Buying apartment with a family

maninasia

What it all boils down to is if that is all you can afford then go for it. Everything else is superfluous. House prices supposedly went up an average of 17k euro in one month.

That's the reality of the mess. I lived in an apartment overseas with my family and it's grand. Granted they are a bit more professional with security but management and facilities but it's good, my wife likes apartments feels they are very secure. We never get people ringing. If you find a decent building with decent neighbours you won't really have noise problems. Wouldn't mind a garden but can't get everything you want in life if you want to live close to your job and schools and public transport.

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danmanw8

I mean in this housing market, it might be the best way to go. There's an article below that touches on some of the different legal issues;

https://businessandlegal.ie/why-buying-an-apartment-is-different-from-buying-a-house-the-legal-issues

Noisy neighbours might be more of a common problem as you're more surrounded by neighbours. People move out of apartments more than houses too. Also someone said it about, but storage could be tricky, you might need to live a pretty minimalistic lifestyle but sure how bad. Might teach your kids to be tidier than most.

PhoenixParker

maninasia wrote: »

What it all boils down to is if that is all you can afford then go for it. Everything else is superfluous. House prices supposedly went up an average of 17k euro in one month.

That's the reality of the mess. I lived in an apartment overseas with my family and it's grand. Granted they are a bit more professional with security but management and facilities but it's good, my wife likes apartments feels they are very secure. We never get people ringing. If you find a decent building with decent neighbours you won't really have noise problems. Wouldn't mind a garden but can't get everything you want in life if you want to live close to your job and schools and public transport.

This is a big one.
I see so many people commuting hours each day for the must have house with a garden. The only time they see it during daylight hours is when they spend an hour mowing it at weekends. Otherwise they're at work or in the car driving places all weekend because when you live at semi-d densities you might get 1 or 2 amenities within walking distance vs what can be achieved at apartment densities.

Historically Irish apartments haven't been good for families - too small, no storage, no thought to amenities but the one you've described sounds decent.

Think about what you value, what you want to be close to and how you like to spend your time, then pick the property that suits you.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

On a vaguely related note I see that the government are going to drive towards more apartment building in the run up to 2040 to try and boost supply. I wonder will they do anything legislatively around the issues discussed in this thread, noise, parking, common areas etc.

PhoenixParker

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

On a vaguely related note I see that the government are going to drive towards more apartment building in the run up to 2040 to try and boost supply. I wonder will they do anything legislatively around the issues discussed in this thread, noise, parking, common areas etc.

They already have.
The guidelines that came in at the tail end of the boom massively improved the quality of apartments in terms of size, storage, common areas etc.


https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/def...s_21122015.pdf

Anything built from them on is much more lovable then 99% of the older stuff.

em_cat

Also, many apartment house rules preclude children playing in the common areas unsupervised and most OMC's will enforce this by fining and then in some cases and attain a judgement against the property.

Another thing is that a lot of apartment developments are not marketed to families so therefore are not built for families.

I know that these are issues can also be common in some housing developments, please keep in mind just because you think its big enough with plenty of storage, your other neighbours may or not appreciate living next door to or under two children bouncing around. This is one of the most contentious issues in a lot of developments.

LirW

em_cat wrote: »

Also, many apartment house rules preclude children playing in the common areas unsupervised and most OMC's will enforce this by fining and then in some cases and attain a judgement against the property.

Another thing is that a lot of apartment developments are not marketed to families so therefore are not built for families.

I know that these are issues can also be common in some housing developments, please keep in mind just because you think its big enough with plenty of storage, your other neighbours may or not appreciate living next door to or under two children bouncing around. This is one of the most contentious issues in a lot of developments.

And where should people with kids go then?
If your neighbours don't like kids, they'll never appreciate kids next door to them, same thing in houses. Really depends on the specific complex.

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LirW

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You've never been driving through Ballymun then :pac:

em_cat

LirW wrote: »

And where should people with kids go then?
If your neighbours don't like kids, they'll never appreciate kids next door to them, same thing in houses. Really depends on the specific complex.

It's not about our neighbours, it's about developers and the reality is, families with children are not really considered when designing apartment developments. It is well known in the industry that they only add elements to some degree because they are required under some development plans.

I do not necessarily agree with it but it is an issue that needs to be considered by the op.

em_cat

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Nor through Ballybrack or Rialto...

LirW

em_cat wrote: »

It's not about our neighbours, it's about developers and the reality is, families with children are not really considered when designing apartment developments. It is well known in the industry that they only add elements to some degree because they are required under some development plans.

I do not necessarily agree with it but it is an issue that needs to be considered by the op.

I fully get your point and there are apartments that are awful. But there are also apartments out there that are actually quite nice and would definitely work for a family of 4. Apartments are getting better, they are designed more spacious and workable for families now.
Granted, many of them are poxy shoeboxes.

em_cat

LirW wrote: »

I fully get your point and there are apartments that are awful. But there are also apartments out there that are actually quite nice and would definitely work for a family of 4. Apartments are getting better, they are designed more spacious and workable for families now.
Granted, many of them are poxy shoeboxes.

I can't speak for the rest of the country, but most of the apartment developments in Dublin City are not marketed to families, it's not about square meters within the apartment, it is the external facilities and the common areas; for example, in our development, we have roof gardens & courtyard gardens. They were not designed for children to play in supervised or not, our house rules reflect this as well. Also, we have rules about the playing with balls, hurling, golf, scooters etc...This is not because people asked for this to be the case, the rules were in place before sale.

However, we do have some open space amenities for families and community spaces that are owned by the council, I don't have an issue with this as I knew it before buying over 9 years ago and it brings life to the area.

You are right about some people, professionals without children mostly do not want to live under or adjacent to crying, screaming, bouncing, banging on walls, running inside, dropping toys, knocking things over...market research and our building regs reflect this.

Years ago I lived in Paris for several years and lived in a lovely small apartment complex off Rue Moufftarde, we had a family with small children that lived next door as well, but the place was very old and my adjoining wall was pure thick stone so the kids could do whatever they wanted and I never heard a thing from them and they couldn't hear me playing my violin or piano, but then again they where also very well behaved children both indoors and outdoors who knew the difference between inside and outside voices.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

A house, a house, a thousand times a house!
I see today that the government are further relaxing the regulations concerning apartments, in order to build as many of them as possible as a matter of urgency. You can just imagine the standards! This will only add to the nightmare scenario an apartment owner will experience especially in Ireland.

Heres Johnny

OP I'm not sure what kind of budget you are looking at but have a look at something like this duplex

https://touch.daft.ie/dublin/duplexes-for-sale/adamstown/31-stratton-walk-adamstown-dublin-1688203

I have a friend that lives in one near that one and its lovely. I rented a room from him for a while years ago then bought in same area. Own front door, own back garden. It's same size and about 60000 cheaper than a 3 bed semi in the area. Feels like a house in every way unless you stand outside looking at it.

DubJJ

I must admit that given the option, and with 2 children of the same gender, I would choose a 2 bed house with scope to extend in the future.
An apartment is very difficult to add value to and they can be more difficult to sell in the future (especially if there's any downturn in the market). And as everybody has mentioned, the maintenance fees, which can increase over time.
I've lived in both apartments and houses in my time and I think that the biggest difference is the feeling of ownership, apartments never quite feel your own as you need to get somebody else permission for almost everything.

I know you say you are looking for somewhere to stay long term but you always have to consider the possibility that you may not be happy there and wan't to give yourself the best opportunity for a secure and profitable investment.

seamus

sugarman wrote: »

It's each to their own, but I'd rather a fixer upper and put in the money youre going to be paying a management company in fees each year that will do little or nothing for you anyway.

Buy the worst property in the best area, not the best property in the worst area. Golden rule.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

seamus wrote: »

Buy the worst property in the best area, not the best property in the worst area. Golden rule.

Currently battling with extensive renovations on a house in a good area. Hoping you're right. At the moment we own a very expensive building site.

fg1406

I just bought a house after a few years of apartment living. The only benefits of apartment living that I felt were that it was cheaper to heat and it was nice having someone else take care of painting the block, grass cutting etc. In terms of the drawbacks, the noise between apartments was ridiculous. I could hear the neighbours close drawers. Also lack of storage space, parking was a premium as there was only 1.5 spaces per apartment but all apartments had 2 cars, no private garden / balcony, having to dry clothes indoors.

Now I lived in an apartment in Helsinki for a few months during a summer working abroad and the build quality was far superior to any apartment I’ve lived in here. We had a piano which no one could hear outside the apartment, a private storage unit in the underground car park (which were never vandalised or broken into which I saw happening in Dublin). The apartment even had a utility room which left more space in the kitchen for storage.

fjon

So the overwhelming majority are saying it's not a good idea.
I think this thread along with many discussions I've had with other people had mostly convinced me. Today I heard from the EA that the apartment complex have increased the maintenance fee to €2200 per year, which I think is enough to convince me to look elsewhere.
Interesting discussion though. I wonder will things ever change? Will Ireland be ready to house families in apartments in 2050?

DoozerT6

Not until they build apartments accordingly - and by that I mean apartments that are designed and built with families in mind, with adequate storage space, access to play areas (separate from the car park), and are properly soundproofed, with perhaps a separate living and kitchen area so the family aren't all piled into the one area.

Really, apartments as we now know them didn't really exist in Ireland until maybe the last couple of decades. Then of course they were mostly slapped up during the crazy days of the Celtic Tiger with all the ensuing problems of their small size, lack of soundproofing, inadequate storage, lack of parking etc. Plus the ongoing financial burden of management fees. I myself have to put away over €130pm for this alone, on top of my mortgage. I guess that won't change though.

It will be interesting to see if the government and councils look for developers to submit plans for larger, family-friendly high-rise developments to ease the housing crisis and general lack of space to build! Underground car parks, well-equipped on-site play/green areas, etc.

PhoenixParker

You mean like a 3 bed 110sqm two story property with an adjacent green space and two balconies?

They started building family friendly apartments at the tail of the boom when the new building regs came in.