Cork developments

leahyl

opus wrote: »

Hopefully the old Odlums building will get redeveloped as it could be fantastic. Definitely worth preserving unlike the Sextant (imho)

Was thinking the same thing; got a pang of sadness when I thought of it being knocked :pac::)

Markcheese

leahyl wrote: »

Was thinking the same thing; got a pang of sadness when I thought of it being knocked :pac::)

Isn't it listed? (Well the frontage anyway), it'd be a pretty crap architect who couldnt include that frontage into a landmark building...
The halls grain silo, well that's different,
I'm sure it could be kept, and I wouldn't be against keeping it if there was a decent use for it, but Its probably coming down, and I doubt there'll be too many tears..

leahyl

Markcheese wrote: »

Isn't it listed? (Well the frontage anyway), it'd be a pretty crap architect who couldnt include that frontage into a landmark building...
The halls grain silo, well that's different,
I'm sure it could be kept, and I wouldn't be against keeping it if there was a decent use for it, but Its probably coming down, and I doubt there'll be too many tears..

Don't know. It probably is, I was just thinking what a shame it would be if it were to be knocked but probably unlikely.

fonecrusher1

questionmark? wrote: »

Great that it's OCP as they usually mean business.

Sure didn't they build Robocop in only a few months.

Captainsatnav

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Sure didn't they build Robocop in only a few months.

Nice

trackrunner

https /postimg.cc/7JNKMJf9

https /postimg.cc/Fffn5KBF

Farranlea Road student accommodation. Due for completion summer 2020.

Can't embed images or post proper links as new user so delete the space.

snotboogie

trackrunner wrote: »

https /postimg.cc/7JNKMJf9

https /postimg.cc/Fffn5KBF

Due for completion summer 2020

Can't embed images or post proper links as new user so delete the space.

That’s the Faranlee Rd Student Accom?

trackrunner

snotboogie wrote: »

That’s the Faranlee Rd Student Accom?

Oh ya is. Sorry thought I mentioned that 🙈

Apogee

Irish Examiner wrote:

A 1960s former office block in one of Cork’s most desirable residential areas is to undergo a €10m conversion into a local authority downsizing housing project.City councillors have sanctioned an amended Part 8 plan to adapt and extend the former Springville House in Blackrock, and then change its use to facilitate the development of 35 residential units within the fabric of the existing office building.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/former-cork-office-block-to-undergo-10m-conversion-into-local-authority-downsizing-housing-project-935736.html

Apogee

"This cover page from a 2008 submission from Origin to city council gives you an idea of the size of the landbank. White blocks are the subject of the deal announced today (view is south - Odlum’s bldg to the centre)"



credit: https://twitter.com/EoinBearla/status/1148662938489827328

snotboogie

Very interesting examiner article: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-may-see-its-largest-ever-single-property-deal-which-could-pave-way-for-docklands-development-935812.html

Highlights:

“But OCP's vision for the site at the centre of today's deal, which is spread across several Origin landbanks running east along the south docks from Albert Quay, will include offices, retail and commercial elements along with 40% set aside for residential.”

“Details of another project in the heart of the city’s docklands, which includes proposals for a near 30-storey skyscraper on the former Custom House quay site, is expected within days“

“OCP hopes to begin sealing the second block of Navigation Square by September before starting work on the third of the development’s planned four blocks early next year.”

The 40 storey now seems revised down to nearly 30 stories. I’d take a landmark tower there at 25-30 storeys as long as they’ll actually build it, even if it is significantly smaller than we expected. Navigation Square seems like it may face around a 6 month lag in construction between phase two and phase three, a bit concerning but with OCP splashing the cash on the most expensive land acquisition in the history of the city they must be confident of getting tenants at their current site. Overall very exciting times and we should be in for a big 5 months to finish the year with two student developments just started, Crows Nest set to start at the end of the summer (finally?), the Parnell Place hotel and The Prism both promising to start before the end of the year and a probable disorderly Brexit to throw everything up in the air. I’ve heald off on the Q2 summary due to an insane work schedule and I’ll now give the custom house tower till the end of next week before I’ll update, unless I get an unexpected burst of free time before then.

Apogee

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2019/07/10/de-wednesday-papers-325/

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

“But OCP's vision for the site at the centre of today's deal, which is spread across several Origin landbanks running east along the south docks from Albert Quay, will include offices, retail and commercial elements along with 40% set aside for residential.”

This bit surprised me. I was assuming when I heard about this first that the primary driver would be residential, in light of JCD's planned apartment block on Albert Quay, in that with all the office space there was a clear lack of residential development in the city. Although, in fairness it is a massive site.

This + the Glenveagh site are the first move into the actual Docklands east of Albert Quay. It is imperative now that the local area plans be published. What is taking them so long is mystifying. They are beyond critical for the city and there seems to be no impetus whatsoever to advance them. Whatever about CMATS and it's comical timescales, the City Council have total control over these LAPs.

I’ve heald off on the Q2 summary due to an insane work schedule and I’ll now give the custom house tower till the end of next week before I’ll update, unless I get an unexpected burst of free time before then.

With all the news this week it's a blessing in disguise it's been delayed. All the best with the work schedule and many thanks for taking the time to keep the updates going.

marno21

Roads update Q2 2019:

N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange: Tender for this project has been awarded to Sisk. This was a two stage process where Sisk undertook preliminary works before beginning the main project, however due to worse than expected ground conditions on the site, the contractor will not be able to complete the project at the previously tendered price and negotiations are currently ongoing between the contractor and TII. In the event the two parties fail to reach an agreement, the project will be retendered which will add 12-18 months to the project timeline. At present, if a deal can be agreed the project should be complete by mid 2022. In the event of a retender, the project will not be complete until 2024 at the earliest.

M20 Cork-Limerick & M40 North Ring Road East: Consultants have now been appointed to carry this project through Phases 1-4 of TII's Project Management Guidelines (feasibility/project scope, route selection, design & EIS, statutory process) The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform announced in Sept that this scheme is expected to start in 2021 and open in 2025, however this appears extremely ambitious. Based on current projects going through the process, it is envisaged that the M20 will open in approx. 11-13 years (2030-2032). According to CMATS, a link from the M20 at Killeens to the M8 at Glanmire will be assessed as part of the M20 scheme, however the delivery of this link (the North Ring) is not guaranteed at this stage.

N22 Macroom-Ballyvourney: Tenders were received for this project in the last few weeks. A tender award is expected in the next 6 months with the project to start soon after. A three year timeframe is anticipated with the project therefore expected to be complete by Q1 2023.

N25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton: This project is included in the National Development Plan having been suspended in 2011. The project has passed the pre-appraisal stage and consultants will be appointed to carry the project through Phases 1-4 of TII's PMG in 2019. Consultants have been appointed too many of the other projects that started with this one so it is not seen as a priority at this stage.

M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy: This project was approved in full by An Bord Pleanala in July 2018, however is currently in the High Court. A decision on whether or not to quash planning permission has been deferred until at least October.

M40 Motorway Reclassification and ITS Upgrade: Contractors are currently on site installing gantries along the N40 and approach roads. Gantries are currently being installed on the N22 eastbound at Poulavone, N40 eastbound at Curraheen, N40 westbound at Togher, N71 citybound at the Viaduct. Jacobs and TII are currently advancing a motorway reclassification study for the N40 which will be published in due course.

R624 Cobh Road dualling: Cork County Council are applying to DTTAS to have this road upgraded to a national road and a portion of dual carriageway built along its length which will involve the construction of a 2nd dual carriageway bridge onto Great Island. The project will be initially appraised under DTTAS new appraisal guidelines, with no timescale yet for delivery.

R630 upgrade: It is a short/medium term goal for Cork County Council to upgrade the R630 between Whitegate and the N25 at Lakeview. This was reinforced in the CMATS publication however no actual plan has been published. It is also an objective of Cork County Council to redesignate the road as a national secondary road, which would make it eligible for TII funding. However the lack of funding for the much busier N71 doesn't lend much hope to this objective being fruitful.

Suspended:

N22 Macroom-Ovens: This overcapacity mess first had a route selected by Cork County Council and the NRA in 2002. Since then there has been no progress on the scheme and what work was done has to be scrapped. In 2018, in planning for the National Development Plan, TII identified the road as having a high rate of head on collisions, but the road was omitted from the investment plan. It is currently suspended until at least 2022.

N25 Midleton-Youghal (bypassing Castlemartyr/Killeagh): TII findings in 2018 show that this stretch of road has sufficient capacity until at least 2030. It remains suspended and no work this side of 2030 is currently envisaged.

N27 N40-Cork Airport: TII flagged this route as operating at >120% of capacity in 2018 but have no plans to do anything about that. CMATS plans bus lanes between the N40 and Cork Airport in both directions./

M40 North Ring Road West: The project was mentioned in CMATS as a long term strategic goal with no implementation plan. The project remains a priority for TII due to congestion along the corridor but there is a severe lack of will to advance the project. It will be costly due to terrain which is another stumbling block.

N71: The N71 remains the busiest national secondary road in the country, with close to 30,000 vehicles per day approaching the N40. It remains with no upgrade plan, bar a plan to extend the half baked Bandon relief road. It is worth noting that the N71 at Bishopstown is carrying THREE times the capacity of the road, with traffic volumes meriting motorway as far as at least Halfway with dual carriageway from there to west of Bandon.

Rhys Essien

That's a bit depressing if our iconic/landmark tower is going to be scaled down almost 20 storeys to less than 30 given that on their website they had it down for 47 originally.

I wonder what absolute buffoons are responsible for this. I mean if this will be 27 floors and we will have other ones nearby at 25 floors then it's not really a standout landmark building and it now won't even be the tallest building on the island which would have been nice too.

So much for height restrictions being scrapped.

A missed opportunity and a great pity.

Markcheese

While I'd be personally thrilled to see some of the above road projects built, and concerned by others (nimbyism), it does kind of show that the more roads built, the more the public have little choice but to use them, proper public transport and city/urban housing would seriously help..
The mainstay of that in cork is always gonna be the bus, and they're currently crap...

hans aus dtschl

Markcheese wrote: »

While I'd be personally thrilled to see some of the above road projects built, and concerned by others (nimbyism), it does kind of show that the more roads built, the more the public have little choice but to use them, proper public transport and city/urban housing would seriously help..
The mainstay of that in cork is always gonna be the bus, and they're currently crap...

There's virtually zero movement on any of the sustainable transport modes.
It's all just car, car and another 950 million electric cars.

I'm not really affected: I've a short commute so can cycle or drive.
But if I NEEDED to drive or was a professional driver then I'd be fairly irritated that there's almost no effort whatsoever to get us short-commute drivers off the road!

Lackadaisical

I don't think there will be either while urban transit is not managed by urban government. Ireland's shockingly over centralised and it's killing the cities (including Dublin) because they've no meaningful control over their infrastructure. It's all quangos like the NTA, CIE or national politics.

I mean look at the ludicrous situation where an independent TD from Athlone has more influence over the development of flood defences in Cork than anyone in this city.

Until you change that, our cities will always be somewhat dysfunctional mediocrities.

Even that executive mayor proposal was just kind of thrown at us without adequate explanation or any clear notion of what (if anything) was being devolved. It's hardly surprising it wasn't supported by the plebiscite.

hans aus dtschl

Lackadaisical wrote: »

I don't think there will be either while urban transit is not managed by urban government. Ireland's shockingly over centralised and it's killing the cities (including Dublin) because they've no meaningful control over their infrastructure. It's all quangos like the NTA, CIE or national politics.

I mean look at the ludicrous situation where an independent TD from Athlone has more influence over the development of flood defences in Cork than anyone in this city.

Until you change that, our cities will always be somewhat dysfunctional mediocrities.

Even that executive mayor proposal was just kind of thrown at us without adequate explanation or any clear notion of what (if anything) was being devolved. It's hardly surprising it wasn't supported by the plebiscite.

I broadly agree that there should be more local governance.
But in their defence, I've seen the NTA direct our councils to improve their (usually terrible, car-first) designs. And our Councillors just voted against the council's sustainable transport plan for Wilton Road.

So our local councils are fairly backwards too.
A lot of the blame lies at home.

Lackadaisical

The issue is more that the cities have always had public transit imposed from upon high. There's no urbanism without proper urban government. The electorate and councillors have never had to really take responsibility for the city in modern times, so there's a tendency to just use local democracy as a protest vote against something being perceived as being imposed from upon high, rather than the city taking pride in building out its own transit infrastructure.

hans aus dtschl

Lackadaisical wrote: »

The issue is more that the cities have always had public transit imposed from upon high. There's no urbanism without proper urban government. The electorate and councillors have never had to really take responsibility for the city in modern times, so there's a tendency to just use local democracy as a protest vote against something being perceived as being imposed from upon high, rather than the city taking pride in building out its own transit infrastructure.

I can't argue with that.
All I can say is that I'll keep contacting my own councillors to tell them that the issue matters.

We can't keep going with this notion that we can get more cars into Cork. It doesn't matter whether they're electric or not, there's a limit. Flaring a roundabout wider or narrowing a footpath to fit another lane is just not going to work.

Markcheese

I suppose everyone's fighting their corner for projects, (and councillors seem to hate disruption and love cars) even if an idea starts off to improve bike lanes it ends up being about cars down it,( Sarsfield road, ,)
Or the bus lane for wilton Road, seemed to prioritise turning lanes for cars,
You can't prioritise everything....
I'd love to see a city council department with proper TII funding, going through bus routes 1 by 1, improving them, better stops, ticketing, removing near useless dog legs, bus lanes, priorities where possible, appropriate buses,
Lobbying for major works, and ensuring reliability (even if that means taking Bus Éireann off a route,)
Its not sexy, its not big ticket announcement stuff, but is cork gonna just wait 30 years for a single luas style line... While doing Feic all else..

(and random bike lanes that start and end in busy pedestrian crossings don't really count) ,(penrose quay)

marno21

Markcheese wrote: »

While I'd be personally thrilled to see some of the above road projects built, and concerned by others (nimbyism), it does kind of show that the more roads built, the more the public have little choice but to use them, proper public transport and city/urban housing would seriously help..
The mainstay of that in cork is always gonna be the bus, and they're currently crap...

There's a pressing need for both for different reasons.

ALL approach roads (national roads) into Cork are operating at motorway levels, from Mallow, Castlemartyr, west of Ovens, Inishannon, Cork Airport and Shannonpark. None of these are at the required standard to deal with existing volumes, let alone to cater for growth.

Freight will also not be moved using buses or bicycles, something the Green Party often seem to forget.

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

There's a pressing need for both for different reasons.

ALL approach roads (national roads) into Cork are operating at motorway levels, from Mallow, Castlemartyr, west of Ovens, Inishannon, Cork Airport and Shannonpark. None of these are at the required standard to deal with existing volumes, let alone to cater for growth.

Freight will also not be moved using buses or bicycles, something the Green Party often seem to forget.

Freight's not really the biggest problem that exists though. Heavy freight isn't really wanted in city centres and freight's just a fraction of all journeys, mostly on N40, M8 and N25.

The biggest offenders in cork are commuter cars, by far. I think around 67% of our commuters use car. Many of the approach roads to Cork are highly-trafficked because of a lack of alternatives. As I said earlier, the current strategy is car car car and another 950 million cars.

So we need roads upgrades around the city (NRR, Dunkettle, etc) but within the metropolitan area itself we need to stop trying to jam more cars in. Two totally different problems.

marno21

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Freight's not really the biggest problem that exists though. Heavy freight isn't really wanted in city centres and freight's just a fraction of all journeys, mostly on N40, M8 and N25.

The biggest offenders in cork are commuter cars, by far. I think around 67% of our commuters use car. Many of the approach roads to Cork are highly-trafficked because of a lack of alternatives. As I said earlier, the current strategy is car car car and another 950 million cars.

So we need roads upgrades around the city (NRR, Dunkettle, etc) but within the metropolitan area itself we need to stop trying to jam more cars in. Two totally different problems.

Freight is a problem when it's causing congestion on the approach roads and rattling through villages. A Type 1 DC is a relatively low cost win win solution for these roads. Ireland is not a poor country we should be able to afford it.

I agree there should be a targeted removal of cars from the city centre, the North Ring Road would help here. However, cars will still be prevalent in the suburbs and in the towns surrounding the city. That's the way development has gone in the city and it will be difficult to reverse.

The only roads within the N40 ring that should be progressed are the Docklands infrastructure, and the Northern and Southern distributors. These are multimodal corridors through rather than for increasing car traffic. Keep the heavy traffic on and outside the N40. But there would still be a need for M22, M25 and M71 feeders into the N40.,

who_me

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

We can't keep going with this notion that we can get more cars into Cork. It doesn't matter whether they're electric or not, there's a limit. Flaring a roundabout wider or narrowing a footpath to fit another lane is just not going to work.

I think we still could be smarter though over our "car management" though. The traffic volume isn't a permanent issue 24/7 and 12 months of the year, it's a major issue at school and business rush hours, during sports/music events, and during the school months. But dramatically lower at others.

Instead of (IMO, simplistic, ham-fisted) approaches like reducing car parking spaces and car lanes; car bans or 'car taxes' etc., we should look to reducing traffic flow at the peak times. e.g. reduce car parking spaces at office developments far more than residential developments, so people can still own a car for various uses but will be disinclined to drive during rush-hour.

hans aus dtschl

who_me wrote: »

I think we still could be smarter though over our "car management" though. The traffic volume isn't a permanent issue 24/7 and 12 months of the year, it's a major issue at school and business rush hours, during sports/music events, and during the school months. But dramatically lower at others.

Instead of (IMO, simplistic, ham-fisted) approaches like reducing car parking spaces and car lanes; car bans or 'car taxes' etc., we should look to reducing traffic flow at the peak times. e.g. reduce car parking spaces at office developments far more than residential developments, so people can still own a car for various uses but will be disinclined to drive during rush-hour.

We can discuss about what's ham-fisted or productive, but virtually nothing's being attempted at present, other than "moar cars".

All of the big employment centres in Cork are little car meccas:
Mostly: outside the city and away from residential areas, large roads, poor/dangerous sustainable transport options and massive swathes of free parking.

Council's currently working on getting more cars into Little Island, by reducing the footpaths and getting more lanes onto the roundabout. They're working on getting more cars through Shannonpark roundabout by by getting more lanes onto the roundabout.

That should cure it!

It's not rocket science: if you design for cars first, then people's first choice will be cars.

Again, I'm not really affected: I've a short commute so can cycle or drive.
But if I NEEDED to drive or was a professional driver then I'd be fairly irritated that there's almost no effort whatsoever to get us short-commute drivers off the road.

cgcsb

Lackadaisical wrote: »

I don't think there will be either while urban transit is not managed by urban government. Ireland's shockingly over centralised and it's killing the cities (including Dublin) because they've no meaningful control over their infrastructure. It's all quangos like the NTA, CIE or national politics.

Local government has proven a failure in this area. Look at DCC's attempts at the liffey cycle route and college green plaza. Both now effectively taken over by the NTA due to local political incompetence

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

Freight is a problem when it's causing congestion on the approach roads and rattling through villages. A Type 1 DC is a relatively low cost win win solution for these roads. Ireland is not a poor country we should be able to afford it.

I agree there should be a targeted removal of cars from the city centre, the North Ring Road would help here. However, cars will still be prevalent in the suburbs and in the towns surrounding the city. That's the way development has gone in the city and it will be difficult to reverse.

The only roads within the N40 ring that should be progressed are the Docklands infrastructure, and the Northern and Southern distributors. These are multimodal corridors through rather than for increasing car traffic. Keep the heavy traffic on and outside the N40. But there would still be a need for M22, M25 and M71 feeders into the N40.,

I think most of the freight through villages is outside of the metro area though.

As you rightly say, cars are prevalent in the metro area because that's how it was developed.

I believe the CMATS plan is to increase car traffic by quote a lot actually.
Currently around 67% cars from a total of 830k (556k cars).
In 2040 to be 49% cars from a total of 1300k (650k cars).
So around 94 thousand more cars in the metropolitan area by 2040, is the plan.

timmyjimmy

I for one will be one less car on the road if they ever decide to build the Carrigtwohill west train station. Plenty of my colleagues will do the same.
For feic sake like, I can see the train pass along the tracks from the office window! Some low hanging fruit right there when it comes to public transport but alas, car comes first in Ireland.