Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

hatrickpatrick

Lucy8080 wrote: »

If this case happened south of the border , those lads would still be in their jobs.

Their right to anonymity until found guilty would have seen to this.

I didn't know this was a thing in Ireland until several days ago when my dad (former law student) pointed it out to me. Can't believe that one passed me by all these years, absolutely fantastic system and extremely progressive. Nice to see Ireland leading the way on something like this as opposed to falling in behind a bulk of continental European countries who thought of it first!

hatrickpatrick

Mrsmum wrote: »

Poll on the Clare Byrne Show tonight: 69% agreed with IRFU decision, 19% disagreed.

goz83 wrote: »

Well if the Claire Byrne show, the epicentre of balanced, unbiased debate says so :rolleyes:

This is the same Clare Byrne show which had an entire segment last year dedicated to the "I've just seen Imelda Quirke's arse coming down the ladder!" scene from The Commitments, and discussing how unacceptable that kind of talk is among lads and whether it's still ok to laugh at it because "it's from an older time". :rolleyes:

hatrickpatrick

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It absolutely has not.

I wasn't aware that the trial was still ongoing, nor was I aware that the jury had been instructed to reach a verdict on the balance of probabilities as opposed to the standard measure of beyond reasonable doubt :rolleyes:

yourdeadwright

Don't worry lads it wont get the stun hun down the road any attention to tweet about it, or it won't get the local Instagram blogger extra followers., so there be no mention of it as its just not as important as Rugby lads who where strangely enough found not guilty ,
it defo wasn't about attention all these thousand of Irish women where standing up for Women all over this Isand against 4lads who where not guilty
But sure never mind a Peado who pleaded guilty  praying on children !!!!!!!!!!!!!

hatrickpatrick

Captain Obvious wrote: »

As a legal concept I do. It's necessary to prevent the government simply locking up citizens without reason or due process. But that doesn't mean people, or companies, can't make up their own minds about someone or something based on what they know.

That's your opinion. My opinion is that companies etc should absolutely be bound by the same criteria when it comes to preventing miscarriages of justice. Being fired for an unproven allegation is just as much a miscarriage of justice as being jailed for one.

goz83

Mrsmum wrote: »

And yet Craig Gilroy is still in his job. So not just the words more the behaviour all round is why they are gone,

Funny you mention that. I brought it up several times that CG kept his job when other posters were saying the condemnation had nothing to do with the trial and everything to do with the text messages, of which PJ sent 1 (there was plenty of spit). Off with his head!

joe40 wrote: »

There is a really false equivalence been put forward here between a poster using the word coloured, without realising it caused offence, and the contents of the whatsapp messages in question.
Did anyone actually read the article it was the well respected actor benedict Cumberbatch that used the term, and apologised when he realised it was offensive. No further action required it was totally unintentional and that was accepted
Compare that to the attitude of some people here that argue that the word "slut" should not be offensive, even if others find it extremely offensive.

The only difference I really see is that the "slut" texts were made public. Mrsmum calling children "coloured" has not been made public, as she remains anonymous. She also hasn't made any sort of apology and hasn't really acknowledged her slur either, only to say that is if was wrong "fair enough".

I doubt her son has friends of darker complexion, as she would be aware that the word she used is racist.

Mrsmum: "Little Johnny, come in for tea and tell your coloured friends you'll be out later".

My son actually does have friends of different race. In fact, I don't think he has a single Irish friend. His friends are Eastern European, African and Asian. I would never refer to his friends in a derogatory/racist way. I tend to use their names, rather than their heritage to refer to them. If I don't know, or can't pronounce their names, I say "the tall blonde boy" or "the chatty one with the skate-board".

joe40

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Mrsmum wrote: »

Poll on the Clare Byrne Show tonight: 69% agreed with IRFU decision, 19% disagreed.

goz83 wrote: »

Well if the Claire Byrne show, the epicentre of balanced, unbiased debate says so :rolleyes:

This is the same Clare Byrne show which had an entire segment last year dedicated to the "I've just seen Imelda Quirke's arse coming down the ladder!" scene from The Commitments, and discussing how unacceptable that kind of talk is among lads and whether it's still ok to laugh at it because "it's from an older time". :rolleyes:

The poll on the Clare Byrne show is carried out by an independent polling company, not connected to the show.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It absolutely has not.

I wasn't aware that the trial was still ongoing, nor was I aware that the jury had been instructed to reach a verdict on the balance of probabilities as opposed to the standard measure of beyond reasonable doubt :rolleyes:

The Jury are not asked to prove innocence beyond reasonable doubt, they are already presumed to be innocent. The jury is asked to decide on guilt beyond reasonable doubt. I'm not saying the boys are guilty, the verdict re-established the presumption of innocence.
They absolutely work on probabilities, if there is only a small chance of innocence in the juries mind they must find the defendant innocent.

Captain Obvious

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I wasn't aware that the trial was still ongoing, nor was I aware that the jury had been instructed to reach a verdict on the balance of probabilities as opposed to the standard measure of beyond reasonable doubt :rolleyes:

It appears you aren't aware how the legal system works either.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That's your opinion. My opinion is that companies etc should absolutely be bound by the same criteria when it comes to preventing miscarriages of justice. Being fired for an unproven allegation is just as much a miscarriage of justice as being jailed for one.

It's not my opinion, it's fact. Criminal and civil cases require different levels of proof. And opinion requires none. You can live your life believing only things that have been proven beyond reasonable doubt in a criminal trial but the rest of the world doesn't behave like that.

Yeah_Right

JupiterKid wrote: »

It’s clear that Jackson and Olding’s rugby careers are now over. Clubs in Britain or France won’t take them and they’d even be lucky to play for any club in SA or Oz and New Zealand.

You've clearly never heard of Sam Tuitupo, Roger Randle, Eric Rush, George Moala, Russell Packer or Julian Savea. One of those guys actually played rugby for an Irish province despite having a DV conviction. No protests.

Jackson and Olding will find a club.

NAGDEFI

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Don't worry lads it wont get the stun hun down the road any attention to tweet about it, or it won't get the local Instagram blogger extra followers., so there be no mention of it as its just not as important as Rugby lads who where strangely enough found not guilty ,
it defo wasn't about attention all these thousand of Irish women where standing up for Women all over this Isand against 4lads who where not guilty
But sure never mind a Peado who pleaded guilty  praying on children !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe retype that post i haven't a clue what you're saying. For a start praying is 'preying'.

'all these thousand of Irish women where standing up for Women all over this Isand'. WTF??

Larbre34

goz83 wrote: »

Please do explain and bless us all with your wisdom. If you make a statement like that, at least have the decency to follow through with a valid explanation.

The fact you need it explaining, explains a lot.

An irrelevant and salacious personal attack upon the person, rather than the substance of the issue. I dont know or care about her personal life, particularly the pathetic gossip coming from you. If we only allowed people present on TV who had a flawless personal life, there would be a lot of test cards on show.

You do realise telly presenters screen test and grow their experience in front of camera, precisely to achieve a charismatic relationship with the camera? Its kinda the whole point.....

goz83

Larbre34 wrote: »

The fact you need it explaining, explains a lot.

An irrelevant and salacious personal attack upon the person, rather than the substance of the issue. I dont know or care about her personal life, particularly the pathetic gossip coming from you. If we only allowed people present on TV who had a flawless personal life, there would be a lot of test cards on show.

You do realise telly presenters screen test and grow their experience in front of camera, precisely to achieve a charismatic relationship with the camera? Its kinda the whole point.....

Yes, it explains that your one liner needed explaining, as it made no sense. Now that you have come back with a mostly irrelevant response to the issues that were being discussed, I will further explain to you what I was talking about.

The "attack" you mention was relevant to the point I was making. If you missed the point, it was that CB has intentionally made her personal life a spectacle for all to see. Far from gossip, this illustrates that she will do anything to get more attention which includes playing the audience. Often that means sacrificing a balanced debate in favour of a circus act. But oh wait.....look, the polls back us up. Polls and studies can favour the body paying the bill if such a body wants a certain result.

I wouldn't trust even a well balanced poll, as the results can be way off. Don't take my word on it. Ask Theresa May about the last election she called.

I don't care about a presenters personal life. In fact I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT. Instead, certain TV presenters and celebrities can't get enough of thrusting their private lives upon us. Charisma is welcome, but not at the cost of balanced debate and reasoned discussion.

skearnsot

NAGDEFI wrote: »

Maybe retype that post i haven't a clue what you're saying. For a start praying is 'preying'.

'all these thousand of Irish women where standing up for Women all over this Isand'. WTF??

They weren’t standing up for me!!!! I didn’t ask them to!!

skearnsot

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is the same Clare Byrne show which had an entire segment last year dedicated to the "I've just seen Imelda Quirke's arse coming down the ladder!" scene from The Commitments, and discussing how unacceptable that kind of talk is among lads and whether it's still ok to laugh at it because "it's from an older time". :rolleyes:

Generally I don’t mind CB however that lady that was on last night about changing your name when you get married (women taking husbands name) and how it’s demeaning to women ......what a load of skutch

goz83

skearnsot wrote: »

Generally I don’t mind CB however that lady that was on last night about changing your name when you get married (women taking husbands name) and how it’s demeaning to women ......what a load of skutch

There was a clip on rte news player about youngsters in the Seanad taking part in a debate. Well, it was more of a short story session, but it was highly focused on womens rights. I saw one token boy in there. A couple of them spoke about other equality issues which was good. Organised by Senator Bacik of course, so the content was to be expected. Just can't get a break from these types of stories.

FrancieBrady

skearnsot wrote: »

Generally I don’t mind CB however that lady that was on last night about changing your name when you get married (women taking husbands name) and how it’s demeaning to women ......what a load of skutch

Brendan O'Connor flew that 'name' kite on his programme too, not long ago. Must be a PR firm employed to get these topics into the national discourse.

NAGDEFI

goz83 wrote: »

There was a clip on rte news player about youngsters in the Seanad taking part in a debate. Well, it was more of a short story session, but it was highly focused on womens rights. I saw one token boy in there. A couple of them spoke about other equality issues which was good. Organised by Senator Bacik of course, so the content was to be expected. Just can't get a break from these types of stories.

I call her Senator Bad Chick:D

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Brendan O'Connor flew that 'name' kite on his programme too, not long ago. Must be a PR firm employed to get these topics into the national discourse.

You can be absolutely certain that pr firms and others with access to the airwaves are pushing particular arguments. Constantly. It's not so long ago since the very top person in RTÉ, the chair of the RTÉ Authority, was also the head of one of the biggest spindoctor/pr firms in Ireland - and for good measure his wife tends to be a regular guest on Marian Finucane's show and many other such shows pushing all sorts of agendas under the guise of commentary. This family's gig with RTÉ and the media generally has been going on for decades. With their connections, they "made" so many politicians. And "payback time" has never stopped.

Not to mention their son on Today FM. And definitely never mention that 25-year-old employee who took her own life in 2011 having made allegations of bullying against the same PR firm, or the pr woman in the same firm whose claims of bullying were settled very quickly with a confidentiality agreement when it emerged that her colleague who had taken her life had also made similar allegations.


Whatever you hear on radio/tv, or read in a newspaper, be sure there's an agenda and some toerags rubbing their hands in glee that they got their spin into the public domain.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

You can be absolutely certain that pr firms and others with access to the airwaves are pushing particular arguments. Constantly. It's not so long ago since the very top person in RTÉ, the chair of the RTÉ Authority, was also the head of one of the biggest spindoctor/pr firms in Ireland - and for good measure his wife tends to be a regular guest on Marian Finucane's show and many other such shows pushing all sorts of agendas under the guise of commentary. This family's gig with RTÉ and the media generally has been going on for decades. With their connections, they "made" so many politicians. And "payback time" has never stopped.

Not to mention their son on Today FM. And definitely never mention that 25-year-old employee who took her own life in 2011 having made allegations of bullying against the same PR firm, or the pr woman in the same firm whose claims of bullying were settled very quickly with a confidentiality agreement when it emerged that her colleague who had taken her life had also made similar allegations.


Whatever you hear on radio/tv, or read in a newspaper, be sure there's an agenda and some toerags rubbing their hands in glee that they got their spin into the public domain.

Nearly 40 years ago I did a course with this woman and I can honestly say I still have vivid memories of the feeling that I wanted to get out of the room asap.

skearnsot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can be absolutely certain that pr firms and others with access to the airwaves are pushing particular arguments. Constantly. It's not so long ago since the very top person in RTÉ, the chair of the RTÉ Authority, was also the head of one of the biggest spindoctor/pr firms in Ireland - and for good measure his wife tends to be a regular guest on Marian Finucane's show and many other such shows pushing all sorts of agendas under the guise of commentary. This family's gig with RTÉ and the media generally has been going on for decades. With their connections, they "made" so many politicians. And "payback time" has never stopped.

Not to mention their son on Today FM. And definitely never mention that 25-year-old employee who took her own life in 2011 having made allegations of bullying against the same PR firm, or the pr woman in the same firm whose claims of bullying were settled very quickly with a confidentiality agreement when it emerged that her colleague who had taken her life had also made similar allegations.


Whatever you hear on radio/tv, or read in a newspaper, be sure there's an agenda and some toerags rubbing their hands in glee that they got their spin into the public domain.

Mother of God - good ole corrupt Ireland

anthonyjmaher

I guess the greatest irony is that the guys stand accused of being misogynistic, yet they have been driven out of their jobs by women who hate men.

They should have been suspended for a further two months and then allowed back into the team. There is no justice in any of this for the two guys. They have been found innocent, but driven out of their jobs by a lunatic mob.

anewme

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Don't worry lads it wont get the stun hun down the road any attention to tweet about it, or it won't get the local Instagram blogger extra followers., so there be no mention of it as its just not as important as Rugby lads who where strangely enough found not guilty ,
it defo wasn't about attention all these thousand of Irish women where standing up for Women all over this Isand against 4lads who where not guilty
But sure never mind a Peado who pleaded guilty  praying on children !!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has to be meant for the dumb Facebook status thread?

Cienciano

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jackson heading to Clermont.
Olding heading to Exeter.

Brilliant, two good enough teams and still in the Irish public eye. Delighted.

Disappointment for you then, those stories were just made up. Was thinking Clermont was too high a level for Jackson.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/clermont-distance-themselves-from-jackson-36814338.html

FrancieBrady

Cienciano wrote: »

Disappointment for you then, those stories were just made up. Was thinking Clermont was too high a level for Jackson.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/clermont-distance-themselves-from-jackson-36814338.html

Yep, would have liked to see him at Clermont. Think he will still get a good team, he is too good and international calibre players are thin on the ground atm.

Larbre34

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

I guess the greatest irony is that the guys stand accused of being misogynistic, yet they have been driven out of their jobs by women who hate men.

They should have been suspended for a further two months and then allowed back into the team. There is no justice in any of this for the two guys. They have been found innocent, but driven out of their jobs by SPONSORS.

FYP.

Sharknose

NAGDEFI wrote: »

I call her Senator Bad Chick:D

More like "Batty Chick"

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yep, would have liked to see him at Clermont. Think he will still get a good team, he is too good and international calibre players are thin on the ground atm.

I think which ever clubs sign them will announce it during the summer when rugby is not getting any coverage. It will be a small press release that gets buried somewhere in the back pages because everyone has moved on. Wouldn't be surprised if it happened during the soccer world cup.

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think which ever clubs sign them will announce it during the summer when rugby is not getting any coverage. It will be a small press release that gets buried somewhere in the back pages because everyone has moved on. Wouldn't be surprised if it happened during the soccer world cup.

I think Clermont and Exeter will review how much opposition has come to the suggestion that they might sign (the story was a well managed leak I reckon) has come to them directly from their own fan base.

I wouldn't rule them out at all.

RabbleRouser2k

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think Clermont and Exeter will review how much opposition has come to the suggestion that they might sign (the story was a well managed leak I reckon) has come to them directly from their own fan base.

I wouldn't rule them out at all.

Might be a negotiation tactic-'we're not interested'-but more like a 'not interested at your current rate'... kinda deal.

He knows he needs a club, and they know it too-so he might have less negotiation than before.

joe40

Not in any way trying to diminish the importance of the story here regardless of your point of view, but  would this be news in France or even Britain for that matter.

I would regularly check some British media online and there was very little reference to this particular case, I would imagine even less so in France.

mfceiling

Cienciano wrote: »

Was thinking Clermont was too high a level for Jackson.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/clermont-distance-themselves-from-jackson-36814338.html

Did you? An irish fly half with 6N experience, ERCC experience and part of a team who beat SA at home with 14 men for most of the game.

Too high a level? Go away out of that.

blanch152

joe40 wrote: »

Not in any way trying to diminish the importance of the story here regardless of your point of view, but  would this be news in France or even Britain for that matter.

I would regularly check some British media online and there was very little reference to this particular case, I would imagine even less so in France.

I checked rugbyworld.com and they had no mention of it.

They did have a number of articles on homophobia in rugby and Israel whatshisname in Australia.

Appledreams15

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

I guess the greatest irony is that the guys stand accused of being misogynistic, yet they have been driven out of their jobs by women who hate men.

They should have been suspended for a further two months and then allowed back into the team. There is no justice in any of this for the two guys. They have been found innocent, but driven out of their jobs by a lunatic mob.

Go on the lunatic mob.
It was successful.

DavidLyons_

Appledreams15 wrote: »

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

I They have been found innocent, but driven out of their jobs by a lunatic mob.

Go on the lunatic mob.
It was successful.

I think you may be getting carried away in your bitter glee.

It appears to be reasonable to assume that the players have indeed been driven out for being misogynistic by a bunch of irrational misandrists.

Be absolutely sure of this, they'll both have lucrative contracts and new clubs very soon. You may very well implode with impotent rage when that happens.

Appledreams15

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

I think you may be getting carried away in your bitter glee.

It appears to be reasonable to assume that the players have indeed been driven out for being misogynistic by a bunch of irrational misandrists.

Be absolutely sure of this, they'll both have lucrative contracts and new clubs very soon. You may very well implode with impotent rage when that happens.

Why would I care if they sign for a club abroad? Let them make a living.
I am happy they were kicked out of ireland. Delighted in fact.

Sweetemotion

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Go on the lunatic mob.
It was successful.

That lunatic mob will always be looking for someone to attack, one day it could be you.

FrancieBrady

Good article.

Those who really are liberal – definition: willing to respect and accept behaviour and opinions different to our own – must fight this pervasive belief system that is threatening the most cherished of all liberties. Otherwise we are rolling back decades of progress that has created a western world where free speech is one of the fundamental tenets of society.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/larissa-nolan-political-correctness-will-hurt-us-all-in-the-end-1.3180394#.Wte5IOY495o.facebook

FrancieBrady

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Why would I care if they sign for a club abroad? Let them make a living.
I am happy they were kicked out of ireland. Delighted in fact.

Aren't you abroad with all the good/nice men? Utopia will be disrupted

backspin.

I think we have lost the run of ourselves here. These guys were found not guilty so the punishment is for the way they talked about women on watsapp? Is that really something they should lose their entire careers over as some of their opponents seem to want.

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Aren't you aboard with all the good/nice men? Utopia will be disrupted

I was just thinking the same thing. Imagine if they ended up in her hometown.

DavidLyons_

Appledreams15 wrote: »

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

I think you may be getting carried away in your bitter glee.

It appears to be reasonable to assume that the players have indeed been driven out for being misogynistic by a bunch of irrational misandrists.

Be absolutely sure of this, they'll both have lucrative contracts and new clubs very soon. You may very well implode with impotent rage when that happens.

Why would I care if they sign for a club abroad? Let them make a living.
I am happy they were kicked out of ireland. Delighted in fact.

They haven't been "kicked out of Ireland".

Yeah_Right wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Aren't you aboard with all the good/nice men? Utopia will be disrupted

I was just thinking the same thing. Imagine if they ended up in her hometown.

Please, PLEASE, let this happen.

blanch152

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Go on the lunatic mob.
It was successful.

I have suspected for a while that you are part of the group that favours mob justice over the rule of law.

There is nothing wrong with believing the woman, but there is everything wrong in hounding a man out of a job for something he has been found not guilty of.

These are not politicians, whose job requires them to set standards. They are rugby players, that is all.

jimmycrackcorm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Oh, and she gave them all oral sex, according to them, and hand jobs...so they all did manage to perform...

On a technical point, from a mans point of view this isn't performing.
In rugby parlance, it's as if you hand over the ball to the opposite team and they simply go to their line and score the try for you.

FingerDeKat

Am I missing something...2 men get found not guilty and they have now lost their jobs ?

Only thing to take from this that is that the NI legal system needs to change... the complainant and the accused have the right to be not named..no public access and a block on reporting.

If found to be guilty report away , name and shame.

RabbleRouser2k

FingerDeKat wrote: »

Am I missing something...2 men get found not guilty and they have now lost their jobs ?

Only thing to take from this that is that the NI legal system needs to change... the complainant and the accused have the right to be not named..no public access and a block on reporting.

If found to be guilty report away , name and shame.

I could see that falling apart, quickly-the 'report and name and shame' wouldn't protect the complainant's anonymity.

Or you could run into a Ched Evans situation-as in appeals conviction, found not guilty, and suddenly Evans can sue a whole ton of people.

Roger Hassenforder

backspin. wrote: »

I think we have lost the run of ourselves here. These guys were found not guilty so the punishment is for the way they talked about women on watsapp? Is that really something they should lose their entire careers over as some of their opponents seem to want.

They didnt lose their carers over the whatsapp though really. Gilroy got a few weeks suspension for far "worse" than Jackson. They were hounded out by the ibelieve her mob after being acquitted, to make an example of them, and their "toxic masculinity" and white male middleclass "privilige."

Behaving in less than a gentlemanly manner, but not illegal, isnt something you should lose your career over. A suspension would have sufficed most i reckon.

Appledreams15

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

They didnt lose their carers over the whatsapp though really. Gilroy got a few weeks suspension for far "worse" than Jackson. They were hounded out by the ibelieve her mob after being acquitted, to make an example of them, and their "toxic masculinity" and white male middleclass "privilige."

Behaving in less than a gentlemanly manner, but not illegal, isnt something you should lose your career over. A suspension would have sufficed most i reckon.

Hmm
If you really think people should stay playing rugby after:
The girl having an injury
Blood all over the bed
Girl hysterical from numerous accounts
Texts such as: she was very very loose, it was like a merry go round at a carnival,
Im not sure what's wrong with you.

As Ulster Rugby said, they stand for respect, they can't have people playing that have no respect for women.

Appledreams15

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

They didnt lose their carers over the whatsapp though really. Gilroy got a few weeks suspension for far "worse" than Jackson. They were hounded out by the ibelieve her mob after being acquitted, to make an example of them, and their "toxic masculinity" and white male middleclass "privilige."

Behaving in less than a gentlemanly manner, but not illegal, isnt something you should lose your career over. A suspension would have sufficed most i reckon.

Really? Who are you to decide what Ulster Rugby and sponsors stand for?
People take this stuff very seriously.

goz83

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Go on the lunatic mob.
It was successful.

Well at least you acknowledge that there was a "lunatic mob". Have you noticed your posts have been lacking the usual thanks for quite a while now? Even those who were sharing your views have distanced themselves from your attitude and rightly so. It's toxic. Most of the other posters at least engaged in debate and discussion. People don't always agree, but engaging in debate is healthy and fair, especially when discussing such an important topic. However you have relentlessly posted insults and ignored posters who questioned you.

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Why would I care if they sign for a club abroad? Let them make a living.
I am happy they were kicked out of ireland. Delighted in fact.

You care because you are clearly a man hater. I came across a few of your posts throughout the forum and you pay waaaay too much attention to threads based on gender. I saw your post where you say that the number on thing you look for in a man....your top priority....is that he is abroad. Spend a few days....use him and then move on. Classy girl

twinytwo

I wonder why all these people are not out protesting and whinging about what the garda top ranks conspired to do to garda Mccabe... but then why proest something that actually matters and has far more serious consequences for the country .... reality is it does not suit the little snowflake agendas.