Cork developments

questionmark?

marno21 wrote: »

New renders of the new Horgans Quay incorporating the revised apartment plans have been published.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/New-images-of-Horgans-Quay-development-300-apartments-and-a-120-bed-boutique-hotel-with-rooftop-bar--93da8d7a-0a4d-4d2f-be15-1eb6f0106c30-ds

I love the change in this area from run down dump to modern vibrent area. I think when this and Penrose is fully finished it will show the potential that Cork has to offer if all the other proposals come to pass.

hans aus dtschl

questionmark? wrote: »

I love the change in this area from run down dump to modern vibrent area. I think when this and Penrose is fully finished it will show the potential that Cork has to offer if all the other proposals come to pass.

I love that the area is being done up, but I'm not sure about this design: it looks like some kind of gated garden/compound.



Also, does anyone know if pedestrians will be routed AROUND these buildings to get to the quayside from the Train Station southern entrance? Would seem to be a massive missed opportunity if so, as there's potential to route people towards the centre of town partially indoors, while simultaneously getting better ground-floor retail footfall for the developer. I've seen it done in a myriad of countries, and it benefits the train station and the developer.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like they're purposefully creating a longer route to town for pedestrians, from the plan view?
https://www.horgansquay.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AreaMap.jpg

fonecrusher1

marno21 wrote: »

New renders of the new Horgans Quay incorporating the revised apartment plans have been published.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/New-images-of-Horgans-Quay-development-300-apartments-and-a-120-bed-boutique-hotel-with-rooftop-bar--93da8d7a-0a4d-4d2f-be15-1eb6f0106c30-ds

Looks great.

Incredible that any of this overall project met any sort of resistance. Its basically wasteland being turned into badly needed smart looking office / residential buildings.

Hopefully the approvals will be forthcoming for other derelict zones. The 25 floor proposal on the Sextant site would be a landmark decision. Fingers crossed.

hans aus dtschl

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Looks great.

Incredible that any of this overall project met any sort of resistance. Its basically wasteland being turned into badly needed smart looking office / residential buildings.

Hopefully the approvals will be forthcoming for other derelict zones. The 25 floor proposal on the Sextant site would be a landmark decision. Fingers crossed.

I fairness I don't think approvals are a big issue at the moment, at least.
Almost everything of scale and density and without parking is being approved. Which is pretty positive. But I'd like a bit more joined-up thinking with regards the train station because the biggest complaint I hear from people is "it's so far from the centre of town". Which it's not IMO, but it'd be lovely to have a kind of Berlin Alexanderplatz/
Frankfurt Hauptwache/Konstablerwache /Amsterdam Centraal/ etc setupn, where people were able to do basic grocery and food on their journey between the railside and the centre of town.

Shedite27

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I fairness I don't think approvals are a big issue at the moment, at least.
Almost everything of scale and density and without parking is being approved. Which is pretty positive. But I'd like a bit more joined-up thinking with regards the train station because the biggest complaint I hear from people is "it's so far from the centre of town". Which it's not IMO, but it'd be lovely to have a kind of Berlin Alexanderplatz/
Frankfurt Hauptwache/Konstablerwache /Amsterdam Centraal/ etc setupn, where people were able to do basic grocery and food on their journey between the railside and the centre of town.

Yeah if there's a few stores around the new developments, that will become the start of the train station (corner of Penrose Quay and Railway Street), which will feel a lot closer than going up and over the rail to the other side. Would be great if they could bring more of the train station to the south side over time (even just a real-time arrivals/departure board and a ticket collection machine)

questionmark?

Shedite27 wrote: »

Yeah if there's a few stores around the new developments, that will become the start of the train station (corner of Penrose Quay and Railway Street), which will feel a lot closer than going up and over the rail to the other side. Would be great if they could bring more of the train station to the south side over time (even just a real-time arrivals/departure board and a ticket collection machine)

Is the south side not where the rear entrance already is that has all those things which comes out basically at entrance to the new hotel? Or do you mean a third entrance?

who_me

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I love that the area is being done up, but I'm not sure about this design: it looks like some kind of gated garden/compound.



Also, does anyone know if pedestrians will be routed AROUND these buildings to get to the quayside from the Train Station southern entrance? Would seem to be a massive missed opportunity if so, as there's potential to route people towards the centre of town partially indoors, while simultaneously getting better ground-floor retail footfall for the developer. I've seen it done in a myriad of countries, and it benefits the train station and the developer.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like they're purposefully creating a longer route to town for pedestrians, from the plan view?
https://www.horgansquay.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AreaMap.jpg

Yeah, there is a gap between the residential and office blocks which pedestrians will be able to use; though to be honest using Railway St. probably isn't really massively longer. Bear in mind too, there's a slight bend in the river/quayside at this point, so it might be quicker to head down along Alfred and McCurtain Streets instead of along the quay.

I believe retail units are planned/included, though in my experience ground-floor retail in standalone office blocks don't always work well; I think a higher density of retail units (high street / mall) work better.

hans aus dtschl

questionmark? wrote: »

Is the south side not where the rear entrance already is that has all those things which comes out basically at entrance to the new hotel? Or do you mean a third entrance?

Yes we're talking about that entrance and trying to cover people and sell to them between there and the quayside if possible.

who_me

I actually think cafes / bars would work really well there. As a place to hang out while waiting for the train, or as a first/last stop when going to/coming from a game, it'd be ideal.

hans aus dtschl

who_me wrote: »

I actually think cafes / bars would work really well there. As a place to hang out while waiting for the train, or as a first/last stop when going to/coming from a game, it'd be ideal.

This is exactly what they have in a lot of the places I mentioned, as well as light groceries (Tesco Express/Spar/Centra/Etc). It makes the whole place feel "closer to town".
Some continental train stations also have full supermarkets but that's another level entirely.

opus

Got a tour of the new UCC student hub today, staff are moving in there this w/end & it will open in early Jan.

snotboogie

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/159640/0/0?returnUrl=&b=

Tender out for the new UCC dental building

namloc1980

Marina Park delayed

More delays for Marina Park. Not really surprising at this stage.

snotboogie

https://twitter.com/MeithealA/status/1206903039174627329?s=20

the beer revolu

snotboogie wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MeithealA/status/1206903039174627329?s=20

So, I take it, Eddie's Craic House isn't reopening??

Apogee

Irish Examiner wrote:

OCP are expected to commence construction on their final two blocks, C and D, of Navigation Square by mid-2020, adding 110,000 sq ft on the south quays to their current 240,0000 sq ft in blocks A and B, with anchor tenant, Clearstream, about to occupy a third floor, shortly.


Meanwhile, just confirmed as taking 28,000 sq ft at the Wilson Architecture-designed JCD Group’s 250,000 sq ft Penrose Dock, which will be anchored by Grant Thornton, is Flexi Workspace. It’s a new ‘landing pad’ offering from JCD that gives new arrival and upscaling companies the option of taking Grade A office space without signing a long-term lease, or investing upfront in a costly fit-out.


Taking 12,000 sq ft at penthouse level, Grant Thornton are to relocate from 14 South Mall, and Naturally Nourished, which has a presence at JCD’s City Gate in Mahon, will open a 2,500 sq ft cafe at ground level by a public plaza linking pedestrian routes from the city centre and MacCurtain Street to Kent rail station, alongside the new BAM/Clarendon HQ scheme on Horgan’s Quay.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/property/cork-office-demand-hots-up-equally-on-north-and-south-quays-971290.html

snotboogie

I'm not sure either of those announcements are particularly positive, Navigation Square hope to be at 50% occupancy by mid 2020 and JCD are doing an in house version of wework at Penrose Dock Or have I read that wrong?
good to know Navigation Square phases 3 and 4 will commence next year though because I have no idea what they are actually working on now

snotboogie

the beer revolu wrote: »

So, I take it, Eddie's Craic House isn't reopening??

Not in that spot anyway. I actually think that side of MacCurtain Street will be quiet enough next year while this hotel, White Rabbit and the Thompsons Brewery are all being worked on. The three will make a big impact when they are all up and running and the alley linking to the new bridge is fully open too.

hans aus dtschl

snotboogie wrote: »

I'm not sure either of those announcements are particularly positive, Navigation Square hope to be at 50% occupancy by mid 2020 and JCD are doing an in house version of wework at Penrose Dock Or have I read that wrong?
good to know Navigation Square phases 3 and 4 will commence next year though because I have no idea what they are actually working on now

Still a lot of offices and not a lot of housing going in. When will that begin to change, I wonder? At what pricepoint will housing become lucrative enough for them?

snotboogie

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Still a lot of offices and not a lot of housing going in. When will that begin to change, I wonder? At what pricepoint will housing become lucrative enough for them?

It's already happening. Horgans Quay Apartments will start early next year

marno21

From what I can see, there’s an impediment to companies opening offices in Cork by the residential situation. Not only is there a shortage of accommodation in general, but it’s the type of accommodation too.

The big residential developments in Cork (Ballinglanna/Douglas/Ballincollig etc) are great for families and first time buyers but not for young professionals wanting to live and work in the city.

The HQ apartments, Railway Gardens, AQ2 will be a good start with 620 apartments or so there. In reality, there needs to be a push to develop the Docklands starting at Albert Quay, but that’s going to require public investment to get going due to the serving required. In other words, don’t hold your breath for any movement soon

who_me

snotboogie wrote: »

It's already happening. Horgans Quay Apartments will start early next year

True, but the Horgan's Quay residential elements don't even provide enough units for those who'll work in Horgan's Quay - assuming it's eventually fully let - never mind the additional demand from Penrose Dock, Navigation Square (Penrose Quay, The Prism etc...)

I'm not knocking it, but the net effect on the residential situation in the city centre is a negative. We need residential-only developments, or developments that provide more residential capacity than office/retail; otherwise the situation is only getting worse.

Tomtom364

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2019/1220/1102440-ringaskiddy/

A good outcome for cork development's. Hopefully this can press ahead now. (Well at the usual snail pace of cork infrastructure)

Chris_5339762

I would hope so, but my gut says they'll appeal to the Supreme Court or Europe.

Markcheese

Is there a costs issue if they go on further with appeals ? If not the "steering group " may as well just appeal on ,as it'll just delay the project.

questionmark?

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I would hope so, but my gut says they'll appeal to the Supreme Court or Europe.

Good chance they will if they can gather the funds. In the interim the people have to put up with awful traffic, the economy suffers as the Port can't expand and the docks in Cork won't be freed up until the Port moves out reducing land banks available for housing. Go Steering group!!

bingo9999

Lets hope they balk at the prospect of throwing away all those legal costs and spare us all the time and hassle. As noted its a linchpin in Cork developments and needs to move the f on

the beer revolu

Does anyone have a list of politicians who have supported this steering group?

Italix

the beer revolu wrote: »

Does anyone have a list of politicians who have supported this steering group?

The only one I'm sure about is Jerry Buttimer.

AugustusMinimus

Green Party and especially Dan Boyle are anti M28. Not sure if they have supported the Steering Group though.