Expensive Putters, Irons and Drivers

stockdam

What are your views on paying over €300 for a putter?

I was involved in a discussion about whether an expensive putter makes any difference to your game. I got the usual comment that the putter is the most widely used club and so it makes sense to buy an expensive one. Yes the putter is the most used club but that doesn't mean that you need to pay lots of money for one.

As a teenager I spent a lot of time practicing including many hours on the practice green. I had access to every putter in the pro shop and I tried hundreds of them. There was absolutely no correlation between my putting and the price of the putters. Of all the ones that I tried, the two that worked best for me were a lady's putter and one with a wooden head. Both of these sat best for me and I could judge pace best with them on fast greens. Both putters came from the 2nd hand bin and would have been no more than €50 each.

Maybe others will have a different experience but for me I use a putter that gives me confidence but 90% or so is about my confidence and my stroke. An expensive putter won't change your stroke but it may give you some confidence; however I would argue that there's a putter in the 2nd hand bin that would work equally as well for you.

Thinking about it, the same argument applies to expensive irons and drivers. None of them can correct for a poor swing yet a lot of people think that a new driver costing €500 will change their games. I do think that driver and iron technology helps a bit more than putter technology but there are many decent clubs around that are several years old which perform as good as the newest models.

I do admit that it is tempting to buy the latest shiny model but the high fades quick quickly and the new driver "needs" to be replaced after a year. If you really do want to change clubs frequently then go for ones that are a couple of years old........after all they were the bees knees when they came out.

ChippingSodbury

stockdam wrote: »

I got the usual comment that the putter is the most widely used club and so it makes sense to buy an expensive one. Yes the putter is the most used club but that doesn't mean that you need to pay lots of money for one.

Technology has a huge impact on drivers/ fairways etc (esp. the quality of the shaft) and a lesser impact on irons. Putters are not so much about technology as how you feel with it. A 6' putt will be holed equally well with a €20 dunlop as with a €300 Scotty: it's all about what you feel comfortable and confident with. Obviously, there are some putter that will suit you and others that won;t: price should be one of the last considerations.

stockdam

Yes shafts are important in the longer clubs but the technology of the heads hasn't changed a lot for several years so you would be better getting a cheaper head and a good shaft that suits you rather than buying the latest model off the shelf.

As for putters, I agree that price is the last thing to consider (unless it's out of your range). A Scotty Cameron is a great putter but won't do much for your putting so for me it's not necessary to buy one. Length of shaft, lie angle, head type, head weight etc are all important for a putter and you can find something that works for you without paying big money.

charlieIRL

A few years ago Jim Furyk won the fedex cup using a $39 putter!!

Link here

Pinn Hedde

It's a mental thing in my opinion ...if you believe a certain putter expensive or otherwise "is for you" then it will help your mental approach.If on the other hand you believe that a putter or driver whether expensive or not does NOT suit you ...then my friend it will be a self fulfilling prophecy !

stockdam

I think Ben Crenshaw played with a cheap putter as did Hubert Green.

ShivasIrons

Why have a rolex when you can get a casio? Why have a Bentley when you can have a ford fiesta? Why wear Gucci when you can wear Dunnes?

Brand and lifestyle matter to some and not to others. It's your choice to make

valoren

Putters sell for $300 because people are willing to pay $300 for them I guess.
It's like an itch that needs to be scratched I guess for some.
They don't need them, they just want them.
I think Mizuno blades are beautiful.
They would do nothing for my golfing ability so I wouldn't dream of purchasing.

My brother spent €270 for a Scotty Cameron 6 years ago.
Then a year later, he wanted another Scotty Cameron in the same product line that was 'offset'.

He was selling the 'old' perfectly lovely Scotty for €85. I offered him €70 cash and I've had it since.
It does the job and certainly doesn't endow me with magical putting abilities whatsoever.
Just like every other club in the bag.

stockdam

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Why have a rolex when you can get a casio? Why have a Bentley when you can have a ford fiesta? Why wear Gucci when you can wear Dunnes?

Brand and lifestyle matter to some and not to others. It's your choice to make

Correct and I was not implying that anyone has the right to tell anyone what they can buy. When you buy an expensive watch you aren't getting a lot more than a cheaper watch as far as functionality is concerned but if you appreciate the quality then that's fine.

Similarly a Scotty Cameron won't do anything more than a much cheaper putter but it does have more style and quality.

The point I was making though is that somebody was arguing that they should spend over €300 for a putter because they used it a lot more. I would agree if they meant that it gave them a nice feeling when they used it but not if they meant that it improved their game (which is what they meant).

I'm not against buying what you want to but be aware that you aren't buying a better game.........just a nice piece of engineering/art.

FixdePitchmark

I understand that it is all about choice and people can do what they like.

I guess there is an argument about the mental side - and if people think that 300 Euro putter or 500 euro driver gives them a mental edge - then fair enough

But we all know it is all a load of nonsense once you get to a certain level - quality / material and finish are practically the same.

I'd have a 250 euro putter in the Odyssey range and the face insert fell off - that is fairly shocking.
Some of the Taylor made stuff a few years ago was well over 400 euro and also were poor quality

Some of the Callaway drivers are now over 500 euro - madness.

So there seems to be an excessive inflation going on with top level golf equipment.

A top of the range wedge was about 109 euro 4/5 years ago - the same wedge with no technology change is 160 euro now - conceptually wedges have not changed in this time or even in the last 40 years.

Russman

Yeah, I think, bottom line is, you can’t buy a game.

There is a perverse logic though in spending €500 on a driver you’ll use 10 to 14 times in a round while being reluctant to spend half that on a putter that might be used 30/40 times in a round. Obviously it’s not as simple as that - the driver sets you up for the rest of the hole etc., and there’s a certain machismo about the driver, you hit it far, you swing it fast, it’s masculine, while a putter.....sure it’s only for tippy tappy strokes, anything at all will do.
I’m not for a second suggesting someone should spend €250 on a putter, far from it. If you can afford it, and want to buy a Scotty, fire away. It might be prettier and beautifully finished, but it isn’t objectively any “better” than another putter. Subjectively you might feel better about pulling it from your bag and therefore get some placebo effect but meh, that’s about it imo.
Even with drivers, I think they reached what they could do with club heads several years ago, just look at Rick Shiels’ 5 year driver tests on YouTube - there’s little or nothing in it.

Personally I’m starting my 6th summer with a €89 Odyssey I bought in 2013. Before that I used a retail Scotty I bought in 2007, and before that I had an old beryllium copper Ping Anser that I bought new in the very early 90s. So basically 3 putters in 25 years apart from a two month stint with a 2-Ball when they were all the rage. Do I putt any different with them ? Not really, numbers would suggest I’m maybe quarter to half a shot per round better with my current one, but it’s not a definitive causal relationship. I’ve probably had 15 drivers in that time though !! 😂 😂 (none of them go any further either !!)

FixdePitchmark

Russman wrote: »

Yeah, I think, bottom line is, you can’t buy a game.

Personally I’m starting my 6th summer with a €89 Odyssey I bought in 2013. Before that I used a retail Scotty I bought in 2007, and before that I had an old beryllium copper Ping Anser that I bought new in the very early 90s. So basically 3 putters in 25 years apart from a two month stint with a 2-Ball when they were all the rage. Do I putt any different with them ? Not really, numbers would suggest I’m maybe quarter to half a shot per round better with my current one, but it’s not a definitive causal relationship. I’ve probably had 15 drivers in that time though !! �� �� (none of them go any further either !!)

I would have to put my hands up and say - I do think my bad drives go further with the newer drivers. ( I think). I look at the face and you can see balls off near the toe and they are fairly good drives - that is impressive technology.

But there is another figure that highlights the strange in inflation going on. 100 euro + 5 years ago was big money on a putter.

You'd be struggling to get a very very similar putter now less than 200 euro - what has happened ?

Russman

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I would have to put my hands up and say - I do think my bad drives go further with the newer drivers. ( I think). I look at the face and you can see balls off near the toe and they are fairly good drives - that is impressive technology.

But there is another figure that highlights the strange in inflation going on. 100 euro + 5 years ago was big money on a putter.

You'd be struggling to get a very very similar putter now less than 200 euro - what has happened ?

I suppose my bad drives might be a little straighter now, but distance ? I’m not so sure tbh. There’s a spot on my course that I’ve used to hit balls from if practicing, and definitely there’s no difference now compared to say even back as far as the old Taylormade R580 days, which were, what, 13/14 years ago ? Apart from the user being older !!

But you’re right about the inflation. Especially as you mention, with wedges, €100/€119 was a top end wedge a few years ago, now they’re €159 and you mostly can’t even get forged anymore, it’s almost all cast wedges now.
I guess the equipment companies need to push their products. Everyone needs a gap wedge now but it’s only because lofts have decreased so your PW is a 9i from years ago. Your modern set of 4-PW is really much the same as 3i-9i from 15 years ago, except you now need to buy a separate gap wedge.

FixdePitchmark

Russman wrote: »

I suppose my bad drives might be a little straighter now, but distance ? I’m not so sure tbh. There’s a spot on my course that I’ve used to hit balls from if practicing, and definitely there’s no difference now compared to say even back as far as the old Taylormade R580 days, which were, what, 13/14 years ago ? Apart from the user being older !!

But you’re right about the inflation. Especially as you mention, with wedges, €100/€119 was a top end wedge a few years ago, now they’re €159 and you mostly can’t even get forged anymore, it’s almost all cast wedges now.
I guess the equipment companies need to push their products. Everyone needs a gap wedge now but it’s only because lofts have decreased so your PW is a 9i from years ago. Your modern set of 4-PW is really much the same as 3i-9i from 15 years ago, except you now need to buy a separate gap wedge.

Is there a chance we are getting older - but the clubs are keeping us to the same spots

I got a M2 and drove two greens last season I had never hit before.

But there are too many variables at play - conditions - your own swing - was doing core work at the time.

I do sense there is an improvement with the drivers - lower spin when you do catch them with lower spin can do incredible stuff and I've seen it. Recorded a few drives over 350 yards (roll etc) - so something bizarre going on with that combination. But hard to hit.

Rick is saying that here that there was a change in 2014.

But the market is playing around with 15 yards for 500 euro or so is nuts.

backspin.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I got a M2 and drove two greens last season I had never hit before.

I think the drivers have got easier to hit. I love my M2 and i'm driving better than i ever have with it. I was fit for it, it sits well for my eye and i like the weight and feel of it so it was a great investment.

Regarding putters i think its down to feel and balance of the putter. Does it feel good to you and do you like the look of it, are confident with it etc. Price isn't really a big issue. Some people like shiny new things. We see it in all other areas of life, houses, cars fancy, clothes, i phones. Golf is no different. I would never give someone a hard time if they spend a fortune on their golf gear. If golf is their hobby let them at it.

Russman

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Is there a chance we are getting older - but the clubs are keeping us to the same spots

I got a M2 and drove two greens last season I had never hit before.

But there are too many variables at play - conditions - your own swing - was doing core work at the time.

I do sense there is an improvement with the drivers - lower spin when you do catch them with lower spin can do incredible stuff and I've seen it. Recorded a few drives over 350 yards (roll etc) - so something bizarre going on with that combination. But hard to hit.

Rick is saying that here that there was a change in 2014.

But the market is playing around with 15 yards for 500 euro or so is nuts.

Nah, definitely not getting older, must be something else !!

Agree on too many variables at play to be definitive, but if there is a difference, to me it’s fairly negligible. Or I guess what I mean is that I’ve never had a eureka moment or a shot where I thought a newer club is giving me something (meaningful) extra over an older one. Well, maybe two I can think of, the original
taylormade R360 driver back in 2002 was a wow moment for me, and the RBZ fairway woods in 2012 were a huge leap also. Ironically from 2004 to 2012 I didn’t have a taylormade club in the bag at all !

Try Rick’s Ping video, I think the difference is 3 yards or something !

stockdam

Yes I see club prices increasing especially the top end ones. Maybe it's an effect where if the club is loadsa dosh then people feel that it must be good.

As for drivers, I play with a Titleist 905R which was first introduced in 2006. I hit it fairly decently but a little high and a little bit too much spin. I don't get a lot of roll from it which does result in longish high drives that pitch and stop quickly. I find that I have to draw the ball to get more distance. I am toying with the idea of looking at a lower spin driver that may be more forgiving (the 905R hits the ball as far as any driver but maybe not as good for off centre hits).

I looked at a Taylormade M1 in good condition but the seller was looking for £180 for it which I consider to be too much for a 2 year old driver. I hit an R11 several years ago and was surprised how well it went when not hit perfectly.
Looking at some Youtube reviews, the 905R holds up well against a lot of the more modern drivers and it sits so well that I don't want to change it. I'll have to try different shafts etc and against a modern driver but for a driver that is 10 years old it still is a great driver.

Webbs

I recently changed from a R9 Supertri which is what 8 years or so old at this stage and was off the shelf with regards shaft. Unfortunately the driver broke so couldnt do a direct comparison when getting fitted.

However the driver I went and got was Ping G30 with a shaft suitable for my swing speed and it is certainly a eureka moment over my last driver, straighter, noticeably longer and more forgiving with better ball flight. However the difference between it and the G and G400 was negligible certainly not worth forking out an extra 200 euro more.

So for me its probably a combo of getting fitted with correct shaft and head combo and numbers for newer drivers all roughly the same.

So in response to the OP for me, the most expensive didnt mean much improvement over a slightly older model even though I loved look of expensive G400. IF money was no object I probably would have gone with the 400 as someone else pointed out its like choosing between an Opel or BMW both get you to destination but....

Insecurity Guard

valoren wrote: »

They don't need them, they just want them.

I think that's it in a nutshell. The manufacturers' trick then is to make us think we need them.

AFAIK the average male handicap is around 15 or 16 (?) and that hasn't changed in many years, despite the huge improvements in shafts and club design. The clubs may indeed be improving, but our swings don't appear to be.

Whiplash85

recently changed from a Talyormade white smoke putter to an Odyssey O works putter. The replacement was probably cheaper than I bought the original for. So far I have noticed an incredible difference. it feels so much different and has improved my putting exponentially. Now admittedly my putting stroke was horrendous to the point I missed 3 and four footers regularily. My wrists would hinge through impact and pull the ball left of the hole. Now they are rolling in dead centre and I dont have the same sense of dread. Its small things that can make a difference. Thicker grip. longer shaft, target lines on the face of the putter. Its amazing how subtle changes can bring about massive improvements.

ShivasIrons

PXG irons are worth hitting, they feel amazing!!