Cork developments

hans aus dtschl

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Maybe there's some people that are mocking all older buildings, but I haven't seen that here (acknowledging that I do have some on ignore).

Ah there was a bit of slagging going on alright which isn't very constructive.

I can get over someone arguing that the Sextant is ugly and an eyesore, but it's not fair to brand everyone who's in favour of keeping some of the facade "anti-progress". I'll be delighted to see a modern tall building there, I just thought that it would have been nice to incorporate the angled face at the corner. I won't lose sleep over it.

opus

the beer revolu wrote: »

If I could thank this 100 times, I would.

Of course developers want to knock everything old and build new. Because it's the only way? Because it's the best way?
It is in its shlte!
It's the cheapest way.

All you mockers who have no regard for older buildings unless they are classical play right into the hands of developers.
You can have progress and development and conservation all at the same time. Yes, some buildings need to go for the sake of progress but there needs to be a grown up discussion on what can be kept and what should be kept.

Developers are in the business to make money. That's their job. They are not here to do what is best for the city. We need a grown up debate, not a polarised slagging match.

It would be a travesty to let the stone vaults at the Port of Cork /Cork Bonded Warehouse go. I can't believe people are being sagged off for wanting to preserve this architectural gem. I am all in favour of tower and redevelopment of this site.

I think, with good design, there could be merit in keeping the Sextant building. I am also in favour of developing this site.

Now here's one for you. I love the R&H Hall building. I just do. However, I get it that others find it ugly. I don't mock them for this. I'd love to see it repuposed but I suspect I'll never get to see this.

So, can we have a less black and white, mature discussion with an understanding that wanting to preserve architecture of varied types is not, necessarily, anti development and anti progress?

And yes, there are people at each extreme but forcing people to be one or the other is no good for anyone.

Rant over

I sort of like the brutality of the R&H building, if you had a magical money tree you could maybe do a smaller version of the Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg. It looks just as unbelievable in real life having visited it last year.



The plans for the 35 story building look really good, will do my best to make that info session tomorrow in the custom house.

cc

cgcsb wrote: »

With all these developments happening, I just can't get my head around how the government can justify doing nothing at all to improve transport in Cork between now and 2030.

Well, if we can't get a bus and bike lane on the Wilton road ourselves we can't lay it all at central government

cgcsb

cc wrote: »

Well, if we can't get a bus and bike lane on the Wilton road ourselves we can't lay it all at central government

To be fair I think Cork City Council lacks the competencies in this area. The Wilton design was like something a lad who graduated as a road engineer in the 70s would come up with and the begrudingly insert some changes from the NTA's design manual afterwards.

Nigel Fairservice

opus wrote: »

I sort of like the brutality of the R&H building, if you had a magical money tree you could maybe do a smaller version of the Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg. It looks just as unbelievable in real life having visited it last year.

The plans for the 35 story building look really good, will do my best to make that info session tomorrow in the custom house.

I was there as well, it's a stunning building. Certainly in my top 3. Hamburg has great examples of what can be done with older industrial buildings. Speicherstadt is a very interesting place to walk around (as well as Hafen City). Personally I like the Odlums building, R&H Hall and the power station. I would like the facade of the Odlums building retained. R&H Hall, I hope they can re-purpose it, it can be done if there's a will and a lot of money but if it can't I wouldn't like it to hold up the whole show.

Justin Credible Darts

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Holy smokes, the day has come and it's 34 storeys.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Developers-reveal-plans-for-Irelands-tallest-building-at-Port-of-Cork-site-twice-the-height-of-Elysian-Tower-59c240f1-a221-4f81-9ccd-0416db5d7463-ds#.XSgV-cnE-AA.twitter

That looks awesome


However this is cork, and I doubt this will ever happen, something will go wrong, people will moan, bribes and backhanders will be everywhere until in the end many many years after the promised date we will end up with something that is a piss poor replacement at treble the cost, and ugly as sin

TheChizler

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's opposite to what was originally flagged. The tower now is on top of the custom House building instead of on the end of the site.

Much prefer this design, when it was at the point the river split it looked very unbalanced or something.

the beer revolu

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

That looks awesome


However this is cork, and I doubt this will ever happen, something will go wrong, people will moan, bribes and backhanders will be everywhere until in the end many many years after the promised date we will end up with something that is a piss poor replacement at treble the cost, and ugly as sin

I despise this "only in Cork" attitude and negativity.

Justin Credible Darts

the beer revolu wrote: »

I despise this "only in Cork" attitude and negativity.

how is that cork events centre coming along then ?

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

how is that cork events centre coming along then ?

Same as the Atlantic Quarter

the beer revolu

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

how is that cork events centre coming along then ?

The events center is now analogous of everything that happens in Cork, now, is it?
Pissy, typical, Cork negative whinging.

marno21

I hope given the extensive pre planning consultation that Cork City Council decide on this quick so that then inevitable ABP appeal can be done

Someone confirm this for me please?

Are people actually, really, and seriously advocating the the R&H Hall needs to be kept?
It's a mass concrete slab of a grain store.

What is wrong with people? The Odlums building is a beautiful redbrick facade (and floor space) which would easily be incorporated into a modern design, harking back to industrial roots. The R&H Hall though?? FFS

Justin Credible Darts

the beer revolu wrote: »

The events center is now analogous of everything that happens in Cork, now, is it?
Pissy, typical, Cork negative whinging.

how is this whinging.


Are you illiterate ?
I want the developments that are proposed, or in some cases promised but reality has shown they rarely work out.


You can call it whining to try deflect, but the FACT is the events centre has been a disaster, and pointing that out is not whinging.

the beer revolu

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

how is this whinging.


Are you illiterate ?
I want the developments that are proposed, or in some cases promised but reality has shown they rarely work out.


You can call it whining to try deflect, but the FACT is the events centre has been a disaster, and pointing that out is not whinging.

No, I'm not illiterate. Are you?

Pointing out that a project has been infuriatingly stalled is not negative whinging.
Vocally assuming that every future development will be infuriatingly stalled is negative whinging of a type that Cork people seem to specialise in.

BUNK1982

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone confirm this for me please?

Are people actually, really, and seriously advocating the the R&H Hall needs to be kept?
It's a mass concrete slab of a grain store.

What is wrong with people? The Odlums building is a beautiful redbrick facade (and floor space) which would easily be incorporated into a modern design, harking back to industrial roots. The R&H Hall though?? FFS

I'd like to keep it - it's been there and dominated the area since the 1940's. it points to the maritime and agrarian heritage of the city and the area which i think thin should be maintained as the new buildings fly up.

I'd never seen heard of the Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg before but it looks awesome, would be great to see some really adventurous architecture in the new docklands like that or in Blibao.

Did read that Elbphilharmonie ws supposed to cost 200m but ended up at 800m...

Justin Credible Darts

tell yourself that, you might even convince yourself, but I am a realist, and well aware of many many proposed projects, taking far longer than promised, costing more than expected, and other problems.

The optimist in me would love to be proven wrong, and see this new custom house building as proposed, but the realist tells me what we might end up with will be a lot different.

Call my complaint about the events centre as whinging if you like, but people are allowed to vent their "whinging" about that development.

the beer revolu

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Someone confirm this for me please?

Are people actually, really, and seriously advocating the the R&H Hall needs to be kept?
It's a mass concrete slab of a grain store.

What is wrong with people? The Odlums building is a beautiful redbrick facade (and floor space) which would easily be incorporated into a modern design, harking back to industrial roots. The R&H Hall though?? FFS

How come people who value the R&H Hall building seem to be able to get their heads around the fact that others find it ugly and of no importance?

But the people who find it ugly and of no importance just cannot understand why anyone would think differently.

I wonder what this says about each group?

BUNK1982

the beer revolu wrote: »

No, I'm not illiterate. Are you?

Pointing out that a project has been infuriatingly stalled is not negative whinging.
Vocally assuming that every future development will be infuriatingly stalled is negative whinging of a type that Cork people seem to specialise in.

FWIW I think that with the development of Kennedy Quay, the events centre at old Beamish and Crawford site will be cancelled.

Could be for the best?

R&H Hall developed into an architectural landmark - move Cork Opera House in there and let that be our event center??

BUNK1982

the beer revolu wrote: »

How come people who value the R&H Hall building seem to be able to get their heads around the fact that others find it ugly and of no importance?

But the people who find it ugly and of no importance just cannot understand why anyone would think differently.

I wonder what this says about each group?

This building has a visual significance beyond its intrinsic utilitarian design as a result of its visibility from many parts of the city. It serves through its height and scale to define the remaining commercial docks area of the city from some distance.

http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=CC&regno=20508069

the beer revolu

the beer revolu wrote: »

How come people who value the R&H Hall building seem to be able to get their heads around the fact that others find it ugly and of no importance?

But the people who find it ugly and of no importance just cannot understand why anyone would think differently.

I wonder what this says about each group?

That you're doing a piss poor job of explaining its beauty and importance?

And how it can be incorporated into any modern design/function without bankrupting any one fool enough to try?

the beer revolu

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Call my complaint about the events centre as whinging if you like, but people are allowed to vent their "whinging" about that development.

I never did this. Read my posts.
I think people are perfectly entitled to be pissed off by the events centre debacle.

Using it as an analogue for all development is negative whinging.

BUNK1982

BUNK1982 wrote: »

This building has a visual significance beyond its intrinsic utilitarian design as a result of its visibility from many parts of the city. It serves through its height and scale to define the remaining commercial docks area of the city from some distance.

http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=CC&regno=20508069

So its significance is as a place holder and marking point?

opus

BUNK1982 wrote: »

I'd like to keep it - it's been there and dominated the area since the 1940's. it points to the maritime and agrarian heritage of the city and the area which i think thin should be maintained as the new buildings fly up.

I'd never seen heard of the Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg before but it looks awesome, would be great to see some really adventurous architecture in the new docklands like that or in Blibao.

Did read that Elbphilharmonie ws supposed to cost 200m but ended up at 800m...

A mere 925% over budget, lucky the Germans have the cash as they're still trying to finish the new airport in Berlin!

Curtain finally raised on Hamburg concert hall at 925% over budget

the beer revolu

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That you're doing a piss poor job of explaining its beauty and importance?

And how it can be incorporated into any modern design/function without bankrupting any one fool enough to try?

It's not my job to explain its beauty and importance.
Somehow I can't, ever, see you changing your view on this matter (nothing wrong with that, in itself), so it would be wasted words anyway.

BUNK1982

Deleted User wrote: »

So its significance is as a place holder and marking point?

I'm just putting it up there so you can consider it, there's no logic involved - how you feel about is up to you.

fonecrusher1

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Holy smokes, the day has come and it's 34 storeys.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Developers-reveal-plans-for-Irelands-tallest-building-at-Port-of-Cork-site-twice-the-height-of-Elysian-Tower-59c240f1-a221-4f81-9ccd-0416db5d7463-ds#.XSgV-cnE-AA.twitter

Looks fantastic. Coupled with a few other proposed tall buildings it will look fantastic if it happens. If it happens.

Unfortunately this will meet solid resistance from the waste of space group called An Taisce (A group that seeks to justify their existence by simply opposing anything new). It will meet resistance from the virtually non existent Green Party all clambering to impress each other with their condemning tweets. It will meet resistance from the same old fashioned moaning NIMBY's that plague every city desperately needing rejuvenation / investment.

Sadly after the various appeals have been dragged out I'd be surprised if it wasn't notched down to 25 stories like the Port of Cork Tower.

the beer revolu wrote: »

Of course developers want to knock everything old and build new. Because it's the only way? Because it's the best way? It is in its shlte! It's the cheapest way.

Developers are in the business to make money. That's their job. They are not here to do what is best for the city. We need a grown up debate, not a polarised slagging match.

Rant over

Let me tell you something, if it wasn't for private developers building in the city we would have nothing built. Look at the absolute shambles that is the Event Center and the others? I know its a tired old point but yes outside of Dublin and the neighboring counties the cogs of progress for public infrastructure development turn very very slowly.

Bloody developers eh? Why can't they just leave things as they are.

j8wk2feszrnpao

the beer revolu wrote: »

How come people who value the R&H Hall building seem to be able to get their heads around the fact that others find it ugly and of no importance?

But the people who find it ugly and of no importance just cannot understand why anyone would think differently.

I wonder what this says about each group?

I think it says you have issues reading peoples posts.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Personally I think the R&H Hall is an ugly monolith that presents an eyesore for those who past by it on the way into the city. But, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Re-purposing would be great, but as per snotboogie, unfeasible.

So much for your x 100 thanks that "Everyone's thoughts have value" :rolleyes:

fonecrusher1

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone confirm this for me please?

Are people actually, really, and seriously advocating the the R&H Hall needs to be kept?
It's a mass concrete slab of a grain store.

What is wrong with people? The Odlums building is a beautiful redbrick facade (and floor space) which would easily be incorporated into a modern design, harking back to industrial roots. The R&H Hall though?? FFS

C_e I think there would be very very few people who would share the same passion for what is basically a concrete block akin to something you would see near Chernobyl. Seriously if that becomes a 'thing' as in a group is formed to protect it? I don't know... I give up.

Its a whingers paradise these days in Cork city with all these horrific plans for massive infrastructure investment. Disgraceful!

the beer revolu

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Let me tell you something, if it wasn't for private developers building in the city we would have nothing built. Look at the absolute shambles that is the Event Center and the others? I know its a tired old point but yes outside of Dublin and the neighboring counties the cogs of progress for public infrastructure development turn very very slowly.

Bloody developers eh? Why can't they just leave things as they are.

I think you've completely misunderstood my point.
Of course we need developers. As you say, almost nothing would get built without them (the primary stakeholder in The Events Centre is a developer, btw).
What I am trying to say is that if we want good, attractive, sustainable development, it is the job of the city to impose this. If it is more expensive to preserve buildings, then developers will , naturally, rail against that. This is not a reason to not preserve old buildings.
If we don't impose conditions on the developers we will end up with more Merchant's Quay monstrosities and an awful, soulless city.

No developer is developing for the public good - and nor would I expect them to.

This is why we need strong, joined up, enforceable, consistent planning.