Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

Silentcorner

tritium wrote: »

The lie that somehow rape cases don’t usually get to the end because of that dastardly defence trying to defend their clients.....

It is very hard to find definitive statistics on rape case, but I have linked the following article a number of times because it is the latest figures albeit for the North, the South isn't much different.

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/823-alleged-rapes-reported-northern-14477973

If you are comfortable with the rate in which we are convicting rapists fair enough.

I am not.

Do not forget the amount of women who do not even report a rape or sexual assault, since this trial began in late January there are probably several hundred women who have been raped in this country...trying to figure out whether they should report the incident, weighing up whether the risk is worth it....if any of those women read this thred what do you think they would do?

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

And then you have Blaine McIlroy's little cameo...

Poor fncker claimed he was in oldings position..... no one else's story aligned with his......the lads were lieing through their teeth IMO.....why ?

Silentcorner

tritium wrote: »

The lie that somehow rape cases don’t usually get to the end because of that dastardly defence trying to defend their clients.....






Can add it to your “oh they had a 12 man defence team just because they’re meanies” inference which was skewed biased nonsense too

You threw that last line in there after I replied to your post.

They had a 12 person legal team, as is their right, but it is unprecedented. That is not skewed biased nonsense no matter how many times you repeat it in your head!!

waffleman

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ulster-rugby-expected-to-announce-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-oldings-departure-837348.html

Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding's departure from Ulster Rugby is expected to be announced imminently.

A statement from the Irish Rugby Football Union and Ulster Rugby is anticipated on Saturday, the Press Association understands.

It is understood a number of final contractual issues were still to be ironed out on Friday, so confirmation could be delayed to the start of next week.

The IRFU and Ulster Rugby have been carrying out a review into the players' future in the wake of their acquittal on rape charges last month.

tigger123

Not surprised.

tritium

Silentcorner wrote: »

It is very hard to find definitive statistics on rape case, but I have linked the following article a number of times because it is the latest figures albeit for the North, the South isn't much different.

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/823-alleged-rapes-reported-northern-14477973

If you are comfortable with the rate in which we are convicting rapists fair enough.

I am not.

Do not forget the amount of women who do not even report a rape or sexual assault, since this trial began in late January there are probably several hundred women who have been raped in this country...trying to figure out whether they should report the incident, weighing up whether the risk is worth it....if any of those women read this thred what do you think they would do?

More deflecting tosh. You know we’ll what you posted was crap. I gave you a link to the rate of trial collapse. The nonsense around what’s a conviction rate has been well discussed here. Attrition rate is the only significant question in this space and that’s also been addressed by other posters.

Jimbob1977

Sponsors protecting their brand image.

Plain and simple.

Mrsmum

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Sponsors protecting their brand image.

Plain and simple.

As they are entitled to do. I'm sure none of us throw good money down the drain. Those lads put themselves in the gutter, sponsors have no intention of lying down in the gutter with them.

FrancieBrady

Mrsmum wrote: »

As they are entitled to do. I'm sure none of us throw good money down the drain. Those lads put themselves in the gutter, sponsors have no intention of lying down in the gutter with them.

:D:D you are talking about a bank here. your welcome to your moral guardians. :rolleyes:

Indeed....whatever is on a Jackson or olding worn Jersey going forward won't be getting my business.

#Top sh@ggers

Mrsmum

almostover wrote: »

It's a pity there wasn't as much of a protest movement when banks such as BOI 'raped' Irish citizens in the various mortgage scandals as there was for the ibelieveher movement. It will be interesting to see if a protest movement continues for victims of rape. Or will the noise die down now that the mob has gotten their pound of flesh.

I would say most people agree the banks destroyed or as you say "raped" the country. The banks would probably say they forced money on no one, they offered and when people accepted their big loans, the bank took that as consent. Not their fault the people just regretted it afterwards.

bloodless_coup

Disgraceful outcome if true.

The woman who made the false claim should be ashamed of herself.

Triggered outrage mob leading scummy advertisers taking a virtuous stance moralising to the population it miss-sells to and bleeds money from.

The whole thing is disgusting. All the while 4 innocent men have their lives destroyed.

Mrsmum

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D you are talking about a bank here. your welcome to your moral guardians. :rolleyes:

I don't think the bank are setting the tone but are following the mood of the people. If the mood was the other way, they would swing the other way. Which gives the lie that it's just a few feminists screeching their heads off.

doylefe

doylefe wrote: »

Disgraceful outcome if true.

The woman who made the false claim should be ashamed of herself.

Triggered outrage mob leading scummy advertisers taking a virtuous stance moralising to the population it miss-sells to and bleeds money from.

The whole thing is disgusting. All the while 4 innocent men have their lives destroyed.

What false claim?

FrancieBrady

Mrsmum wrote: »

I don't think the bank are setting the tone but are following the mood of the people. If the mood was the other way, they would swing the other way. Which gives the lie that it's just a few feminists screeching their heads off.

What the deluded mob don't realise is that they have now been silenced.

It's over, effectively and comprehensively swept under the carpet. No more national exposure for de cause, because the reality is the media are as much in the grip of the corporate world as the sporting bodies.

There will be as many girls in the VIP areas of nightclubs next week as there was before.
And the issues, if there ever was a credible one, will go back on the back burner.

Ohmeha

Mrsmum wrote: »

As they are entitled to do. I'm sure none of us throw good money down the drain. Those lads put themselves in the gutter, sponsors have no intention of lying down in the gutter with them.

Bank of Ireland also sponsor the FAI

The FAI have an actual convicted rapist playing for Waterford FC in the top tier of the FAI's own national league yet no sponsorship withdrawal

All these companies don't give a toss about actual rape victims, only when their $$$ are threatened by an organised mob fueling hysteria on social media trying the ruin the lives of innocent men

upandcumming

Silentcorner wrote:

On the plus side, this may very well put manners on any other professional or high profile sports star who just might think twice about how they treat those women who they think idolise them.

Put manners?

Silentcorner wrote:

These lads behaved like absolute scumbags, and when you work in a high profile public well paid job, there are consequences for that kind of behaviour.

I've asked this question before, and no one can give even a moderately acceptable answer: why are they scumbags? Where did they act like scumbags? Are you including them in the scumbags that roam the streets with hundreds of convictions?

Mrsmum

Ohmeha wrote: »

Bank of Ireland also sponsor the FAI

The FAI have an actual convicted rapist playing for Waterford FC in the top tier of the FAI's own national league yet no sponsorship withdrawal

All these companies don't give a toss about actual rape victims, only when their $$$ are threatened by an organised mob fueling hysteria on social media trying the ruin the lives of innocent men

That's why I said they are following the mood of the people.

Mrsmum

doylefe wrote: »

Disgraceful outcome if true.

The woman who made the false claim should be ashamed of herself.

Triggered outrage mob leading scummy advertisers taking a virtuous stance moralising to the population it miss-sells to and bleeds money from.

The whole thing is disgusting. All the while 4 innocent men have their lives destroyed.

Yawn to the bolded statement.

bloodless_coup

Funny that the actions of the males are reviled but don't dare comment on the actions of the female.

Do people really think she was going back to the party to try and start a loving relationship?

Ohmeha

Mrsmum wrote: »

That's why I said they are following the mood of the people.

The mood of the majority of normal people I know including men and women is that
1) they are found innocent in a court of law
2) do not approve of the content of the whatsapp messages but not career ending as we don't live in a cave and we all know alot of men and women speak in vulgar sexual terms about the opposite sexes especially in private whatsapp chats or personal conversations


Yet a minority starting on social media and aided by hypocritical media outlets can successfully end the Ulster careers of men found innocent through a court of law with accusations put against them with as many holes in them as sieve.

As a man I am frightened by all this

Mrsmum

doylefe wrote: »

Funny that the actions of the males are reviled but don't dare comment on the actions of the female.

Do people really think she was going back to the party to try and start a loving relationship?

Many loving relationships started off exactly like that. Course they would have been with decent guys not ones who admitted their actions " betrayed the values of my family and those of the wider public".

littlevillage

Ulster rugby and IRFU should have stood by the guys who were found not guilty of any crime. This is a dangerous precident, trial by media.

All the lads were guilty of was a bit of banter on WhatsApp. The type that is distributed daily by guys and gals. **** it, I have read and sent worse myself.

As regards Bank of Ireland....The CEO Francesa McDonagh is a feminist so hardly surprised by their stance. Hope her reign as boss is a short one.

meeeeh

Ohmeha wrote: »

As a man I am frightened by all this

Be afraid, be very afraid... the feminazis are out to get you.

Seriously are you worried every time when a sportsman is released from their contract? I follow F1 and there are plenty of decent drivers who have to make way to someone inferior with good sponsor backing. Sport is also businesses, they damaged it's reputation with their behaviour (no I don't mean threesome, they can have as many as they want as long as there is a bit of decency in their actions) and became liability. That's all.

FrancieBrady

meeeeh wrote: »

Be afraid, be very afraid... the feminazis are out to get you.

Seriously are you worried every time when a sportsman is released from their contract? I follow F1 and there are plenty of decent drivers who have to make way to someone inferior with good sponsor backing. Sport is also businesses, they damaged it's reputation with their behaviour (no I don't mean threesome, they can have as many as they want as long as there is a bit of decency in their actions) and became liability. That's all.

You have been silenced.
You think the bank are not working to stop their other feeders (the media) from airing the core issues here.
Self censorship by producers and presenters now comes into force.
J & O get to play rugby over in the UK (it seems) with very full pockets.

Mrsmum

As a general rule I think it's not a bad policy for one's public and private personas to align. I could be up to anything within my house but if it's proper ugly and it gets out, people within my circle will start to shun me. PJ and SO live on a bigger stage than I do and have a larger audience to answer to. That's just the way it goes. Isn't there some saying - to him that is given much, more is expected of. They didn't value their own good name. I bet they know the importance of it now when it's too late.

FrancieBrady

Mrsmum wrote: »

As a general rule I think it's not a bad policy for one's public and private personas to align. I could be up to anything within my house but if it's proper ugly and it gets out, people within my circle will start to shun me. PJ and SO live on a bigger stage than I do and have a larger audience to answer to. That's just the way it goes. Isn't there some saying - to him that is given more, more is expected of. They didn't value their own good name. I bet they know the importance of it now when it's too late.

They are playing rugby with a hefty bank balance. Their reputations are destroyed in the minds of those who wouldn't have changed their opinions anyway.

Their mistake? They drew the attention of a moral high ground mob willing to turn a blind eye.

Life will go on, girls will get hammered and throw themselves at successful men in VIP lounges even tonight.
The issues will disappear to the sidelines until the next time.

Faugheen

doylefe wrote: »

Disgraceful outcome if true.

The woman who made the false claim should be ashamed of herself.

Triggered outrage mob leading scummy advertisers taking a virtuous stance moralising to the population it miss-sells to and bleeds money from.

The whole thing is disgusting. All the while 4 innocent men have their lives destroyed.

Innocent until proven guilty works both ways.

Mrsmum

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are playing rugby with a hefty bank balance. Their reputations are destroyed in the minds of those who wouldn't have changed their opinions anyway.

Their mistake? They drew the attention of a moral high ground mob willing to turn a blind eye.

Life will go on, girls will get hammered and throw themselves at successful men in VIP lounges even tonight.
The issues will disappear to the sidelines until the next time.

And all those things would still go on if the wrong decision was made here too. On top of which we would have people using it to say f**k you to all those people they and you deem to be the deluded mob. Nothing deluded about right minded people.

C__MC

Sad day folks when two innocent men lose their job after being acquitted in a marathon trial by a unanimous descion. It certainly wouldn’t happen in any other profession. The RA in Australia didn’t even sanction Israel falou for some remarks during the week which where a lot more stronger then what Jackson said. Already the Twitter mob are out in their droves talking pony about the victim finding soloace/comfort in this descion by the IRFU. Sad day for Ireland where a trial by social media, strips two men of their dreams. Tough on paddy Jackson he was playing good stuff and would have made Japan 2019, sad when you place it in that context. I often think of Dylan Hartley and manuel tulangi and the rules they broke but yet where sanctioned and allowed back to play for england. Does not make sense,
Any way I certainly have lost a bit of respect for the IRFU. I wish the two lads all the best.

clevtrev

Mrsmum wrote: »

Many loving relationships started off exactly like that. Course they would have been with decent guys not ones who admitted their actions " betrayed the values of my family and those of the wider public".

yes indeed I know a lot of celebrities who married the groupies they brought home for a one night stand, not!

Mrsmum

clevtrev wrote: »

yes indeed I know a lot of celebrities who married the groupies they brought home for a one night stand, not!

No one marries a ons.

Whereisgalway

If i had a boi account i would close it down. Sponsors should not get a say in such matters

meeeeh

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Life will go on, girls will get hammered and throw themselves at successful men in VIP lounges even tonight.

Yes they will but maybe those successful men won't send them home crying and mock them next day. Maybe some of them will realise that is not how you treat fellow human being.

FrancieBrady

The story is now about the core values of the IRFU and the corporates.

How wonderfully upstanding they are. :rolleyes:

And the morally outraged can feck off to the sidelines.

Mrsmum

Whereisgalway wrote: »

If i had a boi account i would close it down. Sponsors should not get a say in such matters

But there would be more opening them up. Try and remember you're in the small 'mob' here.

C__MC

Am I really reading this? Waterford United have a convicted rapist under contract? You actually couldn’t make this up- where are the protests/social media mob?

Mrsmum

C__MC wrote: »

Am I really reading this? Waterford United have a convicted rapist under contract? You actually couldn’t make this up- where are the protests/social media mob?

I think there is an injunction around that case. As far as I know he was a minor at the time ?

Fann Linn

And the moral of this story is 'stay off watzap!'

meeeeh

C__MC wrote: »

Am I really reading this? Waterford United have a convicted rapist under contract? You actually couldn’t make this up- where are the protests/social media mob?

Because loads of young kids are looking up to Waterford United player nobody even knows the name of? You really don't understand that it's about their standing in society, not about their profession . Higher on the ladder they are less room for mistake there is.

ArthurDayne

Mrsmum wrote: »

Will you get off the stage. I never once said your pov was irrelevant. Go back and read my post and show me where I said that. I said what you are saying is from a man's pov and then gave you a woman's pov. And for a person who said they have and indeed will continue to call women sluts, you are really really touchy about the term mansplaining which is what I felt you were doing.

Why should I ever 'get off the stage' when people are calling for every private morally questionable statement we make to be used as the be-all-and-end-all of our beliefs and deprive us of our careers? That is what you are advocating is it not? A 'thought police' world where the private statements and jokes of citizens must be subject to moral audit, and all those who use derogatory language regardless of context should be cast from their jobs.

Like all dictatorships though, the one you envisage is clearly based on the doctrine of 'do as I say but not as I do'. You write eloquently about how being called a slut makes you personally feel. I never questioned how it makes you feel -- I never disputed it -- and I never purported to tell you how it should make you feel. You then, with remarkable arrogance, used the term 'mansplaining' to describe my sincere attempts at debating with you. You had no regard to how generalising my views based on my gender would make me feel did you?

But of course, the hypocrite that you are, you have not even offered an apology for your derogatory statement -- yet you have the sheer audacity to demand that others should not only apologise for using sexist terms in private, but should be sacked for it and categorised as sexists.

For the record, and in the interests of maintaining consistency in my arguments (i.e. not being a hypocrite) I don't think you're a sexist just because you used a generalising term in your private life. I'm sure you do not filter your language in the comfort of your home in the same way you might do in a work email or a public lecture. I know you didn't set out to hurt my feelings or the feelings of other men on this site. You used a silly term carelessly, as we all do. What angers me however are the double standards you apply. It seems that it's OK for you to use whatever derogatory term you want to generalise me and my opinions i.e. my views are 'mansplaining' just because I'm a man --- yet it's not OK for anyone else?

Heard a radio interview in the week where it was revealed that during the Judges summing up, council for Jackson “On instruction” ie told by Jackson to do so, objected to the tone used by the Judge. Apparently, it was suggested that her tone was more sympathetic to the girl. It was dismissed. It further shows the arrogance of the accused.

Omackeral

Mrsmum wrote: »

Oh dear, you really don't like getting a woman's pov do you.

Any woman that says “mansplaining” most likely has a loaded or sexist POV anyway.

This Aussie politician handled it beautifully when he was hit with it by a fellow senator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXh5repOWI

clevtrev

C__MC wrote: »

Am I really reading this? Waterford United have a convicted rapist under contract? You actually couldn’t make this up- where are the protests/social media mob?

mob and media have no interest unless the perps or the complainants are from a nice part of town, with good breeding or have some sort of public profile - obvioulsy playing for Waterford FC isnt public enough!

FrancieBrady

Another Rape Crisis centre lady(Susan McKay) on RTE there and STILL not a mention of the role women have to play going forward, if situations like this are to disappear.

Soapboxing and bandwagoning on feminist mantras instead.

Roger Hassenforder

Mrsmum wrote: »

That's why I said they are following the mood of the people.

a vociferous minority I feel, triggered enough to literally 'mobile'ize themselves to put thumb to screen, via twitter etc, so lets not use opinion polls to establish the mood of the "people in a statistically unreliable poll or two.
most people i know think its outrageous, both their identification in the media, and subsequent treatment after being found innocent.

lets remind ourselves of the conversation that has led to an outraged mob demanding they never play for their country again. Something they have worked towards all their life. Its not more than a hobby, Irish rugby was their life.

on being asked "how was she?" by a friend. Olding replied
"she was very very loose.”
Friend: “Any tips or stories Simon?”
Olding:“Went to Cutters, Ollies, then after-party”
Friend: “Any sluts get f**ked?”
Olding: “Precious secrets.”
11:16am JACOME WhatsApp member: “I said tonight is your lucky night.”
11:17am Olding :“we’re all top sh***ers”
11.17am Olding: “there was a bit of spit roasting going on last night fellas
11.17am Jackson: “There was a lot of spit roast last night.” (thats his contribution in full!)
11.18am Olding “It was like a merry go round at the carnival


two young men after what they thought was a consensual threesome (known as a spitroast" with a willing participant, indulge in some braggadocio. among their friends.
If you honestly think any young male in your life wouldnt say worse in the privacy of their friends, you are seriously deluded.
George Hook was hounded for a public clumsy utterance that a mob found unpalatable. These lads have been hounded for a private utterance.
Its fcuking outrageous.

TerrorFirmer

Mrsmum wrote: »

No one marries a ons.

While I've yet to get married, I've had several relationships that began with a 'ONS' - even though I don't even like that term, really.

bottlebrush

Fann Linn wrote: »

And the moral of this story is 'stay off watzap!'

That's the thing about all this - this 'behaviour' is not going to just disappear overnight - it's just that there will be no evidence of it

And in the interest of fairness, shouldn't the IRFU be examining the whatsapp messages and behaviour of their other players - role models - so that they can continue in their contracts. In fact, let's investigate the online activity of all celebrities to determine whether they are fit to continue as role models.

Oh wait....

Wrongway1985

C__MC wrote: »

Sad day folks when two innocent men lose their job after being acquitted in a marathon trial by a unanimous descion.

Nothing to do with the outcome of the trial. The behavior of these lads was scummy and the type a professional sports team would want well shot of if they don't want backlash from their partners and supporters. No surprise whatsoever.

Mrsmum

Hilarious how people who think they can say what they like themselves have such a big problem when someone else uses a word they don't like. Channel your inner female and put up with it like we have to do all the time.