Buying apartment with a family

fjon

I'm looking for people's thoughts on buying an apartment with a family of 4 (2 young kids).
We are looking at a fairly large 110sqm, 3 bed, two storey apartment, which is much bigger and modern than any house we've so far viewed. The apartment has two small balconies, and there is a common green area outside. The location is ok, as is the price, and the only thing really stopping us is the fact that it's not a house.
We are planning on buying something to live in for the foreseeable future, not something to "trade up" from in a few years.
Has anyone done something similar and what were your thoughts?

uck51js9zml2yt

What's your budget?
I wouldn't get an apartment with kids.
My brother in law did it in Europe but regrets it even though it's common.

Riskymove

are you happy for the kids to share a bedroom long term (if same gender not as much of an issue)

fjon

Riskymove wrote: »

are you happy for the kids to share a bedroom long term (if same gender not as much of an issue)

Yes, same gender, but there are three bedrooms so they don't need to.
Size wise there isn't an issue with the place, it's very big compared to any house we've seen.

Riskymove

fjon wrote: »

Yes, same gender, but there are three bedrooms so they don't need to.
Size wise there isn't an issue with the place, it's very big compared to any house we've seen.

OP

three bedrooms....two storey


Is this a duplex rather than an apartment? If so its not really that different from a house

jester77

Does it have a basement or attic facilities for storage? Does it have car parking facilities and somewhere secure for storing bikes? 110 sq. meters might be a bit cramped if you have no where to store things you don't regularly use.

fjon

Riskymove wrote: »

OP

three bedrooms....two storey


Is this a duplex rather than an apartment? If so its not really that different from a house

I guess it is a duplex, but not one with an outside entrance, it's inside an apartment complex. This is what I would typically think of as a duplex. We're currently living in something similar and it feels very much like a house, minus the back garden

fjon

jester77 wrote: »

Does it have a basement or attic facilities for storage? Does it have car parking facilities and somewhere secure for storing bikes? 110 sq. meters might be a bit cramped if you have no where to store things you don't regularly use.

No, it has 3 large storage spaces that would probably amount to the size of a small box room. Underground car and bike parking

o1s1n

Apartments just never really seemed child friendly to me to be honest. From the potential to fall off a balcony to no garden, communal areas having 'no ball games' signs, no pets etc.

Then there's the antisocial issues arising from close living such as kids running around hallways annoying their neighbours with noise, added noise in apartments annoying people in apartments underneath, where to store buggies, bikes etc. I'd aim for that house if I were you.

Rasputin87

How comfortable would you be sending the kids out to the common area to the play - is it visible from your window/balcony? Less peace of mind than sending them out to your enclosed back garden. Worst case scenario - if you hear one of them crying for help, how long does it take you to get out there - are you relying on elevators/multiple sets of stairs etc.?

.......

This post has been deleted.

jester77

fjon wrote: »

No, it has 3 large storage spaces that would probably amount to the size of a small box room. Underground car and bike parking

Don't underestimate storage. A small box room doesn't sound like a lot. Take a look in any of your families or friends garages, basements, attics, etc just to get an idea.

My basement has a lot of things in there, especially seasonal things. Winter jackets, sledges, winter tyres, etc. all need to be stored during the warmer days, balcony furniture, wet suits, bbq, summer tyres, etc. need storing during the winter. And if anyone in your family has particular type of hobbies, then that can take up storage space.

cruizer101

A lot of what people consider negatives are only negatives in bad apartments.

Management Fees.
Have these in many estates, fair enough probably are more in an apartment but so long as it is well managed they aren't really a negative

Being in such close proximity with neighbours - can hear everything. You need earplugs for the whole family.
so long as it is built well this shouldn't be a problem

Kids - they play in the car park and damage cars and annoy everyone.
If it is well laid out with parking separate from common green this shouldn't be an issues

Common areas being abused.
This is down to tenants, can have bad neighbours also

Restrictions on what you can have on your balcony, what colour your front door can be, what plants you can have on your doorstep - it gets petty.
This can be an issue alright

This is Ireland - build quality is not great on apartments. Particularly ones built during the boom.
A lot are built badly but not all

Parking, if its not plentiful then you may have clampers being allowed to run wild over the area, its a pain having a few people over with nowhere to park, its a pain if someone takes your assigned space etc...
Again if it is well planned not an issue, many new estates are so cramped there is little to no visitor car park spaces.

But the biggest gripe is - you are under the dictatorship of the directors of the management company and at the mercy of your neighbours. If lots of your neighbours decide to stop paying fees, then you suffer. If the directors decide to make changes that you do not agree with - it can be very difficult to prevent such changes going ahead. Now - you can try to become a director yourself - but who has the time?
This is very valid concern, as are the others, I don't mean to say they are not a issue that you need to consider and look into, but without looking into the detail of are they actually issues in this apartment they are not reason enough to write it off completely as an idea.

In an ideal world you might try rent a similar apartment for a while but given the current rental crisis I can see that not being plausible.

I don't think it would be for me personally and you should have a good think about it but don't write it off just because it is an apartment.

fjon

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Good list, although a few of them wouldn't apply to the place I'm looking at, or they are issues that would also be present were I to buy a house. Biggest issues out of what you list are the management fees, and your last point.

I've rented houses, apartment, and duplexes over the last 20 years and am somewhat familiar with some of these (i.e. being told to take stuff off my balcony, and people dumping stuff in common areas), but I've encountered many of these issues in houses as well (build quality, kids, parking, noisiness).

PhoenixParker

Sounds like a decent place to raise kids.
The only difference between it and a house is that it doesn't open directly to a garden.

If you're happy for your kids to play unsupervised* in the common area and that the advantages of size and location vs a similarly priced house are worth it then go for it.

*assuming they're old enough/when they're old enough.

thomas 123

Im living in a lovely duplex with a sea view with the girlfriend in Galway. I Cannot wait to move out and buy a house.

My biggest issues are:

Other peoples kids - they have no regard for privacy and sticking to their own patch, it sometimes feels like they are sent to congregate around my block as its in the center of the development.

Lack of private garden - Sometimes you just want to sit outside without others looking at you.

Visits from Charity people, religious people and TV license inspectors - it really feels like they come visit me more here, so much so that i installed a door bell with a camera, that has seemed to deter most of them.

Walking past other peoples doors when they are outside - this again relates to privacy , its annoying having to greet people constantly.

Like others said I think its a cultural thing, If none of the above bother you then maybe its for you!

One question though is the difference really that much these days in terms of price?

fjon

thomas 123 wrote: »

One question though is the difference really that much these days in terms of price?

Yeah, price is a big reason we're even contemplating this. For the same price we can only get house in serious need of refurbishment, or a tiny ex council house, or somewhere in a completely unsuitable location.

Captain Flaps

Myself and my partner are in a pretty big 2 bedroom apartment currently, moving to a three bed gaff when the sale goes through. The apartment is nice but not having somewhere to store things like tools, space for painting or other DIY bits (I'm not particularly handy but a shed with the bare minimum is a must for me) and having to traipse up and down through lifts and stairs would be a dealbreaker for me. SImilarly I want to be able to keep whatever pets I want and extend my house as I see fit - can't make structural alterations to an apartment.

fjon

Looks like almost all are agreed that it's not something they would do with a family. Certainly something to think about very carefully.

I was hoping there might be one or two people on the other side too.

fjon

sugarman wrote: »

It's each to their own, but I'd rather a fixer upper and put in the money youre going to be paying a management company in fees each year that will do little or nothing for you anyway.

A fixer upper appeals, but only at a lower price.
If we buy a house at the top of our budget, how can we afford to fork out 10-20k to get stuff like rewiring, double-glazing, kitchen and floors done?
Management fees, while expensive, are due every year.

4ensic15

fjon wrote: »

A fixer upper appeals, but only at a lower price.
If we buy a house at the top of our budget, how can we afford to fork out 10-20k to get stuff like rewiring, double-glazing, kitchen and floors done?
Management fees, while expensive, are due every year.

20k won't cover all of that work. If that work needs to be done, insulation, floor coverings and redecoration at a minimum will also need to be done.

fjon

4ensic15 wrote: »

20k won't cover all of that work. If that work needs to be done, insulation, floor coverings and redecoration at a minimum will also need to be done.

Thought that might be optimistic. Most houses we've seen are F or G BER rated executor sales that require significant work to get to a liveable stage. And that's without adding some extra space.

LirW

I grew up in Apartments on mainland Europe, all being rented. It's grand really. No, it didn't damage me in any way.

Yes you can absolutely raise children in apartments, they can adapt so well to circumstances. It's more important that you're happy with the place, nobody really can tell you if the place suits you and your family long-term. Personally I've seen a few duplexes with great layouts, being not any different from houses minus the garden.
If the place could work for you including storage then there is no reason not going for it, I promise you the kids will just do fine.

We bought a house with a small garden last year and the times my son (7) played in it is exactly 0 seconds. He spends his time out the front with the neighbour's kids. Plenty of neighbours turned their back gardens into low maintenance gardens that they don't use, keep the dog in or hang their laundry and that's it really.

Has it good access to amenities? That's a huge plus too.

It only comes down to how workable the place is for you. Do you like it and do you like it enough that it outshines all the downsides of it?
At the end of the day everyone here can tell you how awful/great apartment living is, without knowing the exact place, layout, area it's of little use really. Personally I would have no problem raising my kids in an apartment given the quality of the place is good (no poxy celtic tiger build that's made of paper).

Good luck with your choice!

stiofan85

fjon wrote: »

Yeah, price is a big reason we're even contemplating this. For the same price we can only get house in serious need of refurbishment, or a tiny ex council house, or somewhere in a completely unsuitable location.

Small young family too and we've a tiny ex council house, and one in serious need of refurbishment (about 75sqm). Pain in the h*le to refurbish, and still isn't finished but we don't even notice what's not finished, we're just glad to have a home of our own. I would say this on the "serious need of refurbishment" part - a lick of paint and some cheap laminate flooring can make an awful lot of difference if you can't do everything up front. IKEA kitchen etc.... You don't have to go mad and can still make a lot of improvements without breaking the bank.

Benefits of the ex-council house over apartment:
Dry clothes outside. Kids = loads of washing as you know.
We're putting in a log cabin/shed jobbie in the back garden for extra storage and potentially a small office/study.
Attic space for storage with loads of plastic boxes. Still more space up there
Car parked at the front door - carrying a child up/down stairs to a car park with shopping in your hand? what if the lift is broken?
Neighbours are only on one side (end of terrace) and can't hear them thanks to the foot of concrete between the houses (these ex council houses are built like bomb shelters).
No maintenance fees, so that goes towards the house etc...
Neighbours are all elderly and lovely.
They are home all day doing neighbourhood watch and accept packages in the post, babysit for us etc...
No masses of kids running around wrecking the place/causing noise.
We can extend down the line for more space (50% of houses around here are extended, PP won't be an issue)

I could not imagine going back to apartment living after doing it for 8 years in Dublin.

So yeah, I'd advise the ex-council house over an apartment, but if you can get a 3 bed version that would be better. Ours is 2 bed, but best we could afford at the time.

fjon

stiofan85 wrote: »

Small young family too and we've a tiny ex council house, and one in serious need of refurbishment (about 75sqm). Pain in the h*le to refurbish, and still isn't finished but we don't even notice what's not finished, we're just glad to have a home of our own. I would say this on the "serious need of refurbishment" part - a lick of paint and some cheap laminate flooring can make an awful lot of difference if you can't do everything up front. IKEA kitchen etc.... You don't have to go mad and can still make a lot of improvements without breaking the bank.

Benefits of the ex-council house over apartment:
Dry clothes outside. Kids = loads of washing as you know.
We're putting in a log cabin/shed jobbie in the back garden for extra storage and potentially a small office/study.
Attic space for storage with loads of plastic boxes. Still more space up there
Car parked at the front door - carrying a child up/down stairs to a car park with shopping in your hand? what if the lift is broken?
Neighbours are only on one side (end of terrace) and can't hear them thanks to the foot of concrete between the houses (these ex council houses are built like bomb shelters).
No maintenance fees, so that goes towards the house etc...
Neighbours are all elderly and lovely.
They are home all day doing neighbourhood watch and accept packages in the post, babysit for us etc...
No masses of kids running around wrecking the place/causing noise.
We can extend down the line for more space (50% of houses around here are extended, PP won't be an issue)

I could not imagine going back to apartment living after doing it for 8 years in Dublin.

So yeah, I'd advise the ex-council house over an apartment, but if you can get a 3 bed version that would be better. Ours is 2 bed, but best we could afford at the time.

Interesting post, and it sounds like in a few ways you got lucky with your house (end of terrace, good neighbours, thick walls).
I wouldn't rule it out yet, but the places we've seen so far wouldn't be feasible, financially. New paint, floors and IKEA kitchen wouldn't be easy to do if we buy at the top of our budget, and what if something major urgently needs to be done (boiler, plumbing, electrics).
It's a tough decision.

LirW

The question is do you really want an apartment or do you want it because it's in financial reach? If the thought of apartment living with a family doesn't sit right and the decision is mainly a financial one you might regret it.

I said it before, you can easily raise a family in an apartment, millions of families all around the world do it, but you're talking about the biggest investment of your life here and if the thought of it is mainly driven by finances, you could end up unhappy.

Where are you looking if you don't mind me asking?

fjon

LirW wrote: »

The question is do you really want an apartment or do you want it because it's in financial reach? If the thought of apartment living with a family doesn't sit right and the decision is mainly a financial one you might regret it.

I said it before, you can easily raise a family in an apartment, millions of families all around the world do it, but you're talking about the biggest investment of your life here and if the thought of it is mainly driven by finances, you could end up unhappy.

Where are you looking if you don't mind me asking?

No, we didn't set out to buy an apartment. However, we aren't as concerned with as many of the negatives that people point out about it - for example lack of garden isn't a huge concern.
Looking in Bray

LirW

I think it really comes down if the apartment works for you on a long term. If you feel good in it and also think it works for the kids, it's great. If there's a park nearby even better. Kids adapt very well to circumstances, it's often the adults overthinking it.

If it's the apartment that I think it is honestly the layout of it is great. The only thing that would be a bit off-putting for me would be storage heating that most apartments have, they can eat a lot of money in cold winters, unless the apartment is well insulated.

robp

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Very few of these concerns don't apply to some or all houses. Apartments are not more susceptible to noise then terrace houses. Building standards are the factor that matters. Common area issues, management fees, rules, limited parking etc all apply in new houses. You can avoid them by having a detached one off but that is not really comparable.

.......

This post has been deleted.

fjon

From personal experience of living in both a house and apartment there are some things that can be said in defence of the apartment:
Fewer (or no) barking dogs at night
Way less people ringing your doorbell selling crap
Way less junk mail
Usually warmer/ cost less to heat
Safer/ less breakins
Less people mowing lawns all summer

I'm still no more or less convinced after everyone's replies on this thread. It's a tough decision