Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

Jayesdiem

Looks like the two lads have found a club. Delighted for them. Just hope it is a sufficient distance from home such that they get a bit of peace and quiet finally.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/paddy-jackson-agrees-deal-to-join-sale-sharks-and-stuart-olding-expected-to-follow-36864737.html

Fann Linn

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Looks like the two lads have found a club. Delighted for them. Just hope it is a sufficient distance from home such that they get a bit of peace and quiet finally.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/paddy-jackson-agrees-deal-to-join-sale-sharks-and-stuart-olding-expected-to-follow-36864737.html

I hope so. Ulster's loss.

AudreyHepburn

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Looks like the two lads have found a club. Delighted for them. Just hope it is a sufficient distance from home such that they get a bit of peace and quiet finally.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/paddy-jackson-agrees-deal-to-join-sale-sharks-and-stuart-olding-expected-to-follow-36864737.html

Good for them - there’s absolutely no reason why they shouldn’t be afforded every opportunity to get on with their lives free of ridicule and suspicion.

facehugger99

Would appear he had to take a significant salary drop joining a mid-table English side.

There just wasn't the interest from the high-paying French clubs that the armchair experts on here were confidently predicting a few weeks ago.

Fann Linn

facehugger99 wrote: »

Would appear he had to take a significant salary drop joining a mid-table English side.

There just wasn't the interest from the high-paying French clubs that the armchair experts on here were confidently predicting a few weeks ago.

As opposed to the armchair experts on here who confidently predicted they'd never play professionally again.

£250k isn't too bad a wage.

facehugger99

Fann Linn wrote: »

As opposed to the armchair experts on here who confidently predicted they'd never play professionally again.

£250k isn't too bad a wage.

He'll have the legal fees paid back before retirement no doubt

FrancieBrady

No doubt there will be furious searching of Sale Sharks email address this morning to allow the newly outraged twitteratti to vent at a little bit of justice being done.

Good to see them get their careers back on track.

pjohnson

facehugger99 wrote: »

Would appear he had to take a significant salary drop joining a mid-table English side.

There just wasn't the interest from the high-paying French clubs that the armchair experts on here were confidently predicting a few weeks ago.

Are you sending that email to world rugby yet?

facehugger99

pjohnson wrote: »

Are you sending that email to world rugby yet?

It would seem that societal mores and market forces have already had the desired effect

salmocab

Mid table English side! He’s moving from Ulster hardly the top table in the pro 14. Still making a lot more money than most could dream of, that anyone would try to gloat about this is pathetic and worse that some people thought they should never play rugby again and should change careers.

Yeah_Right

facehugger99 wrote: »

Would appear he had to take a significant salary drop joining a mid-table English side.

If Sale win this weekend it should be enough to get them into the play offs.

I really hope Sale qualify for Europe next year in either the Champions Cup or the Challenge Cup and they end up in the same group as Ulster. Will the #Ibelieveher idiots remember to protest or will they have moved on to something else by then?

upandcumming

Yeah_Right wrote: »

If Sale win this weekend it should be enough to get them into the play offs.

I really hope Sale qualify for Europe next year in either the Champions Cup or the Challenge Cup and they end up in the same group as Ulster. Will the #Ibelieveher idiots remember to protest or will they have moved on to something else by then?

Most of them hadn't a clue what they were talking about in the first place. Clowns.

Yeah_Right

upandcumming wrote: »

Most of them hadn't a clue what they were talking about in the first place. Clowns.

A bunch of them are probably pouring over a map of Ireland trying to find Sale as we speak.

salmocab

Yeah_Right wrote: »

A bunch of them are probably pouring over a map of Ireland trying to find Sale as we speak.

Maps still out from looking for Belfast in the republic

Ulysses Gaze

facehugger99 wrote: »

Would appear he had to take a significant salary drop joining a mid-table English side.

There just wasn't the interest from the high-paying French clubs that the armchair experts on here were confidently predicting a few weeks ago.

Have some...

jm08

Lost their case against BBC and a freelance reporter. Have to pay £20K legal costs.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-stuart-olding-to-pay-bbc-20-000-in-legal-costs-1.3481357

Happy they are given a chance to move on. Sale love signing controversial players

Ulysses Gaze

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No doubt there will be furious searching of Sale Sharks email address this morning to allow the newly outraged twitteratti to vent at a little bit of justice being done.

Good to see them get their careers back on track.

It's begun

https://twitter.com/SaleSharksRugby/status/991332894382743552

https://twitter.com/SaleSharksRugby/status/991613019661721601

Muahahaha

The Mob has won.

Long live the Mob.

facehugger99

jm08 wrote: »

Lost their case against BBC and a freelance reporter. Have to pay £20K legal costs.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-stuart-olding-to-pay-bbc-20-000-in-legal-costs-1.3481357

Jaysus,

Poor Paddy will be playing into his 40's at this rate just to pay his legal fees.

FrancieBrady

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

It's begun

https://twitter.com/SaleSharksRugby/status/991332894382743552

https://twitter.com/SaleSharksRugby/status/991613019661721601

I sincerely hope somebody in Sale politely explains that disrespecting a single woman or man is not the same as disrespecting all women or all men.

It is fundamental stuff really and I hope they do not have to be rude in telling them.

Yeah_Right

facehugger99 wrote: »

Jaysus,

Poor Paddy will be playing into his 40's at this rate just to pay his legal fees.

How much do you think his lawyers cost?

Anyway, I'm guessing its a 2 or 3 year deal with Sale. I'm hoping he gets back to the level he was at, leads them to the semis or a final as well as some good showings in Europe. Then the big money offers will come in.

jm08

Yeah_Right wrote: »

How much do you think his lawyers cost?

Anyway, I'm guessing its a 2 or 3 year deal with Sale. I'm hoping he gets back to the level he was at, leads them to the semis or a final as well as some good showings in Europe. Then the big money offers will come in.

The £20k were the BBC's costs.

Think I heard something like £350K for his own barrister. IRFU payoff should cover most of that.

Edit: Think Sale might be looking at having Jackson to fill in for McGinty who will be at the world cup.

Ulysses Gaze

Statement from Sale

"No substance to the rumours currently circulating in relation to the signing of the two international rugby players Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding. Our search continues for top class players to bolster the squad for next season."

Faugheen

They said that about James O Connor as well.

I would imagine they will sign and it will be announced during the World Cup (soccer) when nobody's paying attention to rugby.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Same mob behaviour was seen when wrongfully convicted footballer Ched Evans was released from prison and attempted to resume his career.

When Oldham Athletic made a move their chairman received a letter in the mail from somebody threatening to rape his daughter.

jm08

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Same mob behaviour was seen when wrongfully convicted footballer Ched Evans was released from prison and attempted to resume his career.

When Oldham Athletic made a move their chairman received a letter in the mail from somebody threatening to rape his daughter.

Lets not leave out the part about the mob behaviour that identified the woman involved and who has had to go into hiding with a new identity.

facehugger99

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Same mob behaviour was seen when wrongfully convicted footballer Ched Evans was released from prison and attempted to resume his career.

When Oldham Athletic made a move their chairman received a letter in the mail from somebody threatening to rape his daughter.

So mob behaviour or just random nut-jobs - Which is it?

2smiggy

facehugger99 wrote: »

So mob behaviour or just random nut-jobs - Which is it?

random nut jobs , making up the mobs online

BBDBB

Im a mob


at least I think thats what they're shouting at me????

Muahahaha

Looks like Jackson & Olding are going to have a hard time finding a club. The Sale rumours were true until a sponsor came in and pulled the plug https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sale-sponsor-contacts-club-over-jackson-and-olding-link-36872144.html

A lead sponsor of rugby club Sale Sharks has spoken to the club's boss over any potential move for Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding after they were linked with the shamed players.

The move comes after the English Premiership club moved to distance itself from links to the former Ulster Rugby pair.

It's understood that Andy Bell - co-founder of AJ Bell, who is Sale's stadium sponsor - has been in touch with director of rugby Steve Diamond since reports circulated about a possible move for the two players.

Given that Sale have taken on controversial players in the past and wont be on this occasion I would think that Jackson and Oldings options are even more limited now. Also every time a club rejects them their wage value goes even further down.

Jmccoy1

Maybe they should just retire.

This is ridiculous. This punishment is completely disproportionate. The biggest voices in all this probably don't know the rules to Rugby. They probably never heard the name Paddy Jackson until all this. I'm actually disgusted if they have to seek new career.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

This is ridiculous. This punishment is completely disproportionate. The biggest voices in all this probably don't know the rules to Rugby. They probably never heard the name Paddy Jackson until all this. I'm actually disgusted if they have to seek new career.

I would imagine they will find some club but it does appear that the French ones are not biting and now Exeter and Sale are the same so their options are getting limited. Perhaps Australia/NZ or even Japan might be a better option for them.

One thing I have learned from this is the power the sponsors hold. They are responsible for approx 75% of Ulsters income so you would imagine it is the same at other clubs. Which means the sponsors pay the wages and ultimately call the shots. Jackson and Olding now seem to be victims of that reality.

meeeeh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is ridiculous. This punishment is completely disproportionate. The biggest voices in all this probably don't know the rules to Rugby. They probably never heard the name Paddy Jackson until all this. I'm actually disgusted if they have to seek new career.

I actually feel sorry for them but if you are a sponsor at the time of Weinstein, Cosby and similar scandals, their names couldn't be more toxic. It doesn't matter who heard their name before or who didn't, rugby is not amateur sport, it's business relying on sponsors. They are pr nightmare and unless someone signs them on the quiet it will be very hard to find a club in Europe.

RabbleRouser2k

There's gonna be a certain desperation for them to get a team now-I mean, they owe the BBC 20 grand due to a settlement. It's gonna hamper their possible club signings.
They may have to take what they can get.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

facehugger99 wrote: »

So mob behaviour or just random nut-jobs - Which is it?

Well, that, all kinda depends on how many nutjobs we're talking about, doesn't it? That said, given the new below, it also depends on which mob/nutjobs you're talking about specifically.

Deleted User wrote: »

This is ridiculous. This punishment is completely disproportionate. The biggest voices in all this probably don't know the rules to Rugby. They probably never heard the name Paddy Jackson until all this. I'm actually disgusted if they have to seek new career.

This isn't a punishment, though. It's a consequence of something you do being seen unfavorably in the public light when you're a figure that is frequently in the public light (regardless of whether or not said act results in a conviction).

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

I would imagine they will find some club but it does appear that the French ones are not biting and now Exeter and Sale are the same so their options are getting limited. Perhaps Australia/NZ or even Japan might be a better option for them.

One thing I have learned from this is the power the sponsors hold. They are responsible for approx 75% of Ulsters income so you would imagine it is the same at other clubs. Which means the sponsors pay the wages and ultimately call the shots. Jackson and Olding now seem to be victims of that reality.

meeeeh wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for them but if you are a sponsor at the time of Weinstein, Cosby and similar scandals, their names couldn't be more toxic. It doesn't matter who heard their name before or who didn't, rugby is not amateur sport, it's business relying on sponsors. They are pr nightmare and unless someone signs them on the quiet it will be very hard to find a club in Europe.

Sponsors have heeded as a direct result of the mob. While I do think they should be held to higher standards as they are essentially entertainers, if the punishment is to find new career entirely for being found acquitted of rape and sending abhorrent text messages, I am disgusted. Come up with a few hashtags, do a few protests and you can ruin anyone's career apparently. I hope there's a correction in the future against this mob mentality. It needed to happen but it needs be reined in. Whats the point of having a legal system at all. Strange times. I wonder if Louis CK is ever going to work again.

The_Kew_Tour

Delighted they ain't getting no clubs. Getting what they deserve

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

Sponsors have heeded as a direct result of the mob. While I do think they should be held to higher standards as they are essentially entertainers, if the punishment is to find new career entirely for being found acquitted of rape and sending abhorrent text messages, I am disgusted. Come up with a few hashtags, do a few protests and you can ruin anyone's career apparently. I hope there's a correction in the future against this mob mentality. It needed to happen but it needs be reined in. Whats the point of having a legal system at all. Strange times. I wonder if Louis CK is ever going to work again.

Well, there's a difference here: Louis CK admitted he was disrespectful and hurt someone.

Said it before several times in this thread: this reactions of the sponsors and teams are not about rape: they are about an attitude of apparent lack of respect for women.

Weinstien hasn't been convicted of anything either yet.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, there's a difference here: Louis CK admitted he was disrespectful and hurt someone.

Said it before several times in this thread: this reactions of the sponsors and teams are not about rape: they are about an attitude of apparent lack of respect for women.

Weinstien hasn't been convicted of anything either yet.

So did PJ and SO. Sure so did Craig Gilroy. His comments were the worst of the lot. He shouldn't be playing either if we're being consistent.

RabbleRouser2k

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, there's a difference here: Louis CK admitted he was disrespectful and hurt someone.

Said it before several times in this thread: this reactions of the sponsors and teams are not about rape: they are about an attitude of apparent lack of respect for women.

Weinstien hasn't been convicted of anything either yet.

Well, he emotionally hurt someone-he exposed himself and masturbated in front of women. He didn't physically hurt someone. He didn't try to rape anyone like Weinstein did, nor did he injure a woman like the two guys did (which they didn't dispute-the nature of how she got the injuries was what they disputed).

Yeah-they were made an example of, tbh-the whatsapp messages pretty much doomed em.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, there's a difference here: Louis CK admitted he was disrespectful and hurt someone.

Said it before several times in this thread: this reactions of the sponsors and teams are not about rape: they are about an attitude of apparent lack of respect for women.

Weinstien hasn't been convicted of anything either yet.

So did PJ and SO. Sure so did Craig Gilroy. His comments were the worst of the lot. He shouldn't be playing either if we're being consistent.

Fair point, I was unaware of the admission. What did they say and what was the reaction?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, there's a difference here: Louis CK admitted he was disrespectful and hurt someone.

Said it before several times in this thread: this reactions of the sponsors and teams are not about rape: they are about an attitude of apparent lack of respect for women.

Weinstien hasn't been convicted of anything either yet.

So did PJ and SO. Sure so did Craig Gilroy. His comments were the worst of the lot. He shouldn't be playing either if we're being consistent.

Fair point, I was unaware of the admission. What did they say and what was the reaction?

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

Looks like Jackson & Olding are going to have a hard time finding a club. The Sale rumours were true until a sponsor came in and pulled the plug https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sale-sponsor-contacts-club-over-jackson-and-olding-link-36872144.html


Given that Sale have taken on controversial players in the past and wont be on this occasion I would think that Jackson and Oldings options are even more limited now. Also every time a club rejects them their wage value goes even further down.

Jackson will be lucky to see £100k/annum the way things are going.
If he had anticipated this his court room steps statement would have been very different I imagine.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Fair point, I was unaware of the admission. What did they say and what was the reaction?

Well the obviously never admitted to rape. They both did small press releases immediately after the result of the case. SO's was very classy imo. PJ not so much. You could tell he was fuming underneath it all. He's since apologised more profusely but was considered too little, too late. PJ's statement is actually much worse than I remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl2u2rymtoU

facehugger99

I've been ahead of the curve on this for weeks now. They need to get out of professional rugby, re-train in a new career and spend the next few years with their heads down studying so that can start paying back their legal fees.

Is their punishment disproportionate?

Possibly, but we'll never know exactly what went on that evening.

However, it's no harm that people get to see the harsh consequences that arise from their appalling behavior - who knows it may have a very positive effect in getting other young men to change their behavior. So while for PJ and SO it may be a tad harsh, for society in general it could be a very good thing indeed.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

I've been ahead of the curve on this for weeks now. They need to get out of professional rugby, re-train in a new career and spend the next few years with their heads down studying so that can start paying back their legal fees.

Is their punishment disproportionate?

Possibly, but we'll never know exactly what went on that evening.

However, it's no harm that people get to see the harsh consequences that arise from their appalling behavior - who knows it may have a very positive effect in getting other young men to change their behavior. So while for PJ and SO it may be a tad harsh, for society in general it could be a very good thing indeed.

getting other young men and women to change their behavior.

If you are not prepared to advocate for the above ^ you are a part of the problem.
The quest for vengeance is very telling around this whole thing.

PlaneSpeeking

facehugger99 wrote: »

I've been ahead of the curve on this for weeks now. They need to get out of professional rugby, re-train in a new career and spend the next few years with their heads down studying so that can start paying back their legal fees.

Is their punishment disproportionate?

Possibly, but we'll never know exactly what went on that evening.

However, it's no harm that people get to see the harsh consequences that arise from their appalling behavior - who knows it may have a very positive effect in getting other young men to change their behavior. So while for PJ and SO it may be a tad harsh, for society in general it could be a very good thing indeed.

Can I assume that the girls who practically raped the male stripper at my sister in law's "bachelorette party" (yes I know!) should similarly be shamed, lose their livelihoods and face a lifetime of penury ?

PlaneSpeeking

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Can I assume that the girls who practically raped the male stripper at my sister in law's "bachelorette party" (yes I know!) should similarly be shamed, lose their livelihoods and face a lifetime of penury ?

Well, did he experience internal bleeding ?