'Free tolls' for electric vehicles?

n97 mini

Shefwedfan wrote: »

My point is we are not Norway. Constant posts about Norway are irrelvant.

They have oil money, We don't.

Over 50% of their exports are oil and gas. To be citing Norwegian advances in public initiatives is a bit like citing advances in gulf states.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

I know that’s impressive but they have effectively an endless supply of black gold up there paying for all that. We can’t expect to match that.


With all the issues this country has, EV incentives have to be measured and limited and tbf we have significant incentives already anyway.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

My point is we are not Norway. Constant posts about Norway are irrelvant.

They have oil money, We don't.

Norway don't have massive debt to pay back to dodgy europe. We do.

The amount of incentives in place is about rigt in my eyes....well if the Port tunnel was half price in rush hour then I would be happy

n97 mini wrote: »

Over 50% of their exports are oil and gas. To be citing Norwegian advances in public initiatives is a bit like citing advances in gulf states.

Every second article I read references Norway. Every EV related youtube channel references Norway.

They dont explain where that money comes from....oil.... they can afford to subsidise a Tesla to such a degree that it makes more sense to buy them than an ICE.

We will never be able to do that unless we increase taxes on ICE... and thats a big(impossible) ask from a very weak government.

If Norway lost their oil income in the morning you can be sure that the first thing they would pull to balance their budget would be EV incentives.

Our "EV budget" has gone from €5m to €10m in the last budget. Every extra €m is "robbing" it from somewhere else that needs it as much or more.

The real tipping point for EV's is going to have to happen "naturally" with the current incentives. New, longer range models being delivered in volume and better infrastructure (thats what the extra budget should be for) are required. People will buy then because it makes financial sense.

Free tolls and free motor tax wont push someone from a Tuscon/Qashqai to a Leaf. Niro and Kona should sell in droves if Hyundai and Kia can deliver in volume.... big if.

Shefwedfan

samih wrote: »

FYP there. Why does Europe get blamed because we were greedy here?

Have to blame someone :p:p:p:p

samih

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Have to blame someone :p:p:p:p

What good did the Romans ever do to us anyway, lol!

unkel

samih wrote: »

What good did the Romans ever do to us anyway, lol!

Give this country its name?

They set foot here, thought it was fookin' freezing and called it winterland (Hibernia), before they hurried back to England

Water John

Launch today at SEAI Show of website encouraging EV use. Anybody got details?

Ewan Hoosarmi

Water John wrote: »

Launch today at SEAI Show of website encouraging EV use. Anybody got details?

It redirects to the SEAI site, the electric vehicles section.

Patser

@kcross long post there.

I'd agree with a lot of what you said, yes the big tipping point will come as better EVs and a wider range come in. That'll be key to the switchover from ICE.

But a simple and relatively cheap measure like cutting tolls keeps EVs in the news as the coming thing. Nothing has yet been done in Ireland the disincentivise diesel beyond saying they'll be banned for sale in 12 years time. But diesel sales are plummeting because people see the writing on the wall, they know diesel is going to be hit soon. Look at how quickly diesel overtook petrol 10 years ago, just to save a few hundred a year on motor tax.

So every little hint that EVs will be cheaper, oh and that diesel will soon be hammered filters into the publics consciousness and alters demand.

berocore

KCross wrote: »

Every second article I read references Norway. Every EV related youtube channel references Norway.

They dont explain where that money comes from....oil.... they can afford to subsidise a Tesla to such a degree that it makes more sense to buy them than an ICE.

We will never be able to do that unless we increase taxes on ICE... and thats a big(impossible) ask from a very weak government.

If Norway lost their oil income in the morning you can be sure that the first thing they would pull to balance their budget would be EV incentives.

Our "EV budget" has gone from €5m to €10m in the last budget. Every extra €m is "robbing" it from somewhere else that needs it as much or more.

The real tipping point for EV's is going to have to happen "naturally" with the current incentives. New, longer range models being delivered in volume and better infrastructure (thats what the extra budget should be for) are required. People will buy then because it makes financial sense.

Free tolls and free motor tax wont push someone from a Tuscon/Qashqai to a Leaf. Niro and Kona should sell in droves if Hyundai and Kia can deliver in volume.... big if.

Very well said KCross

KCross

Patser wrote: »

But a simple and relatively cheap measure like cutting tolls keeps EVs in the news as the coming thing. Nothing has yet been done in Ireland the disincentivise diesel beyond saying they'll be banned for sale in 12 years time. But diesel sales are plummeting because people see the writing on the wall, they know diesel is going to be hit soon. Look at how quickly diesel overtook petrol 10 years ago, just to save a few hundred a year on motor tax.

So every little hint that EVs will be cheaper, oh and that diesel will soon be hammered filters into the publics consciousness and alters demand.

Absolutely.
Even though this new toll incentive is relatively small money it still counts and if you are a regular toll user then its another €500 out of your net salary in your pocket and it gives another round of publicity to EV's. I'm all for it.

It wont help me at all in this case. I dont use tolls regularly. The few times a year that I would use one wouldnt be worth the effort of having to get a tag to save €5!

Patser

KCross wrote: »

Absolutely.
Even though this new toll incentive is relatively small money it still counts and if you are a regular toll user then its another €500 out of your net salary in your pocket and it gives another round of publicity to EV's. I'm all for it.

It wont help me at all in this case. I dont use tolls regularly. The few times a year that I would use one wouldnt be worth the effort of having to get a tag to save €5!

Bingo. A regular daily commuter across m50 (not me, like you I'm a rare tolls user), who treats their car entirety as a tool but knows exactly how far they go every day - suddenly that'd be another big cost saving. Maybe it'll only bring on another few hundred EV users but it was still a talking point on radio and papers today. Perception of EV good goes up.

Also have to say, I've only had i3 just over a month. Lots of questions, lots of interest. People are curious about EVs but no one wants to jump first. Getting a spin in my car is turning around a lot of perceptions - everyone thought EVs were heavy with batteries and slow.

Personally I blame the Green Party - 10" years ago they were already pushing electric cars, at a time when the only 1 available was the G whiz - a truly awful yoke that Top Gear regularly mocked. Perception was electric = ****e.

Now its all Tesla is cool = EVs are future.

Trasna1

Patser wrote: »

@kcross long post there.

I'd agree with a lot of what you said, yes the big tipping point will come as better EVs and a wider range come in. That'll be key to the switchover from ICE.

But a simple and relatively cheap measure like cutting tolls keeps EVs in the news as the coming thing. Nothing has yet been done in Ireland the disincentivise diesel beyond saying they'll be banned for sale in 12 years time. But diesel sales are plummeting because people see the writing on the wall, they know diesel is going to be hit soon. Look at how quickly diesel overtook petrol 10 years ago, just to save a few hundred a year on motor tax.

So every little hint that EVs will be cheaper, oh and that diesel will soon be hammered filters into the publics consciousness and alters demand.

It wasn't just to save a few hundred a year on motor tax - diesel at the time offered virtually the same car/range but with a substantially better fuel economy and lower fuel cost. The change from petrol to diesel was easy because there was essentially no compromise.

Patser

Trasna1 wrote: »

It wasn't just to save a few hundred a year on motor tax - diesel at the time offered virtually the same car/range but with a substantially better fuel economy and lower fuel cost. The change from petrol to diesel was easy because there was essentially no compromise.

Diesels generally cost more to buy, are more expensive to service and their engines weigh a lot more than petrol equivalent (affecting road handling), and that's before we get into DPFs.

But yes cheap fuel and tax.

beauf

bk wrote: »

This bit is fair enough. They don't want any cars in the Port Tunnel at peak times. The PT is supposed to be just for trucks to and from the port and the odd bus/coach.....I agree they shouldn't have watered down the rest.

I use the tunnel often enough. Its generally not busy. The tiny % of EV's would make no difference to it. Most cars will never use it, as the traffic to get to the tunnel from the city center makes it not worth while. Any problem near the port though, and it backs up the tunnel. Which I suppose is really the issue with capacity.

If EV's became so popular to cause a problem on any toll, you could just roll back or remove the discount.

While this initiative is nice, its really not going to have any effect on EV sales. If you were doing the mileage that you were using tolls all the time, the range, charging availability or fuel costs will be the decider for you.

liamog

Should of announced it all free for 1 year, with a review when EV traffic hits 10% of journeys.

ELM327

Actually should not have bothered at all, this is a typical irish fudge.

portsky

Does anyone know when this takes effect? The announcement said early summer.
I am still being charged full cost so I wrote to Easy trip and they said it is not implemented yet, but they did not give me a planned start date.

Shefwedfan

portsky wrote: »

Does anyone know when this takes effect? The announcement said early summer.
I am still being charged full cost so I wrote to Easy trip and they said it is not implemented yet, but they did not give me a planned start date.

EasyTrip is not part of the government....

It will be announced by the government, at the moment I would guess they are trying to work out how to implement it with the relevant companies like EasyTrip etc

ELM327

As it's Ireland and a government measure, the important part (which budget does this come from) probably hasnt been worked out.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

As it's Ireland and a government measure, the important part (which budget does this come from) probably hasnt been worked out.

I would hope they would have worked that out before they even announced it....if not then they really are a shower of f**king idiots....

They would have to announce before going to EasyTrip as it would get out as soon as they mentioned to those external companies

My bets are EasyTrip etc are looking for some sort of admin charge.....they are probably trying to work out what that will be

ELM327

They really are a shower of idiots.

Round Cable

It is fully funded according to Shane Ross.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/toll-charges-to-be-halved-for-electric-cars-36807865.html

ELM327

Round Cable wrote: »

It is fully funded according to Shane Ross.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/toll-charges-to-be-halved-for-electric-cars-36807865.html

1 - doesnt' say who is funding... in all likelihood it will come from the €10million , which has to fund the SEAI grants, the VRT, and the charger grant already, and the charger upgrades


2 - it's not fully funded, it's "halvely funded" :pac:

Patser

But it's such a cheap measure to fund. Even taking the most extreme figures from the Indo article above - which the headline gets wrong.

A commuter doing 2 trips a day across M50, 48 weeks racks up €1000 a year.

Now going to absolute extreme savings of 75%, that's a cost to Govt of €750 year, multiplied by 3,500 electric cars (again from article) = €2,625,000

So if every single EV driver in Ireland spent their time going back and forth over M50 at off peak times to rack up maximum savings, it'll cost the Govt about €2.5 million. In all reality it'll be a fraction of that.

ELM327

But that is rational thought based on sound calculations.
These are government ministers, they don't deal in that.

If it were any of us on here, the calculations would have been done (for free tolls, not this irish fudge solution) months ago and already released. We really do bring a new definition to "half assed" in this country.

Round Cable

Patser wrote: »

Now going to absolute extreme savings of 75%, that's a cost to Govt of €750 year, multiplied by 3,500 electric cars (again from article) = €2,625,000

Plus there is a maximum saving limit for a private owner of €500 per year, so it's even less again.

I don't think this incentive will move many people over to EVs. Nice for those who travel the M50 daily, and that's about it.

ELM327

Round Cable wrote: »

Plus there is a maximum saving limit for a private owner of €500 per year, so it's even less again.

I don't think this incentive will move many people over to EVs. Nice for those who travel the M50 daily, and that's about it.

That's the problem.
Its a nice couple of hundred quid for existing owners.
It's not enough to tip people into EV ownership, If free fuel hasn't worked, 1.05 off the m50 toll isnt going to do it.


Free motor tax, free tolls, free fuel, for a defined period of 5 years would have made people change.


"Cheap" isn't enough of a push/pull in this one, we need "Free".

Round Cable

ELM327 wrote: »

Free motor tax, free tolls, free fuel, for a defined period of 5 years would have made people change.


"Cheap" isn't enough of a push/pull in this one, we need "Free".

Completely agree, it would hardly have been a bank breaker for the government to do this, especially compared with €5k off VRT and €5k SEAI grant per car, that they do offer.

From a marketing point of view, it would have been great for EVs.

unkel

Patser wrote: »

A commuter doing 2 trips a day across M50, 48 weeks racks up €1000 a year.

Now going to absolute extreme savings of 75%, that's a cost to Govt of €750 year, multiplied by 3,500 electric cars (again from article) = €2,625,000

The vast majority of M50 toll commuters do so during peak time, so will only get 50% off. There will also be a slight increase of EV use of the bridge because it is now cheaper. I know myself, going between Lucan and Blanchardstown I sometimes take the back roads, off peak and if I'm in no hurry. It's a nice drive and it saves me the €5 for a return trip. If I got 75% off, I probably would take the M50 all the time though.

Patser

Agreed that it's a minimum saving for most, but as I said earlier in the thread, it is good cheap measure to reinforce the idea that electric is good, ICE (diesel especially) is bad. Just in general conversation I hear people all getting scared off diesel, knowing it's about to be hammered - and sales of diesel are plummeting, even though nothing has actually happened.

If the 2008 tax rate on cars showed us, never underestimate what sort of sea change in ownership can happen just to save a few hundred a year.