Buying abroad

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Hi,

I've googled as much as I can but still can't find any up to date information.

We're thinking of upgrading our motorhome and have 2 we are considering. One in the UK and one in France. Do any of you know is there any up to date information on vrt? Is it straight forward?

Any and all advice welcome!

piuswal

now online wrote: »

Hi,

I've googled as much as I can but still can't find any up to date information.

We're thinking of upgrading our motorhome and have 2 we are considering. One in the UK and one in France. Do any of you know is there any up to date information on vrt? Is it straight forward?

Any and all advice welcome!

Have you checked Revenue site?

Basically Revenue will put a value on the MH, OMP, and charge 13.3% or thereabouts.

You can challenge valuation.Need prices for same or very similar MH which give you a lower value than Revenue.

You can get values from any EU country, there is a bit of calculation involved because of the different tax rates in different countries. One of the quotes can be from an Irish dealer - does not have to be if it does not suit -

now online

piuswal wrote: »

Have you checked Revenue site?

Basically Revenue will put a value on the MH, OMP, and charge 13.3% or thereabouts.

You can challenge valuation.Need prices for same or very similar MH which give you a lower value than Revenue.

You can get values from any EU country, there is a bit of calculation involved because of the different tax rates in different countries. One of the quotes can be from an Irish dealer - does not have to be if it does not suit -

Thanks,

I did check revenue thanks, I wish there was an actual cost I could calculate to know if it's affordable!
From what I've been reading, they seem to pull a figure out of the air!

demoreino

Hi On Line ,
You are partially correct . The Revenue do pull a price out of the sky but they get advised from some of the biggest motorhome dealers in Ireland .
It is obviously in the interest of our dealers to keep imported vehicles as expensive as possible because you will then buy at home.
We have brought in several vehicles from the UK and each and every time we are gobsmacked at the figure they arrive at for VRT.
Unfortunately you have no way of knowing how much you will be charged until you have it registered. Then , you must pay this fee in full before you can even appeal . Appealing against the Revenue could be very difficult , they don't seem to listen to reason.
Best of luck with it,
Kevin

piuswal

demoreino wrote: »

Hi On Line ,
You are partially correct . The Revenue do pull a price out of the sky but they get advised from some of the biggest motorhome dealers in Ireland .
It is obviously in the interest of our dealers to keep imported vehicles as expensive as possible because you will then buy at home.
We have brought in several vehicles from the UK and each and every time we are gobsmacked at the figure they arrive at for VRT.
Unfortunately you have no way of knowing how much you will be charged until you have it registered. Then , you must pay this fee in full before you can even appeal . Appealing against the Revenue could be very difficult , they don't seem to listen to reason.
Best of luck with it,
Kevin

Must say the only difficulty I had was 1) finding same MH but with google it just took a few hours 2) stripping out the various taxes but once I had 3 quotes lower than Revenue they refunded promptly

They did refuse my first appeal saying I had to include a quote from an Irish Dealer (which gives some credence to your claim Kevin) but when I pointed out that the guideline said "may include" not "must include" they accepted my appeal.so, just make sure the info still says "may include" .

I found MHs in Finland and France which matched mine - year and model details -some other countries as well, but they were the lowest priced, I just supplied a copy of and link to the adds.

niloc1951

I maintain the way VRT is applied to motorhomes has to be illegal and against all tax law conventions.

There are a number of elements which VRT (especially as applied to motorhomes) falls foul of international conventions

Simplicity: tax assessment and determination should be easy to understand by an average taxpayer

Neutrality: taxes should not favour any one group or sector over another, and should not be designed to interfere with or influence individual decision making

The tax which each individual is bound to pay ought to be certain, and not arbitrary

The principle of simplicity is one of the principles of taxation and it advocates that Tax system should be plain, simple to understand by the common taxpayers. It should not be complicated to understand how to calculate and ultimately ascertain

How can VRT be called compliant with any of the above when by design it denies the taxpayer any degree of certainty before exposing themselves to liability for the tax.

now online

niloc1951 wrote: »

I maintain the way VRT is applied to motorhomes has to be illegal and against all tax law conventions.

There are a number of elements which VRT (especially as applied to motorhomes) falls foul of international conventions

Simplicity: tax assessment and determination should be easy to understand by an average taxpayer

Neutrality: taxes should not favour any one group or sector over another, and should not be designed to interfere with or influence individual decision making

The tax which each individual is bound to pay ought to be certain, and not arbitrary

The principle of simplicity is one of the principles of taxation and it advocates that Tax system should be plain, simple to understand by the common taxpayers. It should not be complicated to understand how to calculate and ultimately ascertain

How can VRT be called compliant with any of the above when by design it denies the taxpayer any degree of certainty before exposing themselves to liability for the tax.

Wish I could thank your post twice!
The uncertainty of how much vrt will cost is putting us off and we'll probably have to buy here. Which is another reason why sellers here shouldn't have any input in valuing a Motorhome to determine vrt.

CJhaughey

niloc1951 wrote: »

I maintain the way VRT is applied to motorhomes has to be illegal and against all tax law conventions.

There are a number of elements which VRT (especially as applied to motorhomes) falls foul of international conventions

Simplicity: tax assessment and determination should be easy to understand by an average taxpayer

Neutrality: taxes should not favour any one group or sector over another, and should not be designed to interfere with or influence individual decision making

The tax which each individual is bound to pay ought to be certain, and not arbitrary

The principle of simplicity is one of the principles of taxation and it advocates that Tax system should be plain, simple to understand by the common taxpayers. It should not be complicated to understand how to calculate and ultimately ascertain

How can VRT be called compliant with any of the above when by design it denies the taxpayer any degree of certainty before exposing themselves to liability for the tax.

The legal principle I think applies most of all is that a taxpayer should be able to understand their tax liability before entering into a transaction. This is currently not possible with the present Motorhome VRT system.
Its opaque to anyone but Revenue.
This is the VRT appeal wording:

The appellant should enclose evidence, obtained at their own expense, to support the opinion of the
chargeable value. The evidence might include:
 Signed dealer or valuer opinions of the price, including VRT and VAT, that a dealer in the
Republic of Ireland might have been expected to achieve for the vehicle in an arm’s length
sale at the time VRT was charged; and
 Copies of VRT and VAT inclusive advertisements by dealers in the Republic of Ireland for
similar vehicles relevant to the time that the VRT was charged

now online

CJhaughey wrote: »

The legal principle I think applies most of all is that a taxpayer should be able to understand their tax liability before entering into a transaction. This is currently not possible with the present Motorhome VRT system.
Its opaque to anyone but Revenue.
This is the VRT appeal wording:

The appellant should enclose evidence, obtained at their own expense, to support the opinion of the
chargeable value. The evidence might include:
 Signed dealer or valuer opinions of the price, including VRT and VAT, that a dealer in the
Republic of Ireland might have been expected to achieve for the vehicle in an arm’s length
sale at the time VRT was charged; and
 Copies of VRT and VAT inclusive advertisements by dealers in the Republic of Ireland for
similar vehicles relevant to the time that the VRT was charged

Isn't it in the irish dealers best interest to place the highest value on the motorhome though. I've tried without success to find the same motorhome anywhere.

Does anyone want to take on revenue!

Surely what they do is anti competitive

niloc1951

CJhaughey wrote: »

The legal principle I think applies most of all is that a taxpayer should be able to understand their tax liability before entering into a transaction. This is currently not possible with the present Motorhome VRT system.
Its opaque to anyone but Revenue.
This is the VRT appeal wording:

The appellant should enclose evidence, obtained at their own expense, to support the opinion of the
chargeable value. The evidence might include:
 Signed dealer or valuer opinions of the price, including VRT and VAT, that a dealer in the
Republic of Ireland might have been expected to achieve for the vehicle in an arm’s length
sale at the time VRT was charged; and
 Copies of VRT and VAT inclusive advertisements by dealers in the Republic of Ireland for
similar vehicles relevant to the time that the VRT was charged

The basis of an appeal is itself contrary to the neutrality requirement as it enables dealers to set the liability to their own advantage.

An advertised selling price is nothing more than an aspirational 'like to get' value. In the real world an advertised or list price could be discounted by up to 15% to achieve a sale.
An advertised price also includes VRT so the Revenue will charge VRT on VRT, they are applying a tax on tax already paid.

autumnalcore

Wonder would it be easier cheaper to change it through the dvla and then import it as a camper with the sale price as your receipt.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/registering-a-diy-caravan/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motorhome