule out my latest line of thought, unless connections were disturbed, or (as you suggest) wire damage etc.

Damoedge

I took the voltage reading at the cables before going into the shower I also took readings around the terminal..they were all the same...I noticed that the voltage fluctuated a bit when the shower was running I'd say about 4/5 volts but when the shower was off it remained very steady at the terminals....the voltage I listed here was the highest fluctuation and I should have stated that when I was typing it...(was in a rush)

Also when taken the resistance that fluctuated a lot too before it would settle...I'm talking like nearly a minute to settle down....if that means anything I don't know...?

Again for the hundred time I'd say..I tested plug sockets nearest to the board and shower and sockets furthest away from the shower...there all reading around 238 volts....a few weeks ago I tested the shower cable going into the board itself and that was normal too.

When I said above I was rushing I was taking it down...well I have taken the shower down now lads...went up the attic turned off the water and she's off the wall now as it's been brought back tomorrow...I'm sick to me teeth with it!

At the end of the day...I don't care what anyone says about this or that or that and this....the way I see it is this way..................

A perfect working shower...the old one....and when I say perfect I mean this...2 elements on...temp knob at 1/2 o clock....which had great water pressure and prefect water temp at that setting to have a lovely shower in! Any higher we would have been scalded!....this shower had specs...9kw in bla bla bla......was replaced with another shower with the same specs...bla bla bla.....with absolutely no changes to wiring or electrics or plumbing! I mean you wouldn't say something if we put in a big dirty halogen flood light out the back of something....and this new shower...NEW ! ...better technology better bla bla bla....and it performs ****e!....it's that simple lads....well to me it is...the fault was with the new shower and that's that! I think the jug test which I was a bit shocked with myself proved that...

Anyways she is off the wall...fing thing was off the wall since day one...lol lol lol lol

Looks like I'll have to get the Mira because my parents don't want to go a day without the shower...feck sake like...lol

Wearb

Damoedge wrote: »

I took the voltage reading at the cables before going into the shower I also took readings around the terminal..they were all the same...I noticed that the voltage fluctuated a bit when the shower was running I'd say about 4/5 volts but when the shower was off it remained very steady at the terminals....the voltage I listed here was the highest fluctuation and I should have stated that when I was typing it...(was in a rush)

Also when taken the resistance that fluctuated a lot too before it would settle...I'm talking like nearly a minute to settle down....if that means anything I don't know...?

Again for the hundred time I'd say..I tested plug sockets nearest to the board and shower and sockets furthest away from the shower...there all reading around 238 volts....a few weeks ago I tested the shower cable going into the board itself and that was normal too.

When I said above I was rushing I was taking it down...well I have taken the shower down now lads...went up the attic turned off the water and she's off the wall now as it's been brought back tomorrow...I'm sick to me teeth with it!

At the end of the day...I don't care what anyone says about this or that or that and this....the way I see it is this way..................

A perfect working shower...the old one....and when I say perfect I mean this...2 elements on...temp knob at 1/2 o clock....which had great water pressure and prefect water temp at that setting to have a lovely shower in! Any higher we would have been scalded!....this shower had specs...9kw in bla bla bla......was replaced with another shower with the same specs...bla bla bla.....with absolutely no changes to wiring or electrics or plumbing! I mean you wouldn't say something if we put in a big dirty halogen flood light out the back of something....and this new shower...NEW ! ...better technology better bla bla bla....and it performs ****e!....it's that simple lads....well to me it is...the fault was with the new shower and that's that! I think the jug test which I was a bit shocked with myself proved that...

Anyways she is off the wall...fing thing was off the wall since day one...lol lol lol lol

Looks like I'll have to get the Mira because my parents don't want to go a day without the shower...feck sake like...lol

We fair play to you for sticking with it for so long - 10 pages on my iPhone.
We have all learned from this thread and it will provide a good diognostic source for future readers.

Sleeper12

Here's my advice based on all the information you gave us. Get a REC in ASAP to test everything properly. The problem could be coming into the house as the triton engineer thought or it could be localised to the pull cord switch or the cable behind the shower. The plumber might have damaged it without knowing. This would explain why it only shows up after the installation. Something is not right and it doesn't seem to be the shower.

I wouldn't use the shower in the meantime. If you do change the shower I strongly suggest getting a REC to replace it as he will test everything correctly and issue you with a certificate. The plumber didn't test it when he installed it and it's unlikely he'll learn how in the meantime.

Sleeper12

Damoedge wrote:

I took the voltage reading at the cables before going into the shower I also took readings around the terminal..they were all the same...I noticed that the voltage fluctuated a bit when the shower was running I'd say about 4/5 volts but when the shower was off it remained very steady at the terminals....the voltage I listed here was the highest fluctuation and I should have stated that when I was typing it...(was in a rush)

You would need to take voltage readings at the meter & compare them to the voltage readings at the shower. Both sets of readings need to be done with the shower on full throttle. The readings won't be the same as each other. It's the difference in the two readings that are important

Damoedge

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Here's my advice based on all the information you gave us. Get a REC in ASAP to test everything properly. The problem could be coming into the house as the triton engineer thought or it could be localised to the pull cord switch or the cable behind the shower. The plumber might have damaged it without knowing. This would explain why it only shows up after the installation. Something is not right and it doesn't seem to be the shower.

I wouldn't use the shower in the meantime. If you do change the shower I strongly suggest getting a REC to replace it as he will test everything correctly and issue you with a certificate. The plumber didn't test it when he installed it and it's unlikely he'll learn how in the meantime.

As far as I know the plumber only had to make 2 new holes for the new shower and they were to the right of the cable hole and to be honest I don't think it was that...but I do get ya about a plumber testing everything in a new shower as they can't with the electrics....but fair play to him the plumber when he installed it he did notice that the water pressure was a little weak as he put it..."but see how ye get on with it and try it out"....feck did we get on with it alright....lol lol lol

Well I do hope that this thread will be helpful to someone...I gave all the information on here as accurately as I could and some based on memory too....

Thanks lads for all your input help and support on this....this is what it's all about and I know we didn't get to the root cause of it but hey that's life......sure we will wait until we install the new shower and I'll give an update here....that should be interesting

Thanks again y'all
D

John.G

Wearb wrote: »

That is producing quite a lot of heat somewhere and as we know that voltage drop will only get worse as the temperature increases resistance.

OP Do you have an IR thermometer that you could point around at the rcbo, isolation switch and random parts of the supply cable (don't hold it too far from the measuring point, or you will be measuring outside target area).

I also wonder if you have a large voltage drop in socket circuits when shower is running. That might indicate a problem with your mains supply and not limited to your shower supply.

Theoretically, with a 14V drop and a circuit load of 36.4 amps the resistance would be 0.385 ohms (14/36.4) and the heat (power) generated would be (36.4*36.4*0.385), 510 watts, a nice little heating element if dissipated over a very short length,

Sleeper12

Great teamwork this weekend.

Damoedge

John.G wrote: »

Theoretically, with a 14V drop and a circuit load of 36.4 amps the resistance would be 0.385 ohms (14/36.4) and the heat (power) generated would be (36.4*36.4*0.385), 510 watts, a nice little heating element if dissipated over a very short length,

That voltage drop/reading was at the highest temperature setting...and it fluctuated a lot and that was the highest fluctuation as far as I remember...but in all fairness a 9kw element going full blast...as the lad would say...she's gonna burn some volts like...lol...isn't that what volts do when you use a high drawing machine....they...drop ....

Damoedge

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Great teamwork this weekend.

I learned a few thingys anyways sleeper and thanks lads for that

John.G

Damoedge wrote: »

I learned a few thingys anyways sleeper and thanks lads for that

Its no wonder we couldnt figure out what as wrong with it!.

Damoedge

John.G wrote: »

Its no wonder we couldnt figure out what as wrong with it!.

Lol lol lol...nice one lol lol

Damoedge

Well lads and ladies I have big news for you...new shower installed....

John.G

Damoedge wrote: »

Well lads and ladies I have big news for you...new shower installed....

and??

Sleeper12

Damoedge wrote:

Well lads and ladies I have big news for you...new shower installed....

What shower did you go for in the end?

Damoedge

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What shower did you go for in the end?

Hi all,

I hadn't much choice as the parents did not want to get another Triton after what happened and they wanted one straight away...so...I had to get the Mira elite QT ! I know yea..there have been reports of it being problematic in all but I'm willing to take the chance but sure I had no choice really....but I have to say fair play to the main in the hardware store he said straight away that he had heard there was problems with it but they seemed to have ironed them out now...so fingers crossed we will have no problems...our old shower was a Mira and that lasted years 15 I think! And was still working before taking it down!

So our plumber installed the water works and our cousin an electrician wired her up...yea we did it right this time...lol lol...both of them said about the Triton that it must not be rating that it was stated to be...

When we first turned on the new Mira I knew straight away that it was working prefect...get this....temp knob at about 1 o clock and and power selector at ii and it is just Perfect ! Any higher on the temp knob and it will scald ya....the water pressure is great and last night I did the test.....

The test....1 min...3.1 liters ! That's some difference to 1. fing 9 ! I did the test 3 times and got the same result...even turning the shower head upside down and there's a great rise of water from the head! The real test was taking a shower in it of course....and it was lovely lads...I tell ya you notice the difference big time between a good shower and a crap one ! The parents are happy out too

I'll say again I have nothing against Triton at all...for me and my opinion is this...it was just a bad shower that got past quality control! Someone's fault somewhere along the line...but....my parents and I were just unhappy with the way they and their engineer handled the situation....the day the engineer came out if he had replaced it with another shower and it worked grand we would have been happy...but no he blamed the voltage in the house...I suppose thinking about that..what else could be blame if not the shower itself??? Voltage my a..

So lads...what do you all think of this now? Another new shower with the same rating and specs? Working as it should? Working perfect! ? Your thoughts will be interesting!

Thanks again for all your help and advice

A new happy Mira customer

John.G

"So our plumber installed the water works and our cousin an electrician wired her up...yea we did it right this time...lol lol...both of them said about the Triton that it must not be rating that it was stated to be..."

The rating IMO was fine, it just wasnt operating at full power, just on the one element I would think.

Sleeper12

Damoedge wrote:

A new happy Mira customer

On a positive note there are some mira elite qt showers that don't give any trouble. Fingers crossed you have one of them

SheroP

Hi there
Apologies if this is off topic
Looking for assustance with diagnosis of problem
Have a mira elite 2 approx 12 years old
Installed in holida home in wexford. Used infrequently and in hard water area though water softner fitted
Lately when turned on the temperature constantly fluctuates between v hot and v cold , dial down and low flow ligjt illuminated
Removed grit from filter and cleared shower head
Is unit goosed, replace, repair or service ??
Thanks in advance

Sleeper12

Clean the filter with an old tooth brush. I usually put my lips up tight to it & blow into it.


Check that the hose is clear. Sometimes the rubber inside the hose can perish & cause a blockage.

Take the shower head off & run the shower without the shower head. If you can regulate the temperature then the issue is with the shower head.

If none of the above works and assuming you have adequate water entering the shower then you are most likely looking at replacing the shower. A new motor costs around 130 plus installation. A new flow control valve is close to 100 plus installation. A new element is over 100 plus installation.

The only part worth replacing is the brushes in the motor. I'm assuming that it isn't the brushes as I wouldn't think the shower would have had enough use over the years as it's a holiday home.

SheroP

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Clean the filter with an old tooth brush. I usually put my lips up tight to it & blow into it.


Check that the hose is clear. Sometimes the rubber inside the hose can perish & cause a blockage.

Take the shower head off & run the shower without the shower head. If you can regulate the temperature then the issue is with the shower head.

If none of the above works and assuming you have adequate water entering the shower then you are most likely looking at replacing the shower. A new motor costs around 130 plus installation. A new flow control valve is close to 100 plus installation. A new element is over 100 plus installation.

The only part worth replacing is the brushes in the motor. I'm assuming that it isn't the brushes as I wouldn't think the shower would have had enough use over the years as it's a holiday home.

That’s great
Thanks for advice
I’ll go through the steps again
I’ll let you know how I get on

margoth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/106725245#Comment_106725245

This info re Triton models is really useful, as I've been checking out this thread & others in an attempt to decide what to do about replacing a Mira EliteQT 9.8kW, which is needing repair after 2yrs 5mths. I'm really interested in positive reviews & comments about the Triton T90SR, but I'm in Cardiff & wondered if you could advise re my best option over here / re possible advantages of going for either of these 2 showers as an alternative, i.e. the only Triton electric shower models that Triton UK say their engineers can supply & fit here (for gravity fed system in low water pressure area):

T80si pumped https://www.tritonshowers.co.uk/showers-taps/electric-showers/t80si-pumped-electric-shower or Safeguard Care pumped https://www.tritonshowers.co.uk/showers-taps/electric-showers/safeguard-care-pumped-thermostatic-shower

I'm not prepared to pay £170 odd which is what repair to the Mira Elite would be (especially after reading threads about how bad this model is), but Mira have offered to supply & fit an EliteSE for £339

[I have found a UK supplier for delivery of a T90SR (as eg Woodies don't deliver outside of Ireland) ... but then I'm not confident of finding someone reliable to install, if it's not a familiar model to them]

I'm really keen to replace with a shower that's going to be reliable and last well, so not keen to go for the EliteSE ... hoping you can provide some advice, please

Sleeper12

The safeguard is really designed for nursing homes and hospitals. Anyone I've seen install one in their disabled bathroom ends up replacing it with a Triton t90sr when it breaks. Nothing wrong with this model but it's not cheap to repair.

The T90si is known as the T900pi here in Ireland. It's been on the market a long time. Doesn't have a silent motor but nothing wrong with the build quality.

The Triton T90sr silent shower is almost identical to the Triton T90xr that you have in the UK. Anyone able to install the t90xr will be able to install the T90sr. The problem is since Brexit no one wants the hassle of shipping to mainland UK.

margoth

I'll try to find someone to fit the T90SR as I think I've found one I can get delivered (Triton uk website tells me the xr is obsolete ... was that not a silent motor either?) ... is it likely to be a big job switching from Mira EliteQT? (wall behind sho)wer unit is completely tiled)

... I do wish those that voted leave would be honest enough to acknowledge the harm being done

Did you mean "The T90si T80si is known as the T900pi here in Ireland"

Yes, thanks for confirmation re safeguard ... I didn't think it was necessary ... thanks loads for the quick response

Sleeper12

Triton t80si is a confusing one our triton t80si shower in Ireland was a mains fed shower. Totally obsolete now. In the UK a Triton t80si is a pumped electric shower. It's portrait shaped like a mira. In Ireland they are called t900pi.

Mira elite qt plumbing & electrics are in the same area as the triton t90sr. It's a very simple replacement going from the mira to the triton. Less than 30 minutes work swapping the showers.

margoth

very frustrating ... looks like I'm gonna have to give up ideas of switching from the Mira Elite QT 9.8kW to the Triton T90sr 9kW

I've sourced a new T90sr for delivery but am struggling to find anyone reliable for installation (I don't think many are very familiar with fitting electric pumped showers around Cardiff🤔 ... maybe) ... anyone know someone local to me, by any faint chance ... or is there an equivalent discussion board over here?

I've tried to get Triton uk (who supply & install) to arrange fitting by one of their engineers and they've just confirmed (from the pics I sent after taking the Mira cover off, showing water & electric feed-in) that it would be straightforward to install ...

but that they can't do it, as the different kW rating (9.8 to 9) would require some change (??) to the electrical supply and therefore an engineer with part P registration, which their engineers don't have

tearing my hair out

Sleeper12

They are the exact same KW.

9.8KW at 240 volt in the UK = 9KW At 230 volt here in Ireland. Mira sell showers here & their 9.8KW is 9KW at 230 volt. Put a 9KW from Ireland rated at 230 volt into a home in the UK with 240 volt & it's a 9.8kw shower

A regular plumber should be able to install the T90SR in less than 30 minutes. Some electricians will install it too but not too many