Rounds limit

scwazrh

I've two .22lr rifles and each cert has a rounds limit of 1000. Does this mean I can have 2000 rounds at any one time or is it 1000?

Sparks

2000 in total.

Luckysasha

Had the same conversation with my local FO recently after a local gun dealer refused to combine my license totals. I have 2 x 22lr’s with 500 on each so naturally I thought I could buy 1000. Dealer told me that’s not the case anymore so got in touch with local FO and according to him the directive now is not to combine licenses. The licensing system is being overhauled To say something like you can only have for example 500 rounds of 22lr caliber ammunition per person rather than per license.

solarwinds

It is not the person that is licensed but the firearm. So each license is a seperate stand alone item. As it stands now you are entitled to 2000. Nothing to stop you walking out the door with one cert and 1000 rounds and walking straight back in again to buy another 1000 with a different cert.
Never heard of a dealer refusing business before.

Sparks

Luckysasha wrote: »

Had the same conversation with my local FO recently after a local gun dealer refused to combine my license totals. I have 2 x 22lr’s with 500 on each so naturally I thought I could buy 1000. Dealer told me that’s not the case anymore so got in touch with local FO and according to him the directive now is not to combine licenses. The licensing system is being overhauled To say something like you can only have for example 500 rounds of 22lr caliber ammunition per person rather than per license.

That's absolute nonsense. The cert is for the firearm, not the applicant. In this case, you have two certs for 500 rounds each; you might need to present both certs to the RFD but you most certainly can possess 1000 rounds.

Not to mention that "directives" to do things that aren't in the Act are acting in contempt of the supreme court finding in Dunne.

Also not to mention, a possible future overhaul of licencing (which we've not heard of yet) is not a change in the law as it is written today. And the kind of overhaul mentioned there is not a small change, it would be a fundamental change to the entire Act from the ground up.

It wouldn't be the worst change ever proposed, mind you, we've wanted to see the person licensed instead of the firearm for decades now, but you'd need a new Firearms Act to do it.

gunny123

Sparks wrote: »

Also not to mention, a possible future overhaul of licencing (which we've not heard of yet) is not a change in the law as it is written today. And the kind of overhaul mentioned there is not a small change, it would be a fundamental change to the entire Act from the ground up.

Our friends in the sc at it again ? Sticking in the poison behind the scenes ?

Luckysasha

No point jumping down my throat about it. Obviously there is talks in the background about overhauling the licensing side of things and dealers are hearing rumours and whispers putting two and two together and getting five. I can only speak for one dealers actions and base my conclusions on a chat with one FO. So if you could direct your anger away from me I would appreciate it

Sparks

Sorry LS, wasn't your throat I was jumping down, but the FO's.

Grizzly 45

There is NOTHING in the EU directive of last year about limiting the amount of ammo.In fact it is a total irrevelance in most EU countries as there are no limits on the amount of ammo you can have. Actually, the one good thing the directive of 199[?] gave us was that the minimum amount a firearm can have is 500 rounds.

scwazrh

so on the basis of it being per license I’ve another question.
One license has an ‘s’ on it the other doesn’t . Does this mean I can only use a silencer on the rifle with an s on its license and not both rifles ?

aaakev

You can only use it on the one with the s

g00167015

To all intents and purposes, your FO telling you the licencing system is being overhauled doesn't matter one bit.

AGS are bound by STATUTE (ie Acts and S.I.s of the Oireachtas plus relevant case law) in the way they are supposed to operate the firearms licencing regime. "Guidelines", "our Super always says this......", "overhauls", "letters from HQ on licencing" etc etc are most certainly NOT pieces of statute. Unfortunately, many AGS folks only become aware of this to their great embarrassment when a Judge tells them from the bench as he concludes proceedings for another firearms licencee who has been subjected to a refusal with no statutory basis.

If you have a thousand cartridges on one cert you are perfectly entitled to purchase a thousand for that firearm. You are also perfectly entitled to purchase a thousand for your other cert at the same time, the cert ENTITLES you to do so......., if it didn't, then it would not be written on the darn thing.

Hope this helps.........in other words, the FO in question must think he/she has magical powers to introduce their own bespoke pieces of statute. Unfortunately 2002-2-IR-533 from the Supreme Court, delivered by the learned Justice Keane et al (Murphy &McGuinness), says different........

solarwinds

If they are thinking of amending it,
proposing an overhaul or might be maybe down the line sure we don't know yet what we're doing possibly changing it.
We and others namely dealers and AGS have to abide by what we have in law at the minute.
What we have cannot be ignored for what might be.
Curious how this dealer seems to be aware of upcoming changes in round allowance when the dealers didn't know anything about being shafted on security. Is it selective leaking of information by some body or just simply confusion over combining allowances on licenses.

Grizzly 45

Easy to not know anything when you have a couple of talking heads sitting in a room running their jaws off to a minister claiming to represent a certain group and acting in their best interests with their consensus.And said group hasn't a clue they are being represented let alone their" best interests are being discussed.
One of the penalties I would say of "letting others look after all that stuff.Doesn't concern me"attitude with some .

Half-cocked

I'm trying to figure out the logic behind this. If I have two 12g shotguns licensed for 500 rounds each, I can only have 500 rounds in total under this latest BS? But if I have a 12g and a 20g licensed for 500 rounds each, I can still have 1,000 rounds in total?

The only reasoning I can think of is that having to buy smaller quantities of ammo removes the ability to save a few bob by bulk buying. The only people who would benefit from that are firearms dealers. Vested interests at work behind the scenes?

Benny mcc

My 223 license only has 25 rounds on it. How sad is that?

Gravelly

Benny mcc wrote: »

My 223 license only has 25 rounds on it. How sad is that?

Is that a misprint? Why would they only limit you to that!

Benny mcc

No. It was a substitute license for a gun that had only 25 on it. I asked for 200 but no go. Maybe because if it being a sub is why I only got 25.

Gravelly

Benny mcc wrote: »

No. It was a substitute license for a gun that had only 25 on it. I asked for 200 but no go. Maybe because if it being a sub is why I only got 25.

That must be bloody annoying.

Benny mcc

Gravelly wrote: »

That must be bloody annoying.

I'll get over it. At the cost of them I'll not need many. Use the 17 hmr more often and it's a 200 round license

Cass

A helpful tip on increasing round allowance. Write to the FO or Super if you must and say the following:

Re: Section 4.1 - I request the maximum rounds of ammunition on my license be increased to (insert amount) for the following reasons:

1. Empty (fired) casings are treated the same as live rounds as per the Firearms Act, 1925 where it states that "ammunition for a firearm is any ingredient or component part of any such ammunition", with component part being the bullet, the casing, the propellant or the primer. So my license must allow me to have a high enough limit to have both live and fired rounds in my possession.
2. My current allowance of 25 rounds means i can only have one box of ammunition as all 223 ammunition is sold in either 20 or 50 round boxes.
3. With my current allowance of 25 rounds if i fire one box of ammunition (20 rounds) i must safely and legally dispose of those empty casings before i can legally by another box. As the empty casings are classed as live rounds i must find an authorised range or scrap merchant which requires me to travel excessive distances to find such a place.
4. I regularly do vermin control on the lands i have permission for. This may vary from two to six times per week and my current allowance only permits me to carry one box of ammunition meaning i must make a return trip to the registered firearm dealer between each outing as well as disposing of the empties as per the means above between trips to the dealer.
5. Some ammunition comes in 50 round boxes but even for the 20 round boxes, buying these in bulk can save on trips to the dealer, cost as they are usually a bulk sale price, and means that i have a reliable supply of suitable and safe ammunition to suit my rifle.
6. Each different type of round/bullet performs differently in each persons rifle. My rifle is set up to use one particular type and if i cannot bulk buy this type i must use another. As it won't perform the same i cannot be sure it is zeroed and therefore safe. As zeroing outside an authorised range is illegal it means i must wait to the ammunition i use to come back into stock or if it doesn't to join a range simply to zero my rifle which is excessively expensive and somewhat redundant as i have no interest in target shooting.
7. Being forced to join a range to keep zeroing my rifle for each different type of bullet is not only excessively expensive and a cost i should not have to incur but may lead to me being FORCED to make a fraudulent application because my interest is NOT in target shooting but i would have to declare such interest when applying.
8. The Commissioner's Guidleines clearly set out that the minimum amount of ammunition to be used a BASE guide for each activity:
   • Farmer (one shotgun for vermin/pest control) – 100 rounds.
   • Deer Gun – 200 to 260 rounds.
   • Shotgun for clay pigeon, pheasant/pigeon/woodcock – 500 to 750 rounds.
   • Target Shooter (member of authorised club) – 750 to 1,000 rounds
   A single shotgun is listed as having 100 rounds, while a deer gun is down as 200-260. There is no guideline for a vermin caliber rifle or the act of vermin control however as the guidelines set out a 200-260 minimum for a deer gun and deer stalking is only for 6 months of the year (not year round like vermin control) i believe this to be a much better starting point than my current limit of 25.

There are other factors but they are more aimed at target shooter. Such as:

1. I regularly take part in target competitions and actively attend target ranges for practice. As a result of this I can go through a large quantity of rounds in a short period of time.
2. As a member of a range that allows reloading i must have empty/new/fired brass as well as a supply of bullets which requires my allowance to be sufficient to allow for these components as well as the live/finished round.

However you should only list those that apply to you.

Benny mcc

I'll have a go. Thanks. I'll be back on if I've any news