Cork developments

AugustusMinimus

Surely it’s time to name something after Cork’s favourite son, Danny La Rue?

thomil

CHealy wrote: »

Good to see this but they should be going even denser, 5 to 8 stories instead of 3 to 5. Theres a housing crisis with about 6000 people on the City Council housing list, build it up ffs.

Hear hear, although I can vividly imagine the uproar this would cause amongst the general population. The usual shower are already whining about these „tower blocks“ being plonked down in Blackpool, comparing it to Ballymun, and questioning the need when there‘s empty houses in Blackpool, etc.

What is it with this almost pathological aversion to apartments in this country, anyway? It seems that people just WANT a house with a garden, regardless of the fact that the „gardens“ in most of those estates are the size of a beach towel, and the only vegetation appears to consist of a few anaemic blades of grass quietly begging you to kill them. What is so appealing about that?

CHealy

thomil wrote: »

Hear hear, although I can vividly imagine the uproar this would cause amongst the general population. The usual shower are already whining about these „tower blocks“ being plonked down in Blackpool, comparing it to Ballymun, and questioning the need when there‘s empty houses in Blackpool, etc.

What is it with this almost pathological aversion to apartments in this country, anyway? It seems that people just WANT a house with a garden, regardless of the fact that the „gardens“ in most of those estates are the size of a beach towel, and the only vegetation appears to consist of a few anaemic blades of grass quietly begging you to kill them. What is so appealing about that?

The same people giving out about these "blocks" are the same ones who'll be on Neil next week saying their darling daughter cant get a house and has been on the list for 10 years. Its NIMBY-ism 101.

If I had my way we'd be going down the line of specific areas to be developed with tower blocks. They get a bad rep but if its done correctly they can be a great community, the UK does these well for the most part.

fash

CHealy wrote: »

thomil wrote: »

Hear hear, although I can vividly imagine the uproar this would cause amongst the general population. The usual shower are already whining about these „tower blocks“ being plonked down in Blackpool, comparing it to Ballymun, and questioning the need when there‘s empty houses in Blackpool, etc.

What is it with this almost pathological aversion to apartments in this country, anyway? It seems that people just WANT a house with a garden, regardless of the fact that the „gardens“ in most of those estates are the size of a beach towel, and the only vegetation appears to consist of a few anaemic blades of grass quietly begging you to kill them. What is so appealing about that?

The same people giving out about these "blocks" are the same ones who'll be on Neil next week saying their darling daughter cant get a house and has been on the list for 10 years. Its NIMBY-ism 101.

If I had my way we'd be going down the line of specific areas to be developed with tower blocks. They get a bad rep but if its done correctly they can be a great community, the UK does these well for the most part.

As does most of Europe - standard street has 5-7 storeys blocks on each side. It means you keep cafes and shops alive from passing trade alone and can have great services.

AugustusMinimus

fash wrote: »

As does most of Europe - standard street has 5-7 storeys blocks on each side. It means you keep cafes and shops alive from passing trade alone and can have great services.

Indeed. It means the bottom floor of most buildings all have thriving shops due to population density. It also allows support if proper public transport.

who_me

thomil wrote: »

What is it with this almost pathological aversion to apartments in this country, anyway? It seems that people just WANT a house with a garden, regardless of the fact that the „gardens“ in most of those estates are the size of a beach towel, and the only vegetation appears to consist of a few anaemic blades of grass quietly begging you to kill them. What is so appealing about that?

I can't speak for everyone, but as someone who's lived in apartments for ~20 years now; there are some massive compromises in apartment living:

Size: apartments are - almost invariably - smaller, so less living space.

Storage: From what I saw when I was viewing/buying, most apartments lack adequate in-apartment storage, and it's extremely rare to have any out-of-apartment storage for outsized items (furniture etc.) Want to live the modern lifestyle and cycle everywhere? Where do you safely store your bike? Like sports like surfing? Keep the board in the fridge? Prams/buggies?

Noise: Particularly a problem with wooden floors being more popular. I can hear everyone walking/running up and down the building stairs, and every step my upstairs neighbours take. Plus, on quiet days, I can listen to their conversations. Don't even talk about TV/music/parties!

Privacy: see above.

Security: With a shared entrance to the building, there's always the risk of non-residents getting in (or even residents gaining access to things they shouldn't). I had someone pick up a utility bill of mine and use it to fraudulently buy from the ESB store in 'my' name. Also had issues where someone lost their front-door key; and when the management agency changed the lock I was locked out of my own home. And worse, in my current building people would get buzzed in if they tried enough doorbells, then kick in the door of an unused apartment to sleep the night. Later, someone (same people?) glued over the lock so the front door would be always left open.

Water ingress: a surprisingly important one. If When water leaks, it keeps on going, floor after floor. Over the years I've had two leaks from my apartment, one serious, and 4 leaks into it. One of which cost me ~2,000 euros to re-tile my bathroom after the damage (management company didn't want another insurance claim), and a LOT of stress dealing with the repercussions/costs with my upstairs and downstairs neighbours.

Management fees: Can be thousands of euros per year, dependent on the building.

Outdoor areas: a massive one for me, and the single biggest thing I miss about a house. Not having even a balcony - especially in this kind of weather - isn't nice. Not having larger outdoor areas probably means apartments are instantly rejected by small families. "Go outside and play with the traffic?"

Access: Many apartment buildings still lack elevators, and few if any have anything approaching a service elevator for brining in any out-sized items. Hell, I've even seen one proposal that didn't have any stairs, and relied on external fire-escapes for all access.

Many of these things COULD be addressed in modern developments; but unless/until they actually ARE addressed I'd be very opposed to any pressure being put on anyone to move to apartment living. And all I see are moves by developers here to reduce the minimum size of apartments yet further.

In many nations where apartment living is more the norm, the facilities they enjoy are far better. I've seen many urbanisations in Spain, which had shared storage, laundry, pool, sports (tennis/basketball) facilities on premises etc. If these facilities were offered, peoples' opinions would change.

People are attracted to house living (and car owning) because they offer large benefits in utility, convenience, privacy, security etc. If you want people to change, give them better alternatives. Or, you know, we could just have lots of petty whinging about them on internet forums. Has never worked yet, but maybe Einstein was wrong...

snotboogie

who_me wrote: »

thomil wrote: »

What is it with this almost pathological aversion to apartments in this country, anyway? It seems that people just WANT a house with a garden, regardless of the fact that the „gardens“ in most of those estates are the size of a beach towel, and the only vegetation appears to consist of a few anaemic blades of grass quietly begging you to kill them. What is so appealing about that?

I can't speak for everyone, but as someone who's lived in apartments for ~20 years now; there are some massive compromises in apartment living:

Size: apartments are - almost invariably - smaller, so less living space.

Storage: From what I saw when I was viewing/buying, most apartments lack adequate in-apartment storage, and it's extremely rare to have any out-of-apartment storage for outsized items (furniture etc.) Want to live the modern lifestyle and cycle everywhere? Where do you safely store your bike? Like sports like surfing? Keep the board in the fridge? Prams/buggies?

Noise: Particularly a problem with wooden floors being more popular. I can hear everyone walking/running up and down the building stairs, and every step my upstairs neighbours take. Plus, on quiet days, I can listen to their conversations. Don't even talk about TV/music/parties!

Privacy: see above.

Security: With a shared entrance to the building, there's always the risk of non-residents getting in (or even residents gaining access to things they shouldn't). I had someone pick up a utility bill of mine and use it to fraudulently buy from the ESB store in 'my' name. Also had issues where someone lost their front-door key; and when the management agency changed the lock I was locked out of my own home. And worse, in my current building people would get buzzed in if they tried enough doorbells, then kick in the door of an unused apartment to sleep the night. Later, someone (same people?) glued over the lock so the front door would be always left open.

Water ingress: a surprisingly important one. If When water leaks, it keeps on going, floor after floor. Over the years I've had two leaks from my apartment, one serious, and 4 leaks into it. One of which cost me ~2,000 euros to re-tile my bathroom after the damage (management company didn't want another insurance claim), and a LOT of stress dealing with the repercussions/costs with my upstairs and downstairs neighbours.

Management fees: Can be thousands of euros per year, dependent on the building.

Outdoor areas: a massive one for me, and the single biggest thing I miss about a house. Not having even a balcony - especially in this kind of weather - isn't nice. Not having larger outdoor areas probably means apartments are instantly rejected by small families. "Go outside and play with the traffic?"

Access: Many apartment buildings still lack elevators, and few if any have anything approaching a service elevator for brining in any out-sized items. Hell, I've even seen one proposal that didn't have any stairs, and relied on external fire-escapes for all access.

Many of these things COULD be addressed in modern developments; but unless/until they actually ARE addressed I'd be very opposed to any pressure being put on anyone to move to apartment living. And all I see are moves by developers here to reduce the minimum size of apartments yet further.

In many nations where apartment living is more the norm, the facilities they enjoy are far better. I've seen many urbanisations in Spain, which had shared storage, laundry, pool, sports (tennis/basketball) facilities on premises etc. If these facilities were offered, peoples' opinions would change.

People are attracted to house living (and car owning) because they offer large benefits in utility, convenience, privacy, security etc. If you want people to change, give them better alternatives. Or, you know, we could just have lots of petty whinging about them on internet forums. Has never worked yet, but maybe Einstein was wrong...

I lived in an apartment in Dublin for two years and in Singapore for three years, I'm back living in a house in Cork now and overall I miss apartment living. I don't agree with your security assessment at all; I lived in a not so up market area of West Dublin and never had any fears of somebody getting into my apartment and never heard any stories from neighbors of being robbed, here in my supposedly much safer neighborhood in Cork both my neighbours have had their house broken into. Apartments mean more people and more people make it more difficult to break in.

whisky_galore

A lot of these issues are down to the shoddy way Irish apartments are built and the half-arsed maintenance afterwards.

j8wk2feszrnpao

who_me wrote: »

If you want people to change, give them better alternatives.

I think that's what people here are arguing for. Not crappy apartments, but quality apartments that suit family living; so people can live, work and enjoy city life.
Sheltered and affordable housing apartments won't be luxurious, but that's no different to the housing marker and what people can afford.

jamesbere

What's been done on Oliver pl St next to the old oak, is see all the scaffolding there

mire

Two large housing applications have been submitted directly to the board one is for approximately 350 units in Cobh and one for an even larger residential development in Mahon. The project in Mahon involves mainly apartments as far as I am aware and a 25 Storey Tower

mire

jamesbere wrote: »

What's been done on Oliver pl St next to the old oak, is see all the scaffolding there

It's an extension to the old oak complex with a stage area and ground floor bar cafe as far as I know

CHealy

mire wrote: »

The project in Mahon involves mainly apartments as far as I am aware and a 25 Storey Tower

This is the continuation of the Jacobs Island developtment, and will hopefully finish phase 8 and 9 of this project. This site has been marked as a suitable location for a tall building by the local area plan, and these guys want to put a 25 story tower there. I think it looks great, the 25 story tower will more likely be revised down to 18/19 floor in line with max height, but that will still look huge.

Loads of documents and photos to be found here.

http://montip-horizon.ie/

snotboogie

mire wrote: »

Two large housing applications have been submitted directly to the board one is for approximately 350 units in Cobh and one for an even larger residential development in Mahon. The project in Mahon involves mainly apartments as far as I am aware and a 25 Storey Tower

Lot's of housing getting announced now; Mahon, Cobh and Blackpool all in the last week?  I just hope that these don't go the same way as the student apartments: Only 34 new student bed spaces delivered since 2016 I know we will have the BAM and UCC apartments coming around next year but given the huge volume of announcements to much fanfare in the last two or three years it's still shocking. I'd say less than 20% of student apartments that got planning in this time have actually started construction. Hopefully the Crows Nest and the Square deal start soon....

marno21

How we all missed this, including the media..

Plans for 25 storey apartment block at Jacob's Island, as discussed on SSC here (great thread: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=305784&page=45)

http://montip-horizon.ie/

Hopefully the anti-development brigade keep away

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

How we all missed this, including the media..

Plans for 25 storey apartment block at Jacob's Island, as discussed on SSC here (great thread: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=305784&page=45)

http://montip-horizon.ie/

Hopefully the anti-development brigade keep away

What sort of height are we talking? 25 stories sounds like in the 70m range?

These sort of buildings should be concentrated into a single area around the city centre which should be dedicated for 50m + buildings.

marno21

82 metres. I have no issue with a landmark building at the tunnel mouth/Jacobs Island if done right. You already have the now disused RTE 729 AM transmission tower there.

Here's a few snaps especially with the road views. More on the website above, go into Photomontage under Landscape & Visual and Planning and Design Statement under Architectural

View of tallest building from water and from M40 westbound



View of development from M40 J10 overbridge



View of development from M40 westbound



View of development from M40 eastbound



Stunning development imo

SleetAndSnow

That looks gorgeous. What a view for people coming into cork from Dublin etc. shows them we aren’t scared to build high! hopefully it gets the go ahead

lisasimpson

One of the nicer proposed developments for cork. Id like to see that going ahead. Would be a nice view for any boots coming into the docks too

questionmark?

That's a great proposal! Hope it gets built. Although i'm just waiting for An Taisce to object to it ruining the views of something!

SleetAndSnow

questionmark? wrote: »

That's a great proposal! Hope it gets built. Although i'm just waiting for An Taisce to object to it ruining the views of something!

“We would like to object to this development as we believe it ruins the views of the beautiful jack lynch tunnel, the worn down mossy standalone apartments behind them and the wonderful view of Mahon point shopping center if looking at a certain way.”

Rhys Essien

I’m all for Skyscrapers but this is another basic bland design.Something like the 31 storey Canaletto tower in London would look great.

Pics here:

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/jan/29/canaletto-london-skyscraper-review

j8wk2feszrnpao

There's no way you could have a building like that in Cork. London has the population of people who can afford such a premises. Maybe it could look better, but people need housing/apartments that they can afford.
Reading the comments section, seems a lot of people (esp the locals) hate the sight of it.

opus

marno21 wrote: »

How we all missed this, including the media..

Plans for 25 storey apartment block at Jacob's Island, as discussed on SSC here (great thread: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=305784&page=45)

http://montip-horizon.ie/

Hopefully the anti-development brigade keep away

Gas I read that on Fri and then I was out for a jog there this morning & there's the planning notice!



Would certainly the many people who walk/cycle/run there something to look at.

Roger Hassenforder

marno21 wrote: »

82 metres. I have no issue with a landmark building at the tunnel mouth/Jacobs Island if done right. You already have the now disused RTE 729 AM transmission tower there.

View of development from M40 westbound


Stunning development imo

I'm all for high rise, but that looks a bit bland.
+ I think they should be clustered in the city centre
Looks a bit wrong there.

SleetAndSnow

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I'm all for high rise, but that looks a bit bland.
+ I think they should be clustered in the city centre
Looks a bit wrong there.

It’s a start though, Jacobs Island is zoned for high rise buildings so even building one there may start development of others.

marno21

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

It’s a start though, Jacobs Island is zoned for high rise buildings so even building one there may start development of others.

Dense development at Jacobs Island along with employment and retail in Mahon will heavily strengthen the case for a light rail or at worse bus rapid transit from Jacobs Island-Mahon-Docklands-City Centre

zetalambda

marno21 wrote: »

Dense development at Jacobs Island along with employment and retail in Mahon will heavily strengthen the case for a light rail or at worse bus rapid transit from Jacobs Island-Mahon-Docklands-City Centre

Exactly. Once planning is granted for this proposal and the Ford site next to PUC, it pretty much guarantees the viability of an east-west transport corridor using the old railway line.

marno21

zetalambda wrote: »

Exactly. Once planning is granted for this proposal and the Ford site next to PUC, it pretty much guarantees the viability of an east-west transport corridor using the old railway line.

God the thought of the battle to get that to construction makes me cringe.

Roger Hassenforder

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

It’s a start though, Jacobs Island is zoned for high rise buildings so even building one there may start development of others.

I want to rise as well, but I think we'll end up with one here, one there. Pockets of medium to high density spread out with fcuk all services.

we end up with a banlieue effect.