Cork developments

Roger Hassenforder

cgcsb wrote: »

In fairness Cork County City Council's redesign of the road is a shambles, regardless of the resident's gardens,

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Wilton Road's not really a suburb: exactly as you say it's right between all these major trip generators. At a guess it'd be the prime place to start with a congestion charge.
It's on possibly the best bus route in the country. And most people from outside the city do not use Wilton Road to access CUH. Most of them do not use Wilton Road to access UCC or CIT either. It's primarily used for people to get to the city centre from the west, and for people to cross the city between North and South.

Whether youre right or wrong, i dont know, but If this goes ahead, it will become a major thoroughfare in the western side of the city. If we have learned anything ftom Irish traffic planning, trying to ease a congested route by trying to make the traffic flow faster, will result in more traffic using it, as it has become more attractive, and back to square one.

Wilton Rd is very residential, either side of it (excepting the Pres grounds). I imagine air pollution (NOX/SOX) from traffic is already a local issue. Putting more traffic there will just exacerbate it.

Its incentivising less car use we should be doing. Be interesting to see how vocal the City Councillors are about this. North Ring Rd is urgently needed.

Did someone seriousky reference DuPlantier? What a gobshîte.

Markcheese

Would it be a better bet to improve the current north ring.. And access from blarney area to ballincolig bypass, as well as better orbital bus routes and park and rides... Rather than waiting decades for a new North ring..

cgcsb

Markcheese wrote: »

Would it be a better bet to improve the current north ring.. And access from blarney area to ballincolig bypass, as well as better orbital bus routes and park and rides... Rather than waiting decades for a new North ring..

It'd be better to improve the Wilton road with priority for cycling walking and buses being the key design criteria, not for making 2 car lanes and whatever's left over going to sustainable modes.

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

Cos, yeah spending mega billions (and it will be) to increase car use is exactly what the city needs... (although, making wilton road wider will do little to nothing for traffic coming from the North city...)

So your goal, for people not wanting to drive into the city at all is?

All those people commuting through the city, not stopping in it, all those heavy goods going to Apple etc, all that traffic having to come down to Dunkettle when they want to go to Blackpool or beyond?
All that traffic going to Mallow that has to come up through Mayfield?

The city should/can be fine without traffic because the vast vast majority of traffic in there does not want to be there.

Roger Hassenforder

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Whether youre right or wrong, i dont know, but If this goes ahead, it will become a major thoroughfare in the western side of the city. If we have learned anything ftom Irish traffic planning, trying to ease a congested route by trying to make the traffic flow faster, will result in more traffic using it, as it has become more attractive, and back to square one.

Wilton Rd is very residential, either side of it (excepting the Pres grounds). I imagine air pollution (NOX/SOX) from traffic is already a local issue. Putting more traffic there will just exacerbate it.

Its incentivising less car use we should be doing. Be interesting to see how vocal the City Councillors are about this. North Ring Rd is urgently needed.

Did someone seriousky reference DuPlantier? What a gobshîte.

It won't matter a toss as the bottle neck is not the Wilton Road, in general. It is the roundabout at the hospital, and Victoria Cross/Wellington bridge.

Roger Hassenforder

Id love to see more enforcement there, the amount of fcukers shooting down the bus lane, pretending their going into wilton gardens, and going straight..

Was good forva while, seems to have dropped off

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

Would it be a better bet to improve the current north ring.. And access from blarney area to ballincolig bypass, as well as better orbital bus routes and park and rides... Rather than waiting decades for a new North ring..

You mean shunt more heavy goods and commuter traffic through residential Mayfield/Silversprings and into the already messed up Blackpool bypass down the middle of another residential area at the commons road sunbeam area?

Roger Hassenforder

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It won't matter a toss as the bottle neck is not the Wilton Road, in general. It is the roundabout at the hospital, and Victoria Cross/Wellington bridge.

Its like trying to squash a 4lbs shîte into a 2lbs bag

opus

Guessing this is to give the Millerd St apartment development an entrance onto Henry St.

BUNK1982

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Surely being told your garden is going to be affected (by as much as a few meters) automatically makes it a CPO. I'm pretty sure any affected NIMBYs get a nice chunk of dough for their troubles. I'm open to correction on that.

How much are they looking to take off the front gardens?

I had a look on Google Maps there - those are big front gardens (and back) and in many cases fit 4 cars are parked side by side.

olearydc

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Surely being told your garden is going to be affected (by as much as a few meters) automatically makes it a CPO. I'm pretty sure any affected NIMBYs get a nice chunk of dough for their troubles. I'm open to correction on that.

Some of these houses are going to lose as much as 7 meters...(22 feet)
Were as before they could look out onto their garden, it may now be the case that they will be just looking at traffic. none stop

Some folks will be slightly affected and others will lose their parking spaces. Where before they could turn around their car to enter the main road going stright out, now they will have to reverse out (I have reversed into a small car park off the main road before -- other car drives not impressed). also they cant park anywhere else

Its hourses for courses. they bought their house and space in front because it suited them. of course they will be annoyed if that space is removed. Maybe better for other folks but not for the people who actully own those gardens

olearydc

BUNK1982 wrote: »

How much are they looking to take off the front gardens?

I had a look on Google Maps there - those are big front gardens (and back) and in many cases fit 4 cars are parked side by side.

Average of 2 meters. Some 4 to 7 meters
Presently space to turn car(s) around. The average family having 2 cars with visitors space which is normal. There is absolutely no on-street parking anywhere except at/on their own land

When they take that space away, ability to turn around is gone
Hard to see them reversing in or backing out onto the main road

snotboogie

olearydc wrote: »

Average of 2 meters. Some 4 to 7 meters
Presently space to turn car(s) around. The average family having 2 cars with visitors space which is normal. There is absolutely no on-street parking anywhere except at/on their own land

When they take that space away, ability to turn around is gone
Hard to see them reversing in or backing out onto the main road

Would they not be backing out to the far less busy cycle and bus lanes before straightening up and joining the traffic?

snotboogie

snotboogie wrote: »

Would they not be backing out to the far less busy cycle and bus lanes before straightening up and joining the traffic?

That is not safe, you are backing a vehicle (blind) into vulnerable traffic.

olearydc

snotboogie wrote: »

Would they not be backing out to the far less busy cycle and bus lanes before straightening up and joining the traffic?

https://mocktheorytest.com/resources/is-it-illegal-to-back-out-onto-a-main-road/

While it’s not illegal to reverse out of a driveway onto a main road, it’s not advisable. Reversing into the driveway is a better option as you control the traffic flow behind you on the busy road. However, the safest option is if you can turn around in the driveway.

When reversing out onto a street, you need over twice as much time as pulling out forwards. In busy traffic, it could mean that there is just not a sufficient gap for you to do this safely without another motorist being courteous and letting you in. Performing this manoeuvre could cause other vehicles to brake or try to swerve around you, meaning they change lanes. It all increases the risk of an accident.

Turning aroung in their own drive is better for them - -especially with that Compo culture in place
===

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html
Quote:
(2) A driver shall not reverse on to a major road from another road, or whenever his vision is such that to reverse would be likely to endanger other traffic or pedestrians.

fonecrusher1

olearydc wrote: »

Some of these houses are going to lose as much as 7 meters...(22 feet)
Were as before they could look out onto their garden, it may now be the case that they will be just looking at traffic. none stop

Some folks will be slightly affected and others will lose their parking spaces. Where before they could turn around their car to enter the main road going stright out, now they will have to reverse out (I have reversed into a small car park off the main road before -- other car drives not impressed). also they cant park anywhere else

Its hourses for courses. they bought their house and space in front because it suited them. of course they will be annoyed if that space is removed. Maybe better for other folks but not for the people who actully own those gardens

Ok fair enough but is it not likely those most severely affected will get compensation? Does anyone know is that the case? I'm genuinely interested. What i'm getting at is if you got a very nice pay out as compensation i'm sure you could live with it.

snotboogie

Deleted User wrote: »

That is not safe, you are backing a vehicle (blind) into vulnerable traffic.

How would they be blind?

blindsider

olearydc wrote: »

Average of 2 meters. Some 4 to 7 meters
Presently space to turn car(s) around. The average family having 2 cars with visitors space which is normal. There is absolutely no on-street parking anywhere except at/on their own land

When they take that space away, ability to turn around is gone
Hard to see them reversing in or backing out onto the main road

Normal for whom? 3 cars + room to turn? That's a lot of space.

The current plans may not be the answer - have the local residents developed an alternative plan? I'd rather be involved in the solution TBH.

Getting kids out to hold dodgy placards is poor.

I wonder how many of the houses are owner/occupied>

Finally, as others have said - build the bloody NRR!

sheff_

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Whether youre right or wrong, i dont know, but If this goes ahead, it will become a major thoroughfare in the western side of the city.

It has always been a major thoroughfare into the city, probably the main one from the south west - even more so before the south ring was built. Until fairly recently wilton road was still marked as the n71. This has never been a quiet residential street like in the adjacent estates.

olearydc

I agree

It is a lot of space, when you have no parking on a road, anywhere - -you really do need it...once that land is taking away, some folks wont be able to get 1 car to turn around

They did not have time to developed an alternative plan as I belive they only got notice a few months back so thats why they are highlighting it now

There are a few student accomandation places around but many are family homes

snotboogie

snotboogie wrote: »

How would they be blind?

Because there will be a wall/pillar/hedge blocking their view up the road. Reversing out of a tight driveway is always dangerous.

When you drive out forward your window normally clears sight line obstructions before your bonnet enters the carriageway. Reversing generally has your boot out on the road before you have a clear line of sight.

Roger Hassenforder

sheff_ wrote: »

It has always been a major thoroughfare into the city, probably the main one from the south west - even more so before the south ring was built. Until fairly recently wilton road was still marked as the n71. This has never been a quiet residential street like in the adjacent estates.

Thats what i thought

sheff_

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because there will be a wall/pillar/hedge blocking their view up the road. Reversing out of a tight driveway is always dangerous.

When you drive out forward your window normally clears sight line obstructions before your bonnet enters the carriageway. Reversing generally has your boot out on the road before you have a clear line of sight.

So reverse into the driveway like so many residents of Glasheen Road (as a local example) do. Unlike Glasheen Road though the Wilton Road residents won’t even be holding up the busy traffic lane while they do this.

Roger Hassenforder

sheff_ wrote: »

So reverse into the driveway like so many residents of Glasheen Road (as a local example) do. Unlike Glasheen Road though the Wilton Road residents won’t even be holding up the busy traffic lane while they do this.

You get the odd car reversing in, holds up the show a lot.
In fairness, Glasheen rd is a lot less busy, has some on street parking (in parts) , more side streets with parking, and the gardens are about 10" to 6' long.

Again, I am far from against this development BUT I can appreciate their anger.

Markcheese

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You mean shunt more heavy goods and commuter traffic through residential Mayfield/Silversprings and into the already messed up Blackpool bypass down the middle of another residential area at the commons road sunbeam area?

When do you think a new North ring will be built, pick a decade? We're still waiting for a limerick road...

Personally I don't want to put more cars onto a ring road, I want the city to join up, and improve public transport.. I dont think the city can do everything.. Build high-rise offices and develop the docklands, spend its money on trams and billions on new ring roads to allow low density development miles out of town...
The N 40 already backs up at Douglas and kinsale road, that won't be fixed by dunkettle...

Markcheese

olearydc wrote: »

Average of 2 meters. Some 4 to 7 meters
Presently space to turn car(s) around. The average family having 2 cars with visitors space which is normal. There is absolutely no on-street parking anywhere except at/on their own land

When they take that space away, ability to turn around is gone
Hard to see them reversing in or backing out onto the main road

Backing out onto a bus lane, and then joining the traffic is is doable though.. And that bus lane can still carry far more passengers than a lane of cars

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

When do you think a new North ring will be built, pick a decade? We're still waiting for a limerick road...

Personally I don't want to put more cars onto a ring road, I want the city to join up, and improve public transport.. I dont think the city can do everything.. Build high-rise offices and develop the docklands, spend its money on trams and billions on new ring roads to allow low density development miles out of town...
The N 40 already backs up at Douglas and kinsale road, that won't be fixed by dunkettle...

A ring road is not a city build, it is an NTA build and is for pulling traffic out of the city. You do get that the vast majority of the traffic in the city does not need to be there at all but has to pass through.

hans aus dtschl

Padraig Mor wrote: »

So, the residents are losing a significant portion of their family property to facilitate the private transport choice of a small minority?

Lol what do you suggest: removing all cars from Wilton road?
A reminder , the hierarchy of use is pedestrian>cycle>bus>private motors.

hans aus dtschl

quietsailor wrote: »

I agree with the need for the road widening in principle but where exactly do ye all think the residents cars are now going to be parked? That is a high congestion area with the hospital staff / patients / visitors looking for parking as well.

For that matter a lot of those houses are house shares for medical staff and students, they all have a car each so four to six cars per house, depending on bedroom numbers. Do you think these cars will magically disappear? Think of the practicalities of living there when you go home outside the city at the weekend.

Thanks for making the point: that's exactly one of the biggest issues in the city area. Private car use is off the wall completely for a modern city.