Cork developments

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munstermagic11 wrote: »

No. That's my view.

You better keep boring us all with it so.
This thread has gone down a rabbit hole and become next to useless.

fonecrusher1

Camilla Better Muffler wrote: »

You better keep boring us all with it so.
This thread has gone down a rabbit hole and become next to useless.

Not boring me.

If the thread is so useless and boring then consider looking at other threads.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Camilla Better Muffler wrote: »

You better keep boring us all with it so.
This thread has gone down a rabbit hole and become next to useless.

Maybe you should just move on?

Markcheese

I don't see that the docks NEEDS to go high-rise, (although I'm not anti it either), but it does need to go high density (IMO),
From a people point of view I'd rather see loads of affordable 6 or 7 storey apartment buildings, than a few high rise exclusively high end builds... Theres plenty of space, it's probably gonna take decades to fully develop, but to work for the City it's going to need to be densely developed for a mix of the population...

Lackadaisical

One thing we should be looking at as a matter or urgency is district heating systems in those docklands areas being built out.

It would be a massive missed opportunity to reduce CO2 impact to fail to put in the necessary plumbing for that now.

There are huge advantages to doing that stuff on a big scale as you can use far more advanced ways of getting heat like big scale geothermal and so on.

fonecrusher1

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/second-city-could-turn-into-mini-manhattan-over-highrise-plans-38323566.html

Not that I would read the independent but the petition has been mentioned in the above article. Pity they didn't have the collective intelligence to actually include the link to the petition.

Captainsatnav

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/second-city-could-turn-into-mini-manhattan-over-highrise-plans-38323566.html

Not that I would read the independent but the petition has been mentioned in the above article. Pity they didn't have the collective intelligence to actually include the link to the petition.

Well - it is the Independent to be fair like...

Apogee

snotboogie wrote: »

Penrose Quay Office: Karamex Ltd's twin office buildings, six storeys and seven storeys in height, are planned for Penrose Quay adjacent to the under-construction Penrose Dock development. The office buildings are designed for single or multiple office users and will be targeted for general office, technology or educational users. They could accommodate up to 1,000 workers. Further information requested in June.

Cork City Council wrote:

Permission for development which will consist of the construction of modifications to Building B of the Penrose Dock office development (as permitted under Cork City Council planning reference 18/37909 and under construction), bounded by Penrose Quay/Railway Street/Alfred Street, Cork City. The proposed development includes the provision of a new ground floor pedestrian access and lobby from Alfred Street, and an ESB substation and additional staff facilities. The proposed development will result in a reduction in part of the permitted ground floor office floorspace of Building B.

http://planning.corkcity.ie/AppFileRefDetails/1938543/0

Apogee

snotboogie wrote: »

Student accommodation:

Gainstar Limited Partnership's Coca-Cola site (600 beds) on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? Site has been sold to Future Generations who will submit planning for an increase to 600 beds and are hoping for a Q2 2019 start pending planning.Planning sought in Feb 2019, the proposed modifications include increasing the number of apartments on the site from 92 to 167 and bed spaces from 484 to 623. The height of the proposed buildings will increase from six to ten storeys and from four to seven storeys previously permitted. Decision due on the 8th of April. Planning granted in May 2019, possible Q4 start

Cork City Council wrote:

Permission for modifications to the student accommodation development previously permitted under COrk City Council's Ref's 15/36663, 17/37329, 18/38086 and 19/38242 at the site of the former Coca Cola Bottling Plant, Carrigrohane , Cork. The proposed modifications include : 1) amendment of car parking to provide an additional 11 no. car parking spaces at surface level (increasing the number of car parking spaces on site from 8 to 19) 2) reorganization of bicycle parking areas (maintaining 312 no. bicycle parking spaces) 3) partial relocation of internal communal refuse store, 4) relocation of substation, switch room, generator and gas skid, and 5) all associated plan and elevational changes, and all ancillary development.

http://planning.corkcity.ie/AppFileRefDetails/1938544/0

Justin Credible Darts

John Adams is just another modern day self righteous ego maniac who thinks if he cries long and loud enough he is important.

Sad reality is more and more people pander to clownshoes like that

fonecrusher1

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

John Adams is just another modern day self righteous ego maniac who thinks if he cries long and loud enough he is important.

Sad reality is more and more people pander to clownshoes like that

Its taken him 3 years to get just over 1700 signs on his petition to 'save' the port of cork. The petition for high rise buildings currently sits at around 750 signs in two days. Just two days! I'm not too worried about him. Also the person who started the petition Julie O'Leary seems like more than a match for him.

The problem is your man seems to have The Echo and a few cork based radio stations eager to engage with him. Much more than anyone openly supporting the new buildings.

hans aus dtschl

Lads, let's leave out the personal stuff, there's no need.

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Its taken him 3 years to get just over 1700 signs on his petition to 'save' the port of cork. The petition for high rise buildings currently sits at around 750 signs in two days. Just two days! I'm not too worried about him. Also the person who started the petition Julie O'Leary seems like more than a match for him.

The problem is your man seems to have The Echo and a few cork based radio stations eager to engage with him. Much more than anyone openly supporting the new buildings.

It's also well known that the Echo and Examiner take opposing editorial lines on most issues.
One will say black, the other will say white. I wouldn't read too much into what line either takes.

CHealy

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Lads, let's leave out the personal stuff, there's no need.

Give but cant take it seems. He's the one thats put himself in the spotlight.

hans aus dtschl

CHealy wrote: »

Give but cant take it seems. He's the one thats put himself in the spotlight.

I'm not giving out/admonishing: I'm just saying I'd like to think we're above it.

The merits of developing density and height in the city centre and the conservation of the old buildings will stand in their own right.

AugustusMinimus

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I'm not giving out/admonishing: I'm just saying I'd like to think we're above it.

The merits of developing density and height in the city centre and the conservation of the old buildings will stand in their own right.

We also live in a democracy where public opinion counts for an awful lot. Laurels should not be sat upon.

hans aus dtschl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

We also live in a democracy where public opinion counts for an awful lot. Laurels should not be sat upon.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't scream from the rooftops in favour of the development, I'm just saying there's no need to focus on the personality with an opposing view. The view itself is what should be challenged, not the personality.

fonecrusher1

Honestly lads ye both have valid points. He has put himself forward as the voice of the people of Cork or that's how it seems to me. Well not in my name. He doesn't represent me and if he's hellbent on thrusting himself into the public domain then some level of scrutiny should come with that. And to a certain extent examination of his character. Whats's his main objective? To actually "save" the port of cork site or get him and his artwork some publicity?

At the same time i'm trying my best to be fair to him and respect his opinion and those determined to oppose cork's tall building future as much as I strongly disagree with them.

Look at your man's reply to the petition tweet saying he was going to object to the proposals simply because he wants to. Just to delay the whole process. That's the kind of irrational logic I find hard to tolerate but in the end I think high rise buildings will go up alright. Might be some delays but it'll get there alright and i'm pretty sure in a few weeks time the petitions will fairly clearly show what the people of cork want.

AugustusMinimus

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I'm not saying that we shouldn't scream from the rooftops in favour of the development, I'm just saying there's no need to focus on the personality with an opposing view. The view itself is what should be challenged, not the personality.

While his argument should be challenged, I think motives need to be too. Certainly the planning system needs reform in this regard. There are people objecting who’s motives are not legit.

Some of these objectors are also just downright lying and not being called out on it. I’m thinking of the M28 Steering Group who claim they talk for all of Douglas and Rochestown. Nothing could be further from the truth with just about everyone I know in the area being very much for the new motorway.

marno21

Opinion piece from de paper today about the need for co-operation to make the Docklands a success

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/columnists/joe-gill/cork-faces-some-key-planning-decisions-if-goal-is-civic-and-economic-core-to-be-proud-of-in-20-years-937433.html

Markcheese

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/campaigners-slam-cork-docklands-plan-938248.html

Gawd that reads of desperately unwilling to see change, and bananas (build absolutely nothing, anywhere near any one)

fonecrusher1

All i'm seeing is an awful lot of problem identification but no solution making. In other words more whinging with very little constructive input. Same old same old.

Justin Credible Darts

what a shock the examiner are all over the objection campaigners.

TheChizler

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

All i'm seeing is an awful lot of problem identification but no solution making. In other words more whinging with very little constructive input. Same old same old.

The solution they're proposing is the tidal barrier no? They've put a decent chunk of change into consultants to come up with that alternate plan.

Lackadaisical

They are making very valid points about the proposed changes to the quay walls in the city centre. Some of what I've seen of the OPW interventions in West Cork towns has me very concerned as Cork City's character is defined by the river, much more than any other city in Ireland. It's more like a Dutch city in some ways.

I'm not sure that I'd be all that concerned about the proposals further down river though as the quaysides aren't all that unusual and need to be modified anyway to make them an amenity. If it gets it wrong along the Marina though, it could turn a really pleasant park into a a mess.

I would definitely rather see Cork's flooding dealt with by managing the river at either end. It seems logical enough given that the city isn't on the coast and all you need to do is manage flow of water at either end of a river, and one end already has dams in place.

I think we also need to beware that the massive flood a few in 2007 was a bit of a freak incident and is unlikely to ever happen again due to more conservative dam management.

hans aus dtschl

Lackadaisical wrote: »

They are making very valid points about the proposed changes to the quay walls in the city centre. Some of what I've seen of the OPW interventions in West Cork towns has me very concerned as Cork City's character is defined by the river, much more than any other city in Ireland. It's more like a Dutch city in some ways.

I'm not sure that I'd be all that concerned about the proposals further down river though as the quaysides aren't all that unusual and need to be modified anyway to make them an amenity. If it gets it wrong along the Marina though, it could turn a really pleasant park into a a mess.

I would definitely rather see Cork's flooding dealt with by managing the river at either end. It seems logical enough given that the city isn't on the coast and all you need to do is manage flow of water at either end of a river, and one end already has dams in place.

I think we also need to beware that the massive flood a few in 2007 was a bit of a freak incident and is unlikely to ever happen again due to more conservative dam management.

I can't see any merit in increasing the height of the quay walls. It would be a partial measure (only part of the city would be protected) and I haven't seen any such wall that actually looks good (artist impression or otherwise). Surely a tidal barrier, coupled with Iniscarra Dam is the right (only!) long-term approach?

In terms of council using sustainable transport funding to do other projects, I believe it. It's proving to be the ultimate council slush fund. They're upgrading roundabouts and motorway slip roads and resurfacing roads all over the place at the moment using the "sustainable transport" banner. The only thing not getting any "sustainable transport" money is sustainable transport!

Lackadaisical

They don't seem interested in a long term approach. The ticket price is too high as it's a "regional city". So it'll be done on the cheap, even if it wrecks the place and a tidal barrier is needed in 20 years due to rising sea levels. That's ultimately what it comes down to.

The traders cheering some of this on are also really not understanding that by making the city less attractive, they'll hurt footfall and huge works in the city centre will be a total disaster for trade for several years, which will probably wipe a fair bit of retail out.

Work on a barrier in the harbour would have zero impact on the city centre.

Former Observer

Some of the plans for the inner city quays are absolutely deranged and obviously the work of someone who has either never lived in Cork, or doesn't care about it.

Astonishing and a little depressing that anyone could think those concrete flood walls are an acceptable solution.

Lackadaisical

Former Observer wrote: »

Some of the plans for the inner city quays are absolutely deranged and obviously the work of someone who has either never lived in Cork, or doesn't care about it.

Astonishing and a little depressing that anyone could think those concrete flood walls are an acceptable solution.

Many things about Ireland baffle me, but it looks like they're going to completely ignore any local concerns and plough on regardless. Yet, they'll probably listen to endless objections to perfectly reasonable and elegant docklands towers!

snotboogie

Former Observer wrote: »

Some of the plans for the inner city quays are absolutely deranged and obviously the work of someone who has either never lived in Cork, or doesn't care about it.

Astonishing and a little depressing that anyone could think those concrete flood walls are an acceptable solution.

Do you have any picture example of the proposed deranged quay walls?

lostinsuperfunk

https://www.lowerleefrs.ie/gallery/